Hello all,

I would love if perhaps someone can shed light on the Bahai view on metaphysics, mysticism, and meditations. Are there any mystical paths to bahai? I dont mean an ascetic way of life where one goes to extremes. But I mean deep comunion with God through meditations and chants in which one can witness God in this life (not necessarily PHYSICALLY since God is beyond that limitation), but spiritually through the third eye or the minds eye? Are there specific types of meditations one can do and perhaps can one count some praises or chants of God on a rosary?

Can one work with Lucid dreaming (dreams in which you know your dreaming and you can explore the dream world and sometimes ask for guidance or meditate) could one use lucid dreaming to draw oneself closer to God?

Also since Bahais accept Buddha as a legitimate prophet is it okay to go to a buddhist temple for meditation and chanting?

Baha'u'llah revealed a book called The Seven valleys and the Four Valleys and it is online for you to peruse:

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/SVFV/

These books contain responses of Baha'u'llah to a Sufi sage while he was in Sulaymaniyah or Eastern Iraq and so contain metaphors on the spiritual search.

Baha'is do believe the Buddha was a Manifestation but we also believe the original teachings of the Buddha have been lost over time..

Since there is no set form of meditation in the Baha'i Faith we are free to explore meditation techniques used by Buddhists, Christians or Hindus, others and if they seem to be applicable to our spiritual life to avail ourselves of them..

Baha'u'llah has specified no procedures to be followed in meditation, and individual believers are free to do as they wish in this area, provided that they remain in harmony with the Teachings, but such activities are purely personal

- Art

I find that a time set aside for meditation is a healthy habit! I also enjoy visiting Buddhist Temples!:D

Does anyone want to share any other mystical teachings of the bahai faith?

There is a tablet to the True Seeker that outlines the prerequisites for a path of seeking truth:

When a true seeker determineth to take the step of search in the path leading unto the knowledge of the Ancient of Days, he must, before all else, cleanse his heart, which is the seat of the revelation of the inner mysteries of God, from the obscuring dust of all acquired knowledge, and the allusions of the embodiments of satanic fancy. He must purge his breast, which is the sanctuary of the abiding love of the Beloved, of every defilement, and sanctify his soul from all that pertaineth to water and clay, from all shadowy and ephemeral attachments. He must so cleanse his heart that no remnant of either love or hate may linger therein, lest that love blindly incline him to error, or that hate repel him away from the truth. Even as thou dost witness in this Day how most of the people, because of such love and hate, are bereft of the immortal Face, have strayed far from the Embodiments of the Divine mysteries, and, shepherdless, are roaming through the wilderness of oblivion and error.

That seeker must, at all times, put his trust in God, must renounce the peoples of the earth, must detach himself from the world of dust, and cleave unto Him Who is the Lord of Lords. He must never 265 seek to exalt himself above any one, must wash away from the tablet of his heart every trace of pride and vain-glory, must cling unto patience and resignation, observe silence and refrain from idle talk. For the tongue is a smoldering fire, and excess of speech a deadly poison. Material fire consumeth the body, whereas the fire of the tongue devoureth both heart and soul. The force of the former lasteth but for a time, whilst the effects of the latter endureth a century.

That seeker should, also, regard backbiting as grievous error, and keep himself aloof from its dominion, inasmuch as backbiting quencheth the light of the heart, and extinguisheth the life of the soul. He should be content with little, and be freed from all inordinate desire. He should treasure the companionship of them that have renounced the world, and regard avoidance of boastful and worldly people a precious benefit. At the dawn of every day he should commune with God, and, with all his soul, persevere in the quest of his Beloved. He should consume every wayward thought with the flame of His loving mention, and, with the swiftness of lightning, pass by all else save Him. He should succor the dispossessed, and never withhold his favor from the destitute. He should show kindness to animals, how much more unto his fellow-man, to him who is endowed with the power of utterance. He should not hesitate to offer up his life for his Beloved, nor allow the censure of the people to turn him away from the Truth. He should not wish for others that which he doth not wish for himself, nor promise that which he doth not fulfil. With all his heart he should avoid fellowship with evil-doers, and pray for the remission of their sins. He should forgive the sinful, and never despise his low estate, for none knoweth what his own end shall be. How often hath a sinner attained, at the hour of death, to the essence of faith, and, quaffing the immortal draught, hath taken his flight unto the Concourse on high! And how often hath a devout believer, at the hour of his soul's ascension, been so changed as to fall into the nethermost fire!

Our purpose in revealing these convincing and weighty utterances is to impress upon the seeker that he should regard all else beside God as transient, and count all things save Him, Who is the Object of all adoration, as utter nothingness.

These are among the attributes of the exalted, and constitute the hall-mark of the spiritually-minded. They have already been mentioned in connection with the requirements of the wayfarers that tread the path of Positive Knowledge. When the detached wayfarer and sincere seeker hath fulfilled these essential conditions, then and only then can he be called a true seeker. Whensoever he hath fulfilled the conditions implied in the verse: "Whoso maketh efforts for Us," he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: "In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him."

Only when the lamp of search, of earnest striving, of longing desire, of passionate devotion, of fervid love, of rapture, and ecstasy, is kindled within the seeker's heart, and the breeze of His loving-kindness is wafted upon his soul, will the darkness of error be dispelled, the mists of doubts and misgivings be dissipated, and the lights of knowledge and certitude envelop his being. At that hour will the Mystic Herald, bearing the joyful tidings of the Spirit, shine forth from the City of God resplendent as the morn, and, through the trumpet-blast of knowledge, will awaken the heart, the soul, and the spirit from the slumber of heedlessness. Then will the manifold favors and outpouring grace of the holy and everlasting Spirit confer such new life upon the seeker that he will find himself endowed with a new eye, a new ear, a new heart, and a new mind. He will contemplate the manifest signs of the universe, and will penetrate the hidden mysteries of the soul. Gazing with the eye of God, he will perceive within every atom a door that leadeth him to the stations of absolute certitude. He will discover in all things the mysteries of Divine Revelation, and the evidences of an everlasting Manifestation.

I swear by God! Were he that treadeth the path of guidance and seeketh to scale the heights of righteousness to attain unto this glorious and exalted station, he would inhale, at a distance of a thousand leagues, the fragrance of God, and would perceive the resplendent morn of a Divine guidance rising above the Day Spring of all things. Each and every thing, however small, would be to him a revelation, leading him to his Beloved, the Object of his quest. So great shall be the discernment of this seeker that he will discriminate between truth and falsehood, even as he doth distinguish the sun from shadow. If in the uttermost corners of the East the sweet savors of God be wafted, he will assuredly recognize and inhale their fragrance, even though he be dwelling in the uttermost ends of the West. He will, likewise, clearly distinguish all the signs of God -- His wondrous utterances, His great works, and mighty deeds -- from the doings, the words and ways of men, even as the jeweler who knoweth the gem from the stone, or the man who distinguisheth the spring from autumn, and heat from cold. When the channel of the human soul is cleansed of all worldly and impeding attachments, it will unfailingly perceive the breath of the Beloved across immeasurable distances, and will, led by its perfume, attain and enter the City of Certitude.

Therein he will discern the wonders of His ancient Wisdom, and will perceive all the hidden teachings from the rustling leaves of the Tree that flourisheth in that City. With both his inner and outer ear, he will hear from its dust the hymns of glory and praise ascending unto the Lord of Lords, and with his inner eye will he discover the mysteries of "return" and "revival."

How unspeakably glorious are the signs, the tokens, the revelations, and splendors which He, Who is the King of Names and Attributes, hath destined for that City! The attainment unto this City quencheth thirst without water, and kindleth the love of God without fire. Within every blade of grass are enshrined the mysteries of an inscrutable Wisdom, and upon every rose-bush a myriad nightingales pour out, in blissful rapture, their melody. Its wondrous tulips unfold the mystery of the undying Fire in the Burning Bush, and its sweet savors of holiness breathe the perfume of the Messianic Spirit. It bestoweth wealth without gold, and conferreth immortality without death. In each one of its leaves ineffable delights are treasured, and within every chamber unnumbered mysteries lie hidden.

They that valiantly labor in quest of God, will, when once they have renounced all else but Him, be so attached and wedded unto that City, that a moment's separation from it would to them be unthinkable. They will hearken unto infallible proofs from the Hyacinth of that assembly, and will receive the surest testimonies from the beauty of its Rose, and the melody of its Nightingale. Once in about a thousand years shall this City be renewed and readorned....

~ Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 264

Firstly I have to say if I dont believe Baha'ullah is a prophet then surely I believe him to be an upright man with wisdom embedded deep in his heart.

Secondly, this reveals to me that I am not truely a seeker yet.

Thirdly, It seems that in the Bahai faith one can truely reach stillness and a deep peace. The same peace that some of the buddhist experience.


Does the bahai Faith encourage being in the present moment?

And lastly, thank you for sharing the beautiful passage!

I will have to get that book btw.

Seeker wrote:

Does the bahai Faith encourage being in the present moment?

And lastly, thank you for sharing the beautiful passage!


My reply:

There's nothing in the Baha'i Faith that would discourage someone from using meditative techniques from various sources..

Meditation is the key for opening the doors of mysteries. In that state man abstracts himself: in that state man withdraws himself from all outside objects; in that subjective mood he is immersed in the ocean of spiritual life and can unfold the secrets of things-in-themselves.

~ Abdul-Baha

There are no set forms of meditation prescribed in the teachings, no plan, as such, for inner development. The friends are urged--nay enjoined--to pray, and they also should meditate, but the manner of doing the latter is left entirely to the individual. The inspiration received through meditation is of a nature that one cannot measure or determine. God can inspire into our minds things that we had no previous knowledge of, if He desires to do so.

~ Shoghi Effendi

(25 January 1943 to the believers)

Thank you for the beautiful response. I just wonder if Bahais have ever experienced complete stillness that Buddhist have experienced.

Thank you for the beautiful response. I just wonder if Bahais have ever experienced complete stillness that Buddhist have experienced.

I believe so yes..also there have been many Buddhists in South East Asia and in Mongolia who have come to accept Baha'u'llah as the expected Maitreya Buddha and have therefore found great peace...

- Art

I see, do you know where I could read some stories of buddhist accepting the bahai faith?

I see, do you know where I could read some stories of buddhist accepting the bahai faith?


I don't know of any stories in print off hand except I knew a Chinese Buddhist who became a Baha'i in Singapore some years ago.. Tek sing was his name and he is a devoted Baha'i. He gave programs comparing various religions.

The wife of one of the better known Chinese Buddhist translators Daisetzu Suzuki became a Baha'i.

Here's an article though about Buddhism and the Baha'i faith that you may find interesting:

Encyclopedia Article: Buddhism and the Baha'i Faith (http://bahai-library.com/encyclopedia/buddhism.html)

Away back in 1991 the Baha'is were the only non-Buddhist group invited to attend an international Buddhist Conference.. the appearance of a representative of the Bahá'í International Community as the only non-Buddhist speaker invited to address a public meeting held in conjunction with the Asian Buddhist Conference for Peace in Mongolia.

Today there are NSA's (National Spirtual Assemblies) in Burma, Cambodia, Korea, Mongolia, Sri Lanka. Taiwan as well as Vietnam. During the Vietnam War the Baha'i Faith began to be known in Indo China and many Mung tribesmen became Baha'is.. Near the end of the war many of them came to the US to live and are still active in the Amercian Baha'i Community.

I suppose someday soon there will be some more artciles about Baha'is who came from Buddhist backgrounds.

- Art:)

Thank you for the read. Also if i choose to become bahai can I still work with Astral projection? There is nothing "evil" involved. Its just focusing on the energy in my body and then exiting the body and travel astral planes.

Thank you for the read. Also if i choose to become bahai can I still work with Astral projection? There is nothing "evil" involved. Its just focusing on the energy in my body and then exiting the body and travel astral planes.

Well you can choose to do a lot of things ..

First though I think if or when you decide to be a Baha'i it will begin to have an impact on how you see things and relate to others..

While we acknowledge that there is a spiritual world, we don't place a great deal of emphasis on it as we believe there are very important tasks for us here on this earth..working with each to build the foundations for world peace and overcoming prejudices.. In this life our task is we believe reflecting the attributes of God.

- Art:wink

Thank you for the read. Also if i choose to become bahai can I still work with Astral projection? There is nothing "evil" involved. Its just focusing on the energy in my body and then exiting the body and travel astral planes.

There is nothing explicitly wrong with practicing astral projection. Some Baha'is may find it to be uncomfortable or immoral and choose not to practice or explore it for that reason, but it is certainly not explicitly prohibited. On things like this you will see a great deal of variety in the Baha'i community.

Baha'is practice a daily ritual based on Sufi Muslim dhikr, which as I understand it is a form of no-mind or concentration meditation. We wash our face and hands, and face the Qibla, and recite the Arabic phrase 'Alláh-u-abhá' 95 times. Generally this is pretty difficult and even tedious for me, but I have had some basic hypnagogic trance states, and I think I want to experiment a bit more with that.

Other forms of meditation should be used as we find them to be beneficial. Same with any mystical practices.

Abdu'l-Baha does seem to place an emphasis on no-mind meditation (though mindfulness meditation is hinted at variously in Shoghi Effendi's writings):

"Meditation is the key for opening the doors of mysteries to your mind. In that state man abstracts himself: in that state man withdraws himself from all outside objects; in that subjective mood he is immersed in the ocean of spiritual life and can unfold the secrets of things-in-themselves." - `Abdu'l-Baha

You also asked about Lucid Dreaming. Lucid Dreaming is a sister-state to hypnagogia, which I have a tiny bit of experience with. I have chosen not to explore lucid dreaming, because I have a fear of altered states of consciousness and it seems to me to be possibly psychologically damaging. You may of course hold a different opinion.

One thing to keep in mind with all these things is that altered neurological or psychological states are not necessarily more spiritual than normal states. In Tibetan Buddhism they do not encourage novices to meditate too much out of fear that meditation will only further their ignorance, first they need to gain a bit of knowledge and wisdom. I think the fact that meditation in the Baha'i Faith is meant to be prayerful emphasizes the fact that neurological openness alone is not connected to divinity, but when neurological and spiritual openness are combined, we can commune more closely with divinity.

The fact that the 95 Allah-u-abhas are sort of a mix between no-mind meditation and invocation really drives that home for me.

All just conjecture on my part though :)

Hello RuhiWarrior19,

Thank you for your response.

Baha'is practice a daily ritual based on Sufi Muslim dhikr, which as I understand it is a form of no-mind or concentration meditation. We wash our face and hands, and face the Qibla, and recite the Arabic phrase 'Alláh-u-abhá' 95 times. Generally this is pretty difficult and even tedious for me, but I have had some basic hypnagogic trance states, and I think I want to experiment a bit more with that.

Yes this seems very similar to Sufi Dhikr. Im sure this would have a great calming affect on the one who recites it with a clear mind. It is similar to a mantra. I am not bahai yet so im not sure if i should recite it but i wouldnt mind experimenting with it.

Other forms of meditation should be used as we find them to be beneficial. Same with any mystical practices.

Abdu'l-Baha does seem to place an emphasis on no-mind meditation (though mindfulness meditation is hinted at variously in Shoghi Effendi's writings):

"Meditation is the key for opening the doors of mysteries to your mind. In that state man abstracts himself: in that state man withdraws himself from all outside objects; in that subjective mood he is immersed in the ocean of spiritual life and can unfold the secrets of things-in-themselves." - `Abdu'l-Baha

This is very encouraging, because as of right now I am DEEPLY attracted to Buddhism. I meditate daily using basic shamatha practice. Such as breathing in I say silently Here and breathing out silently say now. Also I do buddhist chanting in the morning.

I wouldnt mind also meditating on Bahai teachings.

You also asked about Lucid Dreaming. Lucid Dreaming is a sister-state to hypnagogia, which I have a tiny bit of experience with. I have chosen not to explore lucid dreaming, because I have a fear of altered states of consciousness and it seems to me to be possibly psychologically damaging. You may of course hold a different opinion.

I see. I find Lucid Dreaming to bring about much wisdom. There is much to learn from beings you meet in dreams. I have a belief that some of the beings we meet in lucid dreaming are beings in the next world. There are many stories that comfort me in this way of thinking. The Tibetans also use dream yoga (lucid dreaming) as a way to realize enlightenment. Shamanic teachings emphasize dream world and its realities concerning other dimensions and beings who have passed on.


I must say though I was reading a work called "A Gift of Prayers and Selected Bahai Writings" and it is filled with deep prayers. It brings about tranqulity in my mind.

Thank you kindly for your response

-Juan

On this subject I'm reminded of the following guidance:

"What 'Abdu'l-Bahá always pointed out in this matter is that these psychic powers were not to be used in this world, and that, indeed, it was dangerous to cultivate them here. They should be left dormant, and not exploited, even when we do so with the sincere belief we are helping others. We do not understand their nature and have no way of being sure of what is true and what is false in such matters....

(From a letter written on behalf of the Guardian to an individual believer, March 4, 1946 Ibid, p. 1)

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 513)



Development of Psychic Faculties Weakens Spiritual Capacities

"The Guardian would suggest that you study very carefully the statement of 'Abdu'l-Bahá in connection with the question of visions, dreams, etc., as 'Abdu'l-Bahá has very fully explained this delicate subject. You will find references to this in 'Bahá'u'lláh and the New Era,' 'Some Answered Questions' and the Books of Tablets. The Guardian likewise has commented on this matter

"Briefly, there is no question that visions occasionally do come to individuals, which are true and have significance. On the other hand, this comes to an individual through the grace of God, and not through the exercise of any of the human faculties. It is not a thing which a person should try to develop.

When a person endeavors to develop faculties so that they might enjoy visions, dreams etc., actually what they are doing is weakening certain of their spiritual capacities; and thus under such circumstances, dreams and visions have no reality, and ultimately lead to the destruction of the character of the person."

(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi, dated May 6, 1952, to an individual believer, Ibid, p. 4) *516*

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 515)

I see. I find Lucid Dreaming to bring about much wisdom. There is much to learn from beings you meet in dreams. I have a belief that some of the beings we meet in lucid dreaming are beings in the next world. There are many stories that comfort me in this way of thinking. The Tibetans also use dream yoga (lucid dreaming) as a way to realize enlightenment. Shamanic teachings emphasize dream world and its realities concerning other dimensions and beings who have passed on.
I think those are certainly legitimate reasons to use lucid dreaming, and in fact reasons why we ought to be aware of the content and meaning of our real dreams. `Abdu'l-Baha has a lot to say about dreaming, and in fact an untranslated prayer exists from Baha'u'llah in which the believer asks God for inspiration while sleeping, as does another where the believer thanks God for revelation in sleep (see the Lieden List (http://www.bahai-library.org/resources/leiden.list/)).

Dream interpretation and the acknowledgment of personal revelations through dreams was central to Shia Islam, and the Baha'i Faith did not abrogate this. There are many such revelations prominent among early Baha'is and `Abdu'l-Baha engaged in interpretation of dreams on multiple occasions.

My concern about Lucid Dreaming is that it may interfere with the purposes of dreaming. Modern science thinks dreams may be a method by which the subconscious solves problems the conscious cannot handle. `Abdu'l-Baha says:

In the same way, how many times it happens that a question which one cannot solve in the world of wakefulness is solved in the world of dreams. In wakefulness the eye sees only for a short distance, but in dreams he who is in the East sees the West. Awake he sees the present; in sleep he sees the future. In wakefulness, by means of rapid transit, at the most he can travel only twenty farsakhs an hour; in sleep, in the twinkling of an eye, he traverses the East and West. For the spirit travels in two different ways: without means, which is spiritual traveling; and with means, which is material traveling: as birds which fly, and those which are carried.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 227)

I have an innate fear of messing with the natural workings of my mind in any way, and in all honesty all meditation and mysticism is slightly scary for me. I am the child of an epileptic and a schizophrenic, so I am very happy to have my mind work simply. The same reason I have never tried any alcohol or mind altering substance beyond caffiene is why I think I can't even attempt lucid dreaming.

---

Arthra,

Some of that seems to be pointing to things completely different than mysticism. Psychic powers and mysticism are miles apart. Baha'u'llah spent 2 years in the mountains of Kurdistan with Sufis, and remained associated with the Sufis for life. Many exercises He has mad obligatory or encouraged involve mysticism that to many westerners might almost seem psychic-like. 95 Allah-u-abhas for example. Not saying that is what you mean, but I don't know that the psychic powers in those quotes are too directly connected.

"When a person endeavors to develop faculties so that they might enjoy visions, dreams etc., actually what they are doing is weakening certain of their spiritual capacities; and thus under such circumstances, dreams and visions have no reality, and ultimately lead to the destruction of the character of the person."

That is very interesting and important, especially since wording implies the Guardian is not just giving advice, but interpreting the statements of the Master. Thanks for that. I had seen the first quote but not this one. I want to study this subject more now :)

You can call me "Art".. :D

I think the first thing though we need to do is represent what the Faith teaches or emphasizes and for sure I think you'll agree that if you've attended many Baha'i meetings you will not fiind many topics related to Astral projection..

I wouldn't want spiritual seeker to get the mistaken notion that we emphasize developing psychic powers..

- Art

You are 100% right Art, our faith does not emphasize things like Astral Projection, nor do we agree with the pursuit of psychic powers. While I don't know enough about Astral Projection to know if it is a psychic exercise, it certainly isn't something I have seen too many Baha'is interested in.

What is sort of interesting is that the mysticism predicted for the Faith in Baha'u'llah's writings is not largely applied yet. For example He predicts morning chanting prayers in the Mashriqu'l-Adhkar, which is in and of itself a mystical institution. Making the Mashriqu'l-Adhkar our place of worship rather than something more like a Mosque was a nod to Sufi tradition as I understand it. Or one tablet of His encourages a midnight vigil for the so inclined on the Anniversary of the Birth of the Bab. I don't mean that ours is a Faith just for mystics, but that is seems to have a place in it for all types of approaches to the faith. Today, in the infant form our community is in tends to have more place for people like me, who have trouble with mysticism, but our faith community is so barely begun :)

Thanks Ruhi warrior for your posts! and Allah'u'Abha!

- Art:cool

May I just reccomend a book - "Meditation" by Wendy Momen, a Bahá'í

Some years ago I developed an interest in meditation and realised that there are references all over the Bahá'í writings to meditation that I had not noticed. What I could not find was clear instructions or suggestions on how to meditate. I wondered if this was because we have so much wisdom on meditation already from previous manifestations that, past reminding us that it was a good thing, it was not necessary to elaborate.

Pollywr

Pollwr:

Thanks for your post and welcome to the Forum!

Pollwr wrote:

What I could not find was clear instructions or suggestions on how to meditate. I wondered if this was because we have so much wisdom on meditation already from previous manifestations that, past reminding us that it was a good thing, it was not necessary to elaborate.

I'm sure there's a wisdom in it because people will come from many meditative traditions and since we Baha'is are not bound to any one form or process of meditation.. They can all be considerd by the friends in the future..

The World Centre has gardens and various items from all over the world and part of this is so people from various traditions will feel more at home.

For my own personal meditation I sit in a half lotus when reciting the Greatest Name.. and I count the Allah'u'Abha's on the fingers on my left hand (two rounds on my index finger and one round each on the other fingers) ...all my fingers/thumb/jounts and tips to keep count of the nineteen recitations on my right hand.

At the end of the recitation of the ninety five Allah'u'Abhas my fingers are actually in a mudra where the thumb is touching the pinky finger of each hand and then I sit for awhile in this pose before getting up.

The following Compilation on Dreams and Visualizations may be of interest:
Compilation on Dreams and Visualizations (v5).doc (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?5yu013mlm4n)

If I meditate seeking a metaphysical result, my attachment to that end tends to cause what was purposed to elude me. However, when a Divine Text or purpose is the meditative object, "Ah Ha" moments, which can include metaphysical experiences, spontaneousness occur.

Best wishes,

Jon