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Old 12-08-2017, 01:38 AM   #1
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Anarchism

Hello, I am a Bahai who is interested in politics. I understand Bahai's do not get involved in party politics and I understand why. But we seem scared of "talking politics" per se. I am interested in anarchism, not as a political party, which it definitely is not, but as a philosophy which I believe it is.
It seems to compliment many of the teachings of the Faith I.e. Egalitarianism, valuing craft (production) and consultation. Any views/thoughts?
 
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Old 12-08-2017, 06:10 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herefordrob View Post
Hello, I am a Bahai who is interested in politics.
Oh hey, me too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herefordrob View Post
I understand Bahai's do not get involved in party politics and I understand why. But we seem scared of "talking politics" per se.
Yeah. I developed that tendency long before becoming a Baha'i. Living in a country where my political views don't align with either major party has shown me the tribalism of politics these days firsthand. One would think that one would be viewed as a neutral third party, but nope, both sides view you as the enemy if your political views don't line up nicely with one party or the other.

So rather than make an enemy of everyone around me I stopped talking politics except in terms of generality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herefordrob View Post
I am interested in anarchism, not as a political party, which it definitely is not, but as a philosophy which I believe it is.
It seems to compliment many of the teachings of the Faith I.e. Egalitarianism, valuing craft (production) and consultation. Any views/thoughts?
Well... as I am knowledgeable on political philosophies in order to have that discussion I'd need to know a central question: What type of anarchism are you talking about??

Are you talking about the philosophy of Anarcho-Capitalism, which is essentially an extreme extension of non-violence philosophy, or Anarcho-Communism, which is essentially an extreme extension of socialist philosophy, or one of the many other forms of Anarchism out there??

Because when discussing the philosophy of the many different political theories of "anarchism", I've found it actually quite diverse. The different schools of thought under that same umbrella term "anarchism" all come to the conclusion of statelessness through wildly different philosophical starting points.
 
Old 12-08-2017, 11:22 AM   #3
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Hello Walrus,I am definitely not an expert but have been reading a little about anarcho syndicalism. I understand it to be related to socialism not communism.
According to some anarchist commentators on the Spanish civil war, it was actually betrayed by the Bolsheviks using their own brand of communism.
Would you say then the Spanish civil war was idealistic and was lost due to differing ideas which were clearly related?
 
Old 12-08-2017, 11:36 AM   #4
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Walrus
Talking politics in general is difficult I find as people tend to use labels anyway. These often put views and individuals in boxes which seems unfair and often untrue.
 
Old 12-08-2017, 01:22 PM   #5
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Would you say then the Spanish civil war was idealistic and was lost due to differing ideas which were clearly related?
I can't say I sympathize a lot with Spanish Civil War's anarchists... the movement, with whatever ideals they may have started with, became quite unfortunately violent and oppressive, almost ironically so, towards the people they sought to liberate. Believing in God or simply having money, in the later stages of that movement, could earn you a death sentence in those societies.

The philosophy behind the Anarcho-Syndicalists I find interesting (well that may not be a fair comment, I find most philosophical strains interesting and love to investigate such things).

From what I understand, the basic idea is that you get people to band together in voluntary labor unions to pool their labor force and establish a balance in industry in favor of the workers.

The thing I find most interesting in the philosophy is that, at least in theory, it seeks to achieve its own ends through peaceable means within an existing government-run community. It seems to be an extension of labor unions to the extent it envisions, one day, a society essentially run by unions. Trying to enact the philosophy would be as simple as starting up a union and using that union to leverage more favorable conditions, eventually bringing about an employee-owned business.

The only fault I have for the philosophy is a similar problem in employee-owned workplaces in general, that it somewhat overlooks the idea of capital investment. Most businesses do not earn a profit for their first years in business, so to start up an employee owned workplace you'd need to get all the employees to invest their own money into it, potentially causing everyone to feel the effects of loss should that fail.

But it would be an interesting idea to see people try, as long as it doesn't go the way of the Spanish Civil War and start using force and violence to try to force its vision of society into reality. The basic philosophy indicates the ideal is to bring about it in a voluntary manner, if it strays too far from that vision it, like many philosophical systems, could cause problems.
 
Old 12-08-2017, 01:55 PM   #6
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Walrus,
That statelessness as a goal is what I find interesting. Especially in terms of civilisation developing past nationhood to global citizenship. Which a key Bahai principle and part of the work being done by the community.
At the risk of sounding derogatory, which is not my aim. The community seems to have lost as a focus due to the way the Ruhi Institute seems to be working. I struggle to see how it will build a new civilisation The House often refers to of late.
Though going back to syndicalism specifically it does seem to be a trade union movement it is difficult to see how it would recognise individual craft workers.it seems to me they would be forced to conform. Therefore creativity would be stifled maybe.
 
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