should women sit on UHJ - Page 2

cire perdue · 10-28-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sen McGlinn

There's a tablet on this question on my blog, at
The ‘Paris Talks’ tablet on women « Sen McGlinn's blog

It's somewhat ambiguous.

The Aqdas refers to the "men of justice", using the term rijal, men. But Baha'u'llah has stated that women in His Cause are all to be accorded the same station as men - and He has used the term rijal to make this point. For example, He writes:

Today the Baha'i women (lit., the leaves of the Holy Tree) must guide the handmaidens of the earth to the Lofty Horizon with the utmost purity and sanctity. Today the handmaidens of God are regarded as gentlemen (rijal).

And :

Today whoever among the handmaidens attains the knowledge of the Desire of the World [i.e., Baha'u'llah] is considered a gentleman (rajul) in the Divine Book.

And :

...many a man (rajul) hath waited expectant for God's Revelation, and yet when the Light shone forth from the horizon of the world, all but a few turned their faces away from it. Whosoever from amongst the handmaidens hath recognized the Lord of all Names is recorded in the Book as one of those men (rijal) by the Pen of the Most High.

Likewise, 'Abdu'l-Baha in one of his Tablets has made the same point:

Verily, according to Baha'u'llah, women are judged as gentlemen (rijal).

The quotes are translated and sourced in "the Service of Women" at
The Service of Women on the Institutions of the Baha'i Faith

However there are also pilgrims' notes from Ali Kuli Khan which were apparently checked by Abdu'l-Baha and are unambiguous, that women cannot serve on the Universal House of Justice.
Unfortunately I can't locate them now, and it's bed time

Sen, What would happen if you won your agrument ? What is the point of trying to establish your authority which you deny you are doing. Merely denying that you are not an authority is proof that you are not aware of your effect on others, and that saying that you are not an authority does not mean it is true. It saddens me that such a good mind could not develop a heart as deep, but I think I see your attachment to the Faith to represent a desire to do that. I love you, but I do not like what you do. WHAT is the point of being right? Refusing to be wrong put you in this position which you justify and rationalize rather than accepting and correcting. Are you going to spend the rest of your life on the outside looking in once you shut the door. It is highly unlikely you can't change, Baha'is do the impossible.

LordOfGoblins · 10-29-2011, 02:24 AM

Glad to have you back CP.

aidan · 10-29-2011, 11:55 AM

you were missed dearest friend

jupitermadcat · 02-05-2012, 05:02 AM

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.
But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
~Buddha

cire perdue · 02-05-2012, 06:37 AM

Then how does one come to believe anything? There is a time to question which is mostly if not entirely an intellectual process, but the heart must also answer, and one must dearly hope that the heart's voice will be heard, for is it not the heart who tells us of love, of those who love us, and the one that will fill our life, and the One who will uplift our soul? Must one continue to ask with answers already there. Surely one who does not cease questions will find no rest.

arthra · 02-05-2012, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jupitermadcat

"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many.
Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books.
Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders.
Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations.
But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it."
~Buddha

There is a parallel to the teaching ascribed to the Buddha, the Baha'i principle we call the independent investigation of reality or truth...

Among these teachings was the independent investigation of reality so that the world of humanity may be saved from the darkness of imitation and attain to the truth; may tear off and cast away this ragged and outgrown garment of 1,000 years ago and may put on the robe woven in the utmost purity and holiness in the loom of reality.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 285)

Discover for yourselves the reality of things, and strive to assimilate the methods by which noble-mindedness and glory are attained among the nations and people of the world.

No man should follow blindly his ancestors and forefathers. Nay, each must see with his own eyes, hear with his own ears and investigate independently in order that he may find the truth. The religion of forefathers and ancestors is based upon blind imitation. Man should investigate reality.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Divine Philosophy, p. 24)

He must not rely implicitly upon the opinion of any man without investigation; nay, each soul must seek intelligently and independently, arriving at a real conclusion and bound only by that reality.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 73)

BlinkeyBill · 03-28-2012, 05:36 PM

Dear friends in my humble understanding the soul has no sex. It is why we are told that men and women are equal.

I sometimes wonder as friends here are concerning the future as our faith is embryonic, so it will change as its growth progresses.
I often wonder what will the test be for the future generations with the coming of the next manifestation, maybe He will be a woman?
Peace and love to all our Baha'i sisters.

tonyfish58 · 03-29-2012, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill

Dear friends in my humble understanding the soul has no sex. It is why we are told that men and women are equal.

I sometimes wonder as friends here are concerning the future as our faith is embryonic, so it will change as its growth progresses.
I often wonder what will the test be for the future generations with the coming of the next manifestation, maybe He will be a woman?
Peace and love to all our Baha'i sisters.

All valid points to consider.

We know the answer to this question will be apparent in the future, how long in the future?

Regards Tony

Orthodox · 03-29-2012, 03:01 PM

UHJ sounds like a priesthood every time I hear more and more about it.

arthra · 03-29-2012, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orthodox

UHJ sounds like a priesthood every time I hear more and more about it.

The Universal House of Justcie has no socerdotal functions and rituals in the Baha'i Faith do not require priests or Mullahs. It's an administrative body that's elected by National Spiirtual Assemblies around the world every five years. The House of Justice deals with issues that are not included in the Writings themselves...

"It is incumbent upon the Trustees of the House of Justice to take counsel together regarding those things which have not outwardly been revealed in the Book"

- Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 68

also, by themselves the members that serve on the House of Justice have no power or authority over the friends...only as a body does the Instution have any weight.

02-05-2012, 06:37 AM	#45
cire perdue Senior Member Joined: Sep 2010 From: Louisiana Posts: 1,601	"...do not believe...." Then how does one come to believe anything? There is a time to question which is mostly if not entirely an intellectual process, but the heart must also answer, and one must dearly hope that the heart's voice will be heard, for is it not the heart who tells us of love, of those who love us, and the one that will fill our life, and the One who will uplift our soul? Must one continue to ask with answers already there. Surely one who does not cease questions will find no rest.

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10-29-2011, 02:24 AM	#42
LordOfGoblins Senior Member Joined: Dec 2010 From: Australia Posts: 1,316	Glad to have you back CP.

10-29-2011, 11:55 AM	#43
aidan Senior Member Joined: Jul 2011 From: n ireland Posts: 413	you were missed dearest friend

02-05-2012, 05:02 AM	#44
jupitermadcat Member Joined: Jun 2009 From: Florida Posts: 41	"Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it." ~Buddha

03-28-2012, 05:36 PM	#47
BlinkeyBill Junior Member Joined: Oct 2011 From: Santiago,Chile Posts: 29	Dear friends in my humble understanding the soul has no sex. It is why we are told that men and women are equal. I sometimes wonder as friends here are concerning the future as our faith is embryonic, so it will change as its growth progresses. I often wonder what will the test be for the future generations with the coming of the next manifestation, maybe He will be a woman? Peace and love to all our Baha'i sisters.

03-29-2012, 03:01 PM	#49
Orthodox Dedicated to Orthodoxy Joined: Sep 2010 From: New Zealand Posts: 1,302	UHJ sounds like a priesthood every time I hear more and more about it.