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SoldierofAllah97 06-18-2014 07:58 PM

Personal Favorite messenger?
 
Does anyone have a favorite messenger of God they would like to share? Or would it be considered forbidden

dale ramsdell 06-18-2014 09:58 PM

Prophets
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SoldierofAllah97 (Post 53675)
Does anyone have a favorite messenger of God they would like to share? Or would it be considered forbidden


I know that you don't mean to compare One to Another of them, but this verse comes to mind, so hope it might be relevant:


. "The songs which the bird of thine heart had uttered in its great love for its friends have reached their ears, and moved Me to answer thy questions, and reveal to thee such secrets as I am allowed to unfold. In thine esteemed letter thou hadst inquired which of the Prophets of God should be regarded as superior to others. Know thou assuredly that the essence of all the Prophets of God is one and the same. Their unity is absolute. God, the Creator, saith: There is no distinction whatsoever among the Bearers of My Message. They all have but one purpose; their secret is the same secret. To prefer one in honor to another, to exalt certain ones above the rest, is in no wise to be permitted. Every true Prophet hath regarded His Message as fundamentally the same as the Revelation of every other Prophet gone before Him. If any man, therefore, should fail to comprehend this truth, and should consequently indulge in vain and unseemly language, no one whose sight is keen and whose understanding is enlightened would ever allow such idle talk to cause him to waver in his belief.

. "The measure of the revelation of the Prophets of God in this world, however, must differ. Each and every one of them hath been the Bearer of a distinct Message, and hath been commissioned to reveal Himself through specific acts. It is for this reason that they appear to vary in their greatness. Their Revelation may be likened unto the light of the moon that sheddeth its radiance upon the earth. Though every time it appeareth, it revealeth a fresh measure of its brightness, yet its inherent splendor can never diminish, nor can its light suffer extinction.

. It is clear and evident, therefore, that any apparent variation in the intensity of their light is not inherent in the light itself, but should rather be attributed to the varying receptivity of an ever-changing world. Every Prophet Whom the Almighty and Peerless Creator hath purposed to send to the peoples of the earth hath been entrusted with a Message, and charged to act in a manner that would best meet the requirements of the age in which He appeared. God’s purpose in sending His Prophets unto men is twofold. The first is to liberate the children of men from the darkness of ignorance, and guide them to the light 80 of true understanding. The second is to ensure the peace and tranquillity of mankind, and provide all the means by which they can be established.

. The Prophets of God should be regarded as physicians whose task is to foster the well-being of the world and its peoples, that, through the spirit of oneness, they may heal the sickness of a divided humanity. To none is given the right to question their words or disparage their conduct, for they are the only ones who can claim to have understood the patient and to have correctly diagnosed its ailments. No man, however acute his perception, can ever hope to reach the heights which the wisdom and understanding of the Divine Physician have attained. Little wonder, then, if the treatment prescribed by the physician in this day should not be found to be identical with that which he prescribed before. How could it be otherwise when the ills affecting the sufferer necessitate at every stage of his sickness a special remedy?

. In like manner, every time the Prophets of God have illumined the world with the resplendent radiance of the Day Star of Divine knowledge, they have invariably summoned its peoples to embrace the light of God through such means as best befitted the exigencies of the age in which they appeared. They were thus able to scatter the darkness of ignorance, and to shed upon the world the glory of their own knowledge. It is towards the inmost essence of these Prophets, therefore, that the eye of every man of discernment must be directed, inasmuch as their one and only purpose hath always been to guide the erring, and give peace to the afflicted….

. These are not days of prosperity and triumph. The whole of mankind is in the grip of manifold ills. Strive, therefore, to save its life through the wholesome medicine which the almighty hand of the unerring Physician hath prepared.

Yusuf Mirza Ali 06-24-2014 12:21 AM

Probably the Buddha (PBUH) or Muhammad and Báb and Bahá'u'lláh (PBUT)

LogicalReason 06-24-2014 02:22 AM

Bahaullah is not a messenger. He sent the messengers.

In fact, Bahaullah sent the Quran to Muhammad.

aidan 06-24-2014 06:11 AM

I have a great affection for the Bab due to the intensity of his ministry and brutal martyrdom

BlinkeyBill 06-24-2014 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aidan (Post 54293)
I have a great affection for the Bab due to the intensity of his ministry and brutal martyrdom

Yes as do I.
Then as all the Manifestations we are told to look at them as all one and the same no matter, which one, one person may prefer they are in fact speaking of all.

EternalStudent9 06-24-2014 09:20 AM

I personally love all of Them. I've fallen in love with all of Their messages at different times, and that flows very nicely into my love for the message of Baha'u'llah.

If I had to pick ONE favorite, however, it would have to be Baha'u'llah, because He is the fulfillment of the prophecies and teachings of all past Messengers. And so, if I choose Him as my favorite I am actually choosing all of Them. :)

Yusuf Mirza Ali 06-24-2014 11:58 PM

I now have to say Buddha, for he was not just a man of Allah (swt) but he was a prince, a rich man being humble is something you don't see these days, I think I learned more about life in the story of Gautama Buddha than any other prophet.

Yusuf Mirza Ali 06-25-2014 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LogicalReason (Post 54217)
Bahaullah is not a messenger. He sent the messengers.

In fact, Bahaullah sent the Quran to Muhammad.

I'm sorry, but Bahá'u'lláh (PBUH) is not Allah (swt), he is the return of Christ the promised one of all religions, Allah (swt) will never manifest in person, which is why he sends messengers.

"The Manifestations of God are not seen as incarnations of God as God cannot be divided and does not descend to the condition of his creatures, but they are also not seen as ordinary mortals. Instead, the Bahá'í concept of a Manifestation of God emphasizes the simultaneously existing qualities of humanity and divinity. In the station of divinity, they show forth the will, knowledge and attributes of God; in the station of humanity, they show the physical qualitites of common man."

- Published in Bahá'í Studies, 9
Ottawa, ON: Baha'i Studies Publications, 1982

LogicalReason 06-25-2014 01:08 AM

Yusuf,

As I have clearly demonstrated, on one level Allah does not exist, Allah IS Baha.

Incarnation is even surpassed in some texts.

EternalStudent9 06-25-2014 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LogicalReason (Post 54471)
Yusuf,

As I have clearly demonstrated, on one level Allah does not exist, Allah IS Baha.

Incarnation is even surpassed in some texts.

LogicalReason, please stop claiming you have "clearly demonstrated" that on one level God does not exist. You have done no such thing. Thank you.

LogicalReason 06-25-2014 07:23 AM

Yes I have. You fail to recognize it.

EternalStudent9 06-25-2014 07:24 AM

If I have failed to recognize it then it is not clear.

LogicalReason 06-25-2014 07:26 AM

Read the Tablet of Burujirdi.

The Unknowable Essence itself cries in this Tablet.

EternalStudent9 06-25-2014 07:31 AM

Do you mean this one?
Tablet to Jamal-i-Burujirdi

LogicalReason 06-25-2014 07:32 AM

Read it carefully dearest

LogicalReason 06-25-2014 07:34 AM

Of particular interest are the opening paragraphs in which diverse perceptions of Bahá'u'lláh's station or claims are said to be "acceptable" as long as no contention results. The last paragraph makes it clear that teachers of the Baha' i Cause should, though levels of knowledge and insight differ, manifest the "utmost unity".

LogicalReason 06-25-2014 07:38 AM

Nabil wrote of Bahaullah:

Men say that Thou art God,
But I am moved to anger;
Remove Thy veil and submit no longer the SHAME of godhead

EternalStudent9 06-25-2014 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LogicalReason (Post 54542)
Of particular interest are the opening paragraphs in which diverse perceptions of Bahá'u'lláh's station or claims are said to be "acceptable" as long as no contention results. The last paragraph makes it clear that teachers of the Baha' i Cause should, though levels of knowledge and insight differ, manifest the "utmost unity".

Also of interest is this passage:
Quote:

The whole duty of man in this Day is to attain that share of the flood of grace which God poureth forth for him. Let none, therefore, consider the largeness or smallness of the receptacle. The portion of some might lie in the palm of a man's hand, the portion of others might fill a cup, and of others even a gallon-measure.
And this
Quote:

Beseech ye the one true God...
And this
Quote:

Nothing is, or can ever be, hidden from God.
I find it odd that an atheist Baha'u'llah would tell people to attain their share of God's grace, or that they should beseech God, or that He would say that nothing can be hidden from God.

Quote:

Nabil wrote of Bahaullah:

Men say that Thou art God,
But I am moved to anger;
Remove Thy veil and submit no longer the SHAME of godhead
First: link to source.
Second:
If He said it of Baha'u'llah, that makes some of your previous statements that Baha'u'llah is the closest to an existing God there is seem a little odd.
And, it is no different from Muhammad's statements that Jesus was not God (when Jesus Himself often spoke as if He were). It is a statement against idolatry, not theism.

LogicalReason 06-25-2014 08:00 AM

No offense but you don't read carefully. Spend more time reading each sentence. You skimmed a few important ones.

The Unknowable Essence cries, not the Manifestation of the Unknowable Essence.

EternalStudent9 06-25-2014 08:11 AM

Perhaps you are referring to this?
Quote:

O Jamál! The Unseen, the Inaccessible, the Transcendent One (God; ghayb-i maní` lá yudrak) lamenteth and weepeth for He inhaleth not the fragrance of that which, in this Day, is beloved (of God). The community of the True One should manifest the virtues of God for He is the Concealer of faults, the One Who Knoweth things hidden, the Forgiver of sins.
This is very much a theistic quote. In what way does it support your theory?

LogicalReason 06-25-2014 08:40 AM

The Unknowable Essence is speaking here, not the Manifestation.

Yusuf Mirza Ali 06-25-2014 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LogicalReason (Post 54542)
Of particular interest are the opening paragraphs in which diverse perceptions of Bahá'u'lláh's station or claims are said to be "acceptable" as long as no contention results. The last paragraph makes it clear that teachers of the Baha' i Cause should, though levels of knowledge and insight differ, manifest the "utmost unity".

Bahá is not Allah (swt) it is an attribute of Allah (swt), it even says that the attributes come down in human form, but not Allah (swt) himself.

LogicalReason 06-25-2014 10:50 AM

You can't read can you? Read the whole Tablet. It is clear. I have extensively studied and my family is from the time of the Bab.

LogicalReason 06-25-2014 10:53 AM

Bahaullah sent the Messengers and gave the Quran to Muhammad through Gibril. I Told my 1st grade teacher this in Iran. I was expelled from school by the school principal. Whipped with a stick and ruler by the teacher.

BlinkeyBill 06-25-2014 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LogicalReason (Post 54577)
You can't read can you? Read the whole Tablet. It is clear. I have extensively studied and my family is from the time of the Bab.

I find your pushing of your own understanding, and your belittling others truly offensive. Your continual references to your family going back to the time of the Bab, completely lacks any relevance, just read history and see how many family members even of Baha'u'llah trangressed.

I will continue to pray for you.

LogicalReason 06-25-2014 12:33 PM

Then you explain to me what this Tablet says. I really don't care if you don't believe me.

You think you are better than me that's why you're praying for me. I can tell in your tone.

Again you have no authority to insinuate that I am something, I am not stupid, I know what you mean.

I know for sure you do not have the authority to say that, please be careful you are harming the Faith.

Yusuf Mirza Ali 06-25-2014 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill (Post 54593)
I find your pushing of your own understanding, and your belittling others truly offensive. Your continual references to your family going back to the time of the Bab, completely lacks any relevance, just read history and see how many family members even of Baha'u'llah trangressed.


I will continue to pray for you.

Shalom-Aleichem, As-salamu alaykum, Állah-u-Ábha,

First off, even though I agree with you, please don't do the "I'll pray for you", that's one of the worst things you could say to an atheist/non-believer

As for you logical reason, you are atheist, why do you constantly say Bahá'u'lláh (saw) is Allah (swt) when I think you know you are wrong, Bahá'u'lláh speaks in Allah's (swt) when he is writing sometimes (quote provided) and that's what this tablet is, read the quote I gave you, not only are you an atheist so don't even believe what you said about Bahá'u'lláh (saw) giving the Qur'an to Muhammad (saw) through Jibril (as), but disregard what the UHJ says today, and they have the authority, Bahá'u'lláh (saw) is NOT Allah (swt) for even the Qur'an says that He doesn't begot a son or manifests in human and never will, that is why He sends messengers. Your stories of you being beaten for saying this mean nothing, nor do your family going back to the time of the Báb (saw), any full blooded Iranian man could say "My family goes back to the time of Báb (saw)" you are one in many in this argument, for I am related to the great Irish General Michael Collins (tabaalgdgd) but that doesn't mean I know everything about Èire's history or it's best interests.

Quotes:

"Bahá'u'lláh stated that he was a messenger of God, and he used the term Manifestation of God to define the concept of an intermediary between humanity and God."

"Bahá'u'lláh wrote that God will never manifest his essence into the world."

"The Manifestations of God, as explained by Bahá'u'lláh, are not incarnations of God, but have a two-fold station; one which is the divine in that they reveal God's attributes, but not God's essence, and one which is human in that they represent the physical qualities of common man, and have human limitations"


-The Concept of Manifestation in the Bahá'í Writings
published in Bahá'í Studies, 9
Ottawa, ON: Baha'i Studies Publications, 1982


"In Bahá'u'lláh's writings he writes in many styles including cases where he speaks as if he was instructed by God to bring a message; in other cases he writes as though he is speaking as God directly. Some have interpreted Bahá'u'lláh's writing style to conclude that Bahá'u'lláh had claimed divinity. Bahá'u'lláh, however, states himself that the essence of God will never descend into the human world. Statements where Bahá'u'lláh speaks with the voice of God are meant that he is not actually God, but that he is speaking with the attributes of God."

-Esselmont, 1980, pg 41-49

PS:


(tabaalgdgd) is short for tsíocháin a bheith air agus le gach duine grá dó, an Irish phrase that means "Peace be upon him and all those who loved him", I say this after I say the name of a family member or friend of mine that died.

Yusuf Mirza Ali 06-25-2014 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LogicalReason (Post 54543)
Nabil wrote of Bahaullah:

Men say that Thou art God,
But I am moved to anger;
Remove Thy veil and submit no longer the SHAME of godhead

Your quotes also have not been written by Bahá'u'lláh (saw) therefor irrelevant, and Bahá'u'lláh (saw) even said Allah (swt) will never manifest.

Yusuf Mirza Ali 06-25-2014 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LogicalReason (Post 54579)
Bahaullah sent the Messengers and gave the Quran to Muhammad through Gibril. I Told my 1st grade teacher this in Iran. I was expelled from school by the school principal. Whipped with a stick and ruler by the teacher.

According to you, no he didn't, for you are an athiest therefor reject that Bahá'u'lláh (saw) is a divine prophet, and you also believe Allah (swt) doesn't even exist, as well a Jibril (as), so are you a Bahá'í or atheist? You're signature says you're an athiest.

Yusuf Mirza Ali 06-25-2014 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LogicalReason (Post 54471)
Yusuf,

As I have clearly demonstrated, on one level Allah does not exist, Allah IS Baha.

Incarnation is even surpassed in some texts.


Bahá is an attribute of Allah (swt), not a being.

LogicalReason 06-26-2014 01:24 AM

You are making too many assumptions and not reading what I wrote.

Yusuf Mirza Ali 06-26-2014 01:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LogicalReason (Post 54636)
You are making too many assumptions and not reading what I wrote.

What assumptions? You are also denying what I said which is true, write to the UHJ and ask then

Yusuf Mirza Ali 06-26-2014 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LogicalReason (Post 54217)
Bahaullah is not a messenger. He sent the messengers.

In fact, Bahaullah sent the Quran to Muhammad.

But you are an Athiest, so you don't believe he did? What are you, you make no sense.

LogicalReason 06-26-2014 01:31 AM

Bahaullah claims this in unpublished texts. Your quotes are only from a few texts translated by Shoghi Effendi. Even if Bahaullah did say in one place the essence of god does not appear, in another place he said it did. Esslemont skipped over these, assuming he even read them.

H123's website cites a few other examples of opposite ideas presented by Bahaullah.

aidan 06-26-2014 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill (Post 54593)
I find your pushing of your own understanding, and your belittling others truly offensive. Your continual references to your family going back to the time of the Bab, completely lacks any relevance, just read history and see how many family members even of Baha'u'llah trangressed.

I will continue to pray for you.

All Baha'is are of equal standing and value, regardless of lineage. That's one of the attributes that makes our Faith so beautiful. I know Baha'is whose family have moved in the ame circles as The Master yet they're so humble and reluctant to proclaim it.

Yusuf Mirza Ali 06-27-2014 11:19 AM

All humans are equal

BlinkeyBill 06-27-2014 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yusuf Mirza Ali (Post 54627)
Shalom-Aleichem, As-salamu alaykum, Állah-u-Ábha,

First off, even though I agree with you, please don't do the "I'll pray for you", that's one of the worst things you could say to an atheist/non-believer

Dear friend but this person continually says he/she is Baha'i, how you can know they are atheist I do not know. But if they were then yes I would speak a little differently. But they continually say they are Baha'i that his/her family goes back to the time of the Bab. But He/she says the most strange things so yes I do not just say I will pray for them but I do, I worry for what is said. I would rather pray for them than do as he/she does attack or criticize.

I pray also for Mankind, I pray for my parents etc, I consider I am doing a loving thing, I will continue to pray both for myself and others.

BlinkeyBill 06-27-2014 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aidan (Post 54673)
All Baha'is are of equal standing and value, regardless of lineage. That's one of the attributes that makes our Faith so beautiful. I know Baha'is whose family have moved in the ame circles as The Master yet they're so humble and reluctant to proclaim it.

So true dear friend, I always think of what the Master said, a person can call themselves a Baha'i for, I think it was 50 years but may indeed not be one.

None of us can claim anything, it is up to God and Him alone.

Loving regards to you.

jupitermadcat 06-27-2014 03:45 PM

Jesus.


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