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Old 09-23-2015, 02:36 PM   #1
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Demonic possession.

Do you believe that a person can be possessed by a demon/evil entity, or not? What are your reasons for your particular stance?
 
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Old 09-23-2015, 03:24 PM   #2
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I don't know about possession, but I once had an interesting sleep paralysis experience where I was being tossed around my room. I would wake up being unable to move then would enter my "dream room" again and once more was attacked.

The thing that I found interesting was that this happened when I started to become more attracted to finding God and began reading the bible among other scriptures.

I prefer to keep a cynical view of it but I still keep it of note in my mind.
 
Old 09-23-2015, 03:53 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidan View Post
Do you believe that a person can be possessed by a demon/evil entity, or not? What are your reasons for your particular stance?
Aidan,

Based on my understanding of the Baha'i teachings I think a person can, at least technically, be possessed by demons. But I would say that a demon is not actually an entity but rather a non-entity, given that Divine attributes are positivistic and satanic ones are negativistic in nature. Think yin and yang, light and dark. People can become obsessed with certain satanic ideas, practices, or impulses to the degree that they lose control of some of their reasoning ability and aspects of their life, and may indeed become harmful to their self or others. This person could technically be said to be "demon possessed", from a Baha'i perspective of evil, even though in reality words such as possession and demons are not very likely to be heard from Baha'is.

Cheers
 
Old 09-23-2015, 10:56 PM   #4
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Demonic language connotations

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fadl View Post
Aidan,

Based on my understanding of the Baha'i teachings I think a person can, at least technically, be possessed by demons. But I would say that a demon is not actually an entity but rather a non-entity, given that Divine attributes are positivistic and satanic ones are negativistic in nature. Think yin and yang, light and dark. People can become obsessed with certain satanic ideas, practices, or impulses to the degree that they lose control of some of their reasoning ability and aspects of their life, and may indeed become harmful to their self or others. This person could technically be said to be "demon possessed", from a Baha'i perspective of evil, even though in reality words such as possession and demons are not very likely to be heard from Baha'is.

Cheers
Fadl,
. You have a good description of what happens when people refuse the Light of Baha'u'llah, and thereby manifest the attributes of the lower nature to such an extent that in the language of the past, a descriptive of such a term was common.
.
. However, wouldn't you think that using the old labels like demons and possessions only perpetuaten a false reality? For we do not recognize such things as demons as an existing living entity which enters us, as though creeping about in the shadows preying on souls.

. Its an inaccurate description of what is actually happening when we succumb to the promptings of our lower, animal nature, which unfortunately has access to our mental faculties as well, such as will, and imagination, and we are subject to these base and appetitIve desires
.
. When we descend into the bottomless pit of error, our soul is starved of the virtures. We fall victim not to demonic spirits from without, but contemptible behavior from within our own being.
.
Therefore we must obey the Laws of God to achieve a saintly character.
. "The light of a good character surpasses the light of the world. Association with the righteous cleanses the rust from off the heart."
.
. "Eschew all fellowship with the ungodly"

. Within truthfulNess all progress of the soul ceases...

Ya Baha'ul'Abha! !
 
Old 09-24-2015, 04:28 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidan View Post
Do you believe that a person can be possessed by a demon/evil entity, or not?
No.

Quote:
What are your reasons for your particular stance?
I have many reasons, but I'll just limit myself to one personal reason.

I remember a man screaming and running down the aisle of a Baptist church. When he arrived around the altar, the preacher cast out the demon. As a kid I was terrified. I recall a person sitting near me saying she felt something cold go by. After the service I was told not to touch anything. "Don't touch the flagpole! The demon could be inside it! If you touch the pole, the demon will enter you!" So what did I do? I didn't touch anything.

I wouldn't want another child to experience this terror.

Last edited by ahanu; 09-24-2015 at 04:30 AM.
 
Old 09-24-2015, 06:20 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dale ramsdell View Post
Fadl,
. You have a good description of what happens when people refuse the Light of Baha'u'llah, and thereby manifest the attributes of the lower nature to such an extent that in the language of the past, a descriptive of such a term was common.
.
. However, wouldn't you think that using the old labels like demons and possessions only perpetuaten a false reality? For we do not recognize such things as demons as an existing living entity which enters us, as though creeping about in the shadows preying on souls.

. Its an inaccurate description of what is actually happening when we succumb to the promptings of our lower, animal nature, which unfortunately has access to our mental faculties as well, such as will, and imagination, and we are subject to these base and appetitIve desires
.
. When we descend into the bottomless pit of error, our soul is starved of the virtures. We fall victim not to demonic spirits from without, but contemptible behavior from within our own being.
.
Therefore we must obey the Laws of God to achieve a saintly character.
. "The light of a good character surpasses the light of the world. Association with the righteous cleanses the rust from off the heart."
.
. "Eschew all fellowship with the ungodly"

. Within truthfulNess all progress of the soul ceases...

Ya Baha'ul'Abha! !
Dale,

Yes I agree with you that such terms as demonic possession may not be helpful since most people who use the terms are unfamiliar with the Baha'i concept of evil and it causes confusion when people who do not share the same definitions of terms engage each other with their incompatible lexicons. I was only saying that I think from a Baha'i perspective, and given the fact that these terms do exist in Judaeo / Christian / Islamic (and many other) belief systems, that it is possible even if not in the way it is commonly accepted or understood. Therefore, technically speaking, I believe it is possible and does happen if we are using the terms as defined in the Baha'i teachings.

Cheers

Last edited by Fadl; 09-24-2015 at 06:27 AM.
 
Old 09-24-2015, 07:13 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aidan View Post
Do you believe that a person can be possessed by a demon/evil entity, or not? What are your reasons for your particular stance?
Not that I have experience of demonic possession, but I do have experience of negative, destructive thinking among a group of people. It is frightening and can make one feel that the sick thoughs fill up the very air one breathes. I'd say that such negative thinking can be so strong that one has the impression that it has a life of its own.

gnat
 
Old 09-24-2015, 12:50 PM   #8
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"Demonic possession" no- not in the sense we see in horror movies. but only in one sense and that is absence of godly attributes in one person.

The reality underlying this is that the evil spirit, Satan or whatever is interpreted as evil, refers to the lower nature of man. This basic nature is symbolized in various ways. In man there are two expressions; One is the expression of nature, the other the expression of the spiritual realm. The world of nature is defective. Look at it clearly, casting aside all superstition and imagination... God has never created an evil spirit; all such ideas and nomenclature are symbols expressing the mere human or earthly nature of man. It is an essential condition of the soil of earth thorns, weeds and fruitless trees may grow from it. Relatively speaking, this is evil: it is simply the lower state and basic product of nature." (~ 'Abdu'l-Bahá, "Promulgation of Universal Peace," pp. 294-295, 1982 ed.)

in my opinion it is far from God's justice for an entity we cannot see or have control upon (demon) to take control of us.
 
Old 09-25-2015, 08:55 AM   #9
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People are capable of doing enough terrible things on their own, I don't need to imagine ominous beings behind them making them do so.
 
Old 03-23-2016, 08:48 AM   #10
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I was searching for a thread about demonic possession when I found this one.

I have answered here that I do not believe in demonic "entities" outside of our own nature but...

my sister showed me a "REAL" and very short clip which she has recently received. in it a woman is making a tutorial about eye-makeup in front of her computer webcam and at the same time the things she is teaching are broadcasting in the internet, online. when suddenly something like a shadow appears and the woman just looks at that like a "doll" and then her head starts to crash the table in front of her on and on and on until blood covers everywhere and the woman dies. in the video, no one is seen; her head just moves by itself like by an invisible creature... REALLY DISGUSTING how her head smashed out and blood....

but after seeing it, I do not know how to explain such a happening. or how to explain something like what Wyatt Tm here has talked about; something more than a simple sleep paralyses.

Bahaullah has said that devil and evil are parts of human nature. but has He talked about "demon" or possession? if such a thing doesn't exist at all, then how we have so many movies (most of them fictional) about the matter? it is an idiom in Iran that says: "as long as there is nothing, people will not talk about nothing"; which means there must have been something which has caused people to talk about it so much!

can anyone help me with information?
 
Old 03-23-2016, 10:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryamr View Post
it is an idiom in Iran that says: "as long as there is nothing, people will not talk about nothing"; which means there must have been something which has caused people to talk about it so much!

can anyone help me with information?
I would say, it is not really an idiom. I think there are a lot of false statements in Persian language and culture.

For example:

There is a saying in persian: "The innocent goes upto hang, but his head doesn't go up the hang."

So, there has been so many innocent people who were killed for wrong reasons. It is obvious this is a false statement.

Here is another one:

"The alive person doesn't need a lawer or a gardian"

It is obvious, this is wrong. People do need lawers. And may of them need gardians.

I mean there are so many false and unjust sayings in persian.

Consider, they said, "Baha'is are spies". Does it mean, there must be something going on, since people talk about it?


The demonic possesion comes from misunderstanding of people of the past from certain brain disease and ilnessess that made them act in strange way.

They misinterpreted Bible, and thought these brain ilnesses are that same dimonic possesion Bible talks about.
Baha'u'llah taught us, these stories are symbolic, and if we take them literally, it would be superstitious.
 
Old 03-23-2016, 10:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvestigateTruth View Post
I would say, it is not really an idiom. I think there are a lot of false statements in Persian language and culture.

For example:

There is a saying in persian: "The innocent goes upto hang, but his head doesn't go up the hang."

So, there has been so many innocent people who were killed for wrong reasons. It is obvious this is a false statement.

Here is another one:

"The alive person doesn't need a lawer or a gardian"

It is obvious, this is wrong. People do need lawers. And may of them need gardians.

I mean there are so many false and unjust sayings in persian.

Consider, they said, "Baha'is are spies". Does it mean, there must be something going on, since people talk about it?


The demonic possesion comes from misunderstanding of people of the past from certain brain disease and ilnessess that made them act in strange way.

They misinterpreted Bible, and thought these brain ilnesses are that same dimonic possesion Bible talks about.
Baha'u'llah taught us, these stories are symbolic, and if we take them literally, it would be superstitious.
actually you are completely right about wrong sayings
and about demons .... if the so called "possessions" are caused by some mental disorders then how is it that in some cases they are cured by using special prayers and cured "suddenly"? (I guess that short video has really affected me )
 
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