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Old 03-07-2016, 09:18 AM   #1
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Evidence that Baha'u'llah is Manifestation of God

The Question is 'What evidence of divinity for Baha'u'llah exists and that He possesses all the attributes of God, such as being All-knowing, Powerful,...etc?'

My Reply:

From the holy scriptures, there are certain signs and proofs for divinity.
For example, according to Quran, when God says 'be', then 'it is'. Or it is said, God is All-knowing, which means He knows all things without having to study them or read them. Such power and intrinsic knowledge are qualities and characteristics of divinity of God.

So, if Allah was manifested in Baha'ullah, we must see such signs of divinity from Baha'u'llah. For example we should see evidences when Baha'u'llah said 'Be', then it happend. We should also see evidences that Baha'u'llah knew many things without studying them, that is proof of being All-knowing.


For the sake of breivity, here, some of the evidences that such Attributes of God, were Manifested in Baha'u'llah:


Evidence of omnipotence from Baha'u'llah:

One of the Prophecies that was made in Bible and Quran, is on the Promised Day, God makes all things new, and a new creation comes on earth.

When the Bab and Baha'u'llah appeared, through their verses, they said, this new creation soon will appear. Here are some verses from Baha'u'llah:


"Verily, We have caused every soul to expire by virtue of Our irresistible and all-subduing sovereignty. We have, then, called into being a new creation, as a token of Our grace unto men. I am, verily, the All-Bountiful, the Ancient of Days. " - Baha'u'llah


Now, the question is, did this promise happend?

Abdulbaha explained:

"Now the new age is here and creation is reborn. Humanity hath taken on new life. The autumn hath gone by, and the reviving spring is here. All things are now made new. Arts and industries have been reborn, there are new discoveries in science, and there are new inventions; even the details of human affairs, such as dress and personal effects—even weapons—all these have likewise been renewed. The laws and procedures of every government have been revised. Renewal is the order of the day.
And all this newness hath its source in the fresh outpourings of wondrous grace and favour from the Lord of the Kingdom, which have renewed the world. The people, therefore, must be set completely free from their old patterns of thought, that all their attention may be focused upon these new principles, for these are the light of this time and the very spirit of this age."
- Abdulbaha

We notice that, since the time of Manifestation of the Bab and Baha'u'llah, the old world disappered, and now we literally live in a new World. Thiss becomes evident when one, examines the history, and verifies, that how rapidly technologies, sciences, and the governemt orders changed, since 19th Century. Such a great change with this scale, rapidity, never occured in previous centuries.


Other instances that the sign of Omnipotencewas Manifested from Baha'u'llah was when He said to some of the tyrant kings and rulers of His time, that their power and kingdom " shall soon pass away".

For example Baha'u'llah wrote:

"Soon will We dismiss the one who was like unto him [`Al Psh], and will lay hold on their Chief who ruleth the land [the Sultan], and I, verily, am the Almighty, the All-Compelling."

Whenever Baha'u'llah said, kingdom of a tryrant will fall, it did happen, eventhough at the time, such rulers were in great power.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bah%C3...arious_leaders





Evidence of being All-knowing:

According to history, the Bab and Baha'u'llah were born in Persia, and none of them were Clergy and were not trained in Religion, sciences, ..or Arabic Language.
The attribute of being All-knowing become evidence, when, all the Knowledge that appeared from Them, was not through learning or studying.
For example, the Bab's mother tongue was Farsi, He was trained as a Merchant, yet, He wrote many Books in Arabic. In fact one of the Books called Qayoum-alasm, written just like Quran. The same is true about Baha'u'llah. It is evident that, for example, He was well versed in writing commentaries, and He knew well the details of Scriptures of the past, such as Quran, Bible, and recorded Traditions, History...etc.



Baha'u'llah explains, because the eternal King is manifested in the body of a Mortal Man (the physical body of Manifestation), that has caused people to doubt:


"And now regarding His words, that the Son of man shall “come in the clouds of heaven.” By the term “clouds” is meant those things that are contrary to the ways and desires of men. Even as He hath revealed in the verse already quoted: “As oft as an Apostle cometh unto you with that which your souls desire not, ye swell with pride, accusing some of being impostors and slaying others.”56 These “clouds” signify, in one sense, the annulment of laws, the abrogation of former Dispensations, the repeal of rituals and customs current amongst men, the exalting of the illiterate faithful above the learned opposers of the Faith. In another sense, they mean the appearance of that immortal Beauty in the image of mortal man, with such human limitations as eating and drinking, poverty and riches, glory and abasement, sleeping and waking, and such other things as cast doubt in the minds of men, and cause them to turn away. All such veils are symbolically referred to as “clouds.”

Last edited by InvestigateTruth; 03-07-2016 at 09:28 AM.
 
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Old 03-07-2016, 09:43 AM   #2
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Now, when we consider that, according to Prophecies of many Scriptures and sayings of the Prophets, Two Promised one were to appear. They mentioned many signs, among them are: the Promised one appear in year 1260 AH (1844), and the other appear 19 years later, and the duration of Messengership of the first One is 7, and the duration of Messengership of the second one is 40 years, and the Name of the first one is like Prophet Muhammad, He is from His lineage, and the Second promised one is named Hussein...etc..etc.

Now, the least to say about the Bab and Baha'u'llah is that, they were extraordinary Men, as it is evidence from their History and their Writings.

The Question is now, is it possible that God allows two false prophets appear with exact time, and duration as recorded in Prophecies of the Prophets? And that they show evidences, such as described?
I remember a quote from Baha'u'llah, He said such words to some: "If you cannot accept this Revelation, how did you believe in previous ones!?"
 
Old 03-07-2016, 12:15 PM   #3
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Very, very interesting. Really. I will meditate on this.

But I'd like to ask you one question.

The prophecies regarding the End of Times have not been exhausted by the Baha'i revelation. More and more prophetic hadiths and biblical signs are being accomplished since these past few years. Prophecies such as the socio-economic transformations of Mecca, gay marriage, spreading of wildfires, ISIS, and so the more are being fulfilled in our era, not in Baha'u'llah's. What does this mean ? Why is this being fulfilled in the beginning of the third millenium ?
 
Old 03-07-2016, 12:21 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoaForce View Post
Very, very interesting. Really. I will meditate on this.

But I'd like to ask you one question.

The prophecies regarding the End of Times have not been exhausted by the Baha'i revelation. More and more prophetic hadiths and biblical signs are being accomplished since these past few years. Prophecies such as the socio-economic transformations of Mecca, gay marriage, spreading of wildfires, ISIS, and so the more are being fulfilled in our era, not in Baha'u'llah's. What does this mean ? Why is this being fulfilled in the beginning of the third millenium ?
Can you please post a couple of these Hadithes?
 
Old 03-07-2016, 12:49 PM   #5
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ISIS :

Quote:
Sayyiduna ‘Ali (radiyallahu ‘anhu) says:

‘When you see the black flags, remain where you are and do not move your hands or your feet. Thereafter there shall appear a feeble folk to whom no concern is given. Their hearts will be like fragments of iron. They are the representatives of the State. They will fulfill neither covenant nor agreement. They will invite to the truth, though they are not from its people. Their names will be agnomens [i.e., Abu So-and-so], and their ascriptions will be to villages [i.e. al-dimashqi al-baghdadi ]. Their hair will be long like that of women. [They shall remain] till they differ among themselves, and then Allah will bring forth the truth from whomever He wills.’
Futuristic Arabia :

Quote:
In a hadith narrated by Imam Bukhari Prophet(Peace be upon him) said, ‘That the female slave should give birth to her mistress, and you see poor, naked, barefoot shepherds of sheep and goats competing in making tall buildings.’
Slicks and water pollution :

Quote:
This is what the Lord says: By this you will know that I am the Lord: With the staff that is in my hand I will strike the water of the Nile, and it will be changed into blood. 18 The fish in the Nile will die, and the river will stink; the Egyptians will not be able to drink its water.’”

19 The Lord said to Moses, “Tell Aaron, ‘Take your staff and stretch out your hand over the waters of Egypt—over the streams and canals, over the ponds and all the reservoirs—and they will turn to blood.’ Blood will be everywhere in Egypt, even in vessels[a] of wood and stone.” Exodus 7:17-19 (oil is the blood of the Earth)
Arabic people spreading in the Biblical nations :

Quote:
If you do not let my people go, I will send swarms of flies on you and your officials, on your people and into your houses. The houses of the Egyptians will be full of flies; even the ground will be covered with them. Exodus 8:21
Here, the hebrew word 'Arov', currently translated by flies, is also the names of the Arabs.

Corrupted governments :

Quote:
Hazrat Abu Huraira narrates that, while the Holy Prophet was saying something in a gathering, a Bedouin came and asked him, "When will the Hour (Day of Judgement) take place?" Allah's Messenger continued his talk, so some people said that he had heard the question but did not like what the Bedouin had asked. Some of them said that Allah's Messenger had not heard it. When the Holy Prophet finished his speech, he said,"Where is the questioner, who enquired about the Hour (Day of Judgement)?" The Bedouin said, "I am here, O Allah's Messenger ." Then the Holy Prophet said, "When honesty is lost, then wait for the Hour." The Bedouin said, "How will that be lost?" The Holy Prophet said, "When the power or authority comes in the hands of unfit persons, then wait for the Hour."

Bukhari
Night clubs :

Quote:
HADITH SHARIF (55. People will dance late into the night)
Acceptation of homosexuality :

Quote:
People will indulge in homosexuality and lesbianism (Al-Muttaqi Al-Hindi, Muntakhab Kanzul Ummaal)
There are more of them. Many of the prophetic hadiths are explicited by the Shaykh Hamza Yusuf.
 
Old 03-07-2016, 01:04 PM   #6
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I'm pretty sure people have danced at night for as long as we've been rubbing sticks together to make cellulose combust.
 
Old 03-07-2016, 01:05 PM   #7
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Thank you GoaForce,

My understanding is that, the Prophets did not specifically prophecied about ISIS, or other specific people or group.

However, what they prophecied is that there are signs for the End time.

What I understand from scriptures is that Revelation of God is like a Tree.

In every Spring, it begins to be renewed, and gradually becomes green, until it gives bossoms, and eventually in Summer its Fruits becomes fully manifested. Then it will keep its good fruits for a while, until the Fall and Winter which gradually it gives no more fruits and completely dies or sleeps. It always goes through this cycle.

When the Prophets spoke of the Signs of the end, they were speaking exactly of the end of life of Tree of Revelation and its lack of fruits.

Now, consider that, when Spring comes, the Fruits do not immidiately appear. However some signs of life appears in the Tree.

Consider, how much progress is made in science, technology as well as Laws of governments.

Now, the Fruits of Revelation are manifested in this Word, as improvement in human conduct, order, and unity, while disappearence of fruits are manifested as increase in Chaos, bad human conduct, war,...disunity, and many other disorders.

Therefore, if we see more disorders, that is the signs of the End. So, this is what the Prophets intended to say.
But now the Spring of Revelation has come, though in my view, the Summer has not come yet. That is why we still see conflicts, disorders,..etc. The Summer of Baha'I Revelation comes, when we see the great peace is estaablished.

Last edited by InvestigateTruth; 03-07-2016 at 01:10 PM.
 
Old 03-07-2016, 01:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
My understanding is that, the Prophets did not specifically prophecied about ISIS, or other specific people or group.
Well, the hadithic wisdom appears pretty clearly on that one.

Quote:
When the Prophets spoke of the Signs of the end, they were speaking exactly of the end of life of Tree of Revelation and its lack of fruits.
I think here that you are trying to put things into a pre-established pattern that can distort vision. It seems to me that :

_some prophecies were fulfilled by the XIXth century surrounding the Baha'i revelation, regarding the coming of a messenger.

_some prophecies are being fulfilled today regarding the End of Times. These are two separate things. I know people who interpret these signs as being the end of the times of ignorance.

I also remark that although there appeared a Mahdi, a Christ and a Dajjal (Bab, Baha, Azal), the Mahdic, Christic and Dajjalic energies are getting more and more intense in these days. It's as if the Baha'i revelation was a scenery at a little scale of a scenario that is now happening at global scale, it's very strange. The Dajjal is here, and this time, it's not Azal. And it's almost as if a new return of Christ was going to happen, but this Christ and this Dajjal are not individuals this time.

Quote:
When the Prophets spoke of the Signs of the end, they were speaking exactly of the end of life of Tree of Revelation and its lack of fruits.
So I accept this, since it's have proved true, but it sounds incomplete. The Scriptures really seem to point to our era, and I feel that something will happen soon.

Quote:
Therefore, if we see more disorders, that is the signs of the End. So, this is what the Prophets intended to say.
What you tell here is interesting, because you're actually saying that the signs of the end are actually the retro-active effects of the Baha'i revelation. I tend to agree.

Quote:
But now the Spring of Revelation has come, though in my view, the Summer has not come yet. That is why we still see conflicts, disorders,..etc.
OK

Thanks for your input.
 
Old 03-07-2016, 02:05 PM   #9
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Hi GoaForce.

Your passages remind me of this prophecy by Baha'u'llah:

"The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody."

- Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah
 
Old 03-07-2016, 02:06 PM   #10
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Thanks Matthew. That quote is amazing !
 
Old 03-07-2016, 02:31 PM   #11
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A tempest, unprecedented in its violence, unpredictable in its course, catastrophic in its immediate effects, unimaginably glorious in its ultimate consequences, is at present sweeping the face of the earth. Its driving power is remorselessly gaining in range and momentum. Its cleansing force, however much undetected, is increasing with every passing day. Humanity, gripped in the clutches of its devastating power, is smitten by the evidences of its resistless fury. It can neither perceive its origin, nor probe its significance, nor discern its outcome. Bewildered, agonized and helpless, it watches this great and mighty wind of God invading the remotest and fairest regions of the earth, rocking its foundations, deranging its equilibrium, sundering its nations, disrupting the homes of its peoples, wasting its cities, driving into exile its kings, pulling down its bulwarks, uprooting its institutions, dimming its light, and harrowing up the souls of its inhabitants.

“The time for the destruction of the world and its people,” Bah’u’llh’s prophetic pen has proclaimed, “hath arrived.” “The hour is approaching,” He specifically affirms, “when the most great convulsion will have appeared.” “The promised day is come, the day when tormenting trials will have surged above your heads, and beneath your feet, saying: ‘Taste ye what your hands have wrought!’” “Soon shall the blasts of His chastisement beat upon you, and the dust of hell enshroud you.” And again: “And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake.” “The day is approaching when its [civilization’s] flame will devour the cities, when the Tongue of Grandeur will proclaim: ‘The Kingdom is God’s, the Almighty, the All-Praised!’” “The day will soon come,” He, referring to the foolish ones of the earth, has written, “whereon they will cry out for help and receive no answer.” “The day is approaching,” He moreover has prophesied, “when the wrathful anger of the Almighty will have taken hold of them. He, verily, is the Omnipotent, the All-Subduing, the Most Powerful. He shall cleanse the earth from the defilement of their corruption, and shall give it for an heritage unto such of His servants as are nigh unto Him.”

“As to those who deny Him Who is the Sublime Gate of God,” the Bb, for His part, has affirmed in the Qayym-i-Asm’, “for them We have prepared, as justly decreed by God, a sore torment. And He, God, is the Mighty, the Wise.” And further, “O peoples of the earth! I swear by your Lord! Ye shall act as former generations have acted. Warn ye, then, yourselves of the terrible, the most grievous vengeance of God. For God is, verily, potent over all things.” And again: “By My glory! I will make the infidels to taste, with the hands of My power, retributions unknown of anyone except Me, and will waft over the faithful those musk-scented breaths which I have nursed in the midmost heart of My throne.”

(Introduction to The Promised Day Is Come by Shoghi Effendi)

through

gnat
 
Old 03-08-2016, 08:49 AM   #12
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I read in another thread that our friend, Paul had asked Investigatethetruth about sings of Omnipotence, All Knowing and other Godly attributes, in Bahaullah (and therefor in all other messengers of God).

my answer to that question is this:

According to Baha'i teachings also Islam and Sufism and mysticism, there are five realms:
Nasut, Malakut, Jabarut,Lahut and Hahut (almost every one has heard about nasoot and lahut) .

now Nasut is the lowest realm, in this world and Hahut is the highest in which there is ONLY GOD. then Malakut is for complete souls of great people and Jabarut is for saintly souls and for the angels. then we have Lahut. Lahut is ONLY for prophets and messengers of God; ONLY them. all worlds before Lahut, are called "worlds of creation"; then Lahut is called "world of reflection" because in this world God's attributes are reflected in the prophets. no great soul of any human being can reach Lahut. but prophets who are the "words of God" exist there and they are the media through whom we can connect Hahut which is realm of God.

now if we say that Prophets are complete reflections of attributes of God, first of all, we are mentioning that kind of existence in the world of Lahut. they are the most complete souls and they are the only medias through which all others can connect to God. and another matter is that yes, they reflect all attributes of God as much as the capacity of a created soul..

no ordinary human being can ever manifest the attributes of God in that level of prophets and manifestations. prophets and manifestations are most complete souls. it is like if we imagine that created soul have the potential ability of 10, then prophets have used all their capacity and have fulfilled all attributes as much as is the capacity of a created soul.

even in Islam we have a Hadith that say at the night of Meraj of Mohammad, when he went up to the seventh sky and the tree of Sadra, Gabriel was all the time accompanying him yet in a certain stage he said: "Mohammad, I can no more accompany you; if I come one step forward I will burn." . that means the capacity of the souls of messengers of God is extraordinary. yet they have physical aspects too; like this physical body, like feeling of hunger and thirst and because of these attributes they cannot be exactly like God. yet I repeat that they manifest the attributes of God as much as is the capacity of any created soul
 
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