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Old 03-11-2016, 09:47 AM   #1
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Exclamation Resurrection: spiritual & "bodily"?!

According to the teaching of The Bab and Baha'ullah, Baha'is believe that resurrection is a spiritual matter and not bodily. while Muslims take some Ayats in Qur'an as a sign of resurrection being both physical and spiritual, Baha'is emphasis the necessity of reading Qur'an in light of wisdom and to try to go beyond the surface of what is said there.

today I was reading a book by one of my most favorite philosophers, still alive, in Iran. (I do not mention his name here). I have a great respect for the ideas of this man and his great wisdom which has made him to be the ONLY LIVING philosopher in Iran. yet, I realized that despite of his all the time emphasis on the importance of wisdom and not to be caught up in the old reading of texts, he has a strong belief on resurrection being both spiritual and bodily. he, too, take the ayah's of Qur'an as his reason.

when I read his discourses, it made me go and search about the matter; apart from my own believes, apart from Baha'is teachings.

and then I came to Avicenna. he "was a Persian polymath who is regarded as one of the most significant thinkers and writers of the Islamic Golden Age." (Wiki) and I dare say not "one of them" but the best of them. his theories nowadays have shed light on many difficult matters of time. this great man when talking about resurrection says that the spiritual resurrection can be explained by many reasons; both from Qur'an AND also by use of science (of his time) BUT for bodily resurrection there are NO possible scientific and rational reasons other than the words of Qur'an itself.

Avicenna had been a GREAT man; in about 1000 years ago, he has talked about things which even nowadays people cannot understand and argue about.

when I read such people's ideas and I witness the similarity between them and Baha'i ideas, I become surer and surer in what Baha'ullah and The Bab have said. and I more and more realize the importance of delving deep into Qur'an teachings.

Last edited by maryamr; 03-11-2016 at 09:50 AM.
 
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:39 AM   #2
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There is a statement made by the Imam, Jafar Sadiq (d. 765 CE):[9]

"The book of God comprises four things: the statement set down, the allusions, the hidden meanings relating to the supra-sensible world, and the exalted spiritual doctrines. The literal statement is for the ordinary believers. The allusions are the concern of the elite. The hidden meanings pertain to the friends of God. The exalted spiritual doctrines are the province of the prophets."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esot...n_of_the_Quran
 
Old 03-11-2016, 11:42 AM   #3
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A hadith attributed to Muhammad is essential in understanding the inward aspects of the Quran, and is fundamental to Quranic exegesis:[9]

"The Quran possesses an external appearance and a hidden depth, an exoteric meaning and an esoteric meaning. This esoteric meaning in turn conceals an esoteric meaning so it goes on for seven esoteric meanings (seven depths of hidden depth)."
 
Old 03-11-2016, 11:49 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryamr View Post
According to the teaching of The Bab and Baha'ullah, Baha'is believe that resurrection is a spiritual matter and not bodily. while Muslims take some Ayats in Qur'an as a sign of resurrection being both physical and spiritual, Baha'is emphasis the necessity of reading Qur'an in light of wisdom and to try to go beyond the surface of what is said there.

today I was reading a book by one of my most favorite philosophers, still alive, in Iran. (I do not mention his name here). I have a great respect for the ideas of this man and his great wisdom which has made him to be the ONLY LIVING philosopher in Iran. yet, I realized that despite of his all the time emphasis on the importance of wisdom and not to be caught up in the old reading of texts, he has a strong belief on resurrection being both spiritual and bodily. he, too, take the ayah's of Qur'an as his reason.

when I read his discourses, it made me go and search about the matter; apart from my own believes, apart from Baha'is teachings.

and then I came to Avicenna. he "was a Persian polymath who is regarded as one of the most significant thinkers and writers of the Islamic Golden Age." (Wiki) and I dare say not "one of them" but the best of them. his theories nowadays have shed light on many difficult matters of time. this great man when talking about resurrection says that the spiritual resurrection can be explained by many reasons; both from Qur'an AND also by use of science (of his time) BUT for bodily resurrection there are NO possible scientific and rational reasons other than the words of Qur'an itself.

Avicenna had been a GREAT man; in about 1000 years ago, he has talked about things which even nowadays people cannot understand and argue about.

when I read such people's ideas and I witness the similarity between them and Baha'i ideas, I become surer and surer in what Baha'ullah and The Bab have said. and I more and more realize the importance of delving deep into Qur'an teachings.
If everyone was supposed to know, God would have made it easier.

But God does not only guide. He also misleads:

"God disdains not to use the similitude of things, lowest as well as highest. Those who believe know that it is truth from their Lord; but those who reject Faith say: "What means God by this similitude?" By it He causes many to stray, and many He leads into the right path; but He causes not to stray, except those who forsake (the path)" Quran 2:26

Now think, how many got mislead by the Parable of "Dead" and "alive"

 
Old 03-11-2016, 12:47 PM   #5
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true trueee ....

recently I read about a theory by a very well known Persian thinker (still living in Iran).
He is a Muslim and yet he has said that all Ayahs in Quran about The Day of Judgment, Resurrection and other matters of that day must be looked only from symbolic point of view.

he has said that just like the dream of the Pharaoh in time of Joseph, of seven thin cows eating seven fat cows, and Joseph's dream about moon and stars worshiping the sun, the Ayah's in Quran about the Day of Judgment must be interpreted as one interprets a very symbolic dream.

this is a very interesting ideas by a Muslim thinker in an extremely Islamic country.
 
Old 03-11-2016, 05:19 PM   #6
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"He Who is the Dayspring of Truth is, no doubt, fully capable of rescuing from such remoteness wayward souls and of causing them to draw nigh unto His court and attain His Presence. “If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people.” His purpose, however, is to enable the pure in spirit and the detached in heart to ascend, by virtue of their own innate powers, unto the shores of the Most Great Ocean, that thereby they who seek the Beauty of the All-Glorious may be distinguished and separated from the wayward and perverse. Thus hath it been ordained by the all- glorious and resplendent Pen.…"

Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah
 
Old 03-14-2016, 06:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryamr View Post
true trueee ....

recently I read about a theory by a very well known Persian thinker (still living in Iran).
He is a Muslim and yet he has said that all Ayahs in Quran about The Day of Judgment, Resurrection and other matters of that day must be looked only from symbolic point of view.

he has said that just like the dream of the Pharaoh in time of Joseph, of seven thin cows eating seven fat cows, and Joseph's dream about moon and stars worshiping the sun, the Ayah's in Quran about the Day of Judgment must be interpreted as one interprets a very symbolic dream.

this is a very interesting ideas by a Muslim thinker in an extremely Islamic country.
What about Rumi?

So, Rumi sits and ponders. The ayat from Al Baqarah (The Cow), QS:2:260 says: “Behold! Abraham said: “My Lord! Show me how Thou givest life to the dead.” He said: “Dost thou not then believe?” He said: “Yea! but to satisfy My own undertaking.” He said: “Take four birds; Tame them to turn to thee; put a portion of them on every hill and call to them: They will come to thee (Flying) with speed. Then know that Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.”

Then, Rumi interprets and writes:

O you who are the Abraham of the age,
kill these four birds that beset the Way,
.....

If you want human beings to attain to eternal life,
Then cut off the heads of these four loathsome and evil birds,
.
.
.

They are allegories for the four pernicious qualities in human beings.
The duck is greed.
The rooster is lust.
The peacock is superiority.
And the crow is worldly desire.

https://mrumia.wordpress.com/2006/11/11/the-four-birds/


What Rumi says, is, the Four Birds are symbols for 4 bad qualities. Once we kill these 4 bad qualities, God raises us from death to eternal life.
 
Old 03-14-2016, 07:34 PM   #8
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Solomon and the Gnat (trans. E.H. Whinfield)

A gnat came in from the garden and fields,
And called on Solomon for justice,
Saying, "O Solomon, you extend your equity
Over demons and the sons of Adam and fairies.
Fish and fowl dwell under the shelter of your justice;
Where is the oppressed one whom your mercy has not ought?
Grant me redress, for I am much afflicted,
Being cut off from my garden and meadow haunts."

Then Solomon replied, "O seeker of redress,
Tell me from whom do you desire redress?
Who is the oppressor, who, puffed up with arrogance,
Has oppressed you and smitten your face?"

The gnat replied, "He from whom I seek redress is the Wind,
'Tis he who has emitted the smoke of oppression at me;
Through his oppression I am in a grievous strait,
Through him I drink blood with parched lips!"

Solomon replied to him, "O sweet-voiced one,
You must hear the command of God with all your heart.
God has commanded me saying, 'O dispenser of justice,
Never hear one party without the other!"
Till both parties comes into the presence,
The truth is never made plain to the judge."

When the Wind heard the summons, it came swiftly,
And the gnat instantly took flight.
In like manner the seekers of God's presence-seat, -
When God appears, those seekers vanish.
Though that union is life eternal,
Yet at first that life is annihilation.
 
Old 03-15-2016, 01:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvestigateTruth View Post
What about Rumi?

So, Rumi sits and ponders. The ayat from Al Baqarah (The Cow), QS:2:260 says: “Behold! Abraham said: “My Lord! Show me how Thou givest life to the dead.” He said: “Dost thou not then believe?” He said: “Yea! but to satisfy My own undertaking.” He said: “Take four birds; Tame them to turn to thee; put a portion of them on every hill and call to them: They will come to thee (Flying) with speed. Then know that Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.”

Then, Rumi interprets and writes:

O you who are the Abraham of the age,
kill these four birds that beset the Way,
.....

If you want human beings to attain to eternal life,
Then cut off the heads of these four loathsome and evil birds,
.
.
.

They are allegories for the four pernicious qualities in human beings.
The duck is greed.
The rooster is lust.
The peacock is superiority.
And the crow is worldly desire.

https://mrumia.wordpress.com/2006/11/11/the-four-birds/


What Rumi says, is, the Four Birds are symbols for 4 bad qualities. Once we kill these 4 bad qualities, God raises us from death to eternal life.


YES... that is EXACTLY true. and in many places Rumi says that The Day Of Resurrection for each person happens in "here and now"; that is it is possible that we can wake up from deep sleep of the soul and be awakened to a new life.
it is very interesting how some people yeeeaaarrrrsss ago, have discovered these deep matters.
 
Old 03-15-2016, 01:47 AM   #10
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Posts: 1,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
Solomon and the Gnat (trans. E.H. Whinfield)

A gnat came in from the garden and fields,
And called on Solomon for justice,
Saying, "O Solomon, you extend your equity
Over demons and the sons of Adam and fairies.
Fish and fowl dwell under the shelter of your justice;
Where is the oppressed one whom your mercy has not ought?
Grant me redress, for I am much afflicted,
Being cut off from my garden and meadow haunts."

Then Solomon replied, "O seeker of redress,
Tell me from whom do you desire redress?
Who is the oppressor, who, puffed up with arrogance,
Has oppressed you and smitten your face?"

The gnat replied, "He from whom I seek redress is the Wind,
'Tis he who has emitted the smoke of oppression at me;
Through his oppression I am in a grievous strait,
Through him I drink blood with parched lips!"

Solomon replied to him, "O sweet-voiced one,
You must hear the command of God with all your heart.
God has commanded me saying, 'O dispenser of justice,
Never hear one party without the other!"
Till both parties comes into the presence,
The truth is never made plain to the judge."

When the Wind heard the summons, it came swiftly,
And the gnat instantly took flight.
In like manner the seekers of God's presence-seat, -
When God appears, those seekers vanish.
Though that union is life eternal,
Yet at first that life is annihilation.
Dear Rumi
 
Old 03-15-2016, 04:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryamr View Post


YES... that is EXACTLY true. and in many places Rumi says that The Day Of Resurrection for each person happens in "here and now"; that is it is possible that we can wake up from deep sleep of the soul and be awakened to a new life.
it is very interesting how some people yeeeaaarrrrsss ago, have discovered these deep matters.
It does not surprise me that ancient people had so much knowledge. They were simple times, living from day to day with no modern distractions
 
Old 03-15-2016, 11:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AidanK View Post
It does not surprise me that ancient people had so much knowledge. They were simple times, living from day to day with no modern distractions
well, that MAY be true. yet modernism is not always a hindrance in the way of truth. this same modern technology of Internet made me familiar with the faith and it gave me the opportunity to investigate about it. in fact in all times and under all conditions, the important matter is how we chose to live; do we chose to keep our eyes always open or to merge with all kinds of superstitions?

in the ancient years in Iran, like in time of Rumi, when it had still been the dispensation of Islam, there had been people who had believed only in the surface of things. people like Rumi had been rare even in the old days
 
Old 03-16-2016, 06:51 PM   #13
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From: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryamr View Post


YES... that is EXACTLY true. and in many places Rumi says that The Day Of Resurrection for each person happens in "here and now"; that is it is possible that we can wake up from deep sleep of the soul and be awakened to a new life.
it is very interesting how some people yeeeaaarrrrsss ago, have discovered these deep matters.
Indeed, Day of Resurrection had come many times. There is another Terminology in Holy Books for the Day of Resurrection, or the Last Day. It is called the Last Hour! Now, see, how in Christian Scriptures clearly was announced that the Last Hour had come:

"Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour." 1 John 2:18
 
Old 10-05-2016, 10:28 AM   #14
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From: England
Posts: 73
I believe and I Preach bodily and literal Resurrection of save and good people,, Jesus said " He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive." Luke 20:28

Muhammad said " And they say: What! when we have become lost in the earth, shall we then certainly be in a new creation? Nay! they are disbelievers in the meeting of their Lord. Say: The angel of death who is given charge of you shall cause you to die, then to your Lord you shall be brought back" (Quran 32:10-11)
 
Old 10-05-2016, 12:45 PM   #15
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Paweł, are you aware the unwritten laws of internet forum etiquette generally frown on replying to old threads and bumping them back up to the top of the list without good reason??

You didn't even really respond to anyone here, which means you could have just as well have started a new thread on the subject rather then necroing this one.
 
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