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Old 07-05-2016, 03:44 PM   #1
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Ghulam Ahmad

I wanted to start a conversation but I see this has already been done. Apologies

Last edited by AidanK; 07-05-2016 at 03:51 PM.
 
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Old 07-06-2016, 02:19 AM   #2
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I have searched and have found some previous threads about Ghulam Ahmed and the Ahmediyya Movement but some of them seem very long and I am unable to read them at the moment. I will go over them soon. However, here I would like to say somethings about Ghulam Ahmed that some may find useful.


In March 1882, Mirza Sahib assigned himself of being a mujadid (مجدد) based on the Hadith: “Verily Allah sends to this Ummah at the head of every one hundred years someone who will renew the Deen for it.” (By the way, based on this very Hadith, the fourth Imam of Ahl-e-Sunnah, Ahmed Ibn Hambal, considered Imam Shafi'i to be the mujadid of the second 100 years after the Prophet Muhammad, pbuh, passed.) In 1885 he had it created for him a written poster of his claim, had it translated in English, and then sent it to all parts of the world to kings, ministers and religious leaders urging them to find the truth of Islam by coming to him. [for reference lookup Sisila-e-Ahmediyya (authored by Sahibzada Mirza Bashir Ahmed), Page 20 -- سلسلہ احمدیہ - تصنیف صاحبزادہ مرزا بشیر احمد - صفحہ ٢٠]. In 1889 he started the process of taking allegiance from people as their mujadid.

An Ahmedi historian, Sheikh Abdul Qadir, writes: "1890 ke aakhir tak...app apne puranay aqiday per qaim rahay aur aam musalmano ki tarhan Hazrat Masih Nasiri ko jasd-e-ansari ke sath asman per mantay aur samajhtay rahay. -- Uptil the end of 1890...he (Mirza sahib) upheld and believed in his old opinion, like mainstream Muslims, that Prophet Jesus, with his bodily elements is in the skies" (for reference lookup Hayat-e-Tayyaba, Page75 -- حیات طیبہ ص ٧٥). In 1891 Mirza Sahib in Magazines named Tohze al-Maraim and Fatah al-Islam claimed that he is Jesus and wrote: Masih Ibn Mariam Rasoolullah faut ho chuka hai aur uske rang main wada ke muafiq tu aaya hai -- The Prophet of Allah, Jesus the son of Mary, has passed away and in His image you have been sent in accordance to the Promise." (for reference lookup Tazkara, Page 186-187 -- تذکرہ ص ١٨٦-١٨٧). After his claim he was vehemently criticized by mainstream Muslims. And to defend his claim Mirza Sahib had to write and speak volumes.

A serious complication with the claim of Mirza Sahib to be Jesus was that according to hadith, traditions, predictions and the unanimous belief of all other Muslim sects, Imam Mehdi (in his youth) had to reveal himself, before the second coming of Jesus. Imam Mehdi had to announce and foretell the second coming of Jesus and make the conditions and people ready for the second coming of Jesus. So, it was necessary that before the proclamation as Jesus, Jesus himself gives his allegiance to Imam Mehdi and then, afterwards, proclaim to be the second coming of Jesus likewise as Prophet Jesus had given his allegiance to Prophet Yahya. In light of this Mirza Sahib claimed to be Imam Mehdi. Keep in mind that being Imam Mehdi is his third consecutive claim. He based the claim of being both Mehdi and Jesus on the hadith: "There is no Mahdi except the Messiah." (By the way, this hadith is not considered to be sound by all other sects but never-mind.)

Then, afterwards, he claimed Prophecy. He explained this huge and overwhelming claim by saying "Ye ke Allah Talah ne app ko an-hazrat (saw) ki itbah main aur aap ke laey hue deen ki khidmat keliye aap kay zal-o-barooz (ظل و بروز) honey ki hesiyat main nabowat ki khilat pohanchai hai -- This that God Almighty has sent me as a follower of Muhammad (pbuh) for serving the religion that He (pbuh) brought and as His (pbuh) sub-ordinate has bestowed me with Prophet-hood." (for reference lookup Silsila-e-Ahmediyya, Page 243 -- سلسلہ احمدیہ صفحہ ٢٤٣).

There has never been any Prophet or Messenger who claimed different things as time went by. Even if they did, their claims were not progressive in nature. None of them claimed to be a distinguished cleric, then afterwards a Prophet. The claims of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed progressed exactly in accordance with his popularity and support. He would claim to be something and when he would establish a reasonable support for that he would in turn make a more potent claim about himself and so on. In fact the claims that have been mentioned above are only some of them, Tahir ul Qadri describes nearly ten claims in his book on Ghulam Ahmed. Mirza Sahib claimed to be a Mujadid. Then a Muhaddis and Mulhim. Then he said that I am not Masih Ibn e Mariam (Jesus son of Mary) but I am just like him (maseel-e Masih). Then he openly claimed to be Masih Ibn Mariam (Jesus).Then he claimed to be Mehdi as well as Masih. Then he claimed to be bestowed with zil-o-baroz nabuwat. Also, why his views changed regarding the passing away of Prophet Jesus, as he first believed - like other Muslims - that Prophet Jesus didn't die and was taken into the skies and then his views changed and he said that Prophet Jesus had passed away in Kashmir and he is the second coming of Jesus? Was his knowledge not perfect before? How can a Prophet first say something and then afterwards change his own beliefs and say something different?

Ghulam Ahmed attested in one of his own books that he had read the books of Baha'ullah and that very much explains why some people find some of the Ahmedi claims to be astonishingly similar to the Baha'i teachings. Surprisingly some of the claims of Ghulam Ahmed were different in the beginning and then gradually they came in conformity to Baha'i explanations which clearly indicated that he molded some of his claims according to Baha'i teachings. (I can provide a lot of information regarding this if anyone requires it.)

There are a substantial number of inconsistencies that one can find like these in the Ahmedi claims.

Last edited by arcane; 07-07-2016 at 12:36 AM.
 
Old 07-06-2016, 03:23 AM   #3
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Among many others, a concern I have regarding the texts of Ghulam Ahmed is as follows:

Every successive divine book revealed testified and served as a guardian of the preceding divine books. For instance, in Qur'an God said: "O you who have believed, believe in Allah and His Messenger and the Book that He sent down upon His Messenger and the Scripture which He sent down before. And whoever disbelieves in Allah, His angels, His books, His messengers, and the Last Day has certainly gone far astray (An-Nisa 136)."

Ghulam Ahmed, on the other hand, in his Kalama-e Wahi contradicted this Divine Sunnah of Allah and Divine Sunnah of Prophets by saying this about Gospel: “… thus the faulty, failed and vulgar teachings of Gospel shall soon be collapsed and destroyed. And so for a short time which was less than 600 years, these teachings (of Gospel) were given to Jews. But as it was essentially (fil’waqeh) not based on truth and wisdom so the perfect book (he is referring to Quran as the perfect book I guess) of God was rapidly revealed and rid the world of this vulgar teaching (Gospel). –– Gharz Injeel ki naqis aur nakam aur behooda taleem ko jald-tar neest-o nabood kiya jaye ga. Lehaza aik muktasar zamanay keliye jo chay-soo bars se ziyada na tha ye taleem yahoodiyon ko di gaey. Magar kyun-ke filwakeh haq aur hiqmat pe mabni nahi thi isliye Khuda Talah ki kamil kitab ne jald nazool farma ker dunia ko is behooda taleem se nijat bakhshi.” [For reference look up Tableeg-e Risalat, Jild Punjum (Volume 5), Safhat (Pages) 75,74]

Not just this, Ghulam Ahmed saying that Gospel was revealed just for Jews is also against divine rulings. As Quran is not just revealed for Muslim but all humanity so were Gospel and all other divine books. The same is the case with the teachings of Baha'i Faith. They are revealed for all of humanity. The Quran mentions Torah and Gospel as "هدى للناس" i.e. as guidance for mankind (من قبل هدى للناس وانزل الفرقان ان الذين كفروا بايات الله لهم عذاب شديد والله عزيز ذو انتقام). Look up the third and fourth verse of Surah Al-Imran:
Quote:
"He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel. Before, as guidance for the people. And He revealed the Qur'an. Indeed, those who disbelieve in the verses of Allah will have a severe punishment, and Allah is exalted in Might, the Owner of Retribution."

Last edited by arcane; 07-07-2016 at 12:40 AM.
 
Old 07-06-2016, 04:45 AM   #4
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The Quran speaks about not getting divided into sects in many verses. Division among Muslims was strongly discouraged and strictly forbidden by the Quran. Thus it is said in the Quran (3:103):
Quote:
And hold firmly to the rope of Allah all together and do not become divided. And remember the favor of Allah upon you - when you were enemies and He brought your hearts together and you became, by His favor, brothers. And you were on the edge of a pit of the Fire, and He saved you from it. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be guided.
During the British Rule in United India (India+Pakistan+Bangladesh) there happened a census. Mirza Ghulam Ahmed proudly got himself and his followers registered as a sect of Islam as "Ahmedi Firqa-e Islam". It is a clear-cut violation of Islam itself.

Quote:
And indeed this, your religion, is one religion, and I am your Lord, so fear Me. But the people divided their religion among them into sects - each faction, in what it has, rejoicing. Quran (23:52-53)
 
Old 08-02-2017, 11:05 PM   #5
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Mirzā Ghulām Ahmad (Urdu: مرزا غلام احمد‎; 13 February 1835 – 26 May 1908) was an Indian religious leader and the founder of the Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam. He claimed to have been divinely appointed as the promised Messiah and Mahdi, in the likeness of Jesus (mathīl-iʿIsā), in fulfillment of Islam's eschatological prophecies, as well as the Mujaddid (centennial reviver) of the 14th Islamic century.
 
Old 08-04-2017, 05:54 AM   #6
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Strength of Holt Spirit

From blog -
https://nazarethanbahaifaith.wordpre.../?preview=true

Mirza Gulam Ahmad, Baha’u'llah are "metaphysical" return of Jesus, they aren't bodily coming of Jesus

Spiritual not bodily coming of Jesus Christ
Baha’u'llah had atributes of Jesus, Muhammad, Ali, Mahdi, Avatar Kalki, Maitreya

" The excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see theglory of the Lord... [when] the ransomed of the Lord [the Jews] shall return."-Isaiah 35

"I am God... calling a ravenous birdfrom the east, the man who executeth my judgment from a far country."-Isaiah 46

"Sharon shall be a fold of flocks and the valley of Achora place for the herds to lie down in for my people that have sought me."-Isaiah 65

"In that day also he (the Promised One) shall come even to thee from Assyria, and from the fortified cities, and from the fortress even to the river , and from sea to sea , and from mountain to mountain..." Micah 7:12 

Mirza Gulam Ahmad had atributes of mahdi and Avatar Kalki

“I am the Krishna - King of the Aryas - who was to appear in the latter days.. " (TEOI, V4, P83)

Jesus prophecies about yourself that he came in apostles lifetime
Jesus didn't lie, he had came as "holy spirit"  - Comforter who gives inspiration to "manifestations of God"

Matthew 24:33-36 " 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[a
]is near, right at the door.34Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away"

Source - Paweł Sz.
 
Old 08-04-2017, 06:05 AM   #7
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Manifestations of God mean in Nazarethan Baha'i Faith - they are fallible, not prophets but saints and reformers (another that in Baha'i World Faith)
 
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