Bahai Forums

Go Back   Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Beliefs

Baha'i Beliefs Baha'i Beliefs - Unity of God, the Unity of Religion, and the Unity of Humanity


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-25-2017, 08:22 PM   #1
Member
 
Joined: Mar 2011
From: In the mountains of Oregon
Posts: 34
Did You Pay the Price

Jesus has purchased the entire human race out from the marketplace of sin’s ability to condemn the sinner ever again. Do you see why sin is no longer the issue on the table of God’s justice in this age of grace? It’s no longer the issue in the judicial mind of God who received the payment. In Romans 3:25-26 we find that our magnificent redemption demanded a monumental price. The cost...was the death...and the shed blood...of God’s only begotten son Jesus, (the second Adam - Genesis 3:15). So justification, believing in what Jesus accomplished is a requirement in order to be justified or declared righteous. Who was it that purchased you, the sinner, out of the market place of sin through his shed blood? Did you pay the price to purchase you out of this issue called sins, or did Jesus pay the price? Look at the receipt shown in 1 Timothy 2:6. 


Was God only partially satisfied with the payment Jesus made for sins? Or was God fully satisfied where the payment made by his son for the sins of the world are concerned? When you think of Propitiation, think of payment satisfaction, because propitiation means just that, full satisfaction. Not only did Jesus cry out: “It is finished” from the tree of crucifixion, meaning his death for sins, his payment for sins was being brought to a conclusion, he could make that statement because he had fully accomplished what he had set out to do. Of course, that doesn’t mean that the world Jesus redeemed will accept the Redeemer, or the truth of their redemption for that matter so they can be placed into the Savior, Heaven worthy, at that point. The key word expression in connection with Paul’s teaching on Redemption: It would be delivered through ransom; deliverance through a ransom price, 1 Timothy 2:6.
 
Join Baha'i Forums


Welcome to Baha'i Forums, an open Baha'i Faith community! We welcome everyone and the community is free to join so register today and become part of the Baha'i Forums family!


Old 03-26-2017, 01:22 AM   #2
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
tonyfish58's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: Normanton Far North Queensland
Posts: 3,915
Hello hope you are well and happy.

Life is always interesting and great to having been given the Bounty to Live it, only given by the Sacrifices of God's chosen Messengers.

Regards Tony
 
Old 03-26-2017, 08:28 AM   #3
Member
 
Joined: Mar 2011
From: In the mountains of Oregon
Posts: 34
When the circumstance of the moment is a happy circumstance, lets say things are going well health wise...things are going well for the children, grandchildren...the monthly bills are paid, the job is secure. We know the details of life. When everything is well on the home front that’s when we can say a person might very well be happy. Of course, happiness is fleeting. Circumstances can go south. If joy were dependent upon the situation at hand, it would be uncertain as a match lit on a windy day. The joy Paul is talking about has no relationship to the transient nature of life. So the believers attitude needn’t to become victim to uncertainty or adversity. Joy is a trust issue. Joy for a believer is a state of mind independent of surrounding circumstances. Rejoicing is the exhibit of that inter-state of mind.
 
Old 03-26-2017, 12:14 PM   #4
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
tonyfish58's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: Normanton Far North Queensland
Posts: 3,915
Quote:
Originally Posted by newnature View Post
When the circumstance of the moment is a happy circumstance, lets say things are going well health wise...things are going well for the children, grandchildren...the monthly bills are paid, the job is secure. We know the details of life. When everything is well on the home front that’s when we can say a person might very well be happy. Of course, happiness is fleeting. Circumstances can go south. If joy were dependent upon the situation at hand, it would be uncertain as a match lit on a windy day. The joy Paul is talking about has no relationship to the transient nature of life. So the believers attitude needn’t to become victim to uncertainty or adversity. Joy is a trust issue. Joy for a believer is a state of mind independent of surrounding circumstances. Rejoicing is the exhibit of that inter-state of mind.
Indeed it is;

"Praised be God that you have received the bounty of true joy, a spiritual condition that belongs to those who, irrespective of their material and social circumstances, strive to draw ever nearer to God and to understand and promote His Word; who are concerned with the prosperity of all people; who tread selflessly the path of justice and equity; and who allow no impediment, not even oppression or imprisonment, to deprive them of this inner joy. It is this state of true joy that stirs the heart, makes the spirit soar, increases human powers, strengthens the mind, creates hope, and kindles the flame of longing to take purposeful action for the common good. So it is that, for Bahá’ís, bringing joy to the hearts is among the most praiseworthy of deeds." (Universal House of Justice to the Bahá’ís of Iran, Naw Ruz 2015)

Regards Tony
 
Old 03-26-2017, 12:27 PM   #5
Member
 
Joined: Mar 2011
From: In the mountains of Oregon
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfish58 View Post
Indeed it is;

"Praised be God that you have received the bounty of true joy, a spiritual condition that belongs to those who, irrespective of their material and social circumstances, strive to draw ever nearer to God and to understand and promote His Word; who are concerned with the prosperity of all people; who tread selflessly the path of justice and equity; and who allow no impediment, not even oppression or imprisonment, to deprive them of this inner joy. It is this state of true joy that stirs the heart, makes the spirit soar, increases human powers, strengthens the mind, creates hope, and kindles the flame of longing to take purposeful action for the common good. So it is that, for Bahá’ís, bringing joy to the hearts is among the most praiseworthy of deeds." (Universal House of Justice to the Bahá’ís of Iran, Naw Ruz 2015)

Regards Tony
Joy is directly related to our thinking, this is why Paul redirects our thinking in Philippians, who’s thought had become fleshy oriented. Attitude always precedes action, Paul is giving us cause to think on common ground. How can we rejoice without giving some thought as to what we have to rejoice about. We all have worries and care, but worry never robs tomorrow of it’s sorrow, it only saps today of it’s joy. When we pray, how many of us can be totally content to rest solely in the fact that God knows what is best for us, and then trust him in doing that very thing, even in difficult circumstances, even when we rather things turn out differently, even in the complete absence of what we often call material or physical blessing. God actually desires that we take our cares and concerns to him. It is the avenue that God has given us believers that we might express our trust in him, but he DID NOT give us prayer as an avenue by which we can direct his hand or shape his will. God gave us prayer as an avenue for the expression of our trusting him no matter the circumstance, no matter the outcome of that circumstance. God gave us prayer for the purpose of our peace, he knew how disparate a human mind would need peace. Through prayer a believer is able to release to God their fears, desires, inter-most anxieties while at the same time acknowledging to God that they trust God no matter the outcome of those situations.
 
Old 03-26-2017, 01:29 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2013
From: forest falls california
Posts: 1,770
Salvation

Quote:
Originally Posted by newnature View Post
Jesus has purchased the entire human race out from the marketplace of sin’s ability to condemn the sinner ever again. Do you see why sin is no longer the issue on the table of God’s justice in this age of grace? ... So justification... Look at the receipt shown in 1 Timothy 2:6. 


Was God only partially satisfied with the payment Jesus made for sins? ... The key word expression in connection with Paul’s teaching on Redemption: It would be delivered through ransom; deliverance through a ransom price, 1 Timothy 2:6.
Dear Newnature,
Baha'is are truly not that concerned or obsessed with their own individual salvation. That's a given. What we are concerned with, really, is the condition of humanity. "Blessed is he that preferreth his brother before himself."

Most Baha'is I know grew up Christian and all Baha'is believe in Jesus the Christ, Who said: "Seek, and ye shall find."

I want to share with you what is known as "The Tablet of the true seeker."

. "O My brother! When a true seeker determineth to take the step of search in the path leading unto the knowledge of the Ancient of Days, he must, before all else, cleanse his heart, which is the seat of the revelation of the inner mysteries of God, from the obscuring dust of all acquired knowledge, and the allusions of the embodiments of satanic fancy. He must purge his breast, which is the sanctuary of the abiding love of the Beloved, of every defilement, and sanctify his soul from all that pertaineth to water and clay, from all shadowy and ephemeral attachments.

. He must so cleanse his heart that no remnant of either love or hate may linger therein, lest that love blindly incline him to error, or that hate repel him away from the truth. Even as thou dost witness in this Day how most of the people, because of such love and hate, are bereft of the immortal Face, have strayed far from the Embodiments of the Divine mysteries, and, shepherdless, are roaming through the wilderness of oblivion and error.

. That seeker must, at all times, put his trust in God, must renounce the peoples of the earth, must detach himself from the world of dust, and cleave unto Him Who is the Lord of Lords. He must never seek to exalt himself above any one, must wash away from the tablet of his heart every trace of pride and vain-glory, must cling unto patience and resignation, observe silence and refrain from idle talk. For the tongue is a smoldering fire, and excess of speech a deadly poison. Material fire consumeth the body, whereas the fire of the tongue devoureth both heart and soul. The force of the former lasteth but for a time, whilst the effects of the latter endureth a century.

. That seeker should, also, regard backbiting as grievous error, and keep himself aloof from its dominion, inasmuch as backbiting quencheth the light of the heart, and extinguisheth the life of the soul. He should be content with little, and be freed from all inordinate desire. He should treasure the companionship of them that have renounced the world, and regard avoidance of boastful and worldly people a precious benefit.

. At the dawn of every day he should commune with God, and, with all his soul, persevere in the quest of his Beloved. He should consume every wayward thought with the flame of His loving mention, and, with the swiftness of lightning, pass by all else save Him. He should succor the dispossessed, and never withhold his favor from the destitute. He should show kindness to animals, how much more unto his fellow-man, to him who is endowed with the power of utterance.

. He should not hesitate to offer up his life for his Beloved, nor allow the censure of the people to turn him away from the Truth. He should not wish for others that which he doth not wish for himself, nor promise that which he doth not fulfil. With all his heart he should avoid fellowship with evil-doers, and pray for the remission of their sins.

. He should forgive the sinful, and never despise his low estate, for none knoweth what his own end shall be. How often hath a sinner attained, at the hour of death, to the essence of faith, and, quaffing the immortal draught, hath taken his flight unto the Concourse on high! And how often hath a devout believer, at the hour of his soul’s ascension, been so changed as to fall into the nethermost fire!

. Our purpose in revealing these convincing and weighty utterances is to impress upon the seeker that he should regard all else beside God as transient, and count all things save Him, Who is the Object of all adoration, as utter nothingness.
These are among the attributes of the exalted, and constitute the hall-mark of the spiritually-minded. They have already been mentioned in connection with the requirements of the wayfarers that tread the path of Positive Knowledge.

. When the detached wayfarer and sincere seeker hath fulfilled these essential conditions, then and only then can he be called a true seeker. Whensoever he hath fulfilled the conditions implied in the verse: “Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.”

. Only when the lamp of search, of earnest striving, of longing desire, of passionate devotion, of fervid love, of rapture, and ecstasy, is kindled within the seeker’s heart, and the breeze of His loving-kindness is wafted upon his soul, will the darkness of error be dispelled, the mists of doubts and misgivings be dissipated, and the lights of knowledge and certitude envelop his being.

. At that hour will the Mystic Herald, bearing the joyful tidings of the Spirit, shine forth from the City of God resplendent as the morn, and, through the trumpet-blast of knowledge, will awaken the heart, the soul, and the spirit from the slumber of heedlessness. Then will the manifold favors and outpouring grace of the holy and everlasting Spirit confer such new life upon the seeker that he will find himself endowed with a new eye, a new ear, a new heart, and a new mind.

. He will contemplate the manifest signs of the universe, and will penetrate the hidden mysteries of the soul. Gazing with the eye of God, he will perceive within every atom a door that leadeth him to the stations of absolute certitude. He will discover in all things the mysteries of Divine Revelation, and the evidences of an everlasting Manifestation.

. I swear by God! Were he that treadeth the path of guidance and seeketh to scale the heights of righteousness to attain unto this glorious and exalted station, he would inhale, at a distance of a thousand leagues, the fragrance of God, and would perceive the resplendent morn of a Divine guidance rising above the Day Spring of all things. Each and every thing, however small, would be to him a revelation, leading him to his Beloved, the Object of his quest. So great shall be the discernment of this seeker that he will discriminate between truth and falsehood, even as he doth distinguish the sun from shadow.

. If in the uttermost corners of the East the sweet savors of God be wafted, he will assuredly recognize and inhale their fragrance, even though he be dwelling in the uttermost ends of the West. He will, likewise, clearly distinguish all the signs of God—His wondrous utterances, His great works, and mighty deeds—from the doings, the words and ways of men, even as the jeweler who knoweth the gem from the stone, or the man who distinguisheth the spring from autumn, and heat from cold.

. When the channel of the human soul is cleansed of all worldly and impeding attachments, it will unfailingly perceive the breath of the Beloved across immeasurable distances, and will, led by its perfume, attain and enter the City of Certitude. Therein he will discern the wonders of His ancient Wisdom, and will perceive all the hidden teachings from the rustling leaves of the Tree that flourisheth in that City. With both his inner and outer ear, he will hear from its dust the hymns of glory and praise ascending unto the Lord of Lords, and with his inner eye will he discover the mysteries of “return” and “revival.”

. How unspeakably glorious are the signs, the tokens, the revelations, and splendors which He, Who is the King of Names and Attributes, hath destined for that City! The attainment unto this City quencheth thirst without water, and kindleth the love of God without fire. Within every blade of grass are enshrined the mysteries of an inscrutable Wisdom, and upon every rose-bush a myriad nightingales pour out, in blissful rapture, their melody. Its wondrous tulips unfold the mystery of the undying Fire in the Burning Bush, and its sweet savors of holiness breathe the perfume of the Messianic Spirit. It bestoweth wealth without gold, and conferreth immortality without death. In each one of its leaves ineffable delights are treasured, and within every chamber unnumbered mysteries lie hidden.

. They that valiantly labor in quest of God, will, when once they have renounced all else but Him, be so attached and wedded unto that City, that a moment’s separation from it would to them be unthinkable. They will hearken unto infallible proofs from the Hyacinth of that assembly, and will receive the surest testimonies from the beauty of its Rose, and the melody of its Nightingale. Once in about a thousand years shall this City be renewed and readorned….

. That City is none other than the Word of God revealed in every age and dispensation. In the days of Moses it was the Pentateuch; in the days of Jesus, the Gospel; in the days of Muḥammad, the Messenger of God, the Qur’án; in this day, the Bayán; and in the Dispensation of Him Whom God will make manifest, His own Book—the Book unto which all the Books of former Dispensations must needs be referred, the Book that standeth amongst them all transcendent and supreme."

Baha'u'llah (The Glory of God)
 
Old 03-26-2017, 06:29 PM   #7
Member
 
Joined: Mar 2011
From: In the mountains of Oregon
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by dale ramsdell View Post
Dear Newnature,
Baha'is are truly not that concerned or obsessed with their own individual salvation. That's a given. What we are concerned with, really, is the condition of humanity. "Blessed is he that preferreth his brother before himself."

Most Baha'is I know grew up Christian and all Baha'is believe in Jesus the Christ, Who said: "Seek, and ye shall find."

I want to share with you what is known as "The Tablet of the true seeker."

. "O My brother! When a true seeker determineth to take the step of search in the path leading unto the knowledge of the Ancient of Days, he must, before all else, cleanse his heart, which is the seat of the revelation of the inner mysteries of God, from the obscuring dust of all acquired knowledge, and the allusions of the embodiments of satanic fancy. He must purge his breast, which is the sanctuary of the abiding love of the Beloved, of every defilement, and sanctify his soul from all that pertaineth to water and clay, from all shadowy and ephemeral attachments.

. He must so cleanse his heart that no remnant of either love or hate may linger therein, lest that love blindly incline him to error, or that hate repel him away from the truth. Even as thou dost witness in this Day how most of the people, because of such love and hate, are bereft of the immortal Face, have strayed far from the Embodiments of the Divine mysteries, and, shepherdless, are roaming through the wilderness of oblivion and error.

. That seeker must, at all times, put his trust in God, must renounce the peoples of the earth, must detach himself from the world of dust, and cleave unto Him Who is the Lord of Lords. He must never seek to exalt himself above any one, must wash away from the tablet of his heart every trace of pride and vain-glory, must cling unto patience and resignation, observe silence and refrain from idle talk. For the tongue is a smoldering fire, and excess of speech a deadly poison. Material fire consumeth the body, whereas the fire of the tongue devoureth both heart and soul. The force of the former lasteth but for a time, whilst the effects of the latter endureth a century.

. That seeker should, also, regard backbiting as grievous error, and keep himself aloof from its dominion, inasmuch as backbiting quencheth the light of the heart, and extinguisheth the life of the soul. He should be content with little, and be freed from all inordinate desire. He should treasure the companionship of them that have renounced the world, and regard avoidance of boastful and worldly people a precious benefit.

. At the dawn of every day he should commune with God, and, with all his soul, persevere in the quest of his Beloved. He should consume every wayward thought with the flame of His loving mention, and, with the swiftness of lightning, pass by all else save Him. He should succor the dispossessed, and never withhold his favor from the destitute. He should show kindness to animals, how much more unto his fellow-man, to him who is endowed with the power of utterance.

. He should not hesitate to offer up his life for his Beloved, nor allow the censure of the people to turn him away from the Truth. He should not wish for others that which he doth not wish for himself, nor promise that which he doth not fulfil. With all his heart he should avoid fellowship with evil-doers, and pray for the remission of their sins.

. He should forgive the sinful, and never despise his low estate, for none knoweth what his own end shall be. How often hath a sinner attained, at the hour of death, to the essence of faith, and, quaffing the immortal draught, hath taken his flight unto the Concourse on high! And how often hath a devout believer, at the hour of his soul’s ascension, been so changed as to fall into the nethermost fire!

. Our purpose in revealing these convincing and weighty utterances is to impress upon the seeker that he should regard all else beside God as transient, and count all things save Him, Who is the Object of all adoration, as utter nothingness.
These are among the attributes of the exalted, and constitute the hall-mark of the spiritually-minded. They have already been mentioned in connection with the requirements of the wayfarers that tread the path of Positive Knowledge.

. When the detached wayfarer and sincere seeker hath fulfilled these essential conditions, then and only then can he be called a true seeker. Whensoever he hath fulfilled the conditions implied in the verse: “Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.”

. Only when the lamp of search, of earnest striving, of longing desire, of passionate devotion, of fervid love, of rapture, and ecstasy, is kindled within the seeker’s heart, and the breeze of His loving-kindness is wafted upon his soul, will the darkness of error be dispelled, the mists of doubts and misgivings be dissipated, and the lights of knowledge and certitude envelop his being.

. At that hour will the Mystic Herald, bearing the joyful tidings of the Spirit, shine forth from the City of God resplendent as the morn, and, through the trumpet-blast of knowledge, will awaken the heart, the soul, and the spirit from the slumber of heedlessness. Then will the manifold favors and outpouring grace of the holy and everlasting Spirit confer such new life upon the seeker that he will find himself endowed with a new eye, a new ear, a new heart, and a new mind.

. He will contemplate the manifest signs of the universe, and will penetrate the hidden mysteries of the soul. Gazing with the eye of God, he will perceive within every atom a door that leadeth him to the stations of absolute certitude. He will discover in all things the mysteries of Divine Revelation, and the evidences of an everlasting Manifestation.

. I swear by God! Were he that treadeth the path of guidance and seeketh to scale the heights of righteousness to attain unto this glorious and exalted station, he would inhale, at a distance of a thousand leagues, the fragrance of God, and would perceive the resplendent morn of a Divine guidance rising above the Day Spring of all things. Each and every thing, however small, would be to him a revelation, leading him to his Beloved, the Object of his quest. So great shall be the discernment of this seeker that he will discriminate between truth and falsehood, even as he doth distinguish the sun from shadow.

. If in the uttermost corners of the East the sweet savors of God be wafted, he will assuredly recognize and inhale their fragrance, even though he be dwelling in the uttermost ends of the West. He will, likewise, clearly distinguish all the signs of God—His wondrous utterances, His great works, and mighty deeds—from the doings, the words and ways of men, even as the jeweler who knoweth the gem from the stone, or the man who distinguisheth the spring from autumn, and heat from cold.

. When the channel of the human soul is cleansed of all worldly and impeding attachments, it will unfailingly perceive the breath of the Beloved across immeasurable distances, and will, led by its perfume, attain and enter the City of Certitude. Therein he will discern the wonders of His ancient Wisdom, and will perceive all the hidden teachings from the rustling leaves of the Tree that flourisheth in that City. With both his inner and outer ear, he will hear from its dust the hymns of glory and praise ascending unto the Lord of Lords, and with his inner eye will he discover the mysteries of “return” and “revival.”

. How unspeakably glorious are the signs, the tokens, the revelations, and splendors which He, Who is the King of Names and Attributes, hath destined for that City! The attainment unto this City quencheth thirst without water, and kindleth the love of God without fire. Within every blade of grass are enshrined the mysteries of an inscrutable Wisdom, and upon every rose-bush a myriad nightingales pour out, in blissful rapture, their melody. Its wondrous tulips unfold the mystery of the undying Fire in the Burning Bush, and its sweet savors of holiness breathe the perfume of the Messianic Spirit. It bestoweth wealth without gold, and conferreth immortality without death. In each one of its leaves ineffable delights are treasured, and within every chamber unnumbered mysteries lie hidden.

. They that valiantly labor in quest of God, will, when once they have renounced all else but Him, be so attached and wedded unto that City, that a moment’s separation from it would to them be unthinkable. They will hearken unto infallible proofs from the Hyacinth of that assembly, and will receive the surest testimonies from the beauty of its Rose, and the melody of its Nightingale. Once in about a thousand years shall this City be renewed and readorned….

. That City is none other than the Word of God revealed in every age and dispensation. In the days of Moses it was the Pentateuch; in the days of Jesus, the Gospel; in the days of Muḥammad, the Messenger of God, the Qur’án; in this day, the Bayán; and in the Dispensation of Him Whom God will make manifest, His own Book—the Book unto which all the Books of former Dispensations must needs be referred, the Book that standeth amongst them all transcendent and supreme."

Baha'u'llah (The Glory of God)
Paul’s the superintendent, the chief architect of the building project called the Body of the Savior. The blueprint, the plans were given to him by the risen ascended Savior. As the Savior committed to Paul the responsibility to lay this blueprint out on the table, spread it out for us so we might see what this blueprints all about. 1 Corinthians 3:11, Jesus is the foundation. No doubt about that. But Paul did not teach Jesus in the same matter that Jesus was being taught by those before Paul. The law was the blueprint for Israel’s program. Moses was the law giver. If you’re going to talk the talk you better walk the walk in the law program. Why should they observe and do all that the Pharisees bid them do, because the Pharisees according to Jesus in his earthly ministry were sitting in Moses sit. Matthew 23:3, Moses was in a very real sense the chief architect of the law program. Paul was given the blueprints for the building. Most are still trying to operate with the blueprints of another program. The Savior committed unto Paul the responsibility to lay the blueprint on the table before the work crew. So we might build in a manner worthy of reward.
 
Old 03-27-2017, 08:09 AM   #8
Minor Bloodsucker
 
gnat's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2014
From: Stockholm
Posts: 1,529
Am I the only one who has a slight feeling that the dialogue in this thread leaves a wee bit to be desired?

Best

from

gnat
 
Old 03-27-2017, 02:36 PM   #9
Lives in hope
 
AidanK's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2015
From: N Ireland
Posts: 345
New nature is a bot!!!
 
Old 03-27-2017, 04:03 PM   #10
Member
 
Joined: Mar 2011
From: In the mountains of Oregon
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by AidanK View Post
New nature is a bot!!!
Did the apostle Paul know what to pray for as he ought when he was asking God to deliver him from the thorn in his flesh? You see, had Paul known that God’s strength during the dispensation of grace is perfected in the lives of those who are weak, Paul would probably not have asked for deliverance in the first place. However, when Paul did come to understand how God was working in this dispensation, he did an abrupt about face telling us that he now took pleasure in infirmities. The believer’s patient endurance through suffering is a way of demonstrating their hope, and when their hope is put on display in the midst of their suffering that brings glory to God. The grace and strength God gives a person to endure that suffering is the strength of God he wants others to see in that person’s life. That’s when God’s strength is perfected in a believer’s life. 


While a believer seeks deliverance from suffering, God seeks devotion through suffering. Prayer was never given to change God’s perspective of a believer’s greater preference. Prayer was given to change a believer’s perspective of God’s greater purpose. God’s greater purpose was not to strengthen a believer’s faith by altering their circumstances. God’s greater purpose is to allow the believer to demonstrate their faith as they remain strong in spite of their circumstances. Prayer was never given to bring God into alignment with a believer’s wants. Prayer was given to bring a believer into alignment with God’s will. A believer can thank God, not with thanksgiving for receiving, but with thanksgiving that God is in control and that God is using the suffering circumstances in a believer’s life to perfect what God has begun in them.
 
Old 03-27-2017, 05:48 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2015
From: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 127
Newnature:

Thank you for your posts on this thread. Surely, you do appreciate the divine, ancient, and universal Reality of Jesus as that divine Intellect (Logos/Word) that was “in the beginning” and “was with God/Ton Theon” (THE GOD), “and the Word was God/theos” (divine or as God); (John 1:1). “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelled among us” (John 1:14). “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End” (Revelation 22:13). Jesus is reported to have uttered in that timeless Voice: “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was I am”, or “was I-am-who-I-am”; or “Truly, truly, I say to you, before the vitality of Abraham (biterem hayut Avraham), I was (ani hayiyati)”; (John 8:58).

Speaking of the great Sacrifice that Jesus made, Baha’u’llah proclaimed, “Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.” (Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, XXXVI)


Related to your focus – the great Sacrifice, I offer for your consideration the prayerful words spoken again by that ancient, divine, and universal Intellect: “Praise be to Thee, O Lord My God, for the wondrous revelations of Thy inscrutable decree and the manifold woes and trials Thou hast destined for Myself. At one time Thou didst deliver Me into the hands of Nimrod; at another Thou hast allowed Pharaoh’s rod to persecute Me. Thou, alone, canst estimate, through Thine all-encompassing knowledge and the operation of Thy Will, the incalculable afflictions I have suffered at their hands. Again Thou didst cast Me into the prison-cell of the ungodly, for no reason except that I was moved to whisper into the ears of the well-favored denizens of Thy Kingdom an intimation of the vision with which Thou hadst, through Thy knowledge, inspired Me, and revealed to Me its meaning through the potency of Thy might. And again Thou didst decree that I be beheaded by the sword of the infidel. Again I was crucified for having unveiled to men’s eyes the hidden gems of Thy glorious unity, for having revealed to them the wondrous signs of Thy sovereign and everlasting power. How bitter the humiliations heaped upon Me, in a subsequent age, on the plain of Karbilá! How lonely did I feel amidst Thy people! To what a state of helplessness I was reduced in that land! Unsatisfied with such indignities, My persecutors decapitated Me, and, carrying aloft My head from land to land paraded it before the gaze of the unbelieving multitude, and deposited it on the seats of the perverse and faithless. In a later age, I was suspended, and My breast was made a target to the darts of the malicious cruelty of My foes. My limbs were riddled with bullets, and My body was torn asunder. Finally, behold how, in this Day, My treacherous enemies have leagued themselves against Me, and are continually plotting to instill the venom of hate and malice into the souls of Thy servants. With all their might they are scheming to accomplish their purpose…. Grievous as is My plight, O God, My Well-Beloved, I render thanks unto Thee, and My Spirit is grateful for whatsoever hath befallen me in the path of Thy good-pleasure. I am well pleased with that which Thou didst ordain for Me, and welcome, however calamitous, the pains and sorrows I am made to suffer.” (Bahá'u'lláh, Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, XXXIX)

Thank you for the opportunity to comment. -LR
 
Old 03-28-2017, 02:42 PM   #12
Lives in hope
 
AidanK's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2015
From: N Ireland
Posts: 345
It's obvious that New nature is a bot. His input is always prosaic never conversational
 
Old 03-29-2017, 05:53 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Pete in Panama's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2012
From: Panama
Posts: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by newnature View Post
...Did the apostle Paul know what to pray for as he ought when he was asking God to deliver him from the thorn in his flesh? ...
Seriously New, has this question ever been one that you were personally curious about? Like, is it something you'd really like to hear what anyone else thinks?
Quote:
Originally Posted by AidanK View Post
It's obvious that New nature is a bot. His input is always prosaic never conversational
As Forest Gump once said, "bot is as bot does". Like, if we truly love our Creator and the Sacred Text, then we most probably end up laughing and being a lot happier the more we dwell on 'em.

New, please share w/ us something today you've been really happy w/.
 
Old 03-30-2017, 08:38 AM   #14
Member
 
Joined: Mar 2011
From: In the mountains of Oregon
Posts: 34
Believers are not to keep themselves on God’s good side, because God’s already cleansed them judicially by freely crediting them with the righteousness that belongs to his perfectly righteous son. Therefore, nothing can remove believers from God’s good side; what or who shall separate believers from the love of God? The believers calling hasn’t changed. It can not change, so believers should conduct themselves in accordance with their calling. Walk worthy in order to gain your calling. Walk worthy in order to keep your calling. That’s not the idea at all. But walk worthy of the vocation that belongs to the believer, because God has already given it to them. That’s the ideal. How can those who have been justified freely, sanctified or set apart in the last Adam, how should those believers conduct themselves? 


Their are a lot of people who believe that salvation can be lost. They believe their salvation depends upon whether or not they are right with God. This causes the people who believe it to have to play all sorts of little word games in their minds. Sin is not called sin except before salvation, but after salvation, their sins becomes something different. It becomes faults, mistakes, accidents, misunderstandings, a back-slide. One can never be quite sure where, or when, the line is crossed from one to the other. You can see how self-justification has a heavy role to play in the to be made sinless definition of sanctification. Unfortunately, the things that are allowed of self are seldom tolerated in others. 


Should the believer not be grateful to know that their salvation depends not upon the amount of sin they lay on the altar of sacrifice, but upon the fact that Jesus took all of their sins and he became their sacrifice? That’s different. There is a tremendous difference in the two. The believer needs to understand that the moral choice of good and bad does not disappear, God does not take it away whether it be at the point of their belief, or, at a point subsequent to their belief. The moral choice of good and bad remains right where it has always been to battle against the new identity and that battle take place between the ears. Satan’s ministers of righteousness use the word reform, they are all about reformed doing and commitments, but they have gotten it wrong according to the apostle Paul. It’s all about transformed thinking. Reformation would be a work of the believer for God, but transformation is entirely a work of God in the believer.
 
Reply

  Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Beliefs

Tags
pay, price



Thread Tools
Display Modes



Facebook @bahaiforums RSS


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2006 - 2017 Bahai Forums. All rights reserved.