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Old 06-29-2017, 02:46 PM   #1
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Question Why do Bahá'ís believe "Bahá'u'lláh" was the one who was promised in the Bayán?

I am not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I am looking into both sides of this issue, and the Bahá'ís I've asked this to haven't given me much of an answer so far :/

What are your scriptural proofs (from the Bayán) and historical proofs that make you sure of this belief?

Thanks!
 
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Old 06-29-2017, 09:45 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherileex View Post
I am not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I am looking into both sides of this issue, and the Bahá'ís I've asked this to haven't given me much of an answer so far :/
Perhaps you should first share how those Baha'is answered your question. You do not want to rehash the same answers, right? Second, perhaps you should share what you already know about the topic. We cannot read your mind and determine where you currently are in your studies.
 
Old 06-30-2017, 10:36 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherileex View Post
I am not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I am looking into both sides of this issue, and the Bahá'ís I've asked this to haven't given me much of an answer so far :/

What are your scriptural proofs (from the Bayán) and historical proofs that make you sure of this belief?

Thanks!
Specifically from the Bayan??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arabic Bayan 6:15
In the year Nine ye shall attain unto all good.
That's the Bayanic verse I see most commonly used, with the Year 9 on the Babi Calendar being the year of Baha'u'llah's first vision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Persian Bayan 5:3
And the first month is the Month of the Point, round which the (18) months of the Living revolve; its similitude amongst the months is as the Sun, while the rest of the months are like Mirrors, and it is named by God the month of Bahá, seeing that the splendour (Bahá) of all the months is included in it. For God hath set it apart for Him whom God shall manifest
The Bab named the month of Baha after Him Whom God Will Make Manifest.

Finally this one, emphasis added

Quote:
Originally Posted by Persian Bayan 2:8
He whom he shall manifest is the first being whom he created, and any mention of his Heart refers to his heart. Both he and his heart were created by him from all eternity, God was Lord with none over whom to exercise his Lordship; from eternity God was a divinity with none to worship him as such; from eternity, God was powerful, was none over whom to exercise his power; from eternity, God was knowing, with none whom he might know; from eternity God was single, with none to be numerated besides him. These last words, "from eternity, God was single, with to be enumerated besides him" apply to the time when, in the revelation of him whom God shall manifest the number of unity (i.e. 19) will have placed a faith in him and made their hearts tokens of his singleness (wahdaniyyat) - none shall be enumerated save them. All (other) names and attributes are the same. Do not gaze upon the limitations, for from all eternity, God was single.
This quote mentions that Him Whom God shall manifest in the number of unity. Unity, in Arabic, being Wahid, which has the numerical value of "19", the year 19 on the Babi Calendar being the year of Baha'u'llah's proclamation of his station.

Last edited by Walrus; 06-30-2017 at 10:44 AM.
 
Old 07-01-2017, 11:53 PM   #4
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The Kitab-i-Badi apparently addresses this specifically, but has not yet been officially translated (seeing as we don't have officia English translations of the Bab's texts it wouldn't be a very productive excercise).
 
Old 07-02-2017, 11:16 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cherileex View Post
I am not sure if this is the right place to post this, but I am looking into both sides of this issue, and the Bahá'ís I've asked this to haven't given me much of an answer so far :/

What are your scriptural proofs (from the Bayán) and historical proofs that make you sure of this belief?

Thanks!
God will be come to save world as messiah Ben Joseph, God will be resurrect followers of Righteousness and he will punish unrighteousness people at Judgement Day [literal]

https://nazarethanbahaifaith.wordpress.com/

For me personally Baha’u'llah ist reformer not prophet, but his claims about "second coming" is truth, first for you that tidings will be strange, but messiah had come not only on clouds but in spiritual way as the same Jesus, but for new name Bahá'u'lláh, in Oseah is written that messiah has come by "sea way" in Akko, Baha’u'llah and Jesus are no last messiah, they are both "messiah Ben davod" , I wait also for messiah Ben Joseph, Joseph means "rejected" - world rejected Unity of God, and God alone come to them, this suffering world to save "noble" people - that is view of Nazarethan Baha'i Faith

Last edited by Babism; 07-02-2017 at 11:26 PM.
 
Old 07-03-2017, 04:38 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
God will be come to save world as messiah Ben Joseph
<SNIP>
Obviously, if you know anything about the Baha'i faith, you'll know that this is not official Baha'i teaching. But in case you didn't...that's not the official Baha'i teaching. Nothing like it, actually....
 
Old 07-03-2017, 01:01 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Scribe View Post
Obviously, if you know anything about the Baha'i faith, you'll know that this is not official Baha'i teaching. But in case you didn't...that's not the official Baha'i teaching. Nothing like it, actually....
That is point of view of Nazarethan Bahaism but NOT Bahaism, Baha'i faith disbelieve in judgment day and literal Resurrection, but in "Nazarethan" branch of Bahaism these doctrines are based of faith
 
Old 07-06-2017, 04:58 AM   #8
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Greetings Cherileex,

I was an independent Bábí before becoming a Bahá'í. After spending time in the Middle East, Turkey and Cyprus, I was granted the opportunity to meet with various Bábí groups. The experience was pleasant, but they gave no verbal reference to Bahá'u'lláh or the Bahá'í Faith. This is because they do not accept His claim. So naturally they had no reason to.

Unlike Bahá'ís, Bábís will not necessarily admit their faith to outsiders. Indeed some will present themselves as Muslims. So unless one is familiar with how to locate them, they can be difficult to find. This is why outsiders are normally introduced to them. Not all of these Bábís actually practice their beliefs, but they do, understandably, respect the beliefs of their ancestors.

Very few modern Bahá'ís have any former association with the Báb's Revelation prior to accepting the Bahá'í Faith. So naturally it can be very difficult for most Bahá'ís to answer your question. It is rather like asking a Jew that has converted to Islam what it was like for a Christian to convert to Islam. One experience does not imply an understanding about another. This might help to explain the difficulties that you have been experiencing with trying to find an answer to this question.

In a face to face situation I would usually refer people that have asked such a question to a respected Afnán that is loyal to Bahá'u'lláh. The Afnán descend from the maternal line of the Báb. They therefore share His bloodline, even if they are not direct descendants of the Báb Himself. Such people are best suited to answer your question with the dignity that it deserves.

To help appreciate the qualities of the Afnán, do understand that Bahá'u'lláh has bestowed particular favours upon them along with requesting that the Bahá'ís treat them with the greatest of respect. The Afnán are guided by the spiritual principle of certitude. This is why unless one is formally introduced to them or they are invited to speak, they will prefer to remain silent about their religious heritage. Of all the groups of people within the Bahá'í Faith, I feel more comfortable in the presence of the Afnán. They are now my closest link to my religious association to the original Bábí Community during the lifetime of the Báb. So in a manner of speaking they have constantly helped me in my religious journey, even if they might not be aware of my own unique religious connection with the Báb. This process has not always been undertaken through the scholarly pursuit of the Báb's Writings, but rather through being given the grace to experience the dignity and quality of their respective characters. You need to understand that in my eyes each Afnán can be likened to a King.

Ultimately it is the soul that recognises a Manifestation of God and this is why the process will forever remain a mystery. Religious texts need to be viewed more like dots that allow people to join them together in order to make rational sense of a spiritual reality. They can offer some degree of clarity, but through the eyes of others they can also contribute towards misrepresentation and misdirection too.

Sometimes, for the sake of brevity, when people ask me how I recognised the Báb, I simply reply the same way a child in a healthy family learns to recognise their parents. The process was completely natural to me. It was equally natural with recognising Bahá'u'lláh too. What is often missing in these type of discussions is the human element. Bahá'ís are actually composed of people from many faiths. This means each person has their own unique story to tell. We all need to honour our spiritual heritage and family history. This is why I have the utmost respect for those in the various Bábí groups that choose to honour their ancestors too.

I hope this might go some way towards answering your question.

Earth

Last edited by Earth; 07-06-2017 at 05:43 AM.
 
Old 07-06-2017, 05:43 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
That is point of view of Nazarethan Bahaism but NOT Bahaism, Baha'i faith disbelieve in judgment day and literal Resurrection, but in "Nazarethan" branch of Bahaism these doctrines are based of faith
One person is not a "branch".

And if you claim not to be a Baha'i, why answer a question directed too them??

Last edited by Walrus; 07-06-2017 at 05:55 AM.
 
Old 07-06-2017, 10:41 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walrus View Post
One person is not a "branch".

And if you claim not to be a Baha'i, why answer a question directed too them??
Because I'm in 1/2 in feel baha'i follower and next 1/2 I still follow Scriptures (Old Testament especially), That Is separated religion, If you have a fun that meaning you are not truly tolerance

If my predictions haven't fulfill so I'm false messager, be careful what did you say, I'm messiah of Jew and I preach mosaism (not Judaism) , all world scorn me, even own people abandon me

Last edited by Babism; 07-06-2017 at 10:54 AM.
 
Old 07-06-2017, 02:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
Because I'm in 1/2 in feel baha'i follower and next 1/2 I still follow Scriptures (Old Testament especially), That Is separated religion, If you have a fun that meaning you are not truly tolerance
I believe wholly that Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu were both Prophets (likely a Greater and Lesser respectively, though I don't pretend to know their precise standing with certainty) and follow the teachings outlined in the Tao Teh Ching.

But I don't style myself as the SOLE MEMBER of some EXCITING NEW SECT. No. I'm just a Baha'i.

The Baha'i Faith allows a good deal of heterodoxy, with the whole "unity in diversity" thing, so I don't see why the addition of other beliefs should cause you to think the creation of a sect of one person is necessary or even a good idea.

And when discussions lead to a point where I express beliefs that do not come from Baha'i Scriptures, I'm careful to point out that the belief is not representative of the whole.

Whereas you seem to frame your personal ideas as representative of a larger group. You style yourself as a whole sect rather than an individual person. I do wonder why that is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
If my predictions haven't fulfill so I'm false messager, be careful what did you say, I'm messiah of Jew and I preach mosaism (not Judaism) , all world scorn me, even own people abandon me
I'm not wholly sure what you're saying, but given the Polish/English language barrier that is understandable. I don't wish to misrepresent you, so I shall not attempt to guess your meaning here.
 
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