Bahai Forums

Go Back   Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Beliefs

Baha'i Beliefs Baha'i Beliefs - Unity of God, the Unity of Religion, and the Unity of Humanity


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-13-2017, 06:04 AM   #1
Member
 
Joined: Feb 2016
From: United States
Posts: 51
The End of Times

I've never been one to put much stock in talk of the end of times, even back when I considered myself a Christian. I've heard so many varying accounts of what the Bible's Book of Revelations should mean that they soon became meaningless. I know there's a book out there--you can find it on Amazon, at least--that talks about the Book of Revelations and how it fits into Baha'i theology. I've never read it, because to me it's just another interpretation of a book no one can really make sense of anyway.

The official Baha'i teachings on the New Testament--that I've seen, anyway--dispute the very nature of the resurrection of Christ and consider the "end of times" according to Revelation to have already taken place. We got Baha'u'llah out of the deal, and that's that. I've never looked into it, and I'm fine with that.

However, recently I've been reading the Qur'an. Unlike the Bible, Baha'i teachings indicate that the Qur'an is a more perfect revelation than the New Testament ever was, and that we can consider it to be the unadulterated Word of God. But not only does it insist there is a Hell (very, very consistently), but it also talks repeatedly about the last days, and the resurrection of the dead at the end of times when we will all be judged. The believers will live in the heaven of gardens of delight, while the unbelievers will be cast into eternal flame.

What's the Baha'i take on all this? Unlike Baha'i's treatment of the Book of Revelations as the return of Christ in Baha'u'llah, the Qur'an's teachings of the end of times do not prophecy the return of anyone in particular. It just is. Yet this is a subject that seems completely ignored in Baha'i literature, at least for a Western, mostly Christian audience. It seems to be a very important teaching of the Qur'an, however, and I would really like to see it addressed from a Baha'i perspective.

Any thoughts? Any sources that I could delve into that would explain this further? Thanks in advance...
 
Join Baha'i Forums


Welcome to Baha'i Forums, an open Baha'i Faith community! We welcome everyone and the community is free to join so register today and become part of the Baha'i Forums family!


Old 08-13-2017, 06:49 AM   #2
Jcc
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2013
From: Edwardsville, Illinois, USA
Posts: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scribe View Post
I've never been one to put much stock in talk of the end of times, even back when I considered myself a Christian. I've heard so many varying accounts of what the Bible's Book of Revelations should mean that they soon became meaningless. I know there's a book out there--you can find it on Amazon, at least--that talks about the Book of Revelations and how it fits into Baha'i theology. I've never read it, because to me it's just another interpretation of a book no one can really make sense of anyway.

The official Baha'i teachings on the New Testament--that I've seen, anyway--dispute the very nature of the resurrection of Christ and consider the "end of times" according to Revelation to have already taken place. We got Baha'u'llah out of the deal, and that's that. I've never looked into it, and I'm fine with that.

However, recently I've been reading the Qur'an. Unlike the Bible, Baha'i teachings indicate that the Qur'an is a more perfect revelation than the New Testament ever was, and that we can consider it to be the unadulterated Word of God. But not only does it insist there is a Hell (very, very consistently), but it also talks repeatedly about the last days, and the resurrection of the dead at the end of times when we will all be judged. The believers will live in the heaven of gardens of delight, while the unbelievers will be cast into eternal flame.

What's the Baha'i take on all this? Unlike Baha'i's treatment of the Book of Revelations as the return of Christ in Baha'u'llah, the Qur'an's teachings of the end of times do not prophecy the return of anyone in particular. It just is. Yet this is a subject that seems completely ignored in Baha'i literature, at least for a Western, mostly Christian audience. It seems to be a very important teaching of the Qur'an, however, and I would really like to see it addressed from a Baha'i perspective.

Any thoughts? Any sources that I could delve into that would explain this further? Thanks in advance...
The Baha'i take on "end times" prophecies in both the Bible and Qur'an are that they are symbolic, not literal. In the Kitab-I-Iqan Baha'u'llah makes this clear and explains some of the meanings. In Some Answered questions Abdul-Baha provides detailed explanations of certain chapters in Revelation, adding that there are other explanations as well. The Qur'an was revealed more recently than the Bible and by only one Prophet, and for that reason it is likely to be a more accurate representation of what the Prophet actually said, but it is no less symbolic than the Bible when describing future events.

The Qu'ran does not specify the Return of Christ, but as I understand it there are Hadiths that do specifically mention that Jesus would return, thus supporting New Testament prophecies. But the problem that both Christians and Muslims have is they try to take these prophecies literally, whereas that should never be the case.

As a side note, I did a little research recently on Old Testament prophecies that were interpreted in the New Testament by the Gospel writers and by Jesus Himself. There are dozens of instances of Old Testament prophecies that were specifically mentioned as being fulfilled by the coming of Jesus. Almost none of them were interpreted literally. So, the Bible itself provides the key to understanding how future events are represented in Scripture, that is, they are never literal, always symbolic. Somehow, Jews, Christians and Muslims have not caught onto that fact.

Last edited by Jcc; 08-13-2017 at 07:05 AM.
 
Old 08-13-2017, 07:16 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
camachoe's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2017
From: Mexico
Posts: 150
Dear Scribe:

I have found searching for key words a quick way to access what Baha'i Scriptures have to say about a topic (provided such topic is typically represented by a single term or a small set of terms, as "resurrection", for example). This link should take you to the search of this term in the official Baha'i On Line Library.

In the same way that "being born" again had a symbolic value, and did not mean that a man should enter the womb and be expelled through the vagina of his mother again, "resurrection" does not mean that any ashes or molecules in the soil after the corpse has decayed come together to build cells, tissues and organs again... and "end of times" do not indicate a physical catastrophe that destroys human civilization and the planet.

The Gospel tells the story of Nicodemus, who despite his intelligence and sincerity, could not understand at first what Jesus meant by "being born again".
By the same token, intelligent, sincere Christians and Muslims of our time do not understand at first what Jesus or Mohammed (Peace be upon them) mean when they speak of "resurrection", "hell", "paradise", or "end of times".

I wonder what other concepts that we handle in the Bahá'u'lláh Dispensation as literal, will be shown by the next Manifestation, when mankind is ready, to be also symbolic in nature. Some spiritual concepts must be explained with metaphors as mankind goes from childhood to adulthood. Metaphors work as tools of understanding for a while, but then start being explained out as centuries and dispensations pass.

I should add that perhaps there are always, at any given dispensation, some enlightened people who know, in the bottom of their hearts, that a concept commonly held as literal by their fellowmen has indeed a mystical meaning, but prefer not to speak out to avoid conflict, division, persecution, or misunderstanding by their fellowmen, and await a more favourable circumstance in the future.
 
Old 08-13-2017, 07:56 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2013
From: Dorset, England
Posts: 126
God is God of life not spiritual but literal

Dears follower of baha'i faith (Haifan or others)

For Baha’u'llah and his cycle end time had come, but history of "end time" like to be renew

View of Nazarethan Baha'i Faith
I show you up evidences that is true

1. Resonance of Schumman

Resonance of Schumman accelerated from 7,45 Hz in 1980 to 40 Hz in 2014,  so time is much shorter than before

Why Is Earth's Schumann Resonance Accelerating? - Kathy J. Forti, PhD

Matthew 24:22
" If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened"

2. Birds fall down from heaven
without reason,  fish and other animals have die off

Hoseah 4:3 " That is why your land is in mourning, and everyone is wasting away. Even the wild animals, the birds of the sky, and the fish of the sea are disappearing"

Mass death of animals
National geographic
Mass Animal Die-Offs Are on the Rise, Killing Billions and Raising Questions

Strange Death of birds
BBC news
The mystery of mass bird deaths - BBC News

The guardian, mass antelopes mystery died
The guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/science/...rial-infection

Mass fish death
Watch: Thousands of dead fish discovered at city 'lake of death' - Birmingham Mail

Hundreds of dead fish found floating in Colorado lake - CBS News

End times is near, but nobody don't know time of coming of Allah/Yahweh!

Paweł Sz.
Source - https://nazarethanbahaifaith.wordpre.../?preview=true

Last edited by Babism; 08-13-2017 at 08:21 AM.
 
Old 08-14-2017, 05:08 AM   #5
Member
 
Joined: Feb 2016
From: United States
Posts: 51
I searched the Baha'i library online for the term, "Day of Judgement," and I found this link which goes into detail about the Baha'i position on the matter:

https://bahai-library.com/notes_bahai_proofs_quran

Section IV discusses pretty much everything I wanted to know. Naturally, I'm sure that many others will have vastly different interpretations of the meaning of these verses, but this seems to clarify the official Baha'i position for me. In the future, I may refer to the Baha'i library before asking here, but just in case there are others with the same questions I might bring it up here anyway...
 
Old 08-15-2017, 02:14 AM   #6
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
tonyfish58's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: Normanton Far North Queensland
Posts: 3,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scribe View Post
I searched the Baha'i library online for the term, "Day of Judgement," and I found this link which goes into detail about the Baha'i position on the matter:

https://bahai-library.com/notes_bahai_proofs_quran

Section IV discusses pretty much everything I wanted to know. Naturally, I'm sure that many others will have vastly different interpretations of the meaning of these verses, but this seems to clarify the official Baha'i position for me. In the future, I may refer to the Baha'i library before asking here, but just in case there are others with the same questions I might bring it up here anyway...
Just remember this library is not the offical Baha'i Library.

It is a great resource and it contains a lot of provisional translations.

Regards Tony
 
Old 08-17-2017, 06:13 AM   #7
Junior Member
 
Joined: May 2017
From: Earth
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scribe View Post
Yet this is a subject that seems completely ignored in Baha'i literature, at least for a Western, mostly Christian audience.
I was under the impression that the symbolic meaning, and the underlying reasons for why symbolism was utilized, was a key theme in the Kitab-i-Iqan (Book of Certitude), the main theological treatise by Baha'u'llah.

Essentially.. what do you think would have had more impact and influence on simple peasants hundreds of years ago? Gardens and delight for your perseverance and hellfire for your disobedience, or nearness to an Invisible Spirit and distance to It, respectively. I'm personally not for holding people of different periods of history to the same standard as our contemporary selves (after all, we may be held to similarly currently-unfeasible standards by people in the future reading through our comments and internet activity which might very well persist for centuries/millennia!) And perhaps, distance/nearness to God is far far more extreme in its reality than physical bliss/hellfire, though I couldn't claim to understand what that entails. And for those in the past who had the capacity to understand this truth.. the answer was always there if they read between the lines of those Holy Texts. Resurrection is similarly discussed, although being a separate concept.

But yeah, I highly recommend Kitab-i-Iqan, as Baha'u'llah spends pages on this topic. Or do you mean reasons beyond what it states?
 
Old 08-17-2017, 06:28 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Walrus's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: Wisconsin
Posts: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scribe View Post
I've never been one to put much stock in talk of the end of times, even back when I considered myself a Christian. I've heard so many varying accounts of what the Bible's Book of Revelations should mean that they soon became meaningless. I know there's a book out there--you can find it on Amazon, at least--that talks about the Book of Revelations and how it fits into Baha'i theology. I've never read it, because to me it's just another interpretation of a book no one can really make sense of anyway.

The official Baha'i teachings on the New Testament--that I've seen, anyway--dispute the very nature of the resurrection of Christ and consider the "end of times" according to Revelation to have already taken place. We got Baha'u'llah out of the deal, and that's that. I've never looked into it, and I'm fine with that.

However, recently I've been reading the Qur'an. Unlike the Bible, Baha'i teachings indicate that the Qur'an is a more perfect revelation than the New Testament ever was, and that we can consider it to be the unadulterated Word of God. But not only does it insist there is a Hell (very, very consistently), but it also talks repeatedly about the last days, and the resurrection of the dead at the end of times when we will all be judged. The believers will live in the heaven of gardens of delight, while the unbelievers will be cast into eternal flame.

What's the Baha'i take on all this? Unlike Baha'i's treatment of the Book of Revelations as the return of Christ in Baha'u'llah, the Qur'an's teachings of the end of times do not prophecy the return of anyone in particular. It just is. Yet this is a subject that seems completely ignored in Baha'i literature, at least for a Western, mostly Christian audience. It seems to be a very important teaching of the Qur'an, however, and I would really like to see it addressed from a Baha'i perspective.

Any thoughts? Any sources that I could delve into that would explain this further? Thanks in advance...
I have a thought, a recent one that I had on another discussion elsewhere, but a thought that could apply here none-the-less. Regardless of how authentic or inauthentic the bible is, we know a few things. We know Jesus loves to speak in terms of parable or symbolism.

We also know Baha'u'llah loves to speak in highly symbolic terms as well. I mean I just googled "Baha'u'llah quote" and the first thing I got was "The door of the knowledge of the Ancient of Days being thus closed in the face of all beings, the Source of infinite grace…hath caused those luminous Gems of Holiness to appear out of the realm of the spirit, in the noble form of the human temple, and be made manifest unto all men, that they may impart unto the world the mysteries of the unchangeable Being, and tell of the subtleties of His imperishable Essence." To call Baha'u'llah's statements "flowery language" would be a criminal understatement.

So I have to wonder. We know that at least a few prophets like to communicate in highly symbolic ways... So, is it not possible that prophets we assume to be more straightforward, like Muhammad or Moses (the subject of the other discussion I was having) are similar in this respect?? A report of the character of a djinni in a historical story context is rather ludicrous. The character of a djinni in a parable context is a whole different matter.

Last edited by Walrus; 08-17-2017 at 06:30 AM.
 
Old 08-17-2017, 07:34 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
camachoe's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2017
From: Mexico
Posts: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by divan9 View Post
I'm personally not for holding people of different periods of history to the same standard as our contemporary selves (after all, we may be held to similarly currently-unfeasible standards by people in the future reading through our comments and internet activity which might very well persist for centuries/millennia!)
I agree, divan. Even our days, when we educate our children, we do the same progressive switch between a literal and narrow view of punishment to a more comprehensive and accurate one.

The first time we explain to very small kids why marihuana is bad, we use phrases like "it hurts your brain forever and makes you silly or crazy".

Later on as they grow up we start explaining (or they discover on their own) that the damage to the brain depends a lot on the type of drug, frequency, dose, length of exposure, and that not all of smokers go "silly" or "crazy"... that many marihuana smokers are all around living their lives with high moral standards, even doing great things for mankind... etc.

As you say, Baha'is from the "Golden Age", centuries from now, will look back and smile at the way we practiced religion. But they will still be thankful to us... they will appreciate that, even in the middle of our relative ignorance, we managed to lay down the foundations of their age.

Last edited by camachoe; 08-17-2017 at 07:38 AM.
 
Old 08-20-2017, 02:57 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2013
From: forest falls california
Posts: 1,773
end of times

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scribe View Post
I've never been one to put much stock in talk of the end of times,

What's the Baha'i take on all this? Unlike Baha'i's treatment of the Book of Revelations as the return of Christ in Baha'u'llah, the Qur'an's teachings of the end of times do not prophecy the return of anyone in particular. It just is. Yet this is a subject that seems completely ignored in Baha'i literature, at least for a Western, mostly Christian audience. It seems to be a very important teaching of the Qur'an, however, and I would really like to see it addressed from a Baha'i perspective.

Any thoughts? Any sources that I could delve into that would explain this further? Thanks in advance...
A "time" is a measurement, even as a "day", or a "year". Baha'u'llah says: "The Prophetic Cycle hath, verily, ended."

Both the "seven times" prophecy of Moses in Leviticus and the 3 1/2 times prophecy appearing in Daniel, which equals 1260, and reappearing in Revelation, all refer to the end of the Prophetic Cycle of Time.

1260 AH = 1844 AD = ONE BE

So the "end of time" refers to those periods preceding the beginning of time, as measured by the Badi Calendar.

The Quran specifically speaks of the appearance of the Two Trumpet Blasts, the Bab and Baha'u'llah, corresponding with the 2nd and 3rd Woe of the Bible.

and "When mankind shall stand before the Lord of the worlds." which is Baha'u'llah
 
Reply

  Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Beliefs

Tags
end, times



Thread Tools
Display Modes



Facebook @bahaiforums RSS


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2006 - 2017 Bahai Forums. All rights reserved.