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Old 09-08-2014, 03:24 PM   #81
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Wager or more like insight

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmilingSkeptic View Post
Skeptic,
. Thanks for the link. Many years since I had read that and now afforded to read it with new eyes. From the vantage point of his analysis of logic alone, in making a wager, there is nothing outside to influence one's decision.

. For me, there is much more to the evidence, but which cannot be conveyed. Two people can read the "verses of God" and "one will be taken, one will be left", I suppose. What is it that becomes apparent in one but not the other?

. This could really sound judgemental, but please don't look at me as though upon a perch. It isn't that way. More the opposite.

. In my years of searching, I bit on many a plastic cookie. So much so, that when I encountered the Baha'i Faith, my teeth were half worn out and I could not fully taste the sweetness for awhile. Only over time, chewing on the Writings at my own pace, did the flavor come out, and for me, it did not, and does not, taste like plastic.

. It is not a wager to my reasoning mind. The issue for me is whether or not I could (or can) face the tests. I cringe at a sliver under my finger nail. How would I maintain my belief in the face of torture? Thats what makes me question my own "belief" in Baha'u'llah. Am I paying only lip-service.

. There is a Persian saying: "Its easy to be a Baha'i by the samovar..."

.
 
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Old 09-08-2014, 09:23 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by SmilingSkeptic View Post
From the link you provide, sorry I wasted my time following the link! "Given the possibility that God actually does exist and assuming an infinite gain or loss associated with belief or unbelief in said God (as represented by an eternity in heaven or hell), a rational person should live as though God exists and seek to believe in God. If God does not actually exist, such a person will have only a finite loss (some pleasures, luxury, etc").

Boy is that Rubbish I will say again what Rubbish - Actually it is quite maddening!

Only a little to lose

I suggest you study and consider what Christ the Bab and Baha'u'llah sacrificed to give the message before even thinking that we would even consider looking at rubbish like this! Also all the early believers that gave their lives for the causes. Little to lose indeed!

I have to go now and jump in Lake Eacham (Crater Lake) which is quite cold this time of year

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 09-09-2014, 07:05 AM   #83
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meow,
. It would appear to me that you have failed to appreciate that the verses of God are His proof, besides which nothing can compare.

. Consider, hath anything else besides the verses been established in the whole Book, as a standard for the recognition of the Manifestations of His Beauty, that the people might cling to, and reject the Manifestations of God? On the contrary, in every instance, He hath threatened with fire those that repudiate and scoff at the verses, as already shown."

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 201-220
Yes dear friend, but as this kitten does not accept any of Baha'u'llahs writings I was speaking from the Gospels where Christ told the Jews plainly that as they wished to refute everything He said that they not knowing Him also were opposers deniers of the very Messenger they considered they followed (Moses). Maybe the little playful kitty would like to look it up, and tell us this was not said also. So I used Christs words as my example in stating that kitty does not beieve in any Messenger, and from that no real belief in God.

If Meow wishes to think my words are unkind, Meow would be very mistaken, I think it is time for some tough love.
 
Old 09-09-2014, 07:18 AM   #84
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Yes interesting is it not?

Then in this game of life, what are you going to do?

Because dear friend, although you wish to disbelieve in God, and at this time consider Atheist teachers as most intelligent, in the end, what?

Of course all the Messengers of God and the Holy books tell us one thing, your Atheist friends say another, but the day is coming when you stand alone before your creator (yes my belief, backed by centuries of different Messengers of God) and you stand before him without aid of your friends, you are judged by your actions and words. There really is no more to say, each person makes their own decisions and each person is responsible for themselves.
 
Old 09-09-2014, 07:26 AM   #85
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meow is not being picky.
Nothing extraordinary here.
As you wish.
 
Old 09-09-2014, 08:08 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by dale ramsdell View Post
For me, there is much more to the evidence, but which cannot be conveyed. Two people can read the "verses of God" and "one will be taken, one will be left", I suppose. What is it that becomes apparent in one but not the other?
It's always a choice for each individual to make. To see or not see; to believe or not believe.

The Bab implored His followers to always be on the lookout for "Him Whom God would make manifest", and said that the 'proofs' of His Revelation would be available to everyone.

"For on that Day whatever cause prompteth the believer to believe in Him, the same will also be available to the unbeliever." --Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p103
 
Old 09-09-2014, 09:08 AM   #87
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Yes interesting is it not?

Then in this game of life, what are you going to do?

Because dear friend, although you wish to disbelieve in God, and at this time consider Atheist teachers as most intelligent, in the end, what?

Of course all the Messengers of God and the Holy books tell us one thing, your Atheist friends say another, but the day is coming when you stand alone before your creator (yes my belief, backed by centuries of different Messengers of God) and you stand before him without aid of your friends, you are judged by your actions and words. There really is no more to say, each person makes their own decisions and each person is responsible for themselves.
Well, all I can say is that although Pascal's Wager was the first formal use of game theory and I respect it for that, but it's been refuted for ages.
 
Old 09-09-2014, 09:09 AM   #88
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From the link you provide, sorry I wasted my time following the link! "Given the possibility that God actually does exist and assuming an infinite gain or loss associated with belief or unbelief in said God (as represented by an eternity in heaven or hell), a rational person should live as though God exists and seek to believe in God. If God does not actually exist, such a person will have only a finite loss (some pleasures, luxury, etc").

Boy is that Rubbish I will say again what Rubbish - Actually it is quite maddening!

Only a little to lose

I suggest you study and consider what Christ the Bab and Baha'u'llah sacrificed to give the message before even thinking that we would even consider looking at rubbish like this! Also all the early believers that gave their lives for the causes. Little to lose indeed!

I have to go now and jump in Lake Eacham (Crater Lake) which is quite cold this time of year

God Bless and Regards Tony
Well I brought that up more because it seemed like whoever I was replying to was invoking Pascal's Wager, which I think you and I would both consider to be a weak argument.
 
Old 09-09-2014, 12:01 PM   #89
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Well, all I can say is that although Pascal's Wager was the first formal use of game theory and I respect it for that, but it's been refuted for ages.
Correct dear friend

But you avoid my points, of what are you doing about your concerns?
 
Old 09-09-2014, 12:19 PM   #90
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Well I brought that up more because it seemed like whoever I was replying to was invoking Pascal's Wager, which I think you and I would both consider to be a weak argument.
Dear friend I will expand on my other comment a little more. Although I am trying hard to get you to think outside the box as it were, to think more deeply.

Tony has asked you to consider Jesus and others who have suffered greatly to bring enlightenment to the world. To give each soul the chance of a better life to come.
Now do you not think that this choice everyone must make is an important one. I consider there is no other choice more important.

As you say this idea of Pascal's is not the way to go, but when I look around I see many who follow his idea. Do you not also see these people? Look about how many say they are religious and believe in God, they may go to church what three times a year, maybe only to funerals and weddings, are they not followers of Pascal's idea.
You must know if you study the writings of Baha'u'llah that He says it is far better that you do not become Baha'i if you are only going to be lukewarm.
Its a matter of all or nothing, I believe.

But this is your most important choice of your life, and only you can make it.
Loving regards to you.
 
Old 09-09-2014, 12:57 PM   #91
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You must know if you study the writings of Baha'u'llah that He says it is far better that you do not become Baha'i if you are only going to be lukewarm.
That is true.

"Tell him,” was Bahá’u’lláh’s reply, “that in the days of My retirement in the mountains of Sulaymáníyyih, I, in a certain ode which I composed, set forth the essential requirements from every wayfarer who treads the path of search in his quest of Truth. Share with him this verse from that ode: ‘If thine aim be to cherish thy life, approach not our court; but if sacrifice be thy heart’s desire, come and let others come with thee. For such is the way of Faith, if in thy heart thou seekest reunion with Bahá; shouldst thou refuse to tread this path, why trouble us? Begone!' --The Dawn-Breakers pp. 137-138
 
Old 09-09-2014, 03:12 PM   #92
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Correct dear friend

But you avoid my points, of what are you doing about your concerns?
As I've explained before, I still think that the verses I've been upset about are not good, but I'm not feeling like they are barbed at me.
 
Old 09-09-2014, 03:14 PM   #93
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Hi
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Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
Dear meow, of course you will never see, never hear, never believe. You are the same generation that has apposed all of the messengers of God. You would have apposed Moses, Jesus and Muhammad as well. I see clearly that for you nothing but the idols of your own making will suffice you.

I find your posts both amusing and sad, I clearly see that you have no belief in God or His Messengers. So why here in the forum, is it just to amuse yourself, by denying everything?

Well enjoy yourself and good luck.
meow finds your posts both sad and disturbing. Sad because you pretend to be nice but you aren't and disturbing because you see yourself as the criterion for truth and allow yourself to speak ill about those who disagree with you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dale ramsdell View Post
meow,
. It would appear to me that you have failed to appreciate that the verses of God are His proof, besides which nothing can compare.

. Consider, hath anything else besides the verses been established in the whole Book, as a standard for the recognition of the Manifestations of His Beauty, that the people might cling to, and reject the Manifestations of God? On the contrary, in every instance, He hath threatened with fire those that repudiate and scoff at the verses, as already shown."

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 201-220
As meow already said the mere 'claimed' words of Baha'u'llah are not proof by themselves. Meow hasn't received anything here yet that could incline him to accept Baha'i claims.
 
Old 09-09-2014, 03:47 PM   #94
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As meow already said the mere 'claimed' words of Baha'u'llah are not proof by themselves. Meow hasn't received anything here yet that could incline him to accept Baha'i claims.

Not a problem, meow, that choice is always yours, and yours alone, to make.


"Number me not with them who read Thy words and fail to find Thy hidden gift which, as decreed by Thee, is contained therein, and which quickeneth the souls of Thy creatures and the hearts of Thy servants. --Baha'u'llah, Prayers and Meditations, p 83
 
Old 09-09-2014, 04:01 PM   #95
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Not a problem, meow, that choice is always yours, and yours alone, to make.


"Number me not with them who read Thy words and fail to find Thy hidden gift which, as decreed by Thee, is contained therein, and which quickeneth the souls of Thy creatures and the hearts of Thy servants. --Baha'u'llah, Prayers and Meditations, p 83
"Number me not with them who follow astray paths and pathetically tell those who disagree that they are blind and do not see the light" -- Meowy, Words of Wisdom, p.?

Yes, meowy finds it very very very annoying that every time someone disagrees with a Baha'i on this forum they are responded by a quote from Baha'u'llah that boils down to "if you disagree with Baha'u'llah's words you are blind and cannot see the light of truth." What kind of reasoning is that?
 
Old 09-09-2014, 05:01 PM   #96
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Hi


meow finds your posts both sad and disturbing. Sad because you pretend to be nice but you aren't and disturbing because you see yourself as the criterion for truth and allow yourself to speak ill about those who disagree with you.



As meow already said the mere 'claimed' words of Baha'u'llah are not proof by themselves. Meow hasn't received anything here yet that could incline him to accept Baha'i claims.
Dear Meow

Well we agree on one thing at least, apparently we both find each others posts sad.
As for your judgement concerning myself as a criterion for truth, that is solely in your mind and certainly not in mine. You appear to have many negative thoughts, of course if you were more honest and open, perhaps we would not bounce off each other as it appears.
I have my opinions re my faith yes, but I was not always a Baha'i, and so also have studied and been members of other faiths, I also have lived many years, traveled much of the world, so yes I may have picked up a little knowledge, but I have learn't enough to know I am no expert.

But now lets look at your posts, now we do see an expert talking, from what I read very little humility, you say I am not nice, why because unlike most other Baha'is here I can be direct and honest. I never said that I was nice I leave that for others to judge, you have made your judgement thankfully you are not God, for I only fear His judgement.

Now to attack the person and not what has been said, is a poor argument dear Meowy. I have made some observations of where you are coming from, but you do not address them no you retreat to personal attack, lets just forget what you have said and try to discuss the real issues, OK.

I have made the statement from my personal view That you appear not to believe in God at all, I see you rejecting anything and all that is said, while reading my Bible today, I could not help but see the parallels in what you have been saying and what is written there that the Jews said of and to Christ, that you may not see that is indeed sad.

I am prepared for honest discussion not games. How about being honest just for once.
 
Old 09-09-2014, 05:06 PM   #97
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As I've explained before, I still think that the verses I've been upset about are not good, but I'm not feeling like they are barbed at me.
Dear friend

I hear what you have said, but that you feel the verses in Baha'u'llahs writings are not good.

I would like to hear what you think when you read the verses in the Jewish book.

Then how do you feel when you read the Christian Gospels?

Do you feel the same or not?
 
Old 09-09-2014, 05:46 PM   #98
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meowy finds it very very very annoying that every time someone disagrees with a Baha'i on this forum they are responded by a quote from Baha'u'llah.
Agreed, it's very, very, very strange how that happens, isn't it? Here you have a site called 'Baha'i Forums', populated by a lot of members of the Baha'i Faith, and lo and behold, numerous quotes are posted from the Baha'i Writings! A real head-scratcher, that.

You do understand that for us the Writings of Baha'u'llah are the revealed Word of God, right? What could any of us possibly say that would supercede that?

You have indicated that you disagree with (almost?) everything Baha'i. Curious, what do you agree with?
 
Old 09-09-2014, 06:12 PM   #99
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Dear friend

I hear what you have said, but that you feel the verses in Baha'u'llahs writings are not good.

I would like to hear what you think when you read the verses in the Jewish book.

Then how do you feel when you read the Christian Gospels?

Do you feel the same or not?
I feel there are good verses and flaws in all holy books. If I didn't I would belong to one religion or another, I think.
 
Old 09-09-2014, 06:21 PM   #100
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I feel there are good verses and flaws in all holy books. If I didn't I would belong to one religion or another, I think.
You finish with "I think" doesn't sound as if you are sure.

Well dear friend you are young, and hopefully have many years ahead to work it all out for yourself.

Loving best wishes to you.
 
Old 09-09-2014, 06:26 PM   #101
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You finish with "I think" doesn't sound as if you are sure.

Well dear friend you are young, and hopefully have many years ahead to work it all out for yourself.

Loving best wishes to you.
No, I am sure at this point. Forever? Can't say for certain. But the "I think" wasn't about unsureness, just a concluder to the statement.
 
Old 09-09-2014, 06:27 PM   #102
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I feel there are good verses and flaws in all holy books. If I didn't I would belong to one religion or another, I think.

Hey, Skeptic, I read the below today and liked the different look at 'ungodly' and 'atheist'. It's from 'The Revelation of Baha'u'llah', Vol 3, by Adib Taherzadeh.


"Another enemy as dangerous as one's own self and passion is association with the ungodly which will dampen or destroy one's faith. This is Bahá'u'lláh's ominous warning:

"O Son of Dust! Beware! Walk not with the ungodly and seek not fellowship with him, for such companionship turneth the radiance of the heart into infernal fire."


"The word 'ungodly' should not be misunderstood. An
ungodly person may profess belief in God, while many who regard themselves as agnostics or atheists may not be ungodly in reality. An ungodly person is one who through his friendship, knowingly or unknowingly, prevents a believer from following the dictates of his faith and becomes a barrier between him and his God."

You certainly don't fall into that category.
 
Old 09-09-2014, 06:35 PM   #103
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I agree

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Hey, Skeptic, I read the below today and liked the different look at 'ungodly' and 'atheist'. It's from 'The Revelation of Baha'u'llah', Vol 3, by Adib Taherzadeh.


"Another enemy as dangerous as one's own self and passion is association with the ungodly which will dampen or destroy one's faith. This is Bahá'u'lláh's ominous warning:

"O Son of Dust! Beware! Walk not with the ungodly and seek not fellowship with him, for such companionship turneth the radiance of the heart into infernal fire."


"The word 'ungodly' should not be misunderstood. An
ungodly person may profess belief in God, while many who regard themselves as agnostics or atheists may not be ungodly in reality. An ungodly person is one who through his friendship, knowingly or unknowingly, prevents a believer from following the dictates of his faith and becomes a barrier between him and his God."

You certainly don't fall into that category.
Dear friend yes I agree SmilingSceptic does not fit the description of an ungodly person, not from what I have seen and heard.
 
Old 09-09-2014, 06:38 PM   #104
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No, I am sure at this point. Forever? Can't say for certain. But the "I think" wasn't about unsureness, just a concluder to the statement.
OK, but I still wish you a happy future.

That invitation to visit is still valid by the way. loving smile.
 
Old 09-09-2014, 06:42 PM   #105
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Hey, Skeptic, I read the below today and liked the different look at 'ungodly' and 'atheist'. It's from 'The Revelation of Baha'u'llah', Vol 3, by Adib Taherzadeh.


"Another enemy as dangerous as one's own self and passion is association with the ungodly which will dampen or destroy one's faith. This is Bahá'u'lláh's ominous warning:

"O Son of Dust! Beware! Walk not with the ungodly and seek not fellowship with him, for such companionship turneth the radiance of the heart into infernal fire."


"The word 'ungodly' should not be misunderstood. An
ungodly person may profess belief in God, while many who regard themselves as agnostics or atheists may not be ungodly in reality. An ungodly person is one who through his friendship, knowingly or unknowingly, prevents a believer from following the dictates of his faith and becomes a barrier between him and his God."

You certainly don't fall into that category.
Well, that's good to know. What I want to know, though, is whether the bottom quote is Baha'ullah's or the author's?
 
Old 09-09-2014, 07:04 PM   #106
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Well, that's good to know. What I want to know, though, is whether the bottom quote is Baha'ullah's or the author's?
The author's. He (now deceased) was at one time a member of the Universal House of Justice and a recognized Baha'i scholar, --- in other words, no lightweight. I find his explanations good food for thought; others may differ.
 
Old 09-09-2014, 07:08 PM   #107
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The author's. He (now deceased) was at one time a member of the Universal House of Justice and a recognized Baha'i scholar, --- in other words, no lightweight. I find his explanations good food for thought; others may differ.
Thanks dear Josh, it is late here, but I have waited to see your reply. wonderful

I like very much the quote also, and yes food for thought, I would meditate upon it. there is much to learn from this little quote from a Baha'i scholar or not.

Best wishes to you both, and good night.
 
Old 09-09-2014, 08:03 PM   #108
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As meow already said the mere 'claimed' words of Baha'u'llah are not proof by themselves. Meow hasn't received anything here yet that could incline him to accept Baha'i claims.
. The "mere "claimed" words" of God are not proof by themselves...

. The "mere "claimed" rays" of the sun are not proof by themselves ??

. This is only my opinion, but after many decades of exposing my eyes to the Writings of Baha'u'llah, and my eyes to the rays of the sun, neither require any proof. So long as one turns away from the sun, no light will enter the eyes.

. All the Holy Books refer to those who have eyes, but see not. and ears, but hear not. God does not need your belief in Him. The sun does not need your eyes to see it. Each is independent of that which is in need of them.

. The deficiency is entirely within yourself. This is my blunt and honest opinion. If you are sincere, and not simply entertaining perpetually your own ego, pray to God to lift the veils from your eyes. For no one here can possibly remove these veils for you, and if you cling to them, for whatever reason, you will never see the truth of His Words. (It works like that.)

.
 
Old 09-09-2014, 08:49 PM   #109
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Well I brought that up more because it seemed like whoever I was replying to was invoking Pascal's Wager, which I think you and I would both consider to be a weak argument.
Yes very weak

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 09-09-2014, 09:59 PM   #110
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[QUOTE=Josh;58585]Hey, Skeptic, I read the below today and liked the different look at 'ungodly' and 'atheist'. It's from 'The Revelation of Baha'u'llah', Vol 3, by Adib Taherzadeh.


"Another enemy as dangerous as one's own self and passion is association with the ungodly which will dampen or destroy one's faith. This is Bahá'u'lláh's ominous warning:

"O Son of Dust! Beware! Walk not with the ungodly and seek not fellowship with him, for such companionship turneth the radiance of the heart into infernal fire."


"The word 'ungodly' should not be misunderstood. An
ungodly person may profess belief in God, while many who regard themselves as agnostics or atheists may not be ungodly in reality. An ungodly person is one who through his friendship, knowingly or unknowingly, prevents a believer fro
m following the dictates of his faith and becomes a barrier between him and his God."


This is really a wonderful find for quotes. I also read in the writings that special consideration will be given to family members of Baha'is that don't declare as Baha'i as long as they don't make problems for the faith or make it difficult for their loved one to live their faith. This I found very comforting as my very dear husband is not Baha'i

Last edited by becky; 09-09-2014 at 10:02 PM.
 
Old 09-10-2014, 07:34 AM   #111
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Baha'is believe the promise of Baha'u'llah that His Revelation and teachings would bring about the unity of the planet; promises contained in previous scriptures -- "One fold and one shepherd","And He shall judge among the nations", "They shall beat their swords into plowshares" "On earth as it is in heaven".

Many still view this as simply impractical and unrealistic pie-in-the-sky dreaming.

The religious leaders of Baha'u'llah's day also didn't buy it. They branded Him a heretic and a usurper of Islam, and vowed to eliminate Him and His Cause. Baha'u'llah addressed them:

"If this Cause be of God, no man can prevail against it; and if it be not of God, the divines amongst you, and they that follow their corrupt desires and such as have rebelled against Him will surely suffice to overpower it." Gleanings, p 220
 
Old 09-10-2014, 07:55 AM   #112
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[QUOTE=becky;58602]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh View Post
Hey, Skeptic, I read the below today and liked the different look at 'ungodly' and 'atheist'. It's from 'The Revelation of Baha'u'llah', Vol 3, by Adib Taherzadeh.


"Another enemy as dangerous as one's own self and passion is association with the ungodly which will dampen or destroy one's faith. This is Bahá'u'lláh's ominous warning:

"O Son of Dust! Beware! Walk not with the ungodly and seek not fellowship with him, for such companionship turneth the radiance of the heart into infernal fire."


"The word 'ungodly' should not be misunderstood. An
ungodly person may profess belief in God, while many who regard themselves as agnostics or atheists may not be ungodly in reality. An ungodly person is one who through his friendship, knowingly or unknowingly, prevents a believer fro
m following the dictates of his faith and becomes a barrier between him and his God."


This is really a wonderful find for quotes. I also read in the writings that special consideration will be given to family members of Baha'is that don't declare as Baha'i as long as they don't make problems for the faith or make it difficult for their loved one to live their faith. This I found very comforting as my very dear husband is not Baha'i
Dear Becky yes pray for your dear husband, but do not press him about his faith, you have to be the example maybe that will bring him to see.

I also am the only member of my family to accept the faith, most are not interested at all, I once had two daughters who were on fire with the faith but other peoples bad Baha'i behaviour drove them away. So I pray that maybe one day, before their earthly lives are finished they may investigate the faith again.

In the meantime I serve mankind as best as my weak body will allow.
So yes be comforted dear friend, and remain strong.
Loving regards
Bill
 
Old 09-10-2014, 02:30 PM   #113
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Good morning dear Becky

Quote:
Originally Posted by becky View Post
This is really a wonderful find for quotes. I also read in the writings that special consideration will be given to family members of Baha'is that don't declare as Baha'i as long as they don't make problems for the faith or make it difficult for their loved one to live their faith. This I found very comforting as my very dear husband is not Baha'i
Many have partners who are not "Baha'is". My own wife is one of them, and we have been married since the end of February 1981. She has given me her reasons, not because I asked, but when discussing and sharing our memories of communities and people.

Now, I use inverted comma's around the term "Baha'is" as a common comment that these ears hear in every community we have been in, including this one, is that she is more Baha'i in so many ways than the Baha'is themselves.

Maybe in her heart she has recognised Baha'u''llah, maybe she has not. But without her strong support, without her encouragement, and without her protection this one would not be who or where he is this day.

Whatever we may not have in common by name, we have in common by heart. And that is what is important.

With my very warmest greetings

Romane
 
Old 09-10-2014, 03:07 PM   #114
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[QUOTE=Romane;58620]Good morning dear Becky



Many have partners who are not "Baha'is". My own wife is one of them, and we have been married since the end of February 1981. She has given me her reasons, not because I asked, but when discussing and sharing our memories of communities and people.

Now, I use inverted comma's around the term "Baha'is" as a common comment that these ears hear in every community we have been in, including this one, is that she is more Baha'i in so many ways than the Baha'is themselves.

Maybe in her heart she has recognised Baha'u''llah, maybe she has not. But without her strong support, without her encouragement, and without her protection this one would not be who or where he is this day.

Whatever we may not have in common by name, we have in common by heart. And that is what is important.

With my very warmest greetings

Romane[/QUOTE
Amen to that, Romane! I thank God everyday for Clyde! Without God's grace, I have no idea where I'd be!
 
Old 09-13-2014, 07:33 PM   #115
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Can't keep Him down

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh View Post

"If this Cause be of God, no man can prevail against it; and if it be not of God, the divines amongst you, and they that follow their corrupt desires and such as have rebelled against Him will surely suffice to overpower it." Gleanings, p 220

. You just can't keep a good Manifestation down... ;-)
 
Old 09-13-2014, 08:56 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romane View Post
Good morning dear Becky



Many have partners who are not "Baha'is". My own wife is one of them, and we have been married since the end of February 1981. She has given me her reasons, not because I asked, but when discussing and sharing our memories of communities and people.

Now, I use inverted comma's around the term "Baha'is" as a common comment that these ears hear in every community we have been in, including this one, is that she is more Baha'i in so many ways than the Baha'is themselves.

Maybe in her heart she has recognised Baha'u''llah, maybe she has not. But without her strong support, without her encouragement, and without her protection this one would not be who or where he is this day.

Whatever we may not have in common by name, we have in common by heart. And that is what is important.

With my very warmest greetings

Romane
I was baffled at first when my girlfriend once described me as having "godly" attributes despite being an atheist, but after she explained it similar to how Romane explains it, I understood it.
 
Old 09-13-2014, 09:29 PM   #117
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We all sense this in you

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmilingSkeptic View Post
I was baffled at first when my girlfriend once described me as having "godly" attributes despite being an atheist, but after she explained it similar to how Romane explains it, I understood it.
. You know, she is right. We all, I'm quite sure, get the sense of this from you as you share your perspective and insights. None of us has a monopoly on virtues and these godly attributes, nor are they confined to Baha'is or simply those who profess with their lips to believe in God.

. We use our language in certain ways, form traditions around various words, and consider meaning from those who use these words as correct, and form associations of a broad range from those associations. Yet when some of these associations are negative, due to the discrepencies of professed beliefs and actual behavior, then people naturally become averse to the use of such words.

. Unfortunately, the abuses of the great institutions of the various faith traditions has soured the taste of some of these words, even the use of the word God. This is my opinion only, but one which makes sense to me.

. When religion becomes corrupted, then to abandon that religion is a relgious act, according to Abdul Baha. Only in abandoning such archaic and narrow paths is one freed to rediscover the real meaning and root which formerly caused loyalty and inspiration. We must rediscover the well for ourselves and draw meaningful water, and turn away from that which has become stagnant over time.

. When we do this, we are nourished by the pure water, and not corrupted by the tainted wells dominated by the aggressive souls who seek positions of leadership over others.

.
 
Old 09-14-2014, 06:06 AM   #118
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[QUOTE=dale ramsdell;58747]. You know, she is right. We all, I'm quite sure, get the sense of this from you as you share your perspective and insights. None of us has a monopoly on virtues and these godly attributes, nor are they confined to Baha'is or simply those who profess with their lips to believe in God.

. We use our language in certain ways, form traditions around various words, and consider meaning from those who use these words as correct, and form associations of a broad range from those associations. Yet when some of these associations are negative, due to the discrepencies of professed beliefs and actual behavior, then people naturally become averse to the use of such words.

. Unfortunately, the abuses of the great institutions of the various faith traditions has soured the taste of some of these words, even the use of the word God. This is my opinion only, but one which makes sense to me.

. When religion becomes corrupted, then to abandon that religion is a relgious act, according to Abdul Baha. Only in abandoning such archaic and narrow paths is one freed to rediscover the real meaning and root which formerly caused loyalty and inspiration. We must rediscover the well for ourselves and draw meaningful water, and turn away from that which has become stagnant over time.

. When we do this, we are nourished by the pure water, and not corrupted by the tainted wells dominated by the aggressive souls who seek positions of leadership over others.

.[/QUOTE

Religion must be the cause of fellowship and love. If it become the cause of estrangement, then it is not needed, for religion is like a remedy; if it aggravate the disease, then it becometh unnecessary.

Selected Writings of Abdu'l-Baha' pg 299
 
Old 02-14-2015, 02:40 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmilingSkeptic View Post
That doesn't mean, again, that this was specifically predicted to unleash a city destroying explosion. That is just your interpretation of it. For instance, it could easily be said, that because atoms were known to be the basic unit of life (nobody knew what they looked like) since about the 3rd century BC in Greece, the Persian mystics meant that there was a "sun" meaning the energy of life in the same way the sun spreads light and energy on Earth.
There still isn't anyone who knows what an atom looks like!
 
Old 02-14-2015, 02:56 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
Dear suzanne yes English is the business worlds language at the moment, but will not be the universal one.

Why do I say this, because of the words of Abdul-Baha, where he tells us there will be no silent letters. And it will not be Spanish as there will be no words that are of one sex or the other.

Wish I had the quote at my fingertips. But he says most likely that experts of language will form a total new language from those that exist.

Also only my thoughts.
But English is always changing as all languages do. It could, over a century or so, eliminate all sexist words and all silent letters, couldn't it?
 
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