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Old 04-21-2009, 02:26 AM   #1
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Arrow Baha'i Beliefs - God, Religion, Human Beings

Three core principles establish a basis for Bahá'í teachings and doctrine:
  1. the unity of God
  2. the unity of religion
  3. the unity of humankind

From these postulates stems the belief that God periodically reveals his will through divine educators, whose purpose is to transform the character of humankind and develop, within those who respond, moral and spiritual qualities. Religion is thus seen as orderly, unified, and progressive from age to age.
 
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Old 07-18-2010, 11:15 AM   #2
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In fact, there are twelve principles, which are often seen as a short summary of the bahá'í-faith. These are the following:

* Unity of God
* Unity of religion
* Unity of humankind
* Gender equality
* Elimination of all forms of prejudice
* World peace
* Harmony of religion and science
* Independent investigation of truth
* Universal compulsory education
* Universal auxiliary language
* Obedience to government and non-involvement in partisan politics
* Elimination of extremes of wealth and poverty
 
Old 07-19-2010, 06:09 AM   #3
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True, Claudia, but the three mentioned above are considered the three most central principles of the Baha'i Faith--what we call the "Three Onenesses."

Peace,

Bruce

Last edited by BruceDLimber; 07-21-2010 at 05:10 AM.
 
Old 07-21-2010, 02:47 PM   #4
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Ah, yes, I remember a song from Children's class

"God is One and man is one and all the religions agree. When we can have these three onenesses, we'll have world unity."
 
Old 08-16-2012, 08:29 PM   #5
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Sounds great, v v interesting
 
Old 05-01-2014, 06:37 PM   #6
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As-salamu alaykum,


One language, what do you guys think it should be? Creating a new language all together or creating a new one?

Personally, I think it should be Arabic.
 
Old 05-02-2014, 01:08 PM   #7
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It seems to be becoming English.
 
Old 05-02-2014, 02:03 PM   #8
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I feel that English is evolving as a universal language. Could computer language be a universal language, just a thought?
 
Old 05-03-2014, 03:45 PM   #9
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Who knows?

But Abdul-Baha made a statement of what the new language would not contain.

So all languages as they are now would have to change.

I concern myself with more pressing problems :-)
 
Old 05-04-2014, 05:59 PM   #10
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With regard to the universal language, it is too early to say what it might be, but more importantly, it needs to be chosen by the all the nations (or majority of them, I suppose). So that means they need to progress to the point where they can actually agree on something like that, so that may take a while.
 
Old 05-05-2014, 12:18 PM   #11
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With regard to the universal language, it is too early to say what it might be, but more importantly, it needs to be chosen by the all the nations (or majority of them, I suppose). So that means they need to progress to the point where they can actually agree on something like that, so that may take a while.
Yes we need to be patient, it is still in the future.
 
Old 09-03-2014, 07:54 AM   #12
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The universal auxiliary language seems to be evolving into English at the moment, but maybe in the future humanity will choose Arabic through an act of consultative will since it is the language of so much Revelation. Just my thoughts.
 
Old 09-03-2014, 08:29 AM   #13
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The universal auxiliary language seems to be evolving into English at the moment, but maybe in the future humanity will choose Arabic through an act of consultative will since it is the language of so much Revelation. Just my thoughts.
Dear suzanne yes English is the business worlds language at the moment, but will not be the universal one.

Why do I say this, because of the words of Abdul-Baha, where he tells us there will be no silent letters. And it will not be Spanish as there will be no words that are of one sex or the other.

Wish I had the quote at my fingertips. But he says most likely that experts of language will form a total new language from those that exist.

Also only my thoughts.
 
Old 09-03-2014, 08:33 PM   #14
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Airlines and English

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Originally Posted by Suzanne9 View Post
The universal auxiliary language seems to be evolving into English at the moment, but maybe in the future humanity will choose Arabic through an act of consultative will since it is the language of so much Revelation. Just my thoughts.
My understanding is that all of the international airline pilots are required to speak English.

Perhaps the need for a universal auxilliary language is so strong that a default is being exercised, defaulting to English for various reasons, until such time as the nations consciously select one in the future.

Our backs are against the wall, as a species, and if we are to survive, we need to talk...

.
 
Old 09-03-2014, 08:58 PM   #15
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'Abdu'l-Bahá gave very specific requirements for a universal language. English doesn't meet them. I also remember Him saying somewhere that it would not be Arabic. I'll see if I can find it.

He also says Esperanto, in its current form, will not become the universal language, but encouraged Bahá'ís to learn and teach it. Shoghi Effendi repeated this, while clarifying the reasons.

Something that often frustrates me is the insistence of some Bahá'ís that it will be or already is English. As already stated, it doesn't fit the requirements. Do we know more than 'Abdu'l-Bahá? No. So we should stop arguing with Him.

Because of this, I learned Esperanto. If the Master and the Guardian said to learn it, who am I to argue?
 
Old 09-03-2014, 09:07 PM   #16
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Maybe it will be Farsi (my mother tongue); who knows! :P
 
Old 09-04-2014, 12:43 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by EternalStudent9 View Post
'Abdu'l-Bahá gave very specific requirements for a universal language. English doesn't meet them. I also remember Him saying somewhere that it would not be Arabic. I'll see if I can find it.

He also says Esperanto, in its current form, will not become the universal language, but encouraged Bahá'ís to learn and teach it. Shoghi Effendi repeated this, while clarifying the reasons.

Something that often frustrates me is the insistence of some Bahá'ís that it will be or already is English. As already stated, it doesn't fit the requirements. Do we know more than 'Abdu'l-Bahá? No. So we should stop arguing with Him.

Because of this, I learned Esperanto. If the Master and the Guardian said to learn it, who am I to argue?
I believe what you say here is correct also dear friend.
And I like your thinking re Esperanto, do you communicate with others Esperanto, speakers who are not Baha'i? I myself have to concentrate on learning Spanish, and at my age will consume what time I have left.

Loving regards
 
Old 09-04-2014, 06:26 PM   #18
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Could Latin meet the requirements?
 
Old 09-05-2014, 01:44 AM   #19
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Could Latin meet the requirements?
All Latin nouns have gender.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 02:17 AM   #20
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Good morning dear friend

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Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
Dear suzanne yes English is the business worlds language at the moment, but will not be the universal one.

Why do I say this, because of the words of Abdul-Baha, where he tells us there will be no silent letters. And it will not be Spanish as there will be no words that are of one sex or the other.

Wish I had the quote at my fingertips. But he says most likely that experts of language will form a total new language from those that exist.

Also only my thoughts.
This is, perhaps, the quote you are thinking of.

Quote:
Esperanto

A friend enquired concerning Bahá'u'lláh's prophecy in the Words of Paradise, that a universal language would be formed, and desired to know if Esperanto would be the language chosen.

"The love and effort put into Esperanto will not be lost," he answered, "but no one person can construct a Universal Language. It must be made by a Council representing all countries, and must contain words from different languages. It will be governed by the simplest rules, and there will be no exceptions; neither will there be gender, nor extra and silent letters. Everything indicated will have but one name. In Arabic there are hundreds of names for the camel! In the schools of each nation the mother tongue will be taught, as well as the revised Universal Language."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 94)
With my warmest of greetings

Romane
 
Old 09-05-2014, 02:29 AM   #21
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Good morning close friend

Quote:
Originally Posted by dale ramsdell View Post
My understanding is that all of the international airline pilots are required to speak English.

Perhaps the need for a universal auxilliary language is so strong that a default is being exercised, defaulting to English for various reasons, until such time as the nations consciously select one in the future.

Our backs are against the wall, as a species, and if we are to survive, we need to talk...[.
Just a personal observation. The language of the day is generally based on the politically dominant society of the day. At this time, the politically dominant society speaks English. By default English is thus the language used for business and other needs.

Obviously, in a world which is made of a conglomerate of political bodies, not all of whom are on friendly terms at the moment but who will, by circumstances, as can already be seen slowly occuring, be forced into mutal co-operation and a state of unity - the "Lesser Peace" which the world will inevitably attain to fully and completely. - require some compromise and, as 'Abdu'l-Baha pointed out, the use of words from different languages and that Council representing all countries is demonstrated to be a need left over from the turmoil of this time. Later, the Most Great Peace, which the leaders of the world rejected somewhat a bit over 100 years ago, when the politics of the world, and all the peoples of the world, are completely engulfed by spiritual realities:

Quote:
Now that ye have refused the Most Great Peace, hold ye fast unto this, the Lesser Peace, that haply ye may in some degree better your own condition and that of your dependents.

(Baha'u'llah, The Proclamation of Baha'u'llah, p. 12)
(Baha'u'llah, The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 93)
Anyway, just my personal thoughts.

With warmest greetings

Romane

Last edited by Romane; 09-05-2014 at 02:36 AM.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 10:01 AM   #22
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Hi

Yes meowy knows this sounds kinda funny, but if meowy was sent from God and meowy was stating that a Principle of meowy's teachings is an auxiliary language, then meowy through meowy's divinge God given knowledge would have told his followers that the Auxiliary language of the future is X language. Meowy would have asked meowy's followers to learn and spread X language to help that language become the Universal language faster. meowy would not have left his followers in a state of ignorance regarding this language.

Something is wrong here.

Last edited by meow; 09-05-2014 at 10:10 AM.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 10:45 AM   #23
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Meow, I love your kitten icons, and the cute kitten way you write and sign your posts. It warms my heart every time.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 11:00 AM   #24
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Hi

Yes meowy knows this sounds kinda funny, but if meowy was sent from God and meowy was stating that a Principle of meowy's teachings is an auxiliary language, then meowy through meowy's divinge God given knowledge would have told his followers that the Auxiliary language of the future is X language. Meowy would have asked meowy's followers to learn and spread X language to help that language become the Universal language faster. meowy would not have left his followers in a state of ignorance regarding this language.

Something is wrong here.
In my opinion, all the supposed prophecies in all of the different religions are just vague enough that they can't be truly tested by outsiders, and can always be claimed to be accurate by believers. For instance, someone could claim that it will rain once a year in the Northeastern United States and they would be right.

Or take this prophecy that "proves" that Baha'ullah knew about mankind's use of atomic bombs and nuclear energy some fifty or more years before Einstein suggested the development of the Manhattan. The full quote is below.

"Strange and astonishing things exist in the earth but they are hidden from the minds and the understanding of men. These things are capable of changing the whole atmosphere of the earth and their contamination would prove lethal."

At the time he was living (1850s-1892), this could apply to any number of elements that hadn't been discovered yet. For instance, nobody was really using oil until the early 1900s. This was also "hidden" from understanding. And our overuse of fossil fuels has "changed the whole atmosphere of the earth" (through anthropogenic climate change) and "their contamination could prove lethal" (through sea level changes, for instance).

So does that prove that Baha'ullah knew people would use oil? It seems to me that what happens is that Baha'is who know about nuclear power's discovery go "aha!" and then interpret this prophecy to suit their conclusion that Baha'ullah predicted nuclear energy.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 11:23 AM   #25
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"Things" plural

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Originally Posted by SmilingSkeptic View Post
"

Strange and astonishing things exist in the earth but they are hidden from the minds and the understanding of men. These things are capable of changing the whole atmosphere of the earth and their contamination would prove lethal."

So does that prove that Baha'ullah knew people would use oil? It seems to me that what happens is that Baha'is who know about nuclear power's discovery go "aha!" and then interpret this prophecy to suit their conclusion that Baha'ullah predicted nuclear energy.
Skeptic,
. While many Baha'is may point to nuclear materials, which clearly contaminate the whole atmosphere of the earth, as in the spread of radioactivity from Cherynoble and Fukushima, the word He uses is not singular, but plural: "things"

. Choloroflourocarbona destroy the ozone layer. Mercury, though previously discovered, pollutes the ocean. Lithium has its problems. Fracking is releasing poisons into the groundwater and releasing methane into the atmosphere.

. I think that rather than nit-pick on the quote and what some Baha'is may focus on while expressing "their" opinions, the quote should be accepted at face value. Clearly, humanity is changeing the whole atmosphere of the earth by numerous means, and He forewarned us about it.

. Muhammad often said that He came only to "warn" us. The Prophets "know" things that we don't know and are Warners to us who do not have Their knowledge. It is at our own peril that we reject such warnings.
.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 11:48 AM   #26
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Again, that warning is so vague and generalizing that it's bound to happen sometime. He didn't say, "if we're not careful, in the year 2025 all the cities will be underwater because of this, this, and this." He basically said "Earth contains stuff we don't know about that may be hazardous to your health."

It's the difference between this:



Which is provable, and the statement, "Warning: Disneyland may contain dangerous things." That can also be proven true, but just like the "It will rain one day a year" prediction, it's too vague to be useful. For instance, would that be warning us about the rides, the chemicals, the characters being creepy...? You see what I mean?

Last edited by SmilingSkeptic; 09-05-2014 at 11:52 AM.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 12:30 PM   #27
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Hi

Yes meowy knows this sounds kinda funny, but if meowy was sent from God and meowy was stating that a Principle of meowy's teachings is an auxiliary language, then meowy through meowy's divinge God given knowledge would have told his followers that the Auxiliary language of the future is X language. Meowy would have asked meowy's followers to learn and spread X language to help that language become the Universal language faster. meowy would not have left his followers in a state of ignorance regarding this language.

Something is wrong here.
You do make me smile meow

Maybe if you were sent by God, dear meow you would be told what He wishes and not what you may feel is correct.

To tell the world that there has to be a universal language and leave it up to the world to choose, I feel is a good idea. If it was dictated as you say, I am sure many would cavil and cry, God is a dictator why can't we choose.

You can never please all of the people all of the time, is an old and wise saying.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 12:42 PM   #28
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In my opinion, all the supposed prophecies in all of the different religions are just vague enough that they can't be truly tested by outsiders, and can always be claimed to be accurate by believers. For instance, someone could claim that it will rain once a year in the Northeastern United States and they would be right.

Or take this prophecy that "proves" that Baha'ullah knew about mankind's use of atomic bombs and nuclear energy some fifty or more years before Einstein suggested the development of the Manhattan. The full quote is below.

"Strange and astonishing things exist in the earth but they are hidden from the minds and the understanding of men. These things are capable of changing the whole atmosphere of the earth and their contamination would prove lethal."

At the time he was living (1850s-1892), this could apply to any number of elements that hadn't been discovered yet. For instance, nobody was really using oil until the early 1900s. This was also "hidden" from understanding. And our overuse of fossil fuels has "changed the whole atmosphere of the earth" (through anthropogenic climate change) and "their contamination could prove lethal" (through sea level changes, for instance).

So does that prove that Baha'ullah knew people would use oil? It seems to me that what happens is that Baha'is who know about nuclear power's discovery go "aha!" and then interpret this prophecy to suit their conclusion that Baha'ullah predicted nuclear energy.
No dear friend most Baha'is study the writings of Baha'u'llah, and expand their knowledge of what He taught, you come upon one quote and then attack it and pull it apart, it is so easy to be negative, and make all kind of disparaging comments. I remember reading that Baha'u'llah said somewhere that if an atom was split man would find a sun within, or something along those lines.

No my friend God's Messenger has knowledge that mankind does not have, but of course you deny God and His messengers. Well dear friend you walk your path and I will walk mine, for surely the day is coming when you and I will know for sure.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 01:16 PM   #29
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Evidences for me, you, not the same

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Originally Posted by SmilingSkeptic View Post

Which is provable, and the statement, "Warning: Disneyland may contain dangerous things." That can also be proven true, but just like the "It will rain one day a year" prediction, it's too vague to be useful. For instance, would that be warning us about the rides, the chemicals, the characters being creepy...? You see what I mean?
Skeptic,
. I do see what you mean, and there is something about dancing around this topic is like a bug and a streetlight.

. The proofs you require are not the same as mine, and when I present the things which are meaningful and apparent to me, are not meaningful and apparent to you.

. A cultural example of this is a simple one of a Lakota friend who, in his belief system, was told of the Daybreak Star, and that it would be 8 sided. When he saw the Shrine of the Bab, with all the 8 pointed stars, something clicked for him that would never have clicked for me. Nothing in him hinged everything upon this, it just clicked - on a vision level or something. He already knew much about the Faith, sort of like yourself, but that foundation was not enough. Something had to click, and it had to be from his cultural perspective.

. Because I was a kind of math head when I was young, the numbers thing intrigued me (personally). My scientific/material view of the world would not allow for telling future events. Its impossible to know that 1260 years from now all hells going to break loose, and its gonna happen "here", in this specific place.

. These things are more like hints, and purposely so. They are veiled, and not apparent as the sun in the middle of the day. The physical sun, that is. This is because physical eyes perceive physical realities, and what we are talking about is the development of what only can be described as spiritual eyes. This is automatically a target for anyone who thinks they can disprove this via physical means. It works that way, as the realm from which the "spiritual" realities come is metaphysical - beyond physics.

. Thus, to communicate metaphysical knowledge requires metaphores - symbols representing abstract reality which is not apparent in the physical realm. Now one who adheres to the strict limitations of the physical realm may be offended and scoff at this, even as the religious leaders of the day scoffed at Copernicus and Galileo. The world continued to be flat for a very long time.

. So time and place prophecies may never be significant for you, and I suspect you have never thoroughly investigated them anyway, out of lack of interest, perhaps. I have, and they blew me away. Not just one or two here and there, but piles of them, objectively set aside one by one until a pile appeared which I frankly, could no longer deny. This upset my world view tremendously. I clung to my world view and all its certainties, as do most people, which is out of necessity. We "must" know the world we live in.

. Eventually, I no longer needed any prophecies to "see" what eventually became apparent in the Words of the Bab and Baha'u'llah themselves. Now I feed on them. Every day! Even as a cow feeds on grass, and a philosopher feeds on intellectualisms. Grass is the stuff cows are made of and intellectual musings are what philosophers feed on. This doesn't mean there isn't value in grass and intellect. Quite the opposite. Both build a physical foundation necessary to get to the next level of reality.

. Without food, our biological self ceases to exist. Without the learning of symbols and language, logic and articulation, we cannot advance intellectually. There is a limit, however, to what grass can provide, which is apparent in the cow. They have attained this limit. Philosophers also attain their limit. At least material philosophers. Baha'u'llah, however, praises those philosophers who are not restrained by human learning. Please read the Tablet of Hikmat one more time...

. It possibly might be your clicker... ;-)

Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh Revealed After the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, Pages 137-152

.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 03:15 PM   #30
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No dear friend most Baha'is study the writings of Baha'u'llah, and expand their knowledge of what He taught, you come upon one quote and then attack it and pull it apart, it is so easy to be negative, and make all kind of disparaging comments. I remember reading that Baha'u'llah said somewhere that if an atom was split man would find a sun within, or something along those lines.

No my friend God's Messenger has knowledge that mankind does not have, but of course you deny God and His messengers. Well dear friend you walk your path and I will walk mine, for surely the day is coming when you and I will know for sure.
Bill One of my Favorites from the Seven Valleys and the Four Valleys - It was Baha'u'llah quoting a Persian Mystic Poem Link - Bahá'í Reference Library - The Seven Valleys And the Four Valleys, Pages 11-17

Split the atom’s heart, and lo!
Within it thou wilt find a sun.

Way before science came to the same conclusion!

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 09-05-2014, 03:25 PM   #31
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Thank you

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Originally Posted by tonyfish58 View Post
Bill One of my Favorites from the Seven Valleys and the Four Valleys - It was Baha'u'llah quoting a Persian Mystic Poem Link - Bahá'í Reference Library - The Seven Valleys And the Four Valleys, Pages 11-17

Split the atom’s heart, and lo!
Within it thou wilt find a sun.

Way before science came to the same conclusion!

God Bless and Regards Tony
Ah Dear Tony, thank you for helping my old failing memory, I knew I had read it some where. Yes the Ocean of Baha'u'llahs teachings are such that to study and learn all takes time and effort, something many critics fail to do, and then make inaccurate statements, something that if we Baha'is did the same, they would pounce on in an instant.

Ah I am so happy with my knowledge and understanding of Baha.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 03:30 PM   #32
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Bill One of my Favorites from the Seven Valleys and the Four Valleys - It was Baha'u'llah quoting a Persian Mystic Poem Link - Bahá'í Reference Library - The Seven Valleys And the Four Valleys, Pages 11-17

Split the atom’s heart, and lo!
Within it thou wilt find a sun.

Way before science came to the same conclusion!

God Bless and Regards Tony
That doesn't mean, again, that this was specifically predicted to unleash a city destroying explosion. That is just your interpretation of it. For instance, it could easily be said, that because atoms were known to be the basic unit of life (nobody knew what they looked like) since about the 3rd century BC in Greece, the Persian mystics meant that there was a "sun" meaning the energy of life in the same way the sun spreads light and energy on Earth.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 03:43 PM   #33
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That doesn't mean, again, that this was specifically predicted to unleash a city destroying explosion. That is just your interpretation of it. For instance, it could easily be said, that because atoms were known to be the basic unit of life (nobody knew what they looked like) since about the 3rd century BC in Greece, the Persian mystics meant that there was a "sun" meaning the energy of life in the same way the sun spreads light and energy on Earth.
Dear friend you can refuse to accept any proof that is OK, it is up to you, we do not have to prove anything to you, it is your choice to prove for yourself.

Have you not read of Abdul-Baha and how he made all the pilgrims and visitors leave his side and leave Israel, and why because he knew that the world war was about to start, no one could have predicted this, but he knew.

But of course that would mean nothing to you. I wonder what enjoyment you receive by being in the forum just to disbelieve every thing you are told, just study the writings, do not listen to us lesser mortals, you have far more wisdom
 
Old 09-05-2014, 04:12 PM   #34
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Dear friend you can refuse to accept any proof that is OK, it is up to you, we do not have to prove anything to you, it is your choice to prove for yourself.

Have you not read of Abdul-Baha and how he made all the pilgrims and visitors leave his side and leave Israel, and why because he knew that the world war was about to start, no one could have predicted this, but he knew.

But of course that would mean nothing to you. I wonder what enjoyment you receive by being in the forum just to disbelieve every thing you are told, just study the writings, do not listen to us lesser mortals, you have far more wisdom
If prophecies were more specific- such as saying that "a world war will start on August 28th, 1914 due to the assassination of an Austrian Archduke" instead of just feeling that there will be war, maybe, in a continent that was scrambling for control of Africa and was forming dangerous alliances that could have been tripped easily at any year in the early 1900s- then I think I would be inclined to believe them more.

In fact, when I was a seeker, the Thief in the Night and its story of the Daniel prophecy as it related to the year 1844 and the like almost convinced me to become a Baha'i by itself. That didn't mean, however, that was the only evidence I considered when I eventually decided that the Baha'i Faith wasn't for me- and the fact that Christian prophecies are retconning the Jewish faith isn't the only reason I dislike Christianity.

Last edited by SmilingSkeptic; 09-05-2014 at 04:22 PM.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 04:23 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by SmilingSkeptic View Post
If prophecies were more specific- such as saying that "a world war will start on August 28th, 1914 due to the assassination instead of just feeling that there will be war, maybe, in a continent that was scrambling for control of Africa and was forming dangerous alliances that could have been tripped easily at any year in the early 1900s- then I think I would be inclined to believe them more.

In fact, when I was a seeker, the Thief in the Night and its story of the Daniel prophecy as it related to the year 1844 and the like almost convinced me to become a Baha'i by itself. That didn't mean, however, that was the only evidence I considered when I eventually decided that the Baha'i Faith wasn't for me- and the fact that Christian prophecies are retconning the Jewish faith isn't the only reason I dislike Christianity.
Well dear friend nothing God does is going to help you I am afraid, as He does not work the way you want.

Best wishes to you.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 04:32 PM   #36
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If a persons faith is based on prophecies alone it would be very shallow. The Baha'i Faith and my efforts to live it are what define me
 
Old 09-05-2014, 04:32 PM   #37
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Well dear friend nothing God does is going to help you I am afraid, as He does not work the way you want.

Best wishes to you.
Can you explain why that is? I personally think that being more literal and direct would have saved a lot of headaches...but I'm open to being changed on this point.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 06:58 PM   #38
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Can you explain why that is? I personally think that being more literal and direct would have saved a lot of headaches...but I'm open to being changed on this point.
Dear SmilingSkeptic - The answer is Given by Scripture to this very good question. Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 3-41

"........Meditate profoundly, that the secret of things unseen may be revealed unto you, that you may inhale the sweetness of a spiritual and imperishable fragrance, and that you may acknowledge the truth that from time immemorial even unto eternity the Almighty hath tried, and will continue to try, His servants, so that light may be distinguished from darkness, truth from falsehood, right from wrong, guidance from error, happiness from misery, and roses from thorns. Even as He hath revealed: “Do men think when they say ‘We believe’ they shall be let alone and not be put to proof?..........”

Free Will is the bounty, but progress of mankind is dependent on using that free will to obtain God Given Virtues. Free will is what makes us, if even the weight of an Atom of this Free Will is taken away then the purpose God has for Man would be no more.

We have to learn how to use our free will, it will take a lot more time, but we can do it in peace! Our next Goal is Unity - May God let it be. Prayers and good actions can attract other like mined individuals.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 09-05-2014, 07:01 PM   #39
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Dear SmilingSkeptic - The answer is Given by Scripture to this very good question. Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 3-41

"........Meditate profoundly, that the secret of things unseen may be revealed unto you, that you may inhale the sweetness of a spiritual and imperishable fragrance, and that you may acknowledge the truth that from time immemorial even unto eternity the Almighty hath tried, and will continue to try, His servants, so that light may be distinguished from darkness, truth from falsehood, right from wrong, guidance from error, happiness from misery, and roses from thorns. Even as He hath revealed: “Do men think when they say ‘We believe’ they shall be let alone and not be put to proof?..........”

Free Will is the bounty, but progress of mankind is dependent on using that free will to obtain God Given Virtues. Free will is what makes us, if even the weight of an Atom of this Free Will is taken away then the purpose God has for Man would be no more.

We have to learn how to use our free will, it will take a lot more time, but we can do it in peace! Our next Goal is Unity - May God let it be. Prayers and good actions can attract other like mined individuals.

God Bless and Regards Tony
I don't see why direct and obvious knowledge of God's existence couldn't go hand in hand with free will. The only reason it seems that this would be a problem is because people say it's a problem, without much proof. I can know there's a police force for such, yet choose to disobey the law and suffer the consequences of such.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 07:23 PM   #40
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Good morning SmilingSkeptic

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmilingSkeptic View Post
Can you explain why that is? I personally think that being more literal and direct would have saved a lot of headaches...
Pointless.

1. Of what value or use is it to give us free will, then not allow us to use it. That is one of the reasons you are an atheist, and I am not.

2. Name me the CEO of any large organisation who does every task in the organisation. I'll pre-empt, and answer that straight away. Not one. The term used is 'delegate'. Another term in a similar sense is 'empower'.

3. What is the difference between a slave and a servant?

With warm greetings

Romane
 
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