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Old 10-22-2012, 09:43 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magi728 View Post
Say, Lo! The Father is come, and that which
ye were promised in the Kingdom is fulfilled!



Baha'u'llah's .... Tablet to the Christians
What does that mean, the Father is come? Isn't that God? You don't mean Baha'u'llah, do you?
 
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Old 10-22-2012, 10:38 AM   #42
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A Title

Ponder ... Seeker..

Just as Melchisedec is a title For the Priest of the Most High God.

As Krishna is the Anointed of God.

As Buddha is The Enlightenment of God.


Baha'u'llah is a title, for The Glory of the Father, Or... The Glory of God.


With Love,


Magi.......
 
Old 10-22-2012, 10:47 AM   #43
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Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in.. the Glory of his Father.

Or The Title. The Glory of the Father. The Glory of The Lord, The Glory of God...... All Titles, Spoken in English as, The Baha'u'llah.

Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the Name of
* My God */ Jesus has a God / And His God Has a Name./

...and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him * My New Name. *



With love,



Magi.......Say, O followers of the Son! Have ye shut out yourselves from Me by reason of My Name? Wherefore ponder ye not in your hearts? Day and night ye have been calling upon your Lord, the Omnipotent, but when He came from the heaven of eternity in His great glory, ye turned aside from Him and remained sunk in heedlessness. Baha'u'llah.......

Last edited by Magi728; 10-22-2012 at 10:53 AM.
 
Old 10-22-2012, 10:51 AM   #44
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John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to My God, and your God.





Magi.......
 
Old 10-22-2012, 11:13 AM   #45
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The Progressive Voice of God .... Arrives.... as recurring Manifestations...
Through out the ages....His Many Titles...and Many Crowns....


Ponder.


Revelation 19:12
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that [ no man knew, ]

but He Himself.......




With Love,



Magi.......
 
Old 10-22-2012, 11:44 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magi728 View Post
The Progressive Voice of God .... Arrives.... as recurring Manifestations...
Through out the ages....His Many Titles...and Many Crowns....


Ponder.


Revelation 19:12
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that [ no man knew, ]

but He Himself.......




With Love,



Magi.......
Are all of the manif. the same but different? Are they all the son of God? I'm reading Jesus and Muhammad by F.E. Peters. I'm at the part where Gabriel speaks to Muhammad and he gets taken to the seventh heaven and God talks to him. Is he prophesied in the Christian Bible?
 
Old 10-23-2012, 04:07 AM   #47
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Quote:
Are all of the manif. the same but different? Are they all the son of God?
Yes the Same Spiritual Voice of God. Yet, Different only in the Material aspects, Laws, Creeds...Ect. Which tend to Change or Progress with Time.

No All do not hold the same title...as I Posted Above.

Ex: Muhammad -- Seal of the Prophets --

With Love,



Magi.......
 
Old 10-23-2012, 04:13 AM   #48
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Quote:
Is he prophesied in the Christian Bible?

Opinions Differ, But Yes I See That Most of the Book of Revelation as a Prophecy of The Rise of Islam....of Bábí...of Bahai...And The Even More Arriving...




Magi.......
 
Old 10-23-2012, 04:38 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magi728 View Post
Opinions Differ, But Yes I See That Most of the Book of Revelation as a Prophecy of The Rise of Islam....of Bábí...of Bahai...And The Even More Arriving...




Magi.......
Well, now, THAT is something to thing about. I have never understood the book of Revelation. Equally "brilliant" scholars say such different things about the symbolism and have such vastly different interpretations, that I did not think any of them were correct. Now, I have your version to investigate. Has anyone written a book on this?
 
Old 10-23-2012, 04:39 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Magi728 View Post
Yes the Same Spiritual Voice of God. Yet, Different only in the Material aspects, Laws, Creeds...Ect. Which tend to Change or Progress with Time.

No All do not hold the same title...as I Posted Above.

Ex: Muhammad -- Seal of the Prophets --

With Love,



Magi.......
What do you think "seal of the prophets" means?
 
Old 10-23-2012, 04:52 AM   #51
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Greetings! :-)

We Baha'is teach that all the major religions of the world are divine in origin, sent by God as stages in a single divine plan. (There is only one Faith, the Faith of God.)

A Divine Messenger has a dual station; He is both a man (who was born, died, etc.) and also a Manifestation of the eternal spirit of God. He may be likened to a mirror reflecting the sun. It is correct to point to the mirror and say, "That is the sun." It is also correct to say "That's not the sun, only a mirror." Thus Jesus said, "Why callest thou Me good? There is none good but the Father in Heaven" (Jesus the man speaking), but also said "Before Abraham was, I am" and "No one comes to the Father but by Me" (the eternal spirit speaking, here called "Christ"). This latter "but by Me" quote refers to the fact that only through these Messengers can humankind know God.

In the Baha'i scriptures, it's expressed like this:

[quote]
{161}[I]t is evident ...that the Bearers of the trust of God are made manifest unto the peoples of the earth as the Exponents of a new Cause and the Bearers of a new Message. Inasmuch as these Birds of the Celestial Throne are all sent down from the heaven of the Will of God, and as they all arise to proclaim His irresistible Faith, they therefore are regarded as one soul and the same person. For they all drink from the one Cup of the love of God, and all partake of the fruit of the same Tree of Oneness. These Manifestations of God have each a twofold station. One is the station of pure abstraction and essential unity. In this respect, if thou callest them all by one name, and dost ascribe to them the same attribute, thou hast not erred from the truth. Even as He hath revealed: "No distinction do We make between any of His Messengers!" For they one and all summon the people of the earth to acknowledge the Unity of God, and herald unto them the [river] of an infinite grace and bounty. They are all invested with the robe of Prophethood, and honoured with the mantle of glory. Thus hath Muhammad, the Point of the Qur'an, revealed: "I am all the Prophets." Likewise, He saith: "I am the first Adam, Noah, Moses, and Jesus."... Sayings such as this, which indicate the essential unity of those Exponents of Oneness, have also emanated from the Channels of God's immortal utterance, and the Treasuries of the gems of divine knowledge, and have been recorded in the scriptures. These Countenances are the recipients of the Divine Command, and the day-springs of His Revelation. This Revelation is exalted above the veils of plurality and the exigencies of number. Thus He saith: "Our Cause is but one." Inasmuch as the Cause is one and the same, the Exponents thereof also must needs be one and the same...

{162}It is clear and evident ... that all the Prophets are the Temples of the Cause of God, Who have appeared clothed in divers attire. If thou wilt observe with discriminating eyes, thou wilt behold them all abiding in the same tabernacle, soaring in the same heaven, seated upon the same throne, uttering the same speech, and proclaiming the same Faith. Such is the unity of those Essences of being, those Luminaries of infinite and immeasurable splendour. Wherefore, should one of these Manifestations of Holiness proclaim saying: "I am the return of all the Prophets," He verily speaketh the truth. In like manner, in every subsequent Revelation, the return of the former Revelation is a fact...

{191}We have already in the foregoing pages assigned two stations unto each of the Luminaries arising from the Daysprings of eternal holiness. One of these stations, the station of essential unity, We have already explained. "No distinction do We make between any of them." The other is the station of distinction, and pertaineth to the world of creation and to the limitations thereof. In this respect, each Manifestation of God hath a distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a predestined Revelation, and specially designated limitations. Each one of them is known by a different name, is characterized by a special attribute, fulfils a definite Mission, and is entrusted with a particular Revelation. Even as He saith: "Some of the Apostles We have caused to excel the others. To some God hath spoken, some He hath raised and exalted. And to Jesus, Son of Mary, We gave manifest signs, and We strengthened Him with the Holy Spirit."

{192}It is because of this difference in their station and mission that the words and utterances flowing from these Well-springs of divine knowledge appear to diverge and differ. Otherwise, in the eyes of them that are initiated into the mysteries of divine wisdom, all their utterances are in reality but the expressions of one Truth. As most of the people have failed to appreciate those stations to which We have referred, they therefore feel perplexed and dismayed at the varying utterances pronounced by Manifestations that are essentially one and the same....

{196}Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: "I am God!" He verily speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto. For it hath been repeatedly demonstrated that through their Revelation, their attributes and names, the Revelation of God, His name and His attributes, are made manifest in the world. Thus, He hath revealed: "Those shafts were God's, not Thine!" And also He saith: "In truth, they who plighted fealty unto thee, really plighted that fealty unto God." And were any of them to voice the utterance: "I am the Messenger of God," He also speaketh the truth, the indubitable truth... For they are all but one person, one soul, one spirit, one being, one revelation. They are all the manifestation of the "Beginning" and the "End," the "First" and the "Last," the "Seen" and "Hidden" - all of which pertain to Him Who is the innermost Spirit of Spirits and eternal Essence of Essences. And were they to say: "We are the servants of God," this also is a manifest and indisputable fact. For they have been made manifest in the uttermost state of servitude, a servitude the like of which no man can possibly attain. Thus in moments in which these Essences of being were deeply immersed beneath the oceans of ancient and everlasting holiness, or when they soared to the loftiest summits of divine mysteries, they claimed their utterance to be the Voice of divinity, the Call of God Himself. Were the eye of discernment to be opened, it would recognize that in this very state, they have considered themselves utterly effaced and non-existent in the face of Him Who is the All-Pervading, the Incorruptible. Methinks, they have regarded themselves as utter nothingness, and deemed their mention in that Court an act of blasphemy. For the slightest whispering of self, within such a Court, is an evidence of self-assertion and independent existence. In the eyes of them that have attained unto that Court, such a suggestion is itself a grievous transgression. How much more grievous would it be, were aught else to be mentioned in that Presence, were man's heart, his tongue, his mind, or his soul, to be busied with anyone but the Well-Beloved, were his eyes to behold any countenance other than His beauty, were his ear to be inclined to any melody but His voice, and were his feet to tread any way but His way.

—(The Book of Certitude, pages 152-154, 176-180)
[end quote]

Indeed, Baha'u'llah Himself says:

[quote]
“When I contemplate, O my God, the relationship that bindeth me to Thee, I am moved to proclaim to all created things ‘verily I am God!’; and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!”
—(Baha'u'llah, p. 26)
[end quote]

(BTW, in answer to another question you asked, Muhammad is mentioned once in the Bible, but not by name.)

Peace, :-)

Bruce
 
Old 10-23-2012, 05:12 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by BruceDLimber View Post

Greetings! :-)

(BTW, in answer to another question you asked, Muhammad is mentioned once in the Bible, but not by name.)

Peace, :-)

Bruce
Thank you for the verses. I have that book and will read on it more. Where is M. mentioned in the Bible?

Last edited by GenuineSeeker; 10-23-2012 at 06:18 AM.
 
Old 10-23-2012, 06:15 AM   #53
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Bahá'u'lláh has said:

These principles and laws, these firmly-established and mighty systems, have proceeded from one Source and are the rays of one Light. That they differ one from another is to be attributed to the varying requirements of the ages in which they were promulgated.




Magi.......
 
Old 10-23-2012, 06:21 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magi728 View Post
Bahá'u'lláh has said:

These principles and laws, these firmly-established and mighty systems, have proceeded from one Source and are the rays of one Light. That they differ one from another is to be attributed to the varying requirements of the ages in which they were promulgated.




Magi.......
Peters says Muslims contend that the seal of the prophets means M. is the last prophet, but that flies in the face of the claim or prophecy that others in M.'s line will follow him. What is your understanding of that phrase?
 
Old 10-23-2012, 06:24 AM   #55
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Religious history is seen as a succession of revelations from God and I Believe in the Reality of "progressive revelation" ...



Quote:
Well, now, THAT is something to thing about. I have never understood the book of Revelation. Equally "brilliant" scholars say such different things about the symbolism and have such vastly different interpretations, that I did not think any of them were correct. Now, I have your version to investigate. Has anyone written a book on this?
Yes there are many different interpretations, I agree.. As to a Book Written
One of the Many opinions is written by Robert Riggs. In Which I Found Very Activating to say the least.

Remember to Self Investigate ....Seeker...

Here is the Link...

Apocalypse 1


With Love,



Magi.......

Last edited by Magi728; 10-23-2012 at 06:33 AM.
 
Old 10-23-2012, 06:32 AM   #56
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I See a End to Certain Prophetic Cycles, M . Being the Seal of that Prophetic age.

But, I Truly Believe in * Progressive Revelation *...

Meaning God Speaks through All of Us...In Our Search For Truth.

We Self Investigate, And Have Fellowship one with another, Progressing our Understanding, Together, In Unity with The Spirit of Truth.

Who Delivers The Even More .. Arriving ..


With Love, Seeker.


Magi.......
 
Old 10-23-2012, 06:36 AM   #57
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Seeker

Ponder This Passage..


1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we *the sons of God *, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Yes.. * we shall be like him *



With Love,



Magi.......

Last edited by Magi728; 10-23-2012 at 06:54 AM.
 
Old 10-23-2012, 06:53 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magi728 View Post
Ponder This Passage..


1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we *the sons of God *, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.


With Love,



Magi.......
I will think on it. Thank you.
 
Old 10-23-2012, 09:57 AM   #59
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You are Welcome, Seeker

It is Nice Having Fellowship with you, such a kind hearted soul.



Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God

With Love,



Magi.......
 
Old 10-24-2012, 05:42 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by GenuineSeeker View Post
Where is [Muhammad] mentioned in the Bible?
In the Baha'i view, the two witnesses mentioned in Revelation are Muhammad and 'Ali.

You can read about this at:

Bahá'í Library Online

in the "Books" section: please see Robert Riggs' The Apocalypse: An Exegesis, where each chapter corresponds to the same chapter in the Book of Revelation.

Peace, :-)

Bruce


Peace, :-)

Bruce

Last edited by BruceDLimber; 10-24-2012 at 05:44 AM.
 
Old 10-24-2012, 11:42 AM   #61
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Thanks Magi and Bruce

I have a lot of reading to do before commenting again.
 
Old 10-24-2012, 04:12 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magi728 View Post
Ponder This Passage..


1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we *the sons of God *, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

Yes.. * we shall be like him *



With Love,



Magi.......
Theosis not ontological equality with God.
 
Old 10-25-2012, 04:48 AM   #63
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Yes

Romans 8:19
For the earnest expectation of * the creature * waiteth for the * Manifestation of the sons of God */// The Bənê hāʼElōhîm





Magi.......
 
Old 10-25-2012, 05:03 AM   #64
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Ponder ..

Job 38:7
When the Morning Stars sang together, and All the sons of God///Bənê hāʼElōhîm/// .... shouted for Joy...





Magi.......
 
Old 10-25-2012, 05:08 AM   #65
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Icon..

Revelation 22:16
I Jesus have * sent mine Angel * to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the offspring of David, and the Bright and Morning Star





Magi.......When the Morning Stars sang together, and All the sons of God .... shouted for Joy...
 
Old 10-26-2012, 08:16 PM   #66
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As Bahais, we believe in nine divine representatives who brought revelations and an unknown number of divine representatives who only confirmed current revelations. Since Joseph Smith is not among the nine, then I consider him as a false divine representative.
 
Old 10-27-2012, 03:43 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magi728 View Post
The Progressive Voice of God .... Arrives.... as recurring Manifestations...
Through out the ages....His Many Titles...and Many Crowns....


Ponder.


Revelation 19:12
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that [ no man knew, ]

but He Himself.......




With Love,



Magi.......
Are you saying that the many crowns has a symbolic meaning?
 
Old 10-27-2012, 03:46 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Magi728 View Post
Icon..

Revelation 22:16
I Jesus have * sent mine Angel * to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the offspring of David, and the Bright and Morning Star





Magi.......When the Morning Stars sang together, and All the sons of God .... shouted for Joy...
I do know that stars, sons of God, manifestations, and angels are all different beings. Right? Would you define them, please, so we are talking about the same thing?
 
Old 10-27-2012, 03:57 AM   #69
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As Bahais, we believe in nine divine representatives who brought revelations and an unknown number of divine representatives who only confirmed current revelations. Since Joseph Smith is not among the nine, then I consider him as a false divine representative.
This is very comforting. Not that I have any ill-will towards mormons. I don't. But, after studying Smith, I find it difficult to value his contribution due to his convenient revelations after he had begun to take other wife-servants. He knew it was wrong or he wouldn't have hidden it for 20 years before announcing his "revelation" about polygamy.

This mirrors some of Muhammad's revelations after he wanted more than two wives. I'm going to have to look at the timeline, but he was mostly peace loving before his first wife died with whom he was monogamous. There appears to be a tie in between aggressive conquering mentality and taking more wives.
 
Old 10-27-2012, 09:22 AM   #70
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I think in the case of Joseph Smith we Baha'is proabbly wouldn't use the term "false prophet"..that's probably more of a Christian view... rather we would suggest Joseph Smith was more along the lines of someone stirred by the currents of the time and a seer..

"As for the status of Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormon Faith, he is not considered by Bahá'ís to be a prophet, minor or otherwise. But of course he was a religious teacher sensitive to the spiritual currents flowing in the early 19th century directly from the appearance of the Báb and Bahá'u'lláh and the Revelation of Their Messages of hope and Divine Guidance. In this respect you might find chapter ten in the late Hand of the Cause George Townshend's book, 'Christ and Bahá'u'lláh,' interesting."

(From a letter written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to an individual believer, February 7, 1977)

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 510)

There were other figures in the early nineteenth cwentury who would say could have been stirred by the currents of the age such as William Miller prophesied the return of Christ in 1844.

I would reject the suggestion that the later wives of Prophet Muhammad had anything to do with an "aggressive conquering mentality" or compare it to the polygamy adopted by the early Mormons.
 
Old 10-28-2012, 05:00 AM   #71
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I think in the case of Joseph Smith we Baha'is proabbly wouldn't use the term "false prophet"..that's probably more of a Christian view... rather we would suggest Joseph Smith was more along the lines of someone stirred by the currents of the time and a seer..
This brings up another thought. Perhaps you could elucidate on a similar timeframe in the not too distant past. Do you remember the California hippie commune love communities that sprang up in the 60s? And the "Groovy Christians of Rye NY" of the same era? This was more of a Christian movement, but several charismatic teachers formed Christian groups from this communal living, love wave. Was there something "in the air" at that time, as well?
 
Old 11-09-2012, 01:27 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by Iconodule View Post
Yes all Christians do believe Christ is God. No Christian believes he became God. That is a strawman. The Jehovahs witnesses are not Christian. The arrians are not Christian. And yes I do think I can represent Christians on this most important matter because all the ancinet communions, all the new churches agree with this. At least hte ones that are Christian.

ButI look at Christianity Seeker, as a historic entity and trinity and the deity of Christ proceed out of that historic entity everytime it is examined.
I don't personally know any JWs, but I do know some very strong Christians who believe in God, the Father, Jesus, His son, and in the power of the Holy Spirit. They think they are Christians. They study the Bible everyday and live by it. I was at their house last night. They love me and are very dear friends and have been since college days. They are the most loyal, kind, honest, loving friends I've ever had. In my opinion, they live Christ's love far superior to anyone I've ever known. I'm sure they would turn the other cheek if they knew you think they aren't Christian.

Last edited by GenuineSeeker; 11-09-2012 at 02:02 AM.
 
Old 11-09-2012, 06:36 AM   #73
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I've lived in close proximity with Mormons most of my life. I've found them generally to be pleasant people with whom I have no quarrel.

As to Joseph Smith, my own personal thought is that he was trying to reform Christianity, which in his day, was viciously sectarian.
 
Old 03-07-2016, 08:56 AM   #74
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I believe Joseph Smith would be considered a reformer, not a prophet; like Wesley and Luther. They felt that Christianity had gone off track, and needed redirection. Joseph Smith did not bring a new Faith, a new dispensation. He believed that the Christian Church had lost it way, and he changed things up...a LOT. But Mormons still believe in Jesus, and that they are Christian. Their view of God and the afterlife, is extremely different.

Loving regards,
Becky
 
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