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Old 02-24-2015, 05:29 AM   #1
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Question Why has the Guardian never visit USA or Canada?

Why has the Guardian never visit USA or Canada?
 
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Old 02-24-2015, 05:52 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton View Post
Why has the Guardian never visit USA or Canada?
Quite a good question, especially as his wife was Canadian. I guess the only good answer is that he didn't deem it necessary.

gnat
 
Old 02-24-2015, 06:20 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Anton View Post
Why has the Guardian never visit USA or Canada?
Maybe because he was so busy running the faith he did not have time before he died.

You do know he has passed on, don't you? The wording of your question is such that you may not be aware? You ask why has, instead of why didn't he.
 
Old 02-24-2015, 07:24 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
Maybe because he was so busy running the faith he did not have time before he died.

You do know he has passed on, don't you? The wording of your question is such that you may not be aware? You ask why has, instead of why didn't he.
Please, blame for the wording my poor English. Yes, I know that he has passed on.
 
Old 02-24-2015, 08:51 AM   #5
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Please, blame for the wording my poor English. Yes, I know that he has passed on.
Ok dear friend, and there is no blame, if I were to correspond here in Spanish a language I strive to learn, I would make many errors also. sigh

I feel one has to consider the volume of work the dear Guardian had, as to why He did not travel so much, also if He did travel to the countries you mention what of all the other countries, would they not feel left out? Why didn't He visit Chile, why not Australia, or Mongolia? I feel there was a wisdom in all His actions.

Loving regards to you.
bill
 
Old 02-24-2015, 09:15 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
I feel one has to consider the volume of work the dear Guardian had, as to why He did not travel so much, also if He did travel to the countries you mention what of all the other countries, would they not feel left out? Why didn't He visit Chile, why not Australia, or Mongolia? I feel there was a wisdom in all His actions.
It would be good to understand that wisdom you mentioned. The Guardian had plenty of time to travel extensively to Europe and Africa. So I thought it would be interesting to know why he didn't visit once the land of birth of Administrative Order and the largest at that time (except maybe for Iran) Baha’i community? For example, the official opening of the Mother Temple of the West seemed a legitimate occasion to me.
 
Old 02-24-2015, 11:21 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Anton View Post
It would be good to understand that wisdom you mentioned. The Guardian had plenty of time to travel extensively to Europe and Africa. So I thought it would be interesting to know why he didn't visit once the land of birth of Administrative Order and the largest at that time (except maybe for Iran) Baha’i community? For example, the official opening of the Mother Temple of the West seemed a legitimate occasion to me.
Maybe is your test?

I do not have any more knowledge of why than you or anyone else.
I am content.
 
Old 02-24-2015, 02:18 PM   #8
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The Master spread the Faith by travelling and The Guardian spread the Faith by giving us beautiful translations of the revealed word
 
Old 02-24-2015, 06:25 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton View Post
It would be good to understand that wisdom you mentioned. The Guardian had plenty of time to travel extensively to Europe and Africa. So I thought it would be interesting to know why he didn't visit once the land of birth of Administrative Order and the largest at that time (except maybe for Iran) Baha’i community? For example, the official opening of the Mother Temple of the West seemed a legitimate occasion to me.
Travel to Europe and Africa in those times was much faster than a trip across the wide oceans to America.

I would suggest that extended travel would have seriously depleted the Guardians ability to complete the workload He had.

I would never suggest that the Guardian had ample.time for this travel. He did all that he could do and a lot of the time more than any other Human could achieve in the given lifetime.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 02-25-2015, 04:57 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
Maybe is your test?

I do not have any more knowledge of why than you or anyone else.
I am content.
There is much truth in this. It is a test to every Bahá'í to come to terms with, and understand, the logic of the different ministries: Báb, Bahá'u'lláh, 'Abdu'l-Bahá, Shoghi Effendi, the ministry of the Hands of the Cause, and the UHJ.

Those who try to drive in wedges in our belief in the continuity of the Faith, try to make us look at a certain shift in authority in the history of the Faith, and say, "That's when the true Faith was betrayed". Now and then, when I have had my doubts, I have gone through the documentation, the Testaments, etc, and come out reassured. It is really fascinating to see how the methods of management of the Faith have changed with each of these shifts, and then to try to understand the logic of these changes.

So, now that I come across some decision or lack of decision-making on the part of the leadership of our Faith, I try to figure out the logic. There are all kinds of such questions, and it's really elucidating to study them in depth.

In this case, one factor is crucial. 'Abdu'l-Bahá was a public speaker. Shoghi Effendi was not. His task was another: to raise the organizational framework of the Faith, and to translate and edit the Scriptures in order to make them accessible. In other words: the good question is "Why wasn't it necessary for the Guardian to visit America?"

gnat
 
Old 02-25-2015, 11:06 AM   #11
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One must consider that the Guardian had the arm of the learned and that he extended that arm.

This arm was able to impart the Will and Intent of the Guardian on His behalf, thus freeing His time to build the Administrative Order.

There is no Flaw to what has happened, just a deficiency on our part in Vision and Understanding.

Dear friends, never look for fault or flaw look forward to the ultimate goal, The Unity of Mankind culminating in the Most Great Peace.

God bless all with Unity in Serried Lines - Regards Tony
 
Old 02-25-2015, 09:19 PM   #12
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The Big "If"

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfish58 View Post
One must consider that the Guardian had the arm of the learned and that he extended that arm.

This arm was able to impart the Will and Intent of the Guardian on His behalf, thus freeing His time to build the Administrative Order.

There is no Flaw to what has happened, just a deficiency on our part in Vision and Understanding.

Dear friends, never look for fault or flaw look forward to the ultimate goal, The Unity of Mankind culminating in the Most Great Peace.

God bless all with Unity in Serried Lines - Regards Tony

"If" we didn't "get it" from Abdul Baha's 9 month journey here, we wouldn't get it from Shoghi Effendi coming here either.

"Whatever God hath willed hath been, and that which He hath not willed shall never be. There is no power nor strength except in God, the Most Exalted, the Most Mighty." The Bab

.
 
Old 02-26-2015, 02:19 AM   #13
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Greetings Anton,

Before beginning It should be born in mind that Shoghi Effendi was an Iranian with an Iranian held passport. During his entire life time he never saw his home country.

'Abdu'l-Baha, in defending the Faith, wrote an interesting letter to the early believers in North American asking them to deny anyone claiming to have been sent by Him into their homes unless they carried a letter of introduction personally signed by Him. Interestingly, this letter also specifically stated they should deny Shoghi Effendi entrance too unless he carried such a letter. It is rather interesting that 'Abdu'l-Baha would have referred to Shoghi Effendi by name like this before the station of the Guardian was ever known about or conferred upon him. In many ways it allows us to understand that Shoghi Effendi was destined to face challenges just like everyone else and that therefore the role of the Guardian had to be earned.

Shoghi Effendi was scheduled to accompany 'Abdu'l-Baha on His western travels, which of course included the US and Canada, but the actions of a few questionable Baha'is, prevented this from transpiring.

Your question then as to why Shoghi Effendi, in the role as the Guardian, never visited the US and Canada is an interesting one to contemplate on. Fortunately a presentation made by Emeric Sala in Ottawa on the 9th Annual ABS conference offers us a clue. But before you open up the link to either read it or listen to the MP3 file, please allow me to echo a question the Guardian posed to Sala in Haifa, because this way you may begin to see the answer to your question:

"Since after the martyrdom of the Bab the authority of the Faith was passed on to Baha'u'llah, after His passing to 'Abdu'l-Baha, to whom was it transferred to after the Accension of 'Abdu'l-Baha?"

Think about this question posed by the Guardian to Sala and think how you might have answered it before proceeding. This way, after you have read the link below, you may be in a better position to answer your original question for yourself.

Naturally I wish you well in reading the following link, but unfortunately it is all in English. Take your time, because some things are worth the study, even pilgrim notes.

Shoghi Effendi's Question

Earth

Last edited by Earth; 02-26-2015 at 02:22 AM.
 
Old 02-26-2015, 05:45 AM   #14
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Dear Earth
Thank you for this most interesting post.
 
Old 02-26-2015, 06:01 AM   #15
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Dear Earth, thank you! It gives a sound explanation to my question. I’m not sure that it is the sufficient answer but it works for me for the time being.
I also like dale ramsdell’s phrase: “"If" we didn't "get it" from Abdul Baha's 9 month journey here, we wouldn't get it from Shoghi Effendi coming here either.”
gnat also poses a valid question: "Why wasn't it necessary for the Guardian to visit America?" But it excludes many very earthly and simple possible answers, like problems with Iranian passport or getting visa, for example.
Thank you all friends here for your contribution!
 
Old 02-11-2016, 04:43 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth View Post
but the actions of a few questionable Baha'is, prevented this from transpiring.
Any more details about this? I read "health officials" told him he had trachoma on the first leg of his journey to America in Prelude to the Guardianship. He was sent back. Doctors later told him he didn't have it. So a few Baha'is lied and told these health officials he had trachoma?

Last edited by ahanu; 02-11-2016 at 04:47 PM.
 
Old 02-11-2016, 05:25 PM   #17
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Any more details about this? I read "health officials" told him he had trachoma on the first leg of his journey to America in Prelude to the Guardianship. He was sent back. Doctors later told him he didn't have it. So a few Baha'is lied and told these health officials he had trachoma?
I read about that incident. I think it was in the book by Dr. Youness Khan-i-Afrukhtih. As far as I can recall, it was a little internal plot among the companions of 'Abdu'l-Bahá.

gnat
 
Old 02-12-2016, 11:46 AM   #18
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Greetings Ahanu,

Not all stories are as they appear to be because some people sought to obtain power and influence for themselves, so they had no reservations impeding the wishes of 'Abdu'l-Bahá or sabotaging His plans. Today when we look back at the Bahá'í Faith it is much more simple for us to understand because we have a much better understanding of the role and position of 'Abdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi.

It should also be known that 'Abdu'l-Bahá wished to visit China. Just think how the history of the Bahá'í Faith could have unfolded if both 'Abdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi were permitted to travel together as they had originally planned.

Sadly not all people that professed to be Bahá'ís were good people. 'Abdu'l-Bahá once explained this very well. He indicated that when He waters the beautiful flowers of the garden He waters the weeds too. I have always liked this analogy because it allows us to understand that there will always be weeds and we should not be too troubled by them. We just need to pluck them from the garden now and then.

'Abdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi always spoke very highly of people's culture and wrote in such ways as to allow people to understand their true qualities. We must always exercise care not to allow a few poor behaved people to misrepresent a culture or a religion.

I will leave you with the words of 'Abdu'l-Bahá talking about the qualities needed to have an impact on Chinese people and you can see for yourself while those that prevented Shoghi Effendi from travelling would not have been worthy of China.

Earth

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pdWfocOBy9U

Last edited by Earth; 02-12-2016 at 11:56 AM.
 
Old 02-15-2016, 10:48 AM   #19
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Dear friend why didn't this or that.
My grandmothers answer was
Because Y is a crooked letter and a W is no better.
In other words stop asking why when no answer is available.
bill
 
Old 02-15-2016, 10:56 AM   #20
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Now I've found it. It's in The Prieceless Pearl:

"What this journey to the West in the presence of 'Abdu'l-Bahá would have meant to Shoghi Effendi is incalculable, but it was prevented by the machinations of one who later became a perfidious and despicable Covenant-breaker, Dr Amin Fareed, the nephew of 'Abdu'l-Bahá's wife, who caused Him such constant distress that Shoghi Effendi said when the Master returned at length to His home in Haifa on 5 December 1913, He proceeded at once to the room of His wife, sat down and said with a feeble voice, accompanied by a gesture of His hand, "Doctor Fareed has ground me down!" There was never any doubt in Shoghi Effendi's mind that it was due to Fareed that he was prevented from making this historic journey."

gnat
 
Old 02-22-2016, 06:53 PM   #21
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Anton:

I have been pondering off and on for a few days your question, “Why has the Guardian never visit USA or Canada?” Ruhiyyih (Mary Maxwell) Khanum’s book, The Priceless Pearl touches on something closely related to your question. She wrote: “A mutually trusting and tender relationship grew up between the young Guardian and those he called ‘the children of 'Abdu'l-Bahá’ from the very first moment they heard he had been named the Master's successor.” She also wrote: "In one of his earliest letters as Guardian, addressed to the New York Spiritual Assembly in 1923, Shoghi Effendi states in a few words his attitude towards America, an attitude that never altered until the end of his life: 'Conscious of the clear and emphatic predictions of our beloved Master as to the predominant part of the West is destined to play during the early stages in the universal triumph of the Movement, I have, ever since His departure, turned my eyes in hopeful expectation to the distant shores of that continent...' 'How often', he wrote to the American National Assembly that same year, 'I have wished and yearned to be nearer to the field of your activities and thus be able to keep in more constant and closer touch with every detail of the manifold and all-important services you render.' " (pp. 339-340)

Not a direct answer to your question, but related. LR
 
Old 02-22-2016, 08:37 PM   #22
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Dr Amin Fareed, the nephew of 'Abdu'l-Bahá's wife, who caused Him such constant distress
Oh, he was the one who stole Abdu'l-Baha's signet ring.
 
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