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Baha'i History Baha'i History: The Báb, Bahá'u'lláh, `Abdu'l-Bahá


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Old 08-20-2015, 09:23 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahanu View Post
Of course. I do this with Islam, Christianity, the Babi Faith, and the Baha'i Faith. To take on another religion with the same amount of in-depth study I give these would prove too much for me. I don't have a strong desire to go beyond Thich Nhat Hanh in understanding Buddhism. Perhaps I would like to learn more about Chan Buddhism. Besides that, I'm not so interested.

As a side note, unless you speak the original language of the scriptures, I believe it is impossible to see the religion without intermediaries (for translators are also intermediaries) coloring it to some degree.

Agreed, all translations inevitably involve interpretations

I was speaking more with reference to secondary and primary sources, however. When possible, nothing can match intimate engagement with a primary text for oneself as opposed to a secondary source, such as an expert's description of a religion, although this is always an indispensable guide and supplement to understanding the given text appropriately.

And yes, I completely understand how tiring it can be trying to learn about the teachings of different religions and the need for prioritization.

Buddhism, nonetheless, is to me a notably interesting religion that has much to offer those of us, even, who do not practise the Buddhist faith.

Last edited by Yeshua; 08-20-2015 at 09:30 AM.
 
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Old 08-20-2015, 09:36 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yeshua View Post
I was speaking more with reference to secondary and primary sources, however. When possible, nothing can match intimate engagement with a primary text for oneself as opposed to a secondary source, such as an expert's description of a religion, although this is always an indispensable guide and supplement to understanding the given text appropriately.
We're on the same page.

 
Old 08-20-2015, 09:59 AM   #83
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Joining vs becoming

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophia View Post
Look. If you want to superimpose a Baha'i interpretation on a Buddhist (or a Catholic or whichever) text, you obviously have the right to do that.

I'm in this discussion because I find such superimpositions to be something that I could not do, and therefore, this is one of the factors that impedes me from becoming Baha'i.

I don't feel like going over actual scriptures of various religions with a red marker and correct them, or add or subtract to them.

But apparently Bahai's do just that, and I'm not comfortable doing that myself.

And saying that you're not the ones doing that, but that you're just following your Baha'i authorities -- if you freely chose the Baha's faith, and are practicing it freely, then you are the ones going over actual scriptures of various religions with a red marker and correct them, or add or subtract to them. Even if you pretend to be hiding behind your authorities.
Sophia,
. People do not "become Baha'i" by "joining a (the) religion", i.e. the Baha'i Faith, as a seed does not become a tree by joining the soil.

. "Recognition" of Baha'u'llah as the Manifestation of God for the Age is required, and whatever impedes this, like the seed being in the shadow of a rock, must be overcome. All who recognize Baha'u'llah have overcome some sort of, or set of, rocks in their path.

. No one can remove your particular rock(s). Baha'is can, at best, mirror a glimmer of His Light in your direction (or anyone's), and He is the primary Mirror of the Sun (the Unknowable God) reflecting that Light to us. In a sense, it is not "His" Light, and certainly is not ours.

. There is not, in my humble opinion, or should not be, a "superimposition" of dogmatic interpretations of religions, or that which is associated with, and attributed, to "authentic" traditions, especially of the more ancient ones.

. Rather, is there not an eventual realization that the water arising from the soil which nurtures the seed from below bubbles up from the same ultimate Source, the backbone of all reality, of which all are cells of the same animal, as it were?

. That the calf of Buddhism matures into the cow of Baha'i is a natural outcome to be understood, during which time the previously intact fetus has cast off the umbilical cord and shed the placenta of its environmental womb in a previous age, as the seed dispenses with its shell; a shell suited to the soil of its ancestors, but now otherwise inhibits further growth of the shoot, which is intended to become a tree in the forest of knowledge.

. All of this metaphorical language exists from a point of relationship. We absorb the physical nutrients and evolve from single-celled, to multi-celled, to ever higher spheres of existence. This parallel extends to human social structures, family, tribe, nation, planetary.

. To "join" the planetary Fold, entails "recognition" of the Shepherd of Oneness, the Buddha of Universal Brotherhood, and "obedience" to the Laws of Oneness which emanate from Him, the Spiritual Sun, without which realization of this Universal Brotherhood cannot exist, as no Dharma is followed, and no cohesion of community possible.

. This eternal Sun was reflected in the previous Mirrors of Krsna, Buddha, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab, and now Baha'u'llah. Until we look past the Mirror with spiritual insight, we are as yet unable to remove the rock which impedes our recognition of the Sun which shines through these sanctified Mirrors Who are "sanctified" from all human learning.

. They appear from Age to Age, but are essentially One in Being. There is no superimposition involved, rather we must clear the dead wood left behind, the rocks which weight us down which are there to give us strength. We must overcome all this to receive "enlightenment", during which process we not only recognize the Sun, but the community of plants who have done so, regardless of where they are in the process of pushing away their own rocks, past the weeds cast upon the path by fruitless interpreters who have modified the fields to their own liking according to their motives over time.

. We, the other plants, humble ourselves as Boddhisatvas whenever we see a seed sprouting, that it may receive all Light, as those who humbled themselves for us, for humility is the essence of the Nine-fold path. ;-)

. "Be thou assured in thyself that verily, he who turneth away from this Beauty hath turned away from the Messengers of the past and showeth pride before God from all eternity to all eternity." Tablet of Ahmad.

.

Last edited by dale ramsdell; 08-20-2015 at 10:03 AM.
 
Old 08-20-2015, 09:35 PM   #84
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Joined: Aug 2015
From: Europe
Posts: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by dale ramsdell View Post
Sophia,
. People do not "become Baha'i" by "joining a (the) religion", i.e. the Baha'i Faith, as a seed does not become a tree by joining the soil.

. "Recognition" of Baha'u'llah as the Manifestation of God for the Age is required, and whatever impedes this, like the seed being in the shadow of a rock, must be overcome. All who recognize Baha'u'llah have overcome some sort of, or set of, rocks in their path.

. No one can remove your particular rock(s). Baha'is can, at best, mirror a glimmer of His Light in your direction (or anyone's), and He is the primary Mirror of the Sun (the Unknowable God) reflecting that Light to us. In a sense, it is not "His" Light, and certainly is not ours.

. There is not, in my humble opinion, or should not be, a "superimposition" of dogmatic interpretations of religions, or that which is associated with, and attributed, to "authentic" traditions, especially of the more ancient ones.

. Rather, is there not an eventual realization that the water arising from the soil which nurtures the seed from below bubbles up from the same ultimate Source, the backbone of all reality, of which all are cells of the same animal, as it were?

. That the calf of Buddhism matures into the cow of Baha'i is a natural outcome to be understood, during which time the previously intact fetus has cast off the umbilical cord and shed the placenta of its environmental womb in a previous age, as the seed dispenses with its shell; a shell suited to the soil of its ancestors, but now otherwise inhibits further growth of the shoot, which is intended to become a tree in the forest of knowledge.

. All of this metaphorical language exists from a point of relationship. We absorb the physical nutrients and evolve from single-celled, to multi-celled, to ever higher spheres of existence. This parallel extends to human social structures, family, tribe, nation, planetary.

. To "join" the planetary Fold, entails "recognition" of the Shepherd of Oneness, the Buddha of Universal Brotherhood, and "obedience" to the Laws of Oneness which emanate from Him, the Spiritual Sun, without which realization of this Universal Brotherhood cannot exist, as no Dharma is followed, and no cohesion of community possible.

. This eternal Sun was reflected in the previous Mirrors of Krsna, Buddha, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, the Bab, and now Baha'u'llah. Until we look past the Mirror with spiritual insight, we are as yet unable to remove the rock which impedes our recognition of the Sun which shines through these sanctified Mirrors Who are "sanctified" from all human learning.

. They appear from Age to Age, but are essentially One in Being. There is no superimposition involved, rather we must clear the dead wood left behind, the rocks which weight us down which are there to give us strength. We must overcome all this to receive "enlightenment", during which process we not only recognize the Sun, but the community of plants who have done so, regardless of where they are in the process of pushing away their own rocks, past the weeds cast upon the path by fruitless interpreters who have modified the fields to their own liking according to their motives over time.

. We, the other plants, humble ourselves as Boddhisatvas whenever we see a seed sprouting, that it may receive all Light, as those who humbled themselves for us, for humility is the essence of the Nine-fold path. ;-)

. "Be thou assured in thyself that verily, he who turneth away from this Beauty hath turned away from the Messengers of the past and showeth pride before God from all eternity to all eternity." Tablet of Ahmad.

.
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.

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