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Old 08-31-2014, 04:56 PM   #1
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Releasing power: the spirit of faith and the love of God

In another thread, Traveler wrote:
Quote:
. . .I feel that the Holy Spirit is going to be poured out into all hearts and that He will manifest Himself some how some way. I don't know how....perhaps through a change in conscience or consciousness...maybe through a few catastrophies...... who knows. I think humanity is on a road to a great paradigm shift but that's only if we accept our Father by loving each other as a Family. . . . Hopefully we open ourselves up to salvation. Love is the only Way.
That's amazingly close to what I've been feeling, and I wanted to discuss it some more, but I wanted to reserve that thread for another purpose. I know I've started a lot of new threads already, but I couldn't find any recent one where I thought this would be on topic.

I've been having a feeling of immense power bottled up, waiting to be released, and I've been feeling impelled, for that purpose, to practice and promote more awareness and better understanding of the gift of faith, and more emphasis on nurturing the spirit of faith and the love of God, in ourselves and in others, everywhere all the time. The relation to salvation is that I see Abdu'l-Baha saying that the spirit of faith is the cause of eternal life, which I equate with salvation.
 
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Old 08-31-2014, 11:19 PM   #2
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhabegger View Post
In another thread, Traveler wrote:


That's amazingly close to what I've been feeling, and I wanted to discuss it some more, but I wanted to reserve that thread for another purpose. I know I've started a lot of new threads already, but I couldn't find any recent one where I thought this would be on topic.

I've been having a feeling of immense power bottled up, waiting to be released, and I've been feeling impelled, for that purpose, to practice and promote more awareness and better understanding of the gift of faith, and more emphasis on nurturing the spirit of faith and the love of God, in ourselves and in others, everywhere all the time. The relation to salvation is that I see Abdu'l-Baha saying that the spirit of faith is the cause of eternal life, which I equate with salvation.
Your not alone dear friend

There is a fresh impulse in the air, what stage of growth in the Faith will it bring?

The evidences of the World Moving Towards the Lesser Peace are more and More, what will happen for this to become Fact?

We Must Love, We must Pray for all.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 09-01-2014, 05:10 AM   #3
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Traveler, please tell me more about your thoughts and feelings, about an outpouring of the Holy Spirit, and about loving each other and opening ourselves up to salvation; and what you've been doing with those feelings.
 
Old 09-01-2014, 07:32 AM   #4
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Dear Jim I just wish to add to your statement re "I've been having a feeling of immense power bottled up, waiting to be released, and I've been feeling impelled, for that purpose, to practice and promote more awareness and better understanding of the gift of faith, and more emphasis on nurturing the spirit of faith and the love of God, in ourselves and in others, everywhere all the time."

I also have very strong feelings of frustration these last months, of the need, no the urgent need to do more.
But sadly my age and illness overwhelm me, but I do try and get out to the younger ones, that need of service.

But I feel confident in God, He knows all, He sifts truth from falsehood, and only by His Grace are any of us saved.
 
Old 09-01-2014, 02:14 PM   #5
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Posted by BlinkeyBill:

But I feel confident in God, He knows all, He sifts truth from falsehood, and only by His Grace are any of us saved.

"From the unreal lead me to the real; from falsehoods lead me to the truth; and from death lead me to immortality."
- Vedic prayer

Bill, I believe you can do so much more than you give yourself credit for. Perhaps not "doing" is the key. And by that I don't mean to not try to reach out, serve, or follow whatever your individual calling or state in life is, but to not "worry" about what's going on in the outside world, whether it's going to end up going to hell in a handbag or not. Again, it doesn't mean you shouldn't be concerned.
For me what I realized is that I don't "have" to do anything. There is no "needs" no "anxiety", and no distress. I know that what I'm saying here might sound like I'd wish for everyone to be in different, and a bit scandalous, but I'm not. But what i mean is that if we have the Love of God within our souls, we also have his Life. If we have is Life, than we have to ask ourselves is God Himself in need of worry, is he "pushing" any agenda with his holy arm, is He in need of anything for that matter? If not, then we must realize neither are we. By saying this it might sound as if I'm portraying a God who's indifferent and that he wants us to not care either way, again not at all. But maybe he wants us to have the Peace of Mind that everything is happening exactly the way it's supposed to, why, because it's happening. Like a beautiful picture or a story being enacted we are all actors playing a part. Its just that at the same time we as individuals can constantly change the coarse of the play, and it's not our beliefs that serves Him but our actions. Our action are self declarations. So when we act we shouldn't act because we believe we "absolutely must or!....." because God doesn't need anything, but rather simply because God gave us the Power of Free will to change the world we don't like. Not out of "absolute" necessity but because He simply says "Be!" And it is. Maybe that's why Bahaullah tells us that the Bounty of God is open for all. Because it's already inside if us. Maybe that's why Christ said to the apostles" peace be with you. My peace I give to you....who's sins you forgive are forgiven them and who's sins you retain are retained". Maybe that's why St. Paul said to "... have the same Mind that was in Chris Jesus". Even after the Lords prayer during a Catholic mass we say "Deliver us Lord from every evil and grant us peace in our days. Keep us free from sin, safe from all anxiety as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our savior Jesus Christ for the Kingdom the power and the glory are yours now and forever." From a human standpoint this sounds impossible and childish like wishful thinking I know that. But He did say that "unless we become like little children, we will not inherit the Kingdom of God". The apostles asked Jesus how anyone could be saved. The "requirements" are just to in practical. But He told them that "With God all things are possible." I for sure said to myself yeah right. Like God's just going to pop out of the sky and change everything, until I realized that God works through us but even that sounded like religious nonsense to me because l said to myself " yeah but lets face it. Human nature is far from holy and loving and life giving. If anything we're mostly inclined to life taking. I'm full of pride, envy, lust, covetousness, ect. I'm more of an evolved ape if anything. Not even that because animals don't even kill their young, rape, pillage, torture or do anything possible to exterminate their own kind like we do." But again I realized God telling me that instead of looking for what's wrong in the world,
Why don't I spend time trying to discover what's right with it. And it finally dawned on me that if God made all of creation in and through and with Love, than Love is all there is. And if as John said "God is Love" than God is all there is and the rest of... this... is just an illusion.

So Bill I believe that the greatest Power you or anyone has is prayer. Beseaching our Father in prayer. "Whatever you ask in my name".. right? Well if we are coheirs in Christ like St. Paul says than his name is our name also. So as consequence of coarse our Father hears us. He created us in His image like Genesis says. He told us that we ourselves are gods through Moses. So I think the power of prayer operating in absolute faith and submission working in love will change the world and hearts around us simply because we are his children. And what father refuses their child?

Plus I can't remember where He said it but didn't Bahaullah write somewhere calling us to be the manifestations of God's Sovereignty and Might?

In fact I believe that if the whole world prayed, with absolute faith, this planet would completely change one day by the time we woke up the next day. And there will be no more wars, violence, hatred, division, perversions, or threat of self destruction and annihilation. " ...God will wipe the tear from every eye....swords will be driven into plow sheers....and the lion will lay down with the lamb". - Isaiah.
 
Old 09-01-2014, 04:52 PM   #6
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Traveler, I was so glad to see your message to Bill, because it responds very well to my request asking you to tell me more about your thoughts and feelings. Even better than what I asked for, because you're showing it to me in action.

To anyone who is having feelings like mine and Traveler's,

I've been feeling an urge to practice and promote more conscious awareness of the spirit of faith in our lives, and more attention to nurturing that, and the love of God, in everyone, everywhere all the time. I want to explain how I'm looking at that, and examples of how I've been trying to practice it; and to invite others to do the same.

Abdu'l-Baha speaks of a spirit in between the human spirit and the Holy Spirit: the spirit of faith.

"The fourth degree of spirit is the heavenly spirit; it is the spirit of faith and the bounty of God; it comes from the breath of the Holy Spirit, and by the divine power it becomes the cause of eternal life. It is the power which makes the earthly man heavenly, and the imperfect man perfect. It makes the impure to be pure, the silent eloquent; it purifies and sanctifies those made captive by carnal desires; it makes the ignorant wise."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 144)

The apostle Paul says:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast."

(King James Bible, Ephesians 2:8-9)

Jesus says:

"Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me."

(King James Bible, Revelation 3:20)

Baha'u'llah says:

"Our mission is to seize and possess the hearts of men."

(Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 211)

I see all of that referring to the same thing, and I'm calling it the spirit of faith.

If you are trying to walk in the path of God, for example by following Baha'u'llah or Jesus or the Bible, and when you try to explain why, and find reasons to give others to do it, and you find that all of the reasons and explanations you can think of, don't suffice to explain it; that might help you to bring that gift, the spirit of faith, into focus. For many months now, I've felt urgently impelled to practice and promote more conscious awareness of that gift, and more conscious attention to nurturing that, and the love of God, in ourselves and in others, everywhere all the time.
 
Old 09-01-2014, 05:22 PM   #7
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Posted by jimhabegger:

If you are trying to walk in the path of God, for example by following Baha'u'llah or Jesus or the Bible, and when you try to explain why, and find reasons to give others to do it, and you find that all of the reasons and explanations you can think of, don't suffice to explain it; that might help you to bring that gift, the spirit of faith, into focus. For many months now, I've felt urgently impelled to practice and promote more conscious awareness of that gift, and more conscious attention to nurturing that, and the love of God, in ourselves and in others, everywhere all the time.

I don't know about you but do you feel sometimes that what was once a hope became faith and that some times faith becomes knowing? At least that's what it feels like me. But then sometimes your caught again in a spiraling motion downwards only to rebuild again and in time once again escape the fear inside and attain that rare peace that brings an even greater understanding than before, then the process happens all over again?
 
Old 09-01-2014, 05:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhabegger View Post
I've been feeling an urge to practice and promote more conscious awareness of the spirit of faith in our lives, and more attention to nurturing that, and the love of God, in everyone, everywhere all the time. I want to explain how I'm looking at that, and examples of how I've been trying to practice it; and to invite others to do the same.
You are not alone in that. Something is up. Events are moving at a rapid pace. We think we 'know', but do we? I mean, really realize the gift we've been given in this unique time?

" The universe is wrapt in an ecstasy of joy and gladness. The Scriptures of past Dispensations celebrate the great jubilee that must needs greet this most great Day of God. Well is it with him that hath lived to see this Day and hath recognized its station.” --Baha'u'llah, World Order of Baha'u'llah, p 106

I believe that the more we bend our wills to that of Baha'u'llah, the more direction and assurance we will be given.

Shoghi Effendi quotes Baha'u'llah:

"Seize your chance, inasmuch as a fleeting moment in this Day excelleth centuries of a bygone age...Neither sun nor moon hath witnessed a day such as this..." --Shoghi Effendi, 'The Dispensation of Bahá'u'lláh', p. 107
 
Old 09-01-2014, 06:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
I don't know about you but do you feel sometimes that what was once a hope became faith and that some times faith becomes knowing? At least that's what it feels like me. But then sometimes your caught again in a spiraling motion downwards only to rebuild again and in time once again escape the fear inside and attain that rare peace that brings an even greater understanding than before, then the process happens all over again?
The only part of that, that I've noticed, is the part about spiraling down. The last time that happened, I went into total free fall, but it only lasted a few minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh View Post
I believe that the more we bend our wills to that of Baha'u'llah, the more direction and assurance we will be given.
To put it another way, the more we practice true islam, the more God will guide us in his ways.

"And whoso maketh efforts for us, in our ways will we guide them"

(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 29 - The Spider)
 
Old 09-01-2014, 09:39 PM   #10
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Changing the Qiblih

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhabegger View Post

To put it another way, the more we practice true islam, the more God will guide us in his ways.

"And whoso maketh efforts for us, in our ways will we guide them"

(The Qur'an (Rodwell tr), Sura 29 - The Spider)

. There is a spiritual principal involved in the changing of the Qiblih.

. "He doeth what He willeth."

. If the Qiblih were stagnant for all time, we would still be facing Jerusalem. And to what end would that serve? To maintain ritual only? Our God would then be ritual itself.

. As Baha'u'llah describes in the Kitab-i-Iqan, the Qiblih was changed to distinguish those who recognized and followed God's Messenger from those who do not, even though they claim to be following God's Message...

. " Yea, such things as throw consternation into the hearts of all men come to pass only that each soul may be tested by the touchstone of God, that the true may be known and distinguished from the false. Thus hath He revealed after the breach amongst the people: “We did not appoint that which Thou wouldst have to be the Qiblih, but that We might know him who followeth the Apostle from him who turneth on his heels.” “Affrighted asses fleeing from a lion.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Kitáb-i-Íqán, Pages 41-80
 
Old 09-02-2014, 07:50 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
Posted by BlinkeyBill:

But I feel confident in God, He knows all, He sifts truth from falsehood, and only by His Grace are any of us saved.

"From the unreal lead me to the real; from falsehoods lead me to the truth; and from death lead me to immortality."
- Vedic prayer

Bill, I believe you can do so much more than you give yourself credit for. Perhaps not "doing" is the key. And by that I don't mean to not try to reach out, serve, or follow whatever your individual calling or state in life is, but to not "worry" about what's going on in the outside world, whether it's going to end up going to hell in a handbag or not. Again, it doesn't mean you shouldn't be concerned.
For me what I realized is that I don't "have" to do anything. There is no "needs" no "anxiety", and no distress. I know that what I'm saying here might sound like I'd wish for everyone to be in different, and a bit scandalous, but I'm not. But what i mean is that if we have the Love of God within our souls, we also have his Life. If we have is Life, than we have to ask ourselves is God Himself in need of worry, is he "pushing" any agenda with his holy arm, is He in need of anything for that matter? If not, then we must realize neither are we. By saying this it might sound as if I'm portraying a God who's indifferent and that he wants us to not care either way, again not at all. But maybe he wants us to have the Peace of Mind that everything is happening exactly the way it's supposed to, why, because it's happening. Like a beautiful picture or a story being enacted we are all actors playing a part. Its just that at the same time we as individuals can constantly change the coarse of the play, and it's not our beliefs that serves Him but our actions. Our action are self declarations. So when we act we shouldn't act because we believe we "absolutely must or!....." because God doesn't need anything, but rather simply because God gave us the Power of Free will to change the world we don't like. Not out of "absolute" necessity but because He simply says "Be!" And it is. Maybe that's why Bahaullah tells us that the Bounty of God is open for all. Because it's already inside if us. Maybe that's why Christ said to the apostles" peace be with you. My peace I give to you....who's sins you forgive are forgiven them and who's sins you retain are retained". Maybe that's why St. Paul said to "... have the same Mind that was in Chris Jesus". Even after the Lords prayer during a Catholic mass we say "Deliver us Lord from every evil and grant us peace in our days. Keep us free from sin, safe from all anxiety as we wait in joyful hope for the coming of our savior Jesus Christ for the Kingdom the power and the glory are yours now and forever." From a human standpoint this sounds impossible and childish like wishful thinking I know that. But He did say that "unless we become like little children, we will not inherit the Kingdom of God". The apostles asked Jesus how anyone could be saved. The "requirements" are just to in practical. But He told them that "With God all things are possible." I for sure said to myself yeah right. Like God's just going to pop out of the sky and change everything, until I realized that God works through us but even that sounded like religious nonsense to me because l said to myself " yeah but lets face it. Human nature is far from holy and loving and life giving. If anything we're mostly inclined to life taking. I'm full of pride, envy, lust, covetousness, ect. I'm more of an evolved ape if anything. Not even that because animals don't even kill their young, rape, pillage, torture or do anything possible to exterminate their own kind like we do." But again I realized God telling me that instead of looking for what's wrong in the world,
Why don't I spend time trying to discover what's right with it. And it finally dawned on me that if God made all of creation in and through and with Love, than Love is all there is. And if as John said "God is Love" than God is all there is and the rest of... this... is just an illusion.

So Bill I believe that the greatest Power you or anyone has is prayer. Beseaching our Father in prayer. "Whatever you ask in my name".. right? Well if we are coheirs in Christ like St. Paul says than his name is our name also. So as consequence of coarse our Father hears us. He created us in His image like Genesis says. He told us that we ourselves are gods through Moses. So I think the power of prayer operating in absolute faith and submission working in love will change the world and hearts around us simply because we are his children. And what father refuses their child?

Plus I can't remember where He said it but didn't Bahaullah write somewhere calling us to be the manifestations of God's Sovereignty and Might?

In fact I believe that if the whole world prayed, with absolute faith, this planet would completely change one day by the time we woke up the next day. And there will be no more wars, violence, hatred, division, perversions, or threat of self destruction and annihilation. " ...God will wipe the tear from every eye....swords will be driven into plow sheers....and the lion will lay down with the lamb". - Isaiah.
Dear friend, my so much to read. big loving smile

Have you not read where Baha'u'llah said that if the followers in His day had done more (followed His teachings) the world today would be a better place?

Have you also not read, not to miss our chance in promoting the faith, that if we do not arise and serve, then Baha'u'llah can create others to do it for us?

So sorry within my heart I see the need in the world today for fit strong young Baha'is to arise and serve, My day is near its close, but yes I still strive, I do not sit still. But I lament that I could have done more, or feel I should have, I feel that I long to do more right now, this is my own personal feeling, but of course God may see different, I will know one day, but for me I must strive and strive. After all what does one do for their beloved?

All of the things you spoke about dear friend I know, and yes I pray. smile

“Everyone sleeps, except lovers, who stay awake, telling stories to God”

—Rumi, Ghazal #258

Do you also not feel at times the urge to do more? Do you not feel at times that what you have done is less than that of an ant?

But yes I do not overly worry about such, for God is my judge, and we can only do so much, I am content with what I have done, but the need within to do more, this is what I feel spurred the early believers on in their efforts for Baha'u'llah and the Master. And what heights they achieved so to be complacent is death for me, there has to be a goal ahead always.

Not sure dear friend if I am getting my thoughts across or not. But we are all individuals and different, this is me. big loving smile.

Loving regards to you.
 
Old 09-02-2014, 09:05 AM   #12
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Dear Bill,

Yes you are so right and couldn't be more so.

As soon as I read your response I realized that I failed to remember that even Jesus gave the parable of the profitless laborers, calling for his disciples to not simply believe but that their discipleship depended on their action.

So yes like you said we have to Strive though it might never seem enough. This world is not going to practically change in one day. Some times when I'm challenged at times with the need to act and find moral direction in doing so I think of the Prophet Muhammad and what He went through.

As always thank you for your wisdom.
With Love and Peace.
 
Old 09-02-2014, 09:13 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
Dear Bill,

Yes you are so right and couldn't be more so.

As soon as I read your response I realized that I failed to remember that even Jesus gave the parable of the profitless laborers, calling for his disciples to not simply believe but that their discipleship depended on their action.

So yes like you said we have to Strive though it might never seem enough. This world is not going to practically change in one day. Some times when I'm challenged at times with the need to act and find moral direction in doing so I think of the Prophet Muhammad and what He went through.

As always thank you for your wisdom.
With Love and Peace.
Dear friend yes the suffering of all the Messengers of God should be sufficient to understand.

As for wisdom dear friend what little I have comes only from one source, Baha'u'llah, and of course through him God, all praise is His.

Something that many who come to the forum and argue about Baha'is beliefs, what ever we say only comes from what we have learn't through the Messenger of God, so they in fact argue with God, we are only His weak servants, and none of us has any power, only the living Word of God has power, to change anyone's lives.

Loving regards
Bill
 
Old 09-03-2014, 07:02 AM   #14
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I'd like to exchange ideas and experiences, with anyone who's interested, in our efforts to help nurture the spirit of faith in ourselves and others.

After this feeling came over me, I sent emails about it to everyone on my contact list that I thought could possibly be interested in it. I got a few favorable responses, but it didn't lead to any of the exchange of ideas and experiences I was hoping for.

Since then I've just been trying to practice some ideas myself. Then I saw some posts that game me hope of finding some interest in that here.

Some of the ideas I've been practicing:
- Reading Bret Breneman's "Heroes of the Dawn."
- Looking for the beauty in people's faces.
- Stopping whatever I'm doing, at random moments, and opening myself to everything around me, trying to open myself up to God.
- Trying to see where each person around me might be in her own path of progress, and what kind of encouragement and support I can offer that might actually help.
- Trying to learn to be a better friend to everyone in my life.
- Trying to share these thoughts and feelings about the spirit of faith and the love of God with some people sometimes, especially if I see in them some signs of the same feelings.
- Thinking about what kinds of behavior in other people help lift me up, and trying to learn to be that way myself.
- Singing uplifting songs to myself when I'm out walking.
- Practicing better posture.
- When I'm out walking, imagining that I'm putting buffs on people, enabling them to be their best and do their best.

Those were a few that came to mind. I might think of more later.

One of my thoughts is that if people are saved by God's grace, then I want to learn to be a better channel for God's grace, everywhere all the time.
 
Old 09-03-2014, 08:38 AM   #15
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Dear Josh thank you for this Quote, it is running through my mind of late.

Quote:
"Seize your chance, inasmuch as a fleeting moment in this Day excelleth centuries of a bygone age...Neither sun nor moon hath witnessed a day such as this..." --Shoghi Effendi, 'The Dispensation of Bahá'u'lláh', p. 107
 
Old 09-03-2014, 08:42 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhabegger View Post
I'd like to exchange ideas and experiences, with anyone who's interested, in our efforts to help nurture the spirit of faith in ourselves and others.

After this feeling came over me, I sent emails about it to everyone on my contact list that I thought could possibly be interested in it. I got a few favorable responses, but it didn't lead to any of the exchange of ideas and experiences I was hoping for.

Since then I've just been trying to practice some ideas myself. Then I saw some posts that game me hope of finding some interest in that here.

Some of the ideas I've been practicing:
- Reading Bret Breneman's "Heroes of the Dawn."
- Looking for the beauty in people's faces.
- Stopping whatever I'm doing, at random moments, and opening myself to everything around me, trying to open myself up to God.
- Trying to see where each person around me might be in her own path of progress, and what kind of encouragement and support I can offer that might actually help.
- Trying to learn to be a better friend to everyone in my life.
- Trying to share these thoughts and feelings about the spirit of faith and the love of God with some people sometimes, especially if I see in them some signs of the same feelings.
- Thinking about what kinds of behavior in other people help lift me up, and trying to learn to be that way myself.
- Singing uplifting songs to myself when I'm out walking.
- Practicing better posture.
- When I'm out walking, imagining that I'm putting buffs on people, enabling them to be their best and do their best.

Those were a few that came to mind. I might think of more later.

One of my thoughts is that if people are saved by God's grace, then I want to learn to be a better channel for God's grace, everywhere all the time.
Dear Jim, yes all wonderful ideas.

And all part of the teachings, we just need to live them more in our Baha'i lives, it starts with now, this moment, striving harder to help nurture the spirit of faith in ourselves and others.

I wish all in this path success in striving for without effort what will we achieve?
 
Old 09-05-2014, 01:39 PM   #17
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Quote:

"Seize your chance, inasmuch as a fleeting moment in this Day excelleth centuries of a bygone age...Neither sun nor moon hath witnessed a day such as this..." --Shoghi Effendi, 'The Dispensation of Bahá'u'lláh', p. 107

How true this is. Did you know that some historians say that between this century and the last they contained about 1000 years worth of history unlike in previous centuries because of all of the historically momentous things that happened so fast in so short amount of time?
 
Old 09-05-2014, 03:48 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
Quote:

"Seize your chance, inasmuch as a fleeting moment in this Day excelleth centuries of a bygone age...Neither sun nor moon hath witnessed a day such as this..." --Shoghi Effendi, 'The Dispensation of Bahá'u'lláh', p. 107

How true this is. Did you know that some historians say that between this century and the last they contained about 1000 years worth of history unlike in previous centuries because of all of the historically momentous things that happened so fast in so short amount of time?
Yes correct dear Traveler, and why?

Of course I dare not say, as it would bring the ire of all the disbelievers down upon my head, and only cause them more opportunity to say things they should not.

Love to all
 
Old 09-05-2014, 04:14 PM   #19
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Yes correct dear Traveler, and why?

Of course I dare not say, as it would bring the ire of all the disbelievers down upon my head, and only cause them more opportunity to say things they should not.

Love to all
I'm actually interested to hear what Traveler has to say. I mean, it certainly makes sense from a historical viewpoint that one could say that there's more things happening in the last 100 years than any other 100 year time period, and I'd like for him to elaborate.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 04:27 PM   #20
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I'm actually interested to hear what Traveler has to say. I mean, it certainly makes sense from a historical viewpoint that one could say that there's more things happening in the last 100 years than any other 100 year time period, and I'd like for him to elaborate.
Our friend traveler is free to say, I just said I would not, in a tongue in cheek manner.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 04:38 PM   #21
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Our friend traveler is free to say, I just said I would not, in a tongue in cheek manner.
Well, that's particularly difficult to convey online, unfortunately. But I wanted to make it clear that I wasn't going to be aggressive in my response.

Last edited by SmilingSkeptic; 09-05-2014 at 04:41 PM.
 
Old 09-05-2014, 04:41 PM   #22
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Boys, what's the point in this train of thought? Semantics?
 
Old 09-05-2014, 07:12 PM   #23
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Quote:

"Seize your chance, inasmuch as a fleeting moment in this Day excelleth centuries of a bygone age...Neither sun nor moon hath witnessed a day such as this..." --Shoghi Effendi, 'The Dispensation of Bahá'u'lláh', p. 107

How true this is. Did you know that some historians say that between this century and the last they contained about 1000 years worth of history unlike in previous centuries because of all of the historically momentous things that happened so fast in so short amount of time?
Very True Traveler This may be why;

"Verily I say! No one hath apprehended the root of this Cause. It is incumbent upon everyone, in this day, to perceive with the eye of God, and to hearken with His ear. Whoso beholdeth Me with an eye besides Mine own will never be able to know Me. None among the Manifestations of old, except to a prescribed degree, hath ever completely apprehended the nature of this Revelation." "I testify before God to the greatness, the inconceivable greatness of this Revelation. Again and again have We, in most of Our Tablets, borne witness to this truth, that mankind may be roused from its heedlessness." "How great is the Cause, how staggering the weight of its Message!" "In this most mighty Revelation all the Dispensations of the past have attained their highest, their final consummation." "That which hath been made manifest in this preeminent, this most exalted Revelation, stands unparalleled in the annals of the past, nor will future ages witness its like." "The purpose underlying all creation is the revelation of this most sublime, this most holy Day, the Day known as the Day of God, in His Books and Scriptures -- the Day which all the Prophets, and the Chosen Ones, and the holy ones, have wished to witness." "The highest essence and most perfect expression of whatsoever the peoples of old have either said or written hath, through this most potent Revelation, been sent down from the heaven of the Will of the All-Possessing, the Ever-Abiding God."

(Shoghi Effendi, The Advent of Divine Justice, p. 76)

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 09-06-2014, 07:21 AM   #24
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Well, that's particularly difficult to convey online, unfortunately. But I wanted to make it clear that I wasn't going to be aggressive in my response.
Dear friend, I hear your words, but believe only your actions. big loving smile

If you do not understand the above, for you not to be aggressive to a response, I feel would be a first. big smile And I feel a need to explain because of others constant criticisms by aggressive I mean in denying everything from a spiritual side of view.

And as for dear Traveler making the comment he did, and I know I said I would not comment on it, but I now will.
Look to the Quote dear Tony has given, and try to look deeply within it and understand, this Day of God, is a most special day. It is the coming of two or twin Manifestations, when a Manifestation comes into the world, a fresh release of spiritual energy is released, and as this is a most special time, spoken about in all the books of old concerning this coming. This huge release of energy manifests itself into the material and scientific advance of the time.

For Baha'is this is another proof of the station of the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

Best wishes dear friend
 
Old 09-06-2014, 10:29 AM   #25
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... didn't Bahaullah write somewhere calling us to be the manifestations of God's Sovereignty and Might?
He lays that one on the kings and rulers:
We pray God ... that He may graciously assist the manifestations of affluence and power and the daysprings of sovereignty and glory, the kings of the earth ... to establish the Lesser Peace.
(Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 30)
But you might have been thinking of this, which promises assistance
I implore Thee by the glory of Thy Manifestation and by the power of Thy might, Thy sovereignty and Thine exaltation to render victorious those who have arisen to serve Thee, who have aided Thy Cause and humbled themselves before the splendour of the light of Thy face. Make them then, O my God, triumphant over Thine enemies and cause them to be steadfast in Thy service, that through them the evidences of Thy dominion may be established throughout Thy realms and the tokens of Thine indomitable power be manifested in Thy lands.
(Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 232)
That is (imv), the governments are manifestations of God's sovereignty and power, but God's sovereignty and and power are there to assist us all to make them evident in the world.
 
Old 09-06-2014, 12:05 PM   #26
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Quote:

"Seize your chance, inasmuch as a fleeting moment in this Day excelleth centuries of a bygone age...Neither sun nor moon hath witnessed a day such as this..." --Shoghi Effendi, 'The Dispensation of Bahá'u'lláh', p. 107

How true this is. Did you know that some historians say that between this century and the last they contained about 1000 years worth of history unlike in previous centuries because of all of the historically momentous things that happened so fast in so short amount of time?

I think the true import of Baha'u'llah's quote is about the vast outpouring of spiritual energy that both He and the Bab released into the world, and how valuable is our opportunity to 'make hay' in these (our) days on earth. Baha'is believe that the corresponding advancement in material civilization is also due to that spiritual release.

How many billions of people have lived and died while living pretty much the same way as their parents and grandparents, and back multiple generations, did? You could move a person many hundreds of years in either direction, and they would fit in quite nicely, they would not be amazed by anything they saw... for centuries, nothing much changed; till the soil and milk the cows.

Look at all the differences between 1844 and 2014, and imagine a person transported from then to now....they'd be unable to cope and would have their mind blown.

Why did all this change happen 'now' and not 'then'? Baha'is believe we have recognized the reason.
 
Old 09-06-2014, 07:32 PM   #27
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Smoking gun

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Originally Posted by Josh View Post
I think the true import of Baha'u'llah's quote is about the vast outpouring of spiritual energy that both He and the Bab released ...

Look at all the differences between 1844 and 2014, and imagine a person transported from then to now....they'd be unable to cope and would have their mind blown.

Why did all this change happen 'now' and not 'then'? Baha'is believe we have recognized the reason.

Yes! Either it is another one of them thar mighty starange coincidences ... or there's a smokin' gun from which all those bullitts of change are bein' fired.

Turn the key in the little lock over there, kid, and see what all 's behind door number 9... ;-)

.
 
Old 09-07-2014, 06:09 AM   #28
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Posted by SmilingSkeptic:

I'm actually interested to hear what Traveler has to say. I mean, it certainly makes sense from a historical viewpoint that one could say that there's more things happening in the last 100 years than any other 100 year time period, and I'd like for him to elaborate.

Dear Smiling Skeptic, I'll be more than happy to tell you how I see this. Everybody else here pretty much gave a better and more articulate explanation than I am about to here as to why history is moving like this. I agree with them saying that all of this explosion in knowledge and ideas in politics, economics, technology, biology, science, etc. I mean the list is truly endless, that it is tied to something spiritual. There is an underlining hidden cause. No matter who you are or what you believe, I think anyone can see the obvious that humanity is moving really rapid in it's progress. Now the reason why I believe this is tied to something spiritual or to something latent within each persons ability to aid in this progress individually and collectively is because of a greater sense of awareness that we have today of things unmatched by centuries bygone. Just look at the geniuses and movers that we were given within only two centuries. Albert Einstein, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Mother Theresa, pope John Paul II, Nelson Mendala, Steve Jobs, The list goes on. Though we had our geniuses in the past, but not in such a short amount of time. Not to mention the thousands of momentous events that happened. When I sit back and marvel at our current situation and the events and seasons that lead up to this point, some Bible verses come to my mind. "All of creation is in labor pains", the prophecy of an "explosion of knowledge" given to Ezekiel, the gathering of the children of Israel, as seen in the State of Israel today, Moses saying "the Lord wishes to pour His spirit out on all of His people", and "Behold I am coming soon".

Now without getting into a "theistic" discourse into the matter, these things are just a testament to what might be a monumental event of global proportions about to happen in which mankind is in full control of it's destiny to choose. The tools are there. We know more now than ever. We are capable of a lot more than ever. Therefore great is the responsibility. With all this We, Humanity has a duty to change and bring the Kingdom of God here on Earth. Aka. The betterment, advancement, and the reconciling of the the Human species to survive and reach the heights we always wanted to go but couldn't before. Now is our time. Now is the chance to decide between changing our hearts for Love. The Love of each other and the Love of our selves by recognizing who we really are and where do we want to go. There is no greater opportunity to Awaken than now. Or will we continue with our obsolete ways where "iniquity will abound because mans love for each will grow cold". Will we continue to stay in our slumber? We watch the news and see everyday the atrocities getting worse but also the opportunities presenting themselves more clearly. Like a voice yelling us off the cliff. We have a choice as Moses said in the desert to the people "Between life and death". Between Annihilation or Realization.

But before WE can change the world I must first become the change I wish to see as Gandhi said and so must you and everyone else if that's what we want. Because lets face it the "Kingdom of God" isn't just going to fall out of the sky, we have to build it. It's our City is it not? And everybody is welcome at the Table. Rich, poor, Jew, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, satanists, black, white, theist and atheists. Bottom line it's our world. And I think that with everything happening so fast it seems like it's all going to culminate into something big. We all can feel it.

The "spiritual" language that I used above is the best way I can express what we all can see happening right now before us. You can translate it into whatever it means for you. : )

Take care my friend. : )
 
Old 09-07-2014, 08:06 AM   #29
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Dear traveler, wow, so very well said.
 
Old 09-07-2014, 10:57 PM   #30
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Dear traveler, wow, so very well said.
And a 2nd on that for me - And Carried

God Bless all with that Love and Regards Tony
 
Old 09-08-2014, 09:26 AM   #31
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Know thou the value of these days; let not this chance escape thee. Beg thou God to make thee a lighted candle, so thou mayest guide a great multitude through this darksome world.

Selected Writings of Abdu'l-Baha' pg 100
 
Old 09-08-2014, 09:57 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Traveler View Post
Posted by SmilingSkeptic:

I'm actually interested to hear what Traveler has to say. I mean, it certainly makes sense from a historical viewpoint that one could say that there's more things happening in the last 100 years than any other 100 year time period, and I'd like for him to elaborate.

Dear Smiling Skeptic, I'll be more than happy to tell you how I see this. Everybody else here pretty much gave a better and more articulate explanation than I am about to here as to why history is moving like this. I agree with them saying that all of this explosion in knowledge and ideas in politics, economics, technology, biology, science, etc. I mean the list is truly endless, that it is tied to something spiritual. There is an underlining hidden cause. No matter who you are or what you believe, I think anyone can see the obvious that humanity is moving really rapid in it's progress. Now the reason why I believe this is tied to something spiritual or to something latent within each persons ability to aid in this progress individually and collectively is because of a greater sense of awareness that we have today of things unmatched by centuries bygone. Just look at the geniuses and movers that we were given within only two centuries. Albert Einstein, Martin Luther King, Gandhi, Mother Theresa, pope John Paul II, Nelson Mendala, Steve Jobs, The list goes on. Though we had our geniuses in the past, but not in such a short amount of time. Not to mention the thousands of momentous events that happened. When I sit back and marvel at our current situation and the events and seasons that lead up to this point, some Bible verses come to my mind. "All of creation is in labor pains", the prophecy of an "explosion of knowledge" given to Ezekiel, the gathering of the children of Israel, as seen in the State of Israel today, Moses saying "the Lord wishes to pour His spirit out on all of His people", and "Behold I am coming soon".

Now without getting into a "theistic" discourse into the matter, these things are just a testament to what might be a monumental event of global proportions about to happen in which mankind is in full control of it's destiny to choose. The tools are there. We know more now than ever. We are capable of a lot more than ever. Therefore great is the responsibility. With all this We, Humanity has a duty to change and bring the Kingdom of God here on Earth. Aka. The betterment, advancement, and the reconciling of the the Human species to survive and reach the heights we always wanted to go but couldn't before. Now is our time. Now is the chance to decide between changing our hearts for Love. The Love of each other and the Love of our selves by recognizing who we really are and where do we want to go. There is no greater opportunity to Awaken than now. Or will we continue with our obsolete ways where "iniquity will abound because mans love for each will grow cold". Will we continue to stay in our slumber? We watch the news and see everyday the atrocities getting worse but also the opportunities presenting themselves more clearly. Like a voice yelling us off the cliff. We have a choice as Moses said in the desert to the people "Between life and death". Between Annihilation or Realization.

But before WE can change the world I must first become the change I wish to see as Gandhi said and so must you and everyone else if that's what we want. Because lets face it the "Kingdom of God" isn't just going to fall out of the sky, we have to build it. It's our City is it not? And everybody is welcome at the Table. Rich, poor, Jew, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, satanists, black, white, theist and atheists. Bottom line it's our world. And I think that with everything happening so fast it seems like it's all going to culminate into something big. We all can feel it.

The "spiritual" language that I used above is the best way I can express what we all can see happening right now before us. You can translate it into whatever it means for you. : )

Take care my friend. : )
Dear Traveler,

I think that for centuries, atheists haven't really felt welcome in the human family, because of persecution and petty superstition. It unfortunately even continues today, where every once in a while I'll be physically blocked by a street preacher shouting hellfire invective at me, or get hateful messages (up to and including death threats) online, but more importantly in several countries you can be executed for being an atheist, and a Bangladeshi blogger was killed for being an atheist. So, because of all this, I have developed this sense of self-preservation that led me to react negatively to quotes that seemed to mock atheists, which my friend Jimhabegger has gotten me past. And I have to thank you for your reply as well Traveler. If all theists were like you (and my Baha'i girlfriend, who despite any mistakes we've made and despite the fact I'm an atheist has shown nothing but kindness and love), us atheists would not feel threatened any more, and we would have peace on Earth already.

Last edited by SmilingSkeptic; 09-08-2014 at 09:59 AM.
 
Old 09-08-2014, 11:36 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by SmilingSkeptic View Post
Dear Traveler,

I think that for centuries, atheists haven't really felt welcome in the human family, because of persecution and petty superstition. It unfortunately even continues today, where every once in a while I'll be physically blocked by a street preacher shouting hellfire invective at me, or get hateful messages (up to and including death threats) online, but more importantly in several countries you can be executed for being an atheist, and a Bangladeshi blogger was killed for being an atheist. So, because of all this, I have developed this sense of self-preservation that led me to react negatively to quotes that seemed to mock atheists, which my friend Jimhabegger has gotten me past. And I have to thank you for your reply as well Traveler. If all theists were like you (and my Baha'i girlfriend, who despite any mistakes we've made and despite the fact I'm an atheist has shown nothing but kindness and love), us atheists would not feel threatened any more, and we would have peace on Earth already.
Trust me in this, Skeptic. You don't have to be an athiest to be assaulted by a street preacher. You just have to be the least bit different in your beliefs. Don't take that personally!
 
Old 09-08-2014, 11:49 AM   #34
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Trust me in this, Skeptic. You don't have to be an athiest to be assaulted by a street preacher. You just have to be the least bit different in your beliefs. Don't take that personally!
Don't worry, I and my Jewish friends both know that all too well.
 
Old 09-08-2014, 11:56 AM   #35
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Mugged by a street preacher

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Originally Posted by becky View Post
Trust me in this, Skeptic. You don't have to be an athiest to be assaulted by a street preacher. You just have to be the least bit different in your beliefs. Don't take that personally!
Ha Ha... ;-)

Just got mugged last Friday at the Farmer's Market. One of them invited me as I was walking down the street, then began the Inquisition. At some point I attemted to explain how El, Elah, and Elohim, and Allah are all referencing the One God, but this got up the ire of another of them. He began the whole Satanic bit against anyone who worships Allah.

I replied that at least ten million Arabic speaking Christians pray to Allah.

Again he couldn't handle this, and another of the crew walked up and asked me "Why are you here?" I said because this fellow asked me as I walked by. She said, "We are here to pray for people." I said, Please do, and bowed my head. She seemed perplexed now.

Yet another fellow, a kind Hispanic man, came and we walked up the street, relating very well about the extreme suffering we've both seen, much of it at the hands of "religious" people.

So we parted ways, and a half an hour later, my friend Jon was back at the Baha'i booth, looking dejected. He said he was tossed out of the "Need Prayer" booth. Then I gave him a big grin and said Yay!! ;-) We both got shot at that night, and it felt good, although it seemed to hurt a little at the time.

There seems to be a lot of territorialism going on, spiritual territorialism, where the reality of the whole thing circles round someone's ego, and the lash out at anyone who doesn't recognize their infallibility and cow tow along like good little sheep. It is a service to them to stand in the face of their assualts, but it is also a delicate balance, as we do not want to contribute to any contention or harsh feelings.

Thus we walk a fine line in our encounters with "preacher" types.
.
 
Old 09-08-2014, 12:08 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by dale ramsdell View Post
Ha Ha... ;-)

Just got mugged last Friday at the Farmer's Market. One of them invited me as I was walking down the street, then began the Inquisition. At some point I attemted to explain how El, Elah, and Elohim, and Allah are all referencing the One God, but this got up the ire of another of them. He began the whole Satanic bit against anyone who worships Allah.

I replied that at least ten million Arabic speaking Christians pray to Allah.

Again he couldn't handle this, and another of the crew walked up and asked me "Why are you here?" I said because this fellow asked me as I walked by. She said, "We are here to pray for people." I said, Please do, and bowed my head. She seemed perplexed now.

Yet another fellow, a kind Hispanic man, came and we walked up the street, relating very well about the extreme suffering we've both seen, much of it at the hands of "religious" people.

So we parted ways, and a half an hour later, my friend Jon was back at the Baha'i booth, looking dejected. He said he was tossed out of the "Need Prayer" booth. Then I gave him a big grin and said Yay!! ;-) We both got shot at that night, and it felt good, although it seemed to hurt a little at the time.

There seems to be a lot of territorialism going on, spiritual territorialism, where the reality of the whole thing circles round someone's ego, and the lash out at anyone who doesn't recognize their infallibility and cow tow along like good little sheep. It is a service to them to stand in the face of their assualts, but it is also a delicate balance, as we do not want to contribute to any contention or harsh feelings.

Thus we walk a fine line in our encounters with "preacher" types.
.
So glad you're okay and can see a bit of humor in the situation, altho at the time, I'm sure it was no laughing matter. With guns everywhere, it can be scary to not be mainstream....makes me pray harder, love more, find more ways to serve. A blessing to our faith that you continue the teaching booth....warmest regards!
 
Old 09-08-2014, 12:36 PM   #37
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Bill has spoken of infirmity preventing him from being active. I empathise. But we douch more than we realise. Saint Terese of Lisieux is the patroness of Catholic foreign missions. One wonders why a cloistered nun? This was explained by the idea that prayer offered in monasteries is the powerhouse of the church. Our prayer therefore empowers others to do great things and is the rock bed of the Faith
 
Old 09-08-2014, 01:59 PM   #38
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Matthew 23English Standard Version (ESV)Seven Woes to the Scribes and Pharisees

23Then Jesussaid to the crowds and to his disciples,2“The scribes and the Phariseessit on Moses' seat,3so do and observe whatever they tell you,but not the works they do.For they preach, but do not practice.4They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear,[a]and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger.5They do all their deedsto be seen by others. For they maketheir phylacteries broad andtheir fringes long,6and theylove the place of honor at feasts andthe best seats in the synagogues7andgreetings inthe marketplaces and being calledrabbi[b]by others.8But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you areall brothers.[c]9And call no man your father on earth, foryou have one Father, who is in heaven.10Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor,the Christ.11The greatest among you shall be your servant.12Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

13“But woeto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For youshut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For youneither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.[d]15Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a singleproselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much achild ofhell[e]as yourselves.

16“Woe toyou,blind guides, who say,‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing, but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’17You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold orthe temple that has made the gold sacred?18And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing, but if anyone swears bythe gift that is on the altar, he is bound by his oath.’19You blind men! For which is greater, the gift orthe altar that makes the gift sacred?20So whoever swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.21And whoever swears by the temple swears by it and byhim who dwells in it.22And whoever swears byheaven swears bythe throne of God and byhim who sits upon it.

23“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Foryou tithe mint and dill andcumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law:justice and mercy and faithfulness.These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others.24You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowinga camel!

25“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Foryou clean the outside ofthe cup and the plate, but inside they are full ofgreed and self-indulgence.26You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside ofthe cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean.

27“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are likewhitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones andall uncleanness.28So you alsooutwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full ofhypocrisy and lawlessness.

29“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you build the tombs of the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous,30saying, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’31Thus you witness against yourselves that you aresons of those who murdered the prophets.32Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers.33You serpents,you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced tohell?34ThereforeI send youprophets and wise men andscribes,some of whom you will kill and crucify, andsome you willflog in your synagogues andpersecute from town to town,35so that on you may come allthe righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteousAbel to the blood ofZechariah the son of Barachiah,[f]whom you murdered betweenthe sanctuary andthe altar.36Truly, I say to you,all these things will come upon this generation.

Posted by SmilingSkeptic:

Dear Traveler,

I think that for centuries, atheists haven't really felt welcome in the human family, because of persecution and petty superstition. It unfortunately even continues today, where every once in a while I'll be physically blocked by a street preacher shouting hellfire invective at me, or get hateful messages (up to and including death threats) online, but more importantly in several countries you can be executed for being an atheist, and a Bangladeshi blogger was killed for being an atheist. So, because of all this, I have developed this sense of self-preservation that led me to react negatively to quotes that seemed to mock atheists, which my friend Jimhabegger has gotten me past. And I have to thank you for your reply as well Traveler. If all theists were like you (and my Baha'i girlfriend, who despite any mistakes we've made and despite the fact I'm an atheist has shown nothing but kindness and love), us atheists would not feel threatened any more, and we would have peace on Earth already.09-08-2014 12:26 PM

Dear Smiling Skeptic, I'll be straight up, it makes me angry at the fact that some who profess to call themselves CHRISTIANS, a follower of Christ Jesus, refuse to even follow the greatest commandment, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your strength and with all your mind. AND YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." I don't know what part of that some "believers" don't understand.
Did they forget that he also said that on The Last Day, the Lord will repay EVERYONE according to their CONDUCT? If it was base in what one believes He would have said so no? Also "If you love me you will keep my commandments" If Jesus wanted to convert people through uncharitableness He would have started a war of bloodshed right?

And

Posted by Dale Ramsdell:

Just got mugged last Friday at the Farmer's Market. One of them invited me as I was walking down the street, then began the Inquisition. At some point I attemted to explain how El, Elah, and Elohim, and Allah are all referencing the One God, but this got up the ire of another of them. He began the whole Satanic bit against anyone who worships Allah.

I replied that at least ten million Arabic speaking Christians pray to Allah.

Again he couldn't handle this, and another of the crew walked up and asked me "Why are you here?" I said because this fellow asked me as I walked by. She said, "We are here to pray for people." I said, Please do, and bowed my head. She seemed perplexed now.

Some so called Christians like this obviously don't have the common sense to know that in Arabic the word for God is Allah which is a combination of the two words "Al = the" and "lah = god, deity". Allah = The God.
As spoken by Jesus himself in His sister tongue Aramaic. Not to mention I've heard there type before bring up false accusations about Muhammad that I don't want to get into. I don't have a problem with these false acts because reading some of the Hadiths out of context would seemingly say some pretty disgusting things. But these people fail to do the objective research into the the facts that clearly refute their argument. On top of that I've heard the kind of fallacies and prejudices they have against Catholics such as myself, but they don't want to hear our side because God forbid they would be proven wrong with the facts.

I'll be clear though. I don't have anything against Fundamentalists or any other Bible orientated Christians. Most that I know are loving, charitable, and respectful. One thing that always helped me to ignore folks that were prejudiced is to remember the dark past of my particular Church. But we have moved past that and have repented. And those who did such things will have to answer for what they did. But Hatred and persecution is found in the history of every faith and movement, including atheists. Just look into the atrocities of every Communist revolution. But it's unfair to paint a broad brush because it's not a religious or idealogical problem, it's a human problem. Human beings have hated each other since we were swingin from vines.

The key word is RESPECT, and I personally tolerate everyone accept the intolerant. That's me.

All I can say is keep your head up and don't let anyone intimadate you. An Atheist who does more good out of love than the Christian or Muslim will have a better reward in the hereafter. Same goes for a Bahai. Lol though you probably don't believe in a hereafter SmilingSkeptic I'm not sure, but you know what I mean. : D

We have to forgive though and not generalize. It's spiritually and psycholigicaly healthy for us. It's the only way to continue living in peace. That's why Christ knew what He was doing. But I know I don't have to tell you guys this. : )

: D I know it would be hard for me if someone in the street screamed and put their finger in my face. I can't guarantee what my Irish temper would've done at that moment. : D

Take care guys.
With Love and Peace.
 
Old 09-08-2014, 02:38 PM   #39
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2013
From: forest falls california
Posts: 1,773
loving, etc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler View Post

I don't have anything against Fundamentalists or any other Bible orientated Christians. Most that I know are loving, charitable, and respectful..

.
. Yeah, this is what I most enjoy, the very loving spirit, but it seems to be mixed in with a self-certainty that only they are loved by God. Not being open to people of other systems of belief confuses me, and how superior and judgemental some of the more zealous types can be.

. Then I have to examine my own self to see if my approach or attitude is tainted by self in some way, and it leaves me a little unsure. "Did I just make that happen?" referring to the sense of a kind of clash felt.

. There are some sort of dynamics that are set in motion when religion is brought up. It awakens something within us which is asleep. Then, as this part of us is awakened, whatever is inside us unfolds in the outer world. This applies to everyone, I think.

. So whether there is love or defensive, or even aggressive feelings and emotions, whatever it is, becomes visible and apparent in our interaction with others. Whether it is coming from "them", or "us". If there is division, that becomes apparent. If it is unity, then that becomes apparent.

. People divide so easily. Especially over religion. Knowing when to back off is important. Don't cast lit matches near the fireworks. Some folks have alot of fireworks they're hiding.
 
Old 09-08-2014, 02:51 PM   #40
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2014
From: Pennsylvania, USA
Posts: 158
Posted by Dale:

Yeah, this is what I most enjoy, the very loving spirit, but it seems to be mixed in with a self-certainty that only they are loved by God. Not being open to people of other systems of belief confuses me, and how superior and judgemental some of the more zealous types can be.

. Then I have to examine my own self to see if my approach or attitude is tainted by self in some way, and it leaves me a little unsure. "Did I just make that happen?" referring to the sense of a kind of clash felt.

Yeah you are right. Myself included. I think I still have some traces of that superiority ego that I'm trying to get rid of. It's not easy though because who wants to be wring when they're trying to be right?

The other day I read this section from Bahaullahs Seven Valleys:
Bahá'í Reference Library - The Seven Valleys And the Four Valleys, Pages 1-8

I can't even get passed this first valley.
 
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