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Old 12-02-2014, 12:16 PM   #41
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Originally Posted by dale ramsdell View Post
Now, if thou wishest to know the true remedy which will heal man from all sickness and will give him the health of the divine kingdom, know that it is the precepts and teachings of God. Focus thine attention upon them."

("Selections from the Writings of 'Abdu'l-Bah", sec 133, pp. 151-52)


from the link: Health, Healing, and Nutrition

.
Dale - This is the Quote I have always focused on - The Problem is when someone has an/the Illness, that to arise to be able to commit to the cure is nigh on impossible for them. The Illness will not partake of the cure

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
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Old 12-02-2014, 12:20 PM   #42
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Anyone around who leads a carefree, happy life?

What people call success is only preparation for the next failure.
AUGUST STRINDBERG, A Dream Play

And on that happy note I'll leave the discussion for now.


gnat

P. S. And I maintain my basic approach: suffering is sooooo boring!

Last edited by gnat; 12-02-2014 at 12:31 PM.
 
Old 12-02-2014, 12:30 PM   #43
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Anyone around who leads a carefree, happy life?

What people call success is only preparation for the next failure.
AUGUST STRINDBERG, A Dream Play

And on that happy note I'll leave the discussion for now.

gnat
Carefree - I hope not, I would be very worried

But am I Happy Happy and Full of Joy - You betcha

Are Tribulations and Toil our lot? God bless us all for what we need.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 12-02-2014, 12:52 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by dale ramsdell View Post
gnat,
. There is no doubt truth in what you say, for people can indeed be stressed by the isolation created when swimming up river in the midst of a society hell bent on going downstream. I think that as Baha'is, we are faced with tests that many others do not always face.

. Nevertheless, depression and other problems are very real and exist in the Baha'i population as much as elsewhere. We have, however, an alternative to the purely materialistic understanding of medicine, recognizing it in its place, but also reliance upon spirituality and prayer.

. "Resort ye, in times of sickness, to competent physicians; We have not set aside the use of material means, rather have We confirmed it through this Pen, which God hath made to be the Dawning-place of His shining and glorious Cause."

(Bah'u'llh, The Kitb-i-Aqdas, p. 60)

. "Do not neglect medical treatment when it is necessary, but leave it off when health has been restored.... Treat disease through diet, by preference, refraining from the use of drugs; and if you find what is required in a single herb, do not resort to a compounded medicament. Abstain from drugs when the health is good, but administer them when necessary."

(Bah'u'llh, cited in J. E. Esslemont, "Bah'u'llh and the New Era", 5th rev. ed. (Wilmette: Bah' Publishing Trust, 1987), p. 106)


. "There are two ways of healing sickness, material means and spiritual means. The first is by the treatment of physicians; the second consisteth in prayers offered by the spiritual ones to God and in turning to Him. Both means should be used and practised.

Illnesses which occur by reason of physical causes should be treated by doctors with medical remedies; those which are due to spiritual causes disappear through spiritual means. Thus an illness caused by affliction, fear, nervous impressions, will be healed more effectively by spiritual rather than by physical treatment. Hence, both kinds of treatment should be followed; they are not contradictory. Therefore thou shouldst also accept physical remedies inasmuch as these too have come from the mercy and favour of God, Who hath revealed and made manifest medical science so that His servants may profit from this kind of treatment also. Thou shouldst give equal attention to spiritual treatments, for they produce marvellous effects.

Now, if thou wishest to know the true remedy which will heal man from all sickness and will give him the health of the divine kingdom, know that it is the precepts and teachings of God. Focus thine attention upon them."

("Selections from the Writings of 'Abdu'l-Bah", sec 133, pp. 151-52)


from the link: Health, Healing, and Nutrition

.
Dear Dale yes we are to use doctors as well as the spiritual, quite correct.

Sadly at this time, we do not have sufficiant Baha'i doctors who should have more understanding of a persons needs, both physical and spiritual, but hopefully that will change as time goes on.
In the meantime most doctors do not consider the spiritual need.
And sadly as I have found some Baha'i doctors also have their failings.

I have read of a lot of suffering out there in different comunities quite needless I feel, by Baha'i who have no compassion for those in their communities, who not only suffer a mentall illness, but at times who are only physically ill, or even just isolated.

I ask where is the love, the compassion we as Baha's are supposed to show forth, I feel that some people are just too comfortable and to consider, think about others, is just too much work. sigh and double sigh.
 
Old 12-02-2014, 01:01 PM   #45
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I ask where is the love, the compassion we as Baha's are supposed to show forth, I feel that some people are just too comfortable and to consider, think about others, is just too much work. sigh and double sigh.
It is inside you. Just do it yourself, then, without asking what the others are doing. That's what I did when I started doing my translations. I cannot say that the benefits were that impressive for myself, but at least the translations were done. One day, shamefaced in front of the heavenly reception desk, at least I can say that I did dedicate a few hours of this stupid life to something constructive. And the answer most likely will be "Ok, we have a corner in the boiler room, if you don't mind the neighbours - those red, funny-looking critters with horns on their foreheads who are in the habit of partying around the sulphur pits at night".

gnat

Last edited by gnat; 12-02-2014 at 01:05 PM.
 
Old 12-02-2014, 01:25 PM   #46
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It is inside you. Just do it yourself, then, without asking what the others are doing. That's what I did when I started doing my translations. I cannot say that the benefits were that impressive for myself, but at least the translations were done. One day, shamefaced in front of the heavenly reception desk, at least I can say that I did dedicate a few hours of this stupid life to something constructive. And the answer most likely will be "Ok, we have a corner in the boiler room, if you don't mind the neighbours - those red, funny-looking critters with horns on their foreheads who are in the habit of partying around the sulphur pits at night".

gnat
You are correct in saying.............

Quote:
]It is inside you. Just do it yourself, then, without asking what the others are doing.
But, yes sorry I feel a but coming on. big smile

Is it wrong tp encourage others to better behaviour in a wide sweeping way such as a forum, where I speak to all, even myself?
 
Old 12-02-2014, 01:28 PM   #47
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But, yes sorry I feel a but coming on. big smile

Is it wrong tp encourage others to better behaviour in a wide sweeping way such as a forum, where I speak to all, even myself?
Ah, never mind. Your dark moments are like bright, sunny days compared to mine.

But if there is a bucket and a brush waiting to e used down there in Chile, I might be interested.

And, by the way, we are talking the real thing here. That feels good.

gnat

Last edited by gnat; 12-03-2014 at 01:24 AM.
 
Old 12-02-2014, 01:47 PM   #48
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Ah, never mind. Your dark moments are like bright, sunny days compared to mine - the world should be happy that I'm not in charge of the button that controls the nukes.

But if there is a bucket and a brush waiting to e used down there in Chile, I might be interested.

And, by the way, we are talking the real thing here. That feels good.

gnat
Yes there are days when I would like to have control of that button also, but thankfuly we do not have that power.

Not sure what bucket and brush you are refering to. If by this term you mean work, Baha'i service, well yes I am sure their is, but then that could be said of all countries of the world.
There are so many areas of this land were the people have not heard and have no idea of what Baha'i is.
 
Old 12-03-2014, 01:44 AM   #49
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Personally, I very much like the prayer below, written by 'Abdu'l-Bah in an extremely difficult moment:

O God, my God! Thou seest me plunged in an ocean of anguish, held fast to the fires of tyranny, and weeping in the darkness of the night. Sleepless I toss and turn upon my bed, mine eyes straining to behold the morning light of faithfulness and trust. I agonize even as a fish, its inward parts afire as it leapeth about in terror upon the sand, yet I ever look for Thy bestowals to appear from every side.

O God, my God! Make thou the believers in other lands to partake of Thine abounding grace, deliver Thou, by Thine unfailing help and bounty, whoso among Thy loved ones in the farthermost climes sigheth over the bitter cruelty of his foe. O Lord, they are the captives of Thy love, the prisoners taken by Thy troops. They are the birds that fly in the heavens of Thy guidance, the whales that swim in the ocean of Thy bestowals, the stars that sparkle on the horizon of Thy gifts. They are the defenders of the fortress of Thy law. They are the banners of Thy remembrance amongst men. They are the deep wells of Thy divine compassion, the fountains of Thy favours, the well-springs of Thy grace.

Keep them ever in safety beneath Thine all-protecting eye. Assist them to exalt Thy Word; make Thou their hearts to be constant in Thy love; strengthen Thou their backs that they may serve Thee well; in servitude, strengthen Thou their powers.

Spread Thou through them Thy sweet savours far and wide; expound through them Thy Holy Writ; make known through them Thine Utterance; fulfil through them Thy Words; through them pour out Thy mercy.

Thou art verily the Mighty, the Powerful. Thou art verily the Clement, the Compassionate.



gnat
 
Old 12-03-2014, 03:46 AM   #50
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A lovely prayer dear friend but sadly I feel you have no idea, of the many different types of mental illness are out there in the world, and the suffering it causes to many people, and by many people to the sufferers because of their lack understanding.

I have worked for many years, as I have said before with people of the most severe mental health problems, and I only have a little knowledge of such, but I have the knowledge of how much we need to become aware and have compassion. Of how little the medical world knows of such problems, have seen first hand how these professionals treat people with mental problems as less than human.

Have had enough of the wreckers in life, and am always happy to meet a builder.
For me builders are those who show compassion, who can emphasize with others weaknesses, who encourage and give hope. Who show understanding of suffering.
While wreckers are those who show no compassion, no emphathy. who must never show a weakness, and tell others that they just need to pull up their socks so to speak. Get over it and such non helpful phrases. Who show a total lack of understanding of suffering.

Oh how many wreckers I have seen in my now near 70 years.
This is not what Baha'u'llah teaches, and not what the Perfect Exemplar showed us in action.
 
Old 12-03-2014, 04:18 AM   #51
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Oh how many wreckers I have seen in my now near 70 years.
This is not what Baha'u'llah teaches, and not what the Perfect Exemplar showed us in action.
Dear Bill,
Oh, yes indeed. You are absolutely right.

gnat

Last edited by gnat; 12-03-2014 at 05:31 AM.
 
Old 12-03-2014, 04:31 AM   #52
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Dear Bill,
I know what you mean by "wreckers", but please try to concentrate on that which is positive inside you: that which you can show, which you want others to show.

I could tell you what I am going through right now, but I don't wish to go into detail. Someone tried, five years ago, to fool me into becoming an accomplice in what I call "attempted murder using the tongue as a weapon" - the victims being innocent people, who had escaped from torture and persecution, now once again becoming the victims of lieful and deceitful slander, which could have cost them their lives by removing all the support they had from friends and authorities. Deceit and lies managed to bring much of that about, but the persons in question luckily have not been delivered into the hands of their persecutors.

And the "best" part of all: the only reason behind this campaign of hate was that one of the persecuted persons unknowingly managed to step on the wrong toe of that "someone".

During these five years, I have concentrated on showing as much love as I could - and more than that - to my two little lovely children, so as to avoid their being contaminated by that tradition of ruthless, lieful slander.

Right now, I am obliged by circumstances to come to terms with these terrible events, as lost as to the way to deal with them as I was five years ago. I am categorically unable to understand how to deal with people who have no conscience.

I wouldn't mind a prayer or two.

gnat
Beloved friend yes will pray for you.

But I feel you are not understanding the point of this thread.
This thread is only about Mental illness, and those who suffer its dreadful effects. And it is about how we as members of Baha'i communities can be more understanding and loving towards people who suffer Mental Illness.

And no I do not wish to hear of your suffering caused by a person or persons who are only acting in a bad way, if you wish to share this knowledge I pray you do so only by personal message, as I would not wish to see saddness caused to any reader, or ammunition for the enemies of the faith.
 
Old 12-03-2014, 04:40 AM   #53
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All over the world one hears beautiful sayings extolled and noble precepts admired. All men say they love what is good, and hate everything that is evil! Sincerity is to be admired, whilst lying is despicable. Faith is a virtue, and treachery is a disgrace to humanity. It is a blessed thing to gladden the hearts of men, and wrong to be the cause of pain. To be kind and merciful is right, while to hate is sinful. Justice is a noble quality and injustice an iniquity. That it is one's duty to be pitiful and harm no one, and to avoid jealousy and malice at all costs. Wisdom is the glory of man, not ignorance; light, not darkness! It is a good thing to turn one's face toward God, and foolishness to ignore Him. That it is our duty to guide man upward, and not to mislead him and be the cause of his downfall. There are many more examples like unto these.

26.2
But all these sayings are but words and we see very few of them carried into the world of action. On the contrary, we perceive that men are carried away by passion and selfishness, each man thinking only of what will benefit himself even if it means the ruin of his brother. They are all anxious to make their fortune and care little or nothing for the welfare of others. They are concerned about their own peace and comfort, while the condition of their fellows troubles them not at all.

26.3
Unhappily this is the road most men tread.

26.4
But Bah's must not be thus; they must rise above this condition. Actions must be more to them than words. By their actions they must be merciful and not merely by their words. They must on all occasions confirm by their actions what they proclaim in words. Their deeds must prove their fidelity, and their actions must show forth Divine light.

26.5
Let your actions cry aloud to the world that you are indeed Bah's, for it is actions that speak to the world and are the cause of the progress of humanity.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 79)
 
Old 12-03-2014, 05:03 AM   #54
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Then, O ye friends of God! Appreciate the value of this precious Revelation, move and act in accordance with it and walk in the straight path and the right way. Show it to the people. Raise the melody of the Kingdom and spread abroad the teachings and ordinances of the loving Lord so that the world may become another world, the darkened earth may become illumined and the dead body of the people may obtain new life. Every soul may seek everlasting life through the breath of the Merciful. Life in this mortal world will quickly come to an end, and this earthly glory, wealth, comfort and happiness will soon vanish and be no more. Summon ye the people to God and call the souls to the manners and conduct of the Supreme Concourse. To the orphans be ye kind fathers, and to the unfortunate a refuge and shelter. To the poor be a treasure of wealth, and to the sick a remedy and healing. Be a helper of every oppressed one, the protector of every destitute one, be ye ever mindful to serve any soul of mankind. Attach no importance to self-seeking, rejection, arrogance, oppression and enmity. Heed them not. Deal in the contrary way. Be kind in truth, not only in appearance and outwardly. Every soul of the friends of God must concentrate his mind on this, that he may manifest the mercy of God and the bounty of the Forgiving One. He must do good to every soul whom he encounters, and render benefit to him, becoming the cause of improving the morals and correcting the thoughts so that the light of guidance may shine forth and the bounty of His Holiness the Merciful One may encompass. Love is light in whatsoever house it may shine and enmity is darkness in whatsoever abode it dwell.

O friends of God! Strive ye so that this darkness may be utterly dispelled and the Hidden Mystery may be revealed and the realities of things made evident and manifest.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 216)


I emphasize this section............

Summon ye the people to God and call the souls to the manners and conduct of the Supreme Concourse. To the orphans be ye kind fathers, and to the unfortunate a refuge and shelter. To the poor be a treasure of wealth, and to the sick a remedy and healing. Be a helper of every oppressed one, the protector of every destitute one, be ye ever mindful to serve any soul of mankind. Attach no importance to self-seeking, rejection, arrogance, oppression and enmity. Heed them not. Deal in the contrary way. Be kind in truth, not only in appearance and outwardly. Every soul of the friends of God must concentrate his mind on this, that he may manifest the mercy of God and the bounty of the Forgiving One. He must do good to every soul whom he encounters, and render benefit to him, becoming the cause of improving the morals and correcting the thoughts so that the light of guidance may shine forth and the bounty of His Holiness the Merciful One may encompass. Love is light in whatsoever house it may shine and enmity is darkness in whatsoever abode it dwell.

Last edited by BlinkeyBill; 12-03-2014 at 05:05 AM. Reason: bold
 
Old 12-03-2014, 05:25 AM   #55
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And no I do not wish to hear of your suffering caused by a person or persons who are only acting in a bad way, if you wish to share this knowledge I pray you do so only by personal message, as I would not wish to see saddness caused to any reader, or ammunition for the enemies of the faith.
Oh, sorry.

gnat

Last edited by gnat; 12-03-2014 at 05:35 AM.
 
Old 12-03-2014, 05:59 AM   #56
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Oh, sorry.

gnat
Quite OK my dear friend.
 
Old 12-06-2014, 09:47 AM   #57
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People need to know, how people with mental illness can be great acheivers also.

As here.............

BBC News - We?re adults, not children, says learning disabled girl band
 
Old 12-20-2014, 06:52 AM   #58
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This time of the year can be a great problem for those who suffer a mental illness, I would encourage one and all who know of even the possibility of such a person to visit, invite to your home or in some way go out of your way to show love and compassion to them at this time.

Here is an interesting article...........

BBC News - 'Depression and Christmas just don't go'
 
Old 12-20-2014, 01:10 PM   #59
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Dear Tony I found the article you listed most interesting.
Unfortunately I quote here "Check us out at Š‡‘‚’‘な„‚ƒƒƒ–ƒ€‚„–™‚ƒ ƒŠƒで‚ƒƒ‚’楽—‚‚† and consider becoming a member." When I clicked upon this entry it took me to a site in all Chinese, or assume that was the language, not sure if it has been hacked?

Yes the site for this Baha'i mental health group appears to have a Japanese Gambling take over of the name, have done a search, and as yet have not found a link to this organisation.

Last edited by BlinkeyBill; 12-20-2014 at 01:24 PM. Reason: Add text
 
Old 12-20-2014, 01:40 PM   #60
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Sorry Bill did not open that link so deleted reply - Regards Tony
 
Old 12-20-2014, 02:28 PM   #61
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Sorry Bill did not open that link so deleted reply - Regards Tony
Thats OK friend, no reason to delete your post though, was interesting regarding the Baha'i proffesionals.
 
Old 12-20-2014, 10:15 PM   #62
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I forget the details, memory has become unreliable due to illness and meds,the BBC has done an article on middle-aged men alone this Christmas. Apparently there are several thousands in UK. Understandably many people are aware of the lonely elderly at this time. Everyone, I think assumes that this time of year doesn't impact upon male adults
 
Old 12-21-2014, 05:40 AM   #63
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I forget the details, memory has become unreliable due to illness and meds,the BBC has done an article on middle-aged men alone this Christmas. Apparently there are several thousands in UK. Understandably many people are aware of the lonely elderly at this time. Everyone, I think assumes that this time of year doesn't impact upon male adults
Sadly with many marriage breakdowns, there are more people in lonely situations.
Woman have far more assistance than men, with self help groups and also Government institutions.
But men are learning and now there is slowly more self help groups being formed, also some churches offer assistance at this time. Something I feel that Local Spiritual Assemblies need to consider.

I still remember one Christmas after being told to leave my house and my marriage, because I was ill with my CFS and no other reason, my daughter the last one who had, I felt a loving relationship with, told me that she would spend the day with my wife as she had already accepted the invitation, I still remember my shock and hurt, that she did not take into account what had been done to me, and my daughter apparently did not understand the hurt and lonliness that she was inflicting, upon one now suffering a severe illness, rejection from the woman I had loved, and now I was to be deprived of my daughter and two granddaughters. Yes that was many years ago, but the pain of that day still lingers.

So dear aidan I have empathy of what you speak about.
So dear friend check your e-mail box I will be writing to you, because of distance sadly I can't come and visit.

Loving regards
bill
 
Old 08-07-2015, 01:35 AM   #64
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How could one even imagine such a thing as people who might have behaved in a sane way before, when meeting the Faith, demonstrating passive-aggressive, narcissistic, psychopathic behaviour as a defence against this absolutely incomprehensible reality?
... or it's just your interpretation that this is what happens.

I've been around for a while and I've noticed that many religious people, from different denominations, have two things in common:
1. They negatively stigmatize anyone who doesn't submit to their religion.
2. They are blind to the fact that all kinds of religious people want other people to join their particular religion.

For someone who is not affiliated with any particular religion, the situation with different religions is like being pulled by a dozen people in different religions, and they're all saying the same thing ("Follow me, I am right, and all the others are wrong!"), but each of them is pulling in a different direction.

In the face of this being pulled in all directions, if a person doesn't "demonstrate passive-aggressive, narcissistic, psychopathic behaviour" -- then such a person must be really really advanced, or catatonic.
 
Old 08-07-2015, 01:42 AM   #65
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How do we bridge a gap of understanding mental illness and reconciling it with our blessed faith.

Do we judge those among us who have illness of any kind, with love and understanding?
"Mental illness" according to whose definition of "mental illness"?
Western psychologists'?

Why subscribe to a religion, but then, in some areas of life, subscribe to the definitions made by people who less or more oppose said religion??
 
Old 08-07-2015, 02:07 AM   #66
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For someone who is not affiliated with any particular religion, the situation with different religions is like being pulled by a dozen people in different religions, and they're all saying the same thing ("Follow me, I am right, and all the others are wrong!"), but each of them is pulling in a different direction.
Then it must be refreshing when you find one that will tell you they all come from the same source and choose your own path and make up your own mind.

Of course this does not explain the complexities of such a statement

Regards Tony

Last edited by tonyfish58; 08-07-2015 at 02:11 AM.
 
Old 08-07-2015, 02:19 AM   #67
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Then it must be refreshing when you find one that will tell you they all come from the same source and choose your own path and make up your own mind.
Not at all, because there isn't just one who says that.
 
Old 08-10-2015, 07:27 AM   #68
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"Mental illness" according to whose definition of "mental illness"?
Western psychologists'?

Why subscribe to a religion, but then, in some areas of life, subscribe to the definitions made by people who less or more oppose said religion??
Dear Sophia,

As so often, you have a point there, and that theme could be elaborated on many pages.

gnat
 
Old 09-28-2015, 11:56 AM   #69
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I had a psychosis 10 years ago that would have been diagnosed as schizophrenia, had it lasted longer. For these four weeks, my perception of reality was distorted, much like people might describe a bad LSD trip or such. It was NOT a matter of a false attitude, "bad mood". It was a false balance of brain chemistry and very real.

Fortunately, I got medication that quickly helped me. I've been taking it on a low dose since then, attempts at quitting it were not successful, but thanks to this medication, I can live a happy, "normal" life now.

It was this very experience that triggered my spiritual journey away from atheism.

I'd like to say it clearly here: Anyone who claims mental illness does not exist, or is just a matter of definition, is clearly either ignorant or totally lacking empathy here. Likewise, I cannot agree with anyone who dismisses the value of Western medicine when it comes to this topic.

There are serious forms of mental illness that are not any less real than a broken bone, and some which can just as well be addressed with standard material medicine -- though, needless to say, a purely materialistic life will be just as one-sided for a person with a mental illness, like for everybody else.

I'm sorry if I'm too direct saying this, but this topic is "close to home" for me. The world would certainly be a better place if more people had more empathy with people suffering from one form of mental illness or another.
 
Old 09-28-2015, 02:45 PM   #70
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Joined: Jul 2011
From: n ireland
Posts: 1,747
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian View Post
I had a psychosis 10 years ago that would have been diagnosed as schizophrenia, had it lasted longer. For these four weeks, my perception of reality was distorted, much like people might describe a bad LSD trip or such. It was NOT a matter of a false attitude, "bad mood". It was a false balance of brain chemistry and very real.

Fortunately, I got medication that quickly helped me. I've been taking it on a low dose since then, attempts at quitting it were not successful, but thanks to this medication, I can live a happy, "normal" life now.

It was this very experience that triggered my spiritual journey away from atheism.

I'd like to say it clearly here: Anyone who claims mental illness does not exist, or is just a matter of definition, is clearly either ignorant or totally lacking empathy here. Likewise, I cannot agree with anyone who dismisses the value of Western medicine when it comes to this topic.

There are serious forms of mental illness that are not any less real than a broken bone, and some which can just as well be addressed with standard material medicine -- though, needless to say, a purely materialistic life will be just as one-sided for a person with a mental illness, like for everybody else.

I'm sorry if I'm too direct saying this, but this topic is "close to home" for me. The world would certainly be a better place if more people had more empathy with people suffering from one form of mental illness or another.
I concur with Sebastian 100%. There's still so much societal ignorance re this difficult aspect of illness
 
Old 09-29-2015, 03:11 AM   #71
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Joined: Aug 2015
From: Europe
Posts: 380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastian View Post
I but thanks to this medication, I can live a happy, "normal" life now.
Depends what you mean by "happy" and "normal."

Many people live a life of quiet desperation and call it happy and normal.
 
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