Bahai Forums

Go Back   Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Social Practices

Baha'i Social Practices Baha'i Social Practices - Laws, Marriage, Work, Places of Worship


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-24-2014, 09:53 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
BlinkeyBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Quilimari,Chile
Posts: 4,213
Bridging The Gap Between Religion And Mental Illness

This subject has been discussed a little in the past, but I feel it needs being kept in our awareness more.

I have because of my past training in working in the field of working with people of very severe mental illness, and then later in life because of having a very severe disabling illness and sufering with depression, have tried to champion awareness within the Baha'i community. Yes amazingly have also been attacked by certain people who considered I had no right to speak on these issues because they had elitest issues that they did not consider just having depression was not sufficiant for myself to speak on mental health problems.
I rember thinking at the time, like wow, I was trying to get people to have more compassion, understanding and asking for people to consult together on these issues, and here was a person I was trying to help, attacking me, but OK.

It is sad at this time in our Baha'i history less than 200 years that as the faith grows we need proffesionals in many different fields to help those who feel dis-empowered in our society. For instance those who have knowledge of the faith please tell us of the other buildings that are to be connected with our Temples for instance.

Our faith is so much more than just having places to pray and worship our Creator.

Was reading of how other faiths are also struggling and learning how to deal with mental illness. For instance in the USA alone apparently 42 million people suffer a type of mental illness.

Here... Bridging The Gap Between Religion And Mental Illness

How I look forward to the day, when our baha'i friends who struggle with these problems will not only have institutions to go to for help, but the general Baha'i society will view them with more compassion and love and understnding, and the old stigma's will be a thing of the past.

Would appreciate all thoughts upon the subject, and please one and all show forth patience and love to those you may feel have no or different understandings than you do.
 
Join Baha'i Forums


Welcome to Baha'i Forums, an open Baha'i Faith community! We welcome everyone and the community is free to join so register today and become part of the Baha'i Forums family!


Old 11-24-2014, 01:22 PM   #2
Minor Bloodsucker
 
gnat's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2014
From: Stockholm
Posts: 1,600
Oh, mental illness and the Baháís: that's an interesting matter. On the one hand, we have the established approaches among psychiatrists and psychologists. They differ fundamentally from the Faith, as they don't have the spiritual approach: that there is a little soul seed within each of us, which has an urge to grow. They also don't have an approach centered on virtues, but tend to have a relativistic approach to values.

On the other hand, there is a widespread conviction among the Bahá'ís that mental problems are cured solely through prayer and working for the Faith - an approach that differs fundamentally from Bahá'u'lláh's injunction that we are to seek out competent doctors.

Am I surprised then that you ran into problems?

And then - oh dear - humans meeting a new reality, with an Authority, the like of which they haven't come across before. What could possibly go wrong? How could one even imagine such a thing as people who might have behaved in a sane way before, when meeting the Faith, demonstrating passive-aggressive, narcissistic, psychopathic behaviour as a defence against this absolutely incomprehensible reality?

Confusingly yours,

gnat

Last edited by gnat; 11-24-2014 at 01:31 PM.
 
Old 11-24-2014, 02:57 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
BlinkeyBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Quilimari,Chile
Posts: 4,213
Loving great smile dear gnat now you have confused me.

But then that is not a very difficuly task another loving smile.

There are many Baha'is that have mental health issues, but what some Baha'is fail to understand is that these people are God's creation also, that any illness has no effect on ones soul.
One is to treat any person with any illness with love and compassion I would trust that we all do, and do not steriotype these people.

What I would like to see more of in our glorious faith is love, that no one in our community would ever feel islotated and unloved, that we would become like the Master visiting the sick and aged on a regular and caring basis.
 
Old 11-24-2014, 03:06 PM   #4
Minor Bloodsucker
 
gnat's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2014
From: Stockholm
Posts: 1,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
What I would like to see more of in our glorious faith is love, that no one in our community would ever feel islotated and unloved, that we would become like the Master visiting the sick and aged on a regular and caring basis.
Love! honestly, that word sometimes is just revolting to me. So much talk about love. In the Soviet Union, "comrade" became a formal title, very much like "esquire" or your honor". Sometimes I feel that "love" in daily talk tends to acquire the same kind of ritual meaninglessness. My opinion is: don't talk about it, just do it! One could begin at a much lower level, like tolerance.

Best (as I often write, reserving "love" for special occasions),

from

gnat

Last edited by gnat; 11-24-2014 at 03:13 PM.
 
Old 11-24-2014, 03:56 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
BlinkeyBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Quilimari,Chile
Posts: 4,213
You may be right dear gnat, I would not know.

But for me it is something I feel in my heart, and I am sorry but it just bubbles out, I appear to no longer have controll of it. loving smile, so please forgive me.

But please if you have lone people in your community please visit them occasionally and give them tollerance.

I give you my tollerance also, loving smile.
 
Old 11-24-2014, 04:02 PM   #6
Minor Bloodsucker
 
gnat's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2014
From: Stockholm
Posts: 1,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
But for me it is something I feel in my heart, and I am sorry but it just bubbles out, I appear to no longer have controll of it. loving smile, so please forgive me.
But then every time is a special occasion for you!

And I tell my little children, at least five times a day, how much I love them. And I show them that it's not just words. That's my constant inoculation of them - I guess you've noticed what kind of language today's young ones often use!

But what I kind of react to, is when "love" kind of automatically is used in the self-descriptions of our communities.

Love, ()

from

gnat

Last edited by gnat; 11-24-2014 at 04:09 PM.
 
Old 11-24-2014, 04:05 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
BlinkeyBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Quilimari,Chile
Posts: 4,213
Yes sadly there are always the, but then's
 
Old 11-25-2014, 06:44 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
BlinkeyBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Quilimari,Chile
Posts: 4,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
But then every time is a special occasion for you!

And I tell my little children, at least five times a day, how much I love them. And I show them that it's not just words. That's my constant inoculation of them - I guess you've noticed what kind of language today's young ones often use!

But what I kind of react to, is when "love" kind of automatically is used in the self-descriptions of our communities.

Love, ()

from

gnat
Dear gnat what you say about puting our love into action is basicaly what I have been asking us all to do, in following the Master's actions. We need to think about our communities and see for ourselves what need is there, and fill it.

A person can say they love someone every time they meet, but if there are no actions to back up that claim, rapidly it becomes seen for what it is, only words and dead words at that.

Loving regards to you and all forum members.
 
Old 11-25-2014, 08:42 AM   #9
Minor Bloodsucker
 
gnat's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2014
From: Stockholm
Posts: 1,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
Dear gnat what you say about puting our love into action is basicaly what I have been asking us all to do, in following the Master's actions. We need to think about our communities and see for ourselves what need is there, and fill it.
Well, I identified the need for translations at a very difficult point in my life. Can't really say that the translation work has helped me solve my problems, but at least the translations have been done.

Best,

from

gnat

Last edited by gnat; 11-25-2014 at 08:46 AM.
 
Old 11-25-2014, 09:08 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
BlinkeyBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Quilimari,Chile
Posts: 4,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
Well, I identified the need for translations at a very difficult point in my life. Can't really say that the translation work has helped me solve my problems, but at least the translations have been done.

Best,

from

gnat
Dear friend but the translations are so desperately needed, it is a service for others, not necessarily to help your problems. But then again as you were translating and reading did you not receive benefit? I feel you would have.

All service done without selfish aims are a beneit are they not. (I emphasize without selfish aims)

Loving regards to you, and a big loving hug in my mind, sorry I cant visit and give it in person.
 
Old 11-26-2014, 02:21 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
becky's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
From: colorado/summer-Oklahoma/winter
Posts: 785
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
You may be right dear gnat, I would not know.

But for me it is something I feel in my heart, and I am sorry but it just bubbles out, I appear to no longer have controll of it. loving smile, so please forgive me.

But please if you have lone people in your community please visit them occasionally and give them tollerance.

I give you my tollerance also, loving smile.
Dear Bill,
I personally LOVE the word love. It is not meaningless chatter to me, maybe to some, but not for me. Love...sharing it, showing it, feeling it for all is what I feel the greatest sense of urgency. I don't think there are enough hours in the day to do God's work. Like Gnat says, do it, but since we are not supposed to talk about what we do, we can only verbally urge everyone to share God's love. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE... the purpose of our lives.
Loving regards,
Becky
 
Old 11-26-2014, 02:47 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
BlinkeyBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Quilimari,Chile
Posts: 4,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by becky View Post
Dear Bill,
I personally LOVE the word love. It is not meaningless chatter to me, maybe to some, but not for me. Love...sharing it, showing it, feeling it for all is what I feel the greatest sense of urgency. I don't think there are enough hours in the day to do God's work. Like Gnat says, do it, but since we are not supposed to talk about what we do, we can only verbally urge everyone to share God's love. LOVE, LOVE, LOVE... the purpose of our lives.
Loving regards,
Becky
Belovd sister, yes love, speak it, do it, show it, be it.
I wrote the above with love and humour, for our dear friend who considered that the word is being used to much and become trivial.
But I feel the urgancy to try and get my brothers and sisters to arise to greater heights, I spend most of my time here, I would rather be out there walking the roads, streets etc telling people of Baha, but due to my age and health I can not.

And because I have witnessed in the past and now experience myself what it is to be aged, or ill, or islolated the need of following the blessed Master our exemplar, and visit, and help, and bring comfort, and bring laughter, but above all bring love.
 
Old 11-27-2014, 11:07 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2013
From: forest falls california
Posts: 1,773
The Beatles

Quote:
Originally Posted by becky View Post

LOVE, LOVE, LOVE...
Hey! The Beatles song... ;-)
 
Old 11-27-2014, 12:29 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
BlinkeyBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Quilimari,Chile
Posts: 4,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by dale ramsdell View Post
Hey! The Beatles song... ;-)
ha ha dear friend we are connected this was running through my mind this morning thinkning of dear becky's reply, I even tried breaking out in song much to the surprise of my dear wife who was not expecting it at the breakfast table. Had to explain.
 
Old 11-27-2014, 01:21 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
BlinkeyBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Quilimari,Chile
Posts: 4,213
Dear friends one and all

The heading here says it all Bridging the gap.

How do we bridge a gap of understanding mental illness and reconciling it with our blessed faith.

Do we judge those among us who have illness of any kind, with love and understanding?
When we discover that another in our community has mental illness, do we judge them differently from ourselves or others?
When we make this discovery do we make a little more allowance for their perceived behaviour at times?

We need to think of these things, from this thinking we will discover our level of compassion, love etc.

A bridge does not just appear, it is built slowly over time, with great effort and cost.
Are we prepared to have a bridge?
Are we prepared for the cost?
Are we prepared for the effort needed?
One may ask finally are we Baha'i?
 
Old 11-27-2014, 04:04 PM   #16
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
tonyfish58's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: Normanton Far North Queensland
Posts: 3,966
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
Love! honestly, that word sometimes is just revolting to me. So much talk about love. In the Soviet Union, "comrade" became a formal title, very much like "esquire" or your honor". Sometimes I feel that "love" in daily talk tends to acquire the same kind of ritual meaninglessness. My opinion is: don't talk about it, just do it! One could begin at a much lower level, like tolerance.

Best (as I often write, reserving "love" for special occasions),

from

gnat
Dear Gnat - Over the Years "Love" is tested on many Levels, the Test is always for us to learn what is "Love".

The Master was an example of "Pure Love". His Love embraced both most ardent Believer and most ardent Covenant Breaker.

Love has no "Special Occasions", it is unconditional.

But we are here to learn how to achieve this Goal and may God Bless us all with this Love, the Love that has no Self, the Love that is of God.

Each day little by little may this Love find our heart free from the dross of this world and thus reflect it more to mankind!

Bill is 100% correct, we as Baha'is have a long way to go to obtain this Love even amongst ourselves, let alone project it to mankind.

God Bless All - Regards Tony
 
Old 11-30-2014, 01:07 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
BlinkeyBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Quilimari,Chile
Posts: 4,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
But then every time is a special occasion for you!

And I tell my little children, at least five times a day, how much I love them. And I show them that it's not just words. That's my constant inoculation of them - I guess you've noticed what kind of language today's young ones often use!

But what I kind of react to, is when "love" kind of automatically is used in the self-descriptions of our communities.

Love, ()

from

gnat
dear friend I keep coming back to this post of yours.

I am so happy that you keep telling your children how much you love them, I did the same with my own children.
But life sometimes does not come out as we would wish.

Look at the Holy family for an example, I am sure that Baha'u'llah showed His love continually, but how many of His family became covenant breakers, how much sadness did they cause.

As with my dear children loving and sacrificing does not always mean they will love you in the end, I guess that is why it is called unconditional love.

Anyway dear friend my experience hopefully will not be your experience, but if it is I trust you will continue to love them as I do mine.

Quote:
But what I kind of react to, is when "love" kind of automatically is used in the self-descriptions of our communities.
Oh yes my friend I know of what you speak, but the actions give them away. I have suffered greatly also because of this false love. But we are told to love even our worst enemies are we not, so as difficult as it is we have to come to an understanding within ourselves and forgive. It is a matter of growth, we all have to go through, and no one has said that growth is easy, I remember my childhood. sigh.

Loving regards my friend

Last edited by BlinkeyBill; 11-30-2014 at 01:13 PM. Reason: add text
 
Old 11-30-2014, 01:35 PM   #18
Minor Bloodsucker
 
gnat's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2014
From: Stockholm
Posts: 1,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
But we are told to love even our worst enemies are we not....
Well, there are exceptions

"O ye beloved of the Lord! The Kingdom of God is founded upon equity and justice, and also upon mercy, compassion, and kindness to every living soul. Strive ye then with all your heart to treat compassionately all humankind—except for those who have some selfish, private motive, or some disease of the soul. Kindness cannot be shown the tyrant, the deceiver, or the thief, because, far from awakening them to the error of their ways, it maketh them to continue in their perversity as before. No matter how much kindliness ye may expend upon the liar, he will but lie the more, for he believeth you to be deceived, while ye understand him but too well, and only remain silent out of your extreme compassion."
Selections from the Writings of 'Abdu'l-Bahá, 138

gnat
 
Old 11-30-2014, 02:02 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
BlinkeyBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Quilimari,Chile
Posts: 4,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
Well, there are exceptions

"O ye beloved of the Lord! The Kingdom of God is founded upon equity and justice, and also upon mercy, compassion, and kindness to every living soul. Strive ye then with all your heart to treat compassionately all humankind—except for those who have some selfish, private motive, or some disease of the soul. Kindness cannot be shown the tyrant, the deceiver, or the thief, because, far from awakening them to the error of their ways, it maketh them to continue in their perversity as before. No matter how much kindliness ye may expend upon the liar, he will but lie the more, for he believeth you to be deceived, while ye understand him but too well, and only remain silent out of your extreme compassion."
Selections from the Writings of 'Abdu'l-Bahá, 138

gnat
Yes dear gnat this quote is one I often remember when others bash me for not being more loving to certain people.
So what is the ballance do you think?
Should we not as the quote says continue to show compassion?

I know I struggle with this many times.
 
Old 11-30-2014, 02:41 PM   #20
Minor Bloodsucker
 
gnat's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2014
From: Stockholm
Posts: 1,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
So what is the ballance do you think?
What can I say? I think I'll say it in a private message.

gnat
 
Old 11-30-2014, 02:51 PM   #21
Senior Member
 
BlinkeyBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Quilimari,Chile
Posts: 4,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
What can I say? I think I'll say it in a private message.

gnat
From my past experiences that may be wise.
 
Old 11-30-2014, 02:57 PM   #22
Minor Bloodsucker
 
gnat's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2014
From: Stockholm
Posts: 1,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
From my past experiences that may be wise.
To speak more generally, there are many strange people out there. There are people called psychopaths and narcissists. Once you have realized that you're dealing with a person who lacks a sense of decency and conscience, you're in for a horrible experience. To show love to such a person, one has to absolutely detach oneself from that person. But when it's not possibie? When you know that that person in any moment is able to do something absolutely disgusting to you or to others? I cannot say what is right.

And as Bahá'ís we have a particular problem. We are supposed to apply the sin-covering eye, and we do. But then we run the risk of finally accepting the sins of others and be used by people who enjoy being well-treated by us. Many of those strange people enjoy being surrounded by well-meaning, conscientious people like Bahá'ís. Not having a conscience of their own, they lean on somebody else's. One then is led to believe that that person is a well-meaning and conscientious person like oneself. But that is not the case - it's an act, a facade, which works until the day when a conflict appears between that person's interests and your good and friendly advice. All of a sudden, that person turns against you with full force. And you have no idea what happened. Where to strike a balance in such cases, that's the good question - when to love that person and when to just go away.

And the funny thing is that once that person has done something horrible, the next day, he/she may be back, asking you for advice, imitating your good behaviour, in order to get back on track, feigning to be as good as you - or even better. If you criticize that person, he/she might very well engage on a quest to prove that actually you are the morally depraved one, and that he/she for years has been trying to help and reform you. And the best part of it is that that person is very good at convincing people. Your only tools in the toolbox are truthfulness and sincerity. The other has so much more in the toolbox - falseness, lies, flattery, absolute conviction in his/her moral superiority, unfailing self-love....

The best part is that such people tend to thrive in packs or prides - sect-like unions for mutual flattery and merciless persecution of dissidents. I have some experience of that - oh, their values are impeccable, they stand up for solidarity, spirituality and what not. Your sin-covering eye makes you overlook the first indications of slander and persecution - it's usually not shown to you, you only get a glimpse now and then. And as a Bahá'í, you apply the sin-covering eye, thinking that you misunderstood something, and after all they are not Bahá'ís, and therefore not bound by our laws. But then - oh dear! - one day you face the explosion: your friends turn against you and your life crumbles. You have associated with liars and traitors, letting your good heart mislead you.

gnat

Last edited by gnat; 11-30-2014 at 03:34 PM.
 
Old 11-30-2014, 03:27 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
BlinkeyBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Quilimari,Chile
Posts: 4,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
To speak more generally, there are many strange people out there. There are people called psychopaths and narcissists. Once you have realized that you're dealing with a person who lacks a sense of decency and conscience, you're in for a horrible experience. To show love to such a person, one has to absolutely detach oneself from that person. But when it's not possibie? When you know that that person in any moment is able to do something absolutely disgusting to you or to others? I cannot say what is right.

gnat

P. S. And as Bahá'ís we have a particular problem. We are supposed to apply the sin-covering eye, and we do. But then we run the risk of finally accepting the sins of ohers and be used by people who enjoy being well-treated by us. Where to strike a balance in such cases, that's the good question.
Understood.

Lets get back to the person who just has a normal mental illness
Like myself who because of life, health issues, have struggled with depression.

I am amazed at responses I get from Baha'is who not only have no understanding they do not even try to understand, they do no study of mental illness and then try to tell people who suffer, foolish things, like all you have to do is study the Baha'i writings and you will get better. sigh

I suffer Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and have done now for more than 15 years, this is not a mental illness but when I tell people they have no understanding, I keep getting told I just need to exercise more, or change my diet etc, they demand I travel great distance to visit them, but they never visit. I keep getting told I should attend more Baha'i events etc, while to just shower takes all my strength and I collapse from fatigue, to walk one city block takes all my strength, and I could keep explaining. And I do for after I tell these loving Baha'is of my health problem a month later they ask if I am feeling better, or they say things like oh are you realy that ill? By the way there is no treatment for my illness, the doctors have no idea how to treat or help, and yes I have tried many other types of medicine etc, nothing has changed my heath.

What can I say?
 
Old 11-30-2014, 03:39 PM   #24
Minor Bloodsucker
 
gnat's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2014
From: Stockholm
Posts: 1,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
Understood.

Lets get back to the person who just has a normal mental illness
Like myself who because of life, health issues, have struggled with depression.

I am amazed at responses I get from Baha'is who not only have no understanding they do not even try to understand, they do no study of mental illness and then try to tell people who suffer, foolish things, like all you have to do is study the Baha'i writings and you will get better. sigh
That is just a sad joke. Look at the biographies of 'Abdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi. Such clinical descriptions of recurring depressions!

gnat
 
Old 11-30-2014, 03:53 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
BlinkeyBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Quilimari,Chile
Posts: 4,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
That is just a sad joke. Look at the biographies of 'Abdu'l-Bahá and Shoghi Effendi. Such clinical descriptions of recurring depressions!

gnat
Well yes it is sad.
One reason I keep encouraging Baha'is to follow the Masters example.
But I see so little of it. sigh
 
Old 11-30-2014, 04:45 PM   #26
Minor Bloodsucker
 
gnat's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2014
From: Stockholm
Posts: 1,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
Well yes it is sad.
One reason I keep encouraging Baha'is to follow the Masters example.
But I see so little of it. sigh
Never mind the Bahá'ís. I kind of like most of them. Of course I can get annoyed by the hobbit-like cosy lifestyle that seems to develop in old Bahá'í communities. But somehow it doesn't bother me as it did before. And if you don't allow yourself to be upset and very emotional, they tend to arrive at quite decent final views and decisions. Actually, one way to get out of depressive moods is to serve - to do something for the Faith, whether it is making sandwiches or translation.

Best,

from

gnat, who is not able to live like a hobbit
 
Old 11-30-2014, 06:24 PM   #27
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
tonyfish58's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: Normanton Far North Queensland
Posts: 3,966
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
Understood.

Lets get back to the person who just has a normal mental illness
Like myself who because of life, health issues, have struggled with depression.

I am amazed at responses I get from Baha'is who not only have no understanding they do not even try to understand, they do no study of mental illness and then try to tell people who suffer, foolish things, like all you have to do is study the Baha'i writings and you will get better. sigh

I suffer Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and have done now for more than 15 years, this is not a mental illness but when I tell people they have no understanding, I keep getting told I just need to exercise more, or change my diet etc, they demand I travel great distance to visit them, but they never visit. I keep getting told I should attend more Baha'i events etc, while to just shower takes all my strength and I collapse from fatigue, to walk one city block takes all my strength, and I could keep explaining. And I do for after I tell these loving Baha'is of my health problem a month later they ask if I am feeling better, or they say things like oh are you realy that ill? By the way there is no treatment for my illness, the doctors have no idea how to treat or help, and yes I have tried many other types of medicine etc, nothing has changed my heath.

What can I say?
Bill - Have you tried this one? Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Abdul-Baha Abbas, Pages 185-186

Take some honey, recite “Ya Baha-ul-ABHA,” and eat a little thereof for several days

Honey such a great Healing Food

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 11-30-2014, 06:48 PM   #28
Minor Bloodsucker
 
gnat's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2014
From: Stockholm
Posts: 1,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfish58 View Post
Bill - Have you tried this one? Bahá'í Reference Library - Tablets of Abdul-Baha Abbas, Pages 185-186

Take some honey, recite “Ya Baha-ul-ABHA,” and eat a little thereof for several days

Honey such a great Healing Food

God Bless and Regards Tony
Dear tonyfish,
1. Have you tried it yourself?
2. Are you sure that it's a cure for serious depression? I see no mention of that in the text.

Best,

from

gnat
 
Old 11-30-2014, 07:36 PM   #29
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
tonyfish58's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: Normanton Far North Queensland
Posts: 3,966
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
Dear tonyfish,
1. Have you tried it yourself?
2. Are you sure that it's a cure for serious depression? I see no mention of that in the text. Best, from gnat
Dear Gnat - It is what you want it to be. It may or may not work for any given case.

Please do not assume it will not.

Also please realize that in Life there are many illnesses and all have a cure, we are just yet to find them.

Paw Paw also another good Cure of many aspects of Health.

So is exercise, but you can see that would en an issue

Yes I use this all the time and it has worked for me. But that is me

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 11-30-2014, 07:46 PM   #30
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2013
From: forest falls california
Posts: 1,773
Exercise

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfish58 View Post
Dear Gnat - It is what you want it to be. It may or may not work for any given case.

Please do not assume it will not.

Also please realize that in Life there are many illnesses and all have a cure, we are just yet to find them.

Paw Paw also another good Cure of many aspects of Health.

So is exercise, but you can see that would en an issue

Yes I use this all the time and it has worked for me. But that is me

God Bless and Regards Tony

Exercise definitely helps me, but I have to drag myself out first, and that is often difficult. When the knees are hurting, can't walk very far, however. Playing some pool actually helps, as it keeps my body moving and stretching this way and that.

But for physically handicapped where exercise is not an option... ?

I was on anti-depressants for 20 years and could not get off of them. Would totally crash within a week. Finally, about 3 years ago, slowly weaned myself off of them for good.

.
 
Old 11-30-2014, 07:52 PM   #31
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
tonyfish58's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: Normanton Far North Queensland
Posts: 3,966
Quote:
Originally Posted by dale ramsdell View Post
Exercise definitely helps me, but I have to drag myself out first, and that is often difficult. When the knees are hurting, can't walk very far, however. Playing some pool actually helps, as it keeps my body moving and stretching this way and that.

But for physically handicapped where exercise is not an option... ?

I was on anti-depressants for 20 years and could not get off of them. Would totally crash within a week. Finally, about 3 years ago, slowly weaned myself off of them for good.

.
No easy answer Dale that is for sure as I lived with a Manic Depressant for 21 years. It is so debilitating but everything is worth a go! God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 12-01-2014, 04:27 AM   #32
Senior Member
 
BlinkeyBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Quilimari,Chile
Posts: 4,213
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfish58 View Post
No easy answer Dale that is for sure as I lived with a Manic Depressant for 21 years. It is so debilitating but everything is worth a go! God Bless and Regards Tony
Dear Tony bless your heart, I have tried everything, but no one who does not suffer with CFS understand, not even doctors sadly.

I have survived up until now because of the Baha'i writings, they are my strength and my medicine.

And dear gnat service yes this is a great medicine, why do you think I pioneered? It is all for Baha, but out of this service I receive benefit, as I told you concerning your tranlating.

But my physical health has not improved, and as I age, it gets worse, but that is life is it not? I wrote this thread for people to consider those who have mental health problems, to show more compassion and understanding, not for any personal reason, help etc.
 
Old 12-01-2014, 04:35 AM   #33
Senior Member
 
BlinkeyBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Quilimari,Chile
Posts: 4,213
Dear Tony posted the following site..........

Quote:
“O thou wonderful leaf of the Tree of the Love of God!…”
O thou wonderful leaf of the Tree of the Love of God!
All that thou hast written was perused. It was read from beginning to end, and it caused joy and fragrance. But we write a brief but useful answer, on account of the lack of leisure. Engage thou in commemorating God at every morn and turn unto the Horizon of Mercifulness.
Take some honey, recite “Ya Baha-ul-ABHA,” and eat a little thereof for several days. For these thy prevailing diseases are not on account of sins, but they are to make thee detest this world and know that there is no rest and composure in this temporal life.
I beg of God that thou mayest find a cheerful life, cause the increase of the longing of all present in the 186 meetings of the maid-servants of the Merciful One and bring joy and happiness to the handmaidens of God; so that thou mayest diffuse the fragrances and chant the manifest verses. Supplication to God at morn and eve is conducive to the joy of hearts, and prayer cause spirituality and fragrance. Thou shouldst necessarily continue therein.
I beg of God that the closed door may be opened before the face of the friends and that they may be enabled to visit the Holy Threshold.
Trust thou in the divine grace and have hope in the merciful gift. If thou wishest for everlasting joy and happiness, engage thou in delivering (teaching) the Cause of God night and day, for the commemoration of God attracts confirmation and assistance like unto a magnet.
Of a certainty teaching brings happiness, pioneering becomes a way of life, with no thought of any other.
And of a certainty ...........

Quote:
prevailing diseases are not on account of sins, but they are to make thee detest this world and know that there is no rest and composure in this temporal life.
The very reason I long for the next life.

Perhaps I should try "Take some honey, recite “Ya Baha-ul-ABHA,” and eat a little thereof for several days. " It certainly could do me no harm.
 
Old 12-01-2014, 07:25 AM   #34
Senior Member
 
BlinkeyBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Quilimari,Chile
Posts: 4,213
I feel I have to repeat here..

I wrote this thread for people to consider those who have mental health problems, to show more compassion and understanding, not for any personal reason, help etc.
 
Old 12-01-2014, 07:38 AM   #35
Senior Member
 
BlinkeyBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Quilimari,Chile
Posts: 4,213
‘Roy‘, another early pilgrim, described what he saw: ‘Friday mornings at seven there is another picture. Near the tent in the garden one may see an assemblage of the abject poor—the lame, the halt and the blind—seldom less than a hundred. As ‘Abdu’l-Bahá passes among them He will be seen to give to each a small coin, and to add a word of sympathy or cheer; often an inquiry about those at home; frequently He sends a share to an absent one. It is a sorry procession as they file slowly away, but they all look forward to this weekly visit, and indeed it is said that this is the chief means of sustenance for some of them. Almost any morning, early, He may be seen making the round of the city, calling upon the feeble and the sick; many dingy abodes are brightened by His presence.’
(Honnold, Annamarie, Vignettes from the Life of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 81)

The Master’s life was very full at this time. Not only did He care for the friends of Abu-Sinan, but in ‘Akká and Haifa all the poor looked to Him for their daily bread. Even before the war the spectre of starvation had not been very far from many of these pitiful people, but now when all the breadwinners (Germans and Turks) had been taken for the army, the plight of the women and children was desperate, for alas! there were no government “separation allowances.” Nothing and no one but the Master stood between them and certain death from hunger. He also instituted a dispensary at Ab‘u-Sin’an, and engaged a doctor, Hab‘ib‘u’ll‘ah Khud‘abkhsh. This doctor was qualified to perform operations and to give instruction in hygiene. ‘Abdu’l-Bahá did not neglect the education of the children. He arranged schools where they were taught by some of the most gifted of the Bahá’í friends.
(Lady Blomfield, The Chosen Highway)
 
Old 12-01-2014, 07:43 AM   #36
Senior Member
 
BlinkeyBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Quilimari,Chile
Posts: 4,213
His kind heart went out to those who were ill. If He could alleviate a pain or discomfort, He set about to do so. We are told that one old couple who were ill in bed for a month had twenty visits from the Master during that time. In ‘Akka, He daily sent a servant to inquire about the welfare of the ill, and as there was no hospital in the town, He paid a doctor a regular salary to look after the poor. The doctor was instructed not to tell Who provided this service. When a poor and crippled woman was shunned on contracting measles, the Master, on being informed, ‘immediately engaged a woman to care for her; took a room, put comfortable bedding (His own) into it, called the doctor, sent food and everything she needed. He went to see that she had every attention, and when she died in peace and comfort, He it was Who arranged her simple funeral, paying all charges.’
(Honnold, Annamarie, Vignettes from the Life of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 43)

Lua Gestinger, one of the early Bahá’ís of America, tells of an experience she had in Akká. She had made the pilgrimage to the prison-city to see ‘Abdu’l-Bahá. One day He said to her that He was too busy today to call upon a friend of His who was very poor and sick. He wished Lua to go in His place. He told her to take food to the sick man and care for him as He had been doing.
Lua learned the address and immediately went to do as ‘Abdu’l-Bahá had asked. She felt proud that ‘Abdu’l-Bahá had trusted her with some of His own work. But soon she returned to ‘Abdu’l-Bahá in a state of excitement. “Master,” she exclaimed, “You sent me to a very terrible place! I almost fainted from the awful smell, the dirty rooms, the degrading condition of that man and his house. I left quickly before I could catch some terrible disease.” Sadly and sternly, ‘Abdu’l-Bahá gazed at her. If she wanted to serve God, He told her, she would have to serve her fellow man, because in every person she should see the image and likeness of God. Then He told her to go back to the man’s house. If the house was dirty, she should clean it. If the man was dirty, she should bathe him. If he was hungry, she should feed him. He asked her not to come back until all of this was done. ‘Abdu’l-Bahá has done these things many times for this man, and he told Lua Getsinger that she should be able to do them once. This is how ‘Abdu’l-Bahá taught Lua to serve her fellow man.
(Howard Colby Ives, Portals to Freedom, Chapter 6)
 
Old 12-01-2014, 07:46 AM   #37
Senior Member
 
BlinkeyBill's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2011
From: Quilimari,Chile
Posts: 4,213
On pilgrimage May Maxwell came to realize that every word and every act of the Master’s had meaning and purpose. The pilgrim party was invited to meet ‘Abdu’l-Bahá under the cedar trees on Mount Carmel where He had been in the habit of sitting with Bahá’u’lláh. She recalled that ‘on Sunday morning we awakened with the joy and hope of the meeting on Mount Carmel. The Master arrived quite early and after looking at me, touching my head and counting my pulse, still holding my hand He said to the believers present: “There will be no meeting on Mount Carmel to-day...we could not go and leave one of the beloved of God alone and sick. We could none of us be happy unless all the beloved were happy.” We were astonished. That anything so important as this meeting in that blessed spot should be cancelled because one person was ill and could not go seemed incredible. It was so contrary to all ordinary habits of thought and action, so different from the life of the world where daily events and material circumstances are supreme in importance that it gave us a genuine shock of surprise, and in that shock the foundations of the old order began to totter and fall. The Master’s words had opened wide the door of God’s Kingdom and given us a vision of that infinite world whose only law is love. This was but one of many times that we saw ‘Abdu’l-Bahá place above every other consideration the love and kindness, the sympathy and compassion due to every soul. Indeed, as we look back upon that blessed time spent in His presence we understand that the object of our pilgrimage was to learn for the first time on earth what love is, to witness its light in every face, to feel its burning heat in every heart and to become ourselves enkindled with this divine flame from the Sun of Truth, the Essence of whose being is love.’
(Honnold, Annamarie, Vignettes from the Life of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 87)
 
Old 12-02-2014, 03:51 AM   #38
Minor Bloodsucker
 
gnat's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2014
From: Stockholm
Posts: 1,600
Dear friends,

I didn't know there was so much suffering from so-called mental illnesses here. My belief is that much of that actually are the visible results of the suffering one goes through when trying to the best of one's knowledge to be a Bahá'í, surrounded by people who don't understand what's going on, interpreting one's every action in terms related to material gains and selfish interests.

gnat
 
Old 12-02-2014, 12:29 PM   #39
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
tonyfish58's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: Normanton Far North Queensland
Posts: 3,966
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
Dear friends,

I didn't know there was so much suffering from so-called mental illnesses here. My belief is that much of that actually are the visible results of the suffering one goes through when trying to the best of one's knowledge to be a Bahá'í, surrounded by people who don't understand what's going on, interpreting one's every action in terms related to material gains and selfish interests.

gnat
Dear Gnat - Dear friend it is much much more than that in a lot of cases. It is not as easy as you say. God bless and regards Tony
 
Old 12-02-2014, 12:43 PM   #40
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2013
From: forest falls california
Posts: 1,773
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
Dear friends,

I didn't know there was so much suffering from so-called mental illnesses here. My belief is that much of that actually are the visible results of the suffering one goes through when trying to the best of one's knowledge to be a Bahá'í, surrounded by people who don't understand what's going on, interpreting one's every action in terms related to material gains and selfish interests.

gnat

gnat,
. There is no doubt truth in what you say, for people can indeed be stressed by the isolation created when swimming up river in the midst of a society hell bent on going downstream. I think that as Baha'is, we are faced with tests that many others do not always face.

. Nevertheless, depression and other problems are very real and exist in the Baha'i population as much as elsewhere. We have, however, an alternative to the purely materialistic understanding of medicine, recognizing it in its place, but also reliance upon spirituality and prayer.

. "Resort ye, in times of sickness, to competent physicians; We have not set aside the use of material means, rather have We confirmed it through this Pen, which God hath made to be the Dawning-place of His shining and glorious Cause."

(Bahá'u'lláh, The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, p. 60)

. "Do not neglect medical treatment when it is necessary, but leave it off when health has been restored.... Treat disease through diet, by preference, refraining from the use of drugs; and if you find what is required in a single herb, do not resort to a compounded medicament. Abstain from drugs when the health is good, but administer them when necessary."

(Bahá'u'lláh, cited in J. E. Esslemont, "Bahá'u'lláh and the New Era", 5th rev. ed. (Wilmette: Bahá'í Publishing Trust, 1987), p. 106)


. "There are two ways of healing sickness, material means and spiritual means. The first is by the treatment of physicians; the second consisteth in prayers offered by the spiritual ones to God and in turning to Him. Both means should be used and practised.

Illnesses which occur by reason of physical causes should be treated by doctors with medical remedies; those which are due to spiritual causes disappear through spiritual means. Thus an illness caused by affliction, fear, nervous impressions, will be healed more effectively by spiritual rather than by physical treatment. Hence, both kinds of treatment should be followed; they are not contradictory. Therefore thou shouldst also accept physical remedies inasmuch as these too have come from the mercy and favour of God, Who hath revealed and made manifest medical science so that His servants may profit from this kind of treatment also. Thou shouldst give equal attention to spiritual treatments, for they produce marvellous effects.

Now, if thou wishest to know the true remedy which will heal man from all sickness and will give him the health of the divine kingdom, know that it is the precepts and teachings of God. Focus thine attention upon them."

("Selections from the Writings of 'Abdu'l-Bahá", sec 133, pp. 151-52)


from the link: Health, Healing, and Nutrition

.
 
Reply

  Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Social Practices

Tags
bridging, gap, illness, mental, religion



Thread Tools
Display Modes



Facebook @bahaiforums RSS


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2006 - 2017 Bahai Forums. All rights reserved.