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Old 06-02-2015, 07:59 AM   #1
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question about marriage

how do two people get baha'i marriage/wedding if they were already married in court and already have marriage certificate? they want to do the baha'i wedding and ceremony even though they were already married in court many years ago for whatever reason. i understand that baha'i marriage require you to sign the baha'i marriage certificate, is this baha'i marriage certificate will be sent to the government Marriage License place in order to get the certificate or only the civil licence is sent back to obtain the marriage certificate and who gets to keep the baha'i marriage certificate?

both people are baha'i and since they are already married, the only thing left to do is ceremony and sign the baha'i marriage certificate, are they still allow to do the marriage without any issue?

thank you
 
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Old 06-02-2015, 07:33 PM   #2
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This previous Forum discussion may be helpful to you.

http://bahaiforums.com/social-practi...-marriage.html
 
Old 06-03-2015, 11:57 AM   #3
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An early UHJ ruling is still applicable, so far as I know:

"New believers who are already married . . . are not required to have a Bahá'í ceremony. They are already married in the sight of the Bahá'í community. There is no objection to such a couple having friends in for readings about marriage and/or prayers for their marriage."

(Letter from the Universal House of Justice, dated December 12, 1965, to a National Spiritual Assembly)

and

"... In all these cases, because the union is accepted by the Faith there is no question of a couple's having a Bahá'í wedding ceremony subsequently because, as the Guardian says, "Bahá'í marriage is something you perform when you are going to be united for the first time, not long after the union takes place." If, however, such a couple would like to have a meeting of their friends at which Bahá'í prayers and readings are said on behalf of their marriage now that they are Bahá'ís, there is no objection to their doing so, although it must be understood that this does not constitute a Bahá'í marriage ceremony."

Letter from the Universal House of Justice, dated June 23, 1969, to a National Spiritual Assembly
 
Old 06-03-2015, 02:19 PM   #4
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lets say they are both bahai when they did the court marriage, but they want to do the bahai marriage/ceremony as well, so what will happen in their case? will they loose their rights rights because they did the marriage without doing the bahai marriage? if they do loose their rights, what kind of rights do they loose? are they still able to attend all the other events such as feast, Devotions etc? are they ever able to get their rights back again or is it lifetime ban on those rights?

thanks
 
Old 06-05-2015, 02:15 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bahaifaithlove View Post
lets say they are both bahai when they did the court marriage, but they want to do the bahai marriage/ceremony as well, so what will happen in their case? will they loose their rights rights because they did the marriage without doing the bahai marriage? if they do loose their rights, what kind of rights do they loose? are they still able to attend all the other events such as feast, Devotions etc? are they ever able to get their rights back again or is it lifetime ban on those rights?

thanks
others here are more learned than i am, but in the meanwhile...based on my decades of assembly time, these are my best offerings:

if you knowingly violated the baha'i marriage law, then you could be subject to removal of your administrative rights. having a baha'i wedding now would prevent this. (permission from all living natural parents will be required, with certain limited exceptions.) this would involve no civil (secular legal) paperwork, as you are already legally married.

if the assembly (where you reside) concludes that you were truly unaware of the law when you married, then a baha'i wedding would not be necessary.



216. Summary of the Extent of Deprivation of Voting Rights

"…One who has lost his voting rights is considered to be a Bahá’í but not one in good standing. The following restrictions and limitations apply to such a believer:

He cannot attend Nineteen Day Feasts or other meetings for Bahá’ís only, including International Conferences, and therefore cannot take part in consultation on the affairs of the community.

He cannot contribute to the Bahá’í Fund.

He cannot receive newsletters and other bulletins whose circulation is restricted to Bahá’ís.

He cannot have a Bahá’í marriage ceremony and therefore is not able to marry a Bahá’í.

He may not have a Bahá’í pilgrimage.

Although he is free to teach the Faith on his own behalf, he should not be used as a teacher or speaker in programs sponsored by Bahá’ís.

He is debarred from participating in administrative matters, including the right to vote in Bahá’í elections.

He cannot hold office or be appointed to a committee.

He should not be given credentials (which imply that he is a Bahá’í in good standing)."
(From an attachment to a letter written on behalf of the Universal House of Justice to the National Spiritual Assembly of the Netherlands, December 9, 1985)



217. Summary of the Rights and Privileges not Deprived

"…Although generally speaking a believer deprived of his voting rights is not restricted except as stated above, the following privileges have been expressly stipulated as not denied:

He may attend the observances of the nine Holy Days.

He may attend any Bahá’í function open to non-Bahá’ís.

He may receive any publication available to non-Bahá’ís.

He is free to teach the Faith as every individual believer has been enjoined by Bahá’u’lláh to teach.

Association with other believers is not forbidden.

He may have the Bahá’í burial service if he or his family requests it, and he may be buried in a Bahá’í cemetery.

Bahá’í charity should not be denied him on the ground that he has lost his voting rights.

Bahá’í institutions may employ him, but should use discretion as to the type of work he is to perform.

He should have access to the Spiritual Assembly."
(Ibid.)
 
Old 06-05-2015, 02:15 PM   #6
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thank you randalljazz, yes these two people were young and weren't aware of the bahai law, even though they are now very religious and parents from both side are happy for them and want them to get marry in every proper way including the bahai ceremony. they must have the ceremony because they would feel their marriage wont be recognized by bahai law.

am bit confuse on these two quotes if you broke the law, you have said:

"He cannot have a Bahá’í marriage ceremony and therefore is not able to marry a Bahá’í"

"having a baha'i wedding now would prevent this. (permission from all living natural parents will be required, with certain limited exceptions.) this would involve no civil (secular legal) paperwork, as you are already legally married."


so you have said that you cannot have a bahai marriage but at the same time you have said you can have the bahai marriage. sorry about asking so many questions.
 
Old 06-06-2015, 01:39 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bahaifaithlove View Post
thank you randalljazz, yes these two people were young and weren't aware of the bahai law, even though they are now very religious and parents from both side are happy for them and want them to get marry in every proper way including the bahai ceremony. they must have the ceremony because they would feel their marriage wont be recognized by bahai law.

am bit confuse on these two quotes if you broke the law, you have said:

"He cannot have a Bahá’í marriage ceremony and therefore is not able to marry a Bahá’í"

"having a baha'i wedding now would prevent this. (permission from all living natural parents will be required, with certain limited exceptions.) this would involve no civil (secular legal) paperwork, as you are already legally married."


so you have said that you cannot have a bahai marriage but at the same time you have said you can have the bahai marriage. sorry about asking so many questions.
when one's rights have been removed, one cannot have a baha'i wedding, except in the case of correcting the prior violation of baha'i law which was the cause of the removal of rights.

the requirements of case you raise is not up to the feelings of the parents:

"At the present stage in the development of the Bahá’í Community, Bahá’ís who failed to have a Bahá’í marriage through ignorance of the law are in a different category altogether from those who wittingly broke the law. The latter must have a Bahá’í ceremony in order to regain their voting rights; but the former should be treated in the same manner as those Bahá’ís who married before they entered the Faith and those Bahá’ís who married without a Bahá’í ceremony before the law was applied: they should be considered married and not be required to have a Bahá’í ceremony."
(From a letter of the Universal House of Justice to the National Spiritual Assembly of the United States, January 20, 1966)

and refer to sen mcglinn's post above.

for further study:

marriage laws
 
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