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Old 07-31-2014, 10:07 AM   #201
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Sorry my friend. I just get a little riled up when people have repeatedly tried to fit my disability into their worldview by giving it a "purpose." Like Rhythmcs said when talking about his humanity and how he got annoyed by people saying, "Well, it came from God whether you know that or not."
 
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Old 07-31-2014, 12:20 PM   #202
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Originally Posted by SmilingSkeptic View Post
Sorry my friend. I just get a little riled up when people have repeatedly tried to fit my disability into their worldview by giving it a "purpose." Like Rhythmcs said when talking about his humanity and how he got annoyed by people saying, "Well, it came from God whether you know that or not."
I understand what you say.
But you and Rhythmcs have to allow others the same moving room so to speak as you also wish of others.
We all have our own beliefs and triggers, I sometimes get a little impatient, by things that you both say also, we all have to try and be polite here in the forum, and I find that you mostly have. I am a little disappointed in our friend Rythmcs though as he apparently came into the forum with the idea of only pointing out things that are to him not true. I have found a couple of places where I feel his bias has shown, but otherwise am happy to read your posts.
 
Old 08-01-2014, 09:41 AM   #203
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Dear SmilingSceptic

I am sure you could be starting many interesting threads concerning matters that interest you and would be interesting to the Forum members.

Such as World peace.

Justice for Disabled people, re work etc.

Why not work with us Baha'is in matters of justice for all there are many issues, that I feel would interest you, instead of discussing each others beliefs that only appear to irritate you. Do you feel this is a good idea or not?
 
Old 08-01-2014, 08:48 PM   #204
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I don't generally get riled up by discussing differences in beliefs in general, and I apologize if I (I cannot speak for Rhythmcs) have caused you to be annoyed by anything I have said. In most cases I've tried to express my opinion while also respecting that you believe differently. However, for me, my experience with my disability has a lot of emotions wrapped up around it so I have occasionally sounded snappish without meaning it (it's often also difficult to convey true emotions over the Internet).

My general intent in discussing differences in beliefs (and I have discussed other things besides that from time to time) here is not to try and belittle but to allow for you to see my perspective and that of atheists so as to clear up any misconceptions, as I also try to learn more about your opinions and beliefs which closely mirror those of the woman I love with all my heart.
 
Old 08-05-2014, 07:30 AM   #205
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Of course my bias shows (it would be difficult to express ones opinion without expressing ones bias). I actually had to take a break from these forums. I came with an unrealistic and naively positive view of the baha'i faith which was summarily wrecked by interaction with baha'is. I've adjusted my expectations, so I ought to be able to leverage a different approach. You might get a giggle out of this, but I actually didn't expect to find any of those things "I think are wrong" (which is being unkind - I've never failed to give lengthy objective reasons for why I find something "wrong") here. I had an entirely skewed view of the baha'i faith - which is why interaction is so crucial in the first place. Now, when somebody asks me "what about baha'ism" I'm not operating on flattering, but ultimately false assumptions.

(and no, I don't have to allow anyone any "moving room" inside of my own head and motivations - I did allow for every other human being on earth to be under the spell - provided that it was accepted that I am not. That's not an unreasonable or impolite request. I find the implications that are levied at me and about my motivations to be incredibly ironic in this regard. That's something that I'm just going to have to learn to live with, the same as I have learned to overcome the christian persecution complex in order to have productive conversations with them.)

Last edited by Rhythmcs; 08-05-2014 at 08:26 AM.
 
Old 08-06-2014, 08:01 PM   #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhythmcs View Post
Of course my bias shows (it would be difficult to express ones opinion without expressing ones bias). I actually had to take a break from these forums. I came with an unrealistic and naively positive view of the baha'i faith which was summarily wrecked by interaction with baha'is. I've adjusted my expectations, so I ought to be able to leverage a different approach. You might get a giggle out of this, but I actually didn't expect to find any of those things "I think are wrong" (which is being unkind - I've never failed to give lengthy objective reasons for why I find something "wrong") here. I had an entirely skewed view of the baha'i faith - which is why interaction is so crucial in the first place. Now, when somebody asks me "what about baha'ism" I'm not operating on flattering, but ultimately false assumptions.

(and no, I don't have to allow anyone any "moving room" inside of my own head and motivations - I did allow for every other human being on earth to be under the spell - provided that it was accepted that I am not. That's not an unreasonable or impolite request. I find the implications that are levied at me and about my motivations to be incredibly ironic in this regard. That's something that I'm just going to have to learn to live with, the same as I have learned to overcome the christian persecution complex in order to have productive conversations with them.)
I'm not quite sure what the idea of "moving room" meant for many of the Baha'is on this forum anyway...
 
Old 08-13-2014, 12:13 PM   #207
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Originally Posted by h123 View Post
Ok, here is the Deal. There is a hypothetical Baha'i guy and he has a question:

"I know it's bad and we are not supposed to do this, but me and me girlfriend, well, we've been together for a long time now, and we've been having sex and stuff. In the last year we've had sex on average twice a week, that's like 100 times. So how much gold do I owe the Universal House of Justice? Either now or when the Baha'i kingdom is established and this law is put into practice.

With Loving Baha'i Greetings
A concerned Baha'i
"

So according to the decree of Baha'u'llah how much gold does this Baha'i guy own the UHJ?
The real question is what is the punishment for adultery in Islam? Like much of the Aqdas and the Bayan before it, and truth be told, the Aqdas is but the completion of the Bayan, the purpose is to end Sharia.

Additionally, if you read the passage in question from the Aqdas, three things stand out. First, its a more lenient punishment than previous religious law especially sharia. Second, it clearly implies that those committing such acts can ask for forgiveness and are granted it. Third, there is a hidden implication that fornication is almost an act of marriage.

Taken together, and the fact that implementation of Bahai law is clearly not immediate and up to the UHJ, the passage with its geometric punishments was clearly never meant to be implemented literally. Its purpose was to further validate the importance of monogamy in marriage while also getting rid of harsh punishments on adulterers that have been and continue to be customs in a lot of the non western world.

Early christians, Jews, and Muslims, ie the eastern world had extremely harsh punishments for fornication. Clearly, the point was to end these punishments. Meanwhile Western modernists had extremely lax moral feelings toward fornication and adultery. The point was to show or convey how important monogamy was to the western modernists.

Just look at the news today. In the west, we and truth be told im as guilty of it as anyone, live in a world filled with sexual pleasure, meanwhile ISIS and many parts of the middle east are continuing to kill adulterers.

The entire teachings of the Faith, and the laws, almost function as a rebuke of western individualistic materialism and eastern superstitious religious intolerance.
 
Old 08-14-2014, 07:42 AM   #208
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Originally Posted by lostdervish View Post
The real question is what is the punishment for adultery in Islam? Like much of the Aqdas and the Bayan before it, and truth be told, the Aqdas is but the completion of the Bayan, the purpose is to end Sharia.
Very well said

The day of pointing fingers at other religions, has come to an end, for after all all religions are one.

Say ye: "We believe in God, and that which hath been sent down to us, and that which hath been sent down to Abraham and Ismael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes: and that which hath been given to Moses and to Jesus, and that which was given to the prophets from their Lord. No difference do we make between any of them: and to God are we resigned (Muslims). "
(Surih II, "The Cow", v. 130) [2:130]
 
Old 08-14-2014, 07:57 AM   #209
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the old secular wisdom of Johnny Taylor from back in 73
"It's cheaper to keep her"
 
Old 08-14-2014, 10:51 PM   #210
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Interpretation

Quote:
Originally Posted by lostdervish View Post

Taken together, and the fact that implementation of Bahai law is clearly not immediate and up to the UHJ, the passage with its geometric punishments was clearly never meant to be implemented literally
Huh??

Engaged in interpretation???

You might want to express such as your opinion merely...

What is even more compelling is the humiliating torment in the world to come. I wouldn't want to dumb that down either...

, "49
God hath imposed a fine on every adulterer and adulteress, to be paid to the House of Justice: nine mithqáls of gold, to be doubled if they should repeat the offence. Such is the penalty which He Who is the Lord of Names hath assigned them in this world; and in the world to come He hath ordained for them a humiliating torment. Should anyone be afflicted by a sin, it behoveth him to repent thereof and return unto his Lord. He, verily, granteth forgiveness unto whomsoever He willeth, and none may question that which it pleaseth Him to ordain. He is, in truth, the Ever-Forgiving, the Almighty, the All-Praised." Kitab-i-Aqdas

.
 
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