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Old 09-16-2015, 07:07 AM   #1
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Do we have to make an effort and strive?

How would you reconcile these two quotes:

"The flame of the fire of love, in this world of earth and water, comes through the power of attraction and not by effort and striving. "

Abdulbaha (Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 129-131)

And:

"Whensoever he hath fulfilled the conditions implied in the verse: “Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.”"

Book of Certitude - Baha'u'llah (Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 264-270)
 
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Old 09-16-2015, 08:51 AM   #2
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This is how I see things. Initially it seems like we are putting forth effort, then later it is seen that God did it all for us:

" “A servant is drawn unto Me in prayer until I answer him; and when I have answered him, I become the ear wherewith he heareth….” For thus the Master of the house hath appeared within His home, and all the pillars of the dwelling are ashine with His light. And the action and effect of the light are from the Light-Giver; so it is that all move through Him and arise by His will. And this is that spring whereof the near ones drink, as it is said: “A fount whereof the near unto God shall drink….” " - Baha'u'llah, Seven Valleys
 
Old 09-16-2015, 09:30 PM   #3
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Quote:
Do we have to make an effort and strive?
"For a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue, there is no need for an act of will, 'May freedom from remorse arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that freedom from remorse arises in a person endowed with virtue, consummate in virtue.

"For a person free from remorse, there is no need for an act of will, 'May joy arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that joy arises in a person free from remorse.

"For a joyful person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May rapture arise in me.' It is in the nature of things that rapture arises in a joyful person.

"For a rapturous person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my body be serene.' It is in the nature of things that a rapturous person grows serene in body.

"For a person serene in body, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I experience pleasure.' It is in the nature of things that a person serene in body experiences pleasure.

"For a person experiencing pleasure, there is no need for an act of will, 'May my mind grow concentrated.' It is in the nature of things that the mind of a person experiencing pleasure grows concentrated.

"For a person whose mind is concentrated, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I know & see things as they actually are.' It is in the nature of things that a person whose mind is concentrated knows & sees things as they actually are.

"For a person who knows & sees things as they actually are, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I feel disenchantment.' It is in the nature of things that a person who knows & sees things as they actually are feels disenchantment.

"For a person who feels disenchantment, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I grow dispassionate.' It is in the nature of things that a person who feels disenchantment grows dispassionate.

"For a dispassionate person, there is no need for an act of will, 'May I realize the knowledge & vision of release.' It is in the nature of things that a dispassionate person realizes the knowledge & vision of release.

"In this way, dispassion has knowledge & vision of release as its purpose, knowledge & vision of release as its reward. Disenchantment has dispassion as its purpose, dispassion as its reward. Knowledge & vision of things as they actually are has disenchantment as its purpose, disenchantment as its reward. Concentration has knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its purpose, knowledge & vision of things as they actually are as its reward. Pleasure has concentration as its purpose, concentration as its reward. Serenity has pleasure as its purpose, pleasure as its reward. Rapture has serenity as its purpose, serenity as its reward. Joy has rapture as its purpose, rapture as its reward. Freedom from remorse has joy as its purpose, joy as its reward. Skillful virtues have freedom from remorse as their purpose, freedom from remorse as their reward.

"In this way, mental qualities lead on to mental qualities, mental qualities bring mental qualities to their consummation, for the sake of going from the near to the Further Shore."


Cetana Sutta: An Act of Will
 
Old 09-17-2015, 12:48 PM   #4
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I see this as the love for God comes without effort, but we must put forth the effort the share the love and God's truth. This would be so for me.

Loving regards,
Becky
 
Old 09-17-2015, 03:07 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InvestigateTruth View Post
How would you reconcile these two quotes:

"The flame of the fire of love, in this world of earth and water, comes through the power of attraction and not by effort and striving. "

Abdulbaha (Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 129-131)

And:

"Whensoever he hath fulfilled the conditions implied in the verse: “Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.”"

Book of Certitude - Baha'u'llah (Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 264-270)
For me, the first quote sounds a little like "justification by faith alone" as taught by Calvin et al
 
Old 09-17-2015, 05:42 PM   #6
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The way I see it there's a pre-ordained measure for all things. However, how much of that measure is quaffed is dependent upon one's effort and zeal; we are given the cup, whether one drinks his full measure or just a drop thereof is up to the recipient. Having said that as Matthew pointed out ultimately it is God's will that is the supreme animator, Who bestows His gifts to Whomsoever He pleases.

Finding the balance is the key. One can't just sit and wait for God's love to come around nor can one who is loved by God claim that he has earned it; all pride is God's.
 
Old 09-18-2015, 01:29 AM   #7
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that means (in my opinion) that God doesn't differentiate between people; He doesn't give His love to this person and deprive that other person of His love. the love of God is shining down upon all of us, without our strive, like the sun shines down everyday yet, in order to be able to profit from His light, in order to be able to fully reflect His light like a shining mirror, we have to strive to clean the mirror of our hearts and then to keep it clean so that we can be called spiritual creatures.

Last edited by maryamr; 09-18-2015 at 01:32 AM.
 
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