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Old 12-02-2015, 03:47 AM   #1
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Quran pointing towards Baha'i-Faith?

Hello friends,

maybe someone can help me about this...
The Bible points clearly towards someone to some after Jesus Christ...but the Quran does not show clear evidence, that there will be another messenger later on. I know that "the seal of the prophets" is exaggerated my the muslim clergy and that it could also mean "jewel of the prophets"...But which quotes from the quran point towards Baha'u'llah?
This issue doesn't matter much to me, but I'm teaching a Muslim friend who needs evidence from the Quran.
Thanks for ur help
 
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Old 12-02-2015, 09:21 AM   #2
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This book:

Baha'u'llah: The Great Announcement of the Qur'an
 
Old 12-02-2015, 09:47 AM   #3
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There are multiples passages that implicitely call to the Mahdi in the Quran. What you need is not verses from the Quran, but a deeper understanding of it.
 
Old 12-02-2015, 10:21 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by tina View Post
But which quotes from the quran point towards Baha'u'llah?
Short answer: None!

Bahia’s offer a number of verses in support of their case. This is the first: ‘Joseph came to you before with clear signs, but you never ceased to doubt the message he brought you. When he died, you said: “Allāh will not send another messenger.” In this way Allāh leaves the doubting rebels to stray…’ (Ghafir: 34).

Comment:

In this sura an unknown believer is addressing his contemporaries: ‘My people, I fear your fate will be the fate of those others who opposed (their prophets) the fate of the people of Noah, Ad, Thamud, and those who came after them - Allāh never wills injustice on His creatures. My people, I fear for you on the Day you will cry out to one another, the Day you will turn tail and flee with no one to defend you from Allāh! Whoever Allāh leaves to stray will have no one to guide him. Joseph came to you before with clear signs, but you never ceased to doubt the message he brought you. When he died, you said, “Allāh will not send another messenger.”’ (30-34).

These verses condemn the disobedience and complacency of those who came before Muhammad (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam); and who assumed - wrongly - that no messenger would follow their own. When the Muslims say that no prophet will come after Muhammad they are not making an assumption. They are acting on his own words: ‘O people, no prophet will come after me.’ (Final Sermon).

The second: ‘The Jews have said: “Allāh is tight-fisted,” but it is they who are tight-fisted, and they are rejected for what they have said. Truly, Allāh’s hands are open wide: He gives as He pleases. What has been sent down to you from your Lord is sure to increase insolence and defiance in many of them. We have sown enmity and hatred amongst them till the Day of Resurrection. Whenever they kindle the fire of war, Allāh will put it out. They try to spread corruption in the land, but Allāh does not love those who corrupt.’ (Al-Ma’ida: 64).

Comment:

The title of this Medinan sura (‘Al-Ma’ida’) is translated ‘The Feast’; and its central theme is the regulation of lawful and unlawful food. Believers are called upon to fulfil their obligations as a consequence of accepting the faith, including its dietary prohibitions.

The sura is also concerned with pledges given to Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) by the People of the Book; and how the Prophet should behave when these pledges are broken: ‘Messenger, do not be grieved by those who race to surpass one another in disbelief - those who say with their mouths: “We believe,” but have no faith in their hearts, and the Jews who listen eagerly to lies and to those who have not even met you, who distort the meanings of (revealed) words and say (to each other): “If you are given this ruling, accept it, but if you are not, then beware!” If Allāh intends some people to be so misguided, you will be powerless against Allāh on their behalf. These are the ones whose hearts Allāh does not intend to cleanse - a disgrace for them in this world, and then a heavy punishment in the Hereafter - they listen eagerly to lies and consume what is unlawful. If they come to you (Prophet) for judgement, you can either judge between them, or decline - if you decline, they will not harm you in any way, but if you do judge between them, judge justly: Allāh loves the just - but why do they come to you for judgement when they have the Torah with Allāh’s judgement, and even then still turn away? These are not believers.’ (41-43).

Nothing in this sura speaks of any messenger to come after Muhammad (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam).

The third: ‘We said: “Get out, all of you!” But when guidance comes from Me, as it certainly will, there will be no fear for those who follow My guidance nor will they grieve - those who disbelieve and deny Our messages shall be the inhabitants of the Fire, and there they will remain.’ (Al-Baqara: 38-39).

Comment:

These verses are set in the context of Adam and Eve’s expulsion from the Garden: ‘We said: “Adam, live with your wife in this garden. Both of you eat freely there as you will, but do not go near this tree, or you will both become wrongdoers.” But Satan made them slip, and removed them from the state they were in. We said: “Get out, all of you! You are each other’s enemy. On earth you will have a place to stay and livelihood for a time.” Then Adam received some words from his Lord and He accepted his repentance: He is the Ever Relenting, the Most Merciful.’ (35-37).

The guidance that Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) refers to is that provided by the prophets up to, and including Mohammed (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam). Those who follow that guidance will have nothing to fear. Those who refuse will find themselves in a spot of bother. The emphasis here is on the message and not the messenger.

The fourth: ‘So We have sent down the Qur’an to give judgement in the Arabic language. If you were to follow their desires, after the knowledge that has come to you, you would have no one to guard you or protect you from Allāh. We sent messengers before you and gave them wives and offspring; no messenger was given the power to produce a miracle except with Allāh’s permission. There was a Scripture for every age: Allāh erases or confirms whatever He will, and the source of Scripture is with Him.’ (Al-Ra‘d: 37-38).

Comment:

This sura makes clear that Muhammad (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam) is one of a long tradition of prophets. His role is to deliver the message, and nothing else. Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) is the one who calls people to account for their deeds, and He is the witness for the truth of the message.

The line ‘there was a Scripture for every age’ refers to the sacred books that came before the Qur’an. There is nothing in this sura that speaks of a prophet (or of a Book) to come after Muhammad.

The fifth: ‘Say (Prophet): “If the whole ocean were ink for writing the words of my Lord, it would run dry before those words were exhausted” - even if We were to add another ocean to it.”’ (Al-Kahf: verse 109).

Comment:

Someone whose life has just been saved by the selfless act of another will say: ‘Words cannot express how grateful I feel.’ It’s a figure of speech, and we all know what it means. Verse 109 is also a figure of speech; one that expresses the wonder and majesty of Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla). No amount of words can ever express what He is and what He knows.

The sixth: ‘Children of Adam, when messengers come to you from among yourselves, reciting My revelations to you, for those who are conscious of Allāh and live righteously, there will be no fear, nor will they grieve.’ (Al-A‘raf: Verse 35).

Comment:

This verse reminds us that all who obey the messengers of Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla), and who live righteously will have their reward. Again the emphasis is on the message not the messenger.

On the other hand there does seem to be an ambiguity in the words ‘when messengers come to you’, and this needs to be clarified.

The scholars have identified two types of text within the Qur’an: unequivocal (‘nass’) and apparent (‘dhahir’). The former does not give rise to any other possibility at all (for example, 'the girl is five' cannot mean ‘the boy is six or four’). The latter (‘dhahir’) is open to interpretation. It could be argued that the words ‘when messengers come to you’ are ‘dhahir’ and open to interpretation; that they hint at the possibility of a messenger after Muhammad (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam).

In his First Sermon Imam ʿAlī ibn Abī Ṭālib says: ‘In it (the Qur’an) there are some verses whose knowledge is obligatory and others whose ignorance by the people is permissible. It also contains what appears to be obligatory according to the Book but its repeal is signified by the Prophet’s action (Sunnah)…’

Comment:

Verses that are open to interpretation must be subject to the Sunnah. What does the Prophet have to say about them? Do the words ‘when messengers come to you’ allow us to say that Muhammad is not the last of the prophets? Let’s see what Imam ʿAlī has to say: ‘In this way ages passed by and times rolled on, fathers passed away while sons took their places till Allāh deputised Muhammad (peace be upon him and his progeny) as His Prophet, in fulfilment of His promise and in completion of His Prophethood.’ (First Sermon).

Comment:

The Iman makes a very interest statement: that Prophethood belongs to Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) alone. The messengers are simply the means by which Prophethood is expressed. The chain of messengers began with Adam (ʿalayhi as-salām) and, according to the Imam, was completed by Muhammad (sallallahu 'alayhi wa sallam).

From Sermon 72: ‘My God, the Spreader of the surfaces (of earth) and Keeper (intact) of all skies, Creator of hearts on good and evil nature, send Thy choicest blessings and growing favours on Muhammad Thy servant and Thy Prophet who is the last of those who preceded (him).’

And from Sermon 87: ‘O people learn this saying of the last of the Prophets: “He who dies from among us is not dead, and he who decays (after dying) from among us does not really decay”. Do not say what you do not understand, because most of the Right is in what you deny.’

Comment:

According to the Imam, Muhammad is ‘the last of those who preceded him’…‘the last of the Prophets’. There is no ambiguity here.

From Sermon 91: ‘Even when He made Adam die, He did not leave them without one who would serve among them as proof and plea for His Godhead, and serve as the link between them and His knowledge, but He provided to them the proofs through His chosen Messengers and bearers of the trust of His Message, age after age till the process came to end with our Prophet Muhammad - Allāh may bless him and his descendants - and His pleas and warnings reached finality.’

And from Sermon 133: ‘The Book of Allāh is among you. It speaks and its tongue does not falter. It is a house whose pillars do not fall down, and a power whose supporters are never routed. Allāh deputised the Prophet after a gap from the previous prophets when there was much talk (among the people). With him Allāh exhausted the series of prophets and ended the revelation.’

Comment:

The Imam confirms that the process of Prophethood - and the series of prophets - came to an end with Muhammad; and that the process of revelation was ended.

And from Sermon 234: ‘May my father and my mother shed their lives for you, O Messenger of Allāh! With your death the process of prophethood, revelation and heavenly messages has stopped, which had not stopped at the death of others (prophets).’

Comment:

This sermon was delivered when the Imam was busy at Muhammad’s funeral ablutions.

The Imam is in no doubt at all that Muhammad is the last of the prophets. He speaks with the conviction that comes from a lifetime at the Prophet’s side; and from hearing his words: ‘There will be no prophet after me!’ (Final Sermon of the Prophet).

Those who disagree with the Imam are entitled to do so. What they are not entitled to do is to say that he (and the rest of the Muslims) do not understand either their own Book or the teaching of their Prophet.

For the Muslims there is no need for any prophet after Muhammad. In the words of Imam ʿAlī
he has left among them: ‘the Book of your Creator clarifying its permission and prohibitions, its obligations and discretion, its repealing injunctions and the repealed ones, its permissible matters and compulsory ones, its particulars and the general ones, its lessons and illustrations, its long and the short ones, its clear and obscure ones, detailing its abbreviations and clarifying its obscurities.’

And, finally, from Sermon 110: ‘Go ahead with the remembrance of Allāh for it is the best remembrance, and long for that which He has promised to the pious, for His promise is the most true promise. Tread the course of the Prophet for it is the most distinguished course. Follow the Sunnah of the Prophet for it is the most right of all behaviours. Learn the Qur'an for it is the fairest of discourses and understand it thoroughly for it is the best blossoming of hearts. Seek cure with its light for it is the cure for hearts. Recite it beautifully for it is the most beautiful narration.’

These words are as relevant today as they were when first spoken. Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) knows best!

I accept, of course, that the Bahá'í hold to their beliefs with sincerity and conviction; confident they have good reason for so doing (as do all believers, no matter what the object of their belief - be it religious or secular). Over the years I have come to realise that debate of this sort, while it exercises the brain (a much needed process in a geriatric such as I) seldom changes opinion; especially when this opinion is deeply rooted. I am reminded of the words of Khayyám: ‘Myself when young did eagerly frequent Doctor and Saint and heard great argument about it and about: but evermore came out by that same door as in I went.’

Perhaps that is how it should be.

Have a great day now.

Paul.
 
Old 12-02-2015, 11:36 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niblo View Post
Short answer: None!

Paul.
with respect for your ideas Paul, I wonder how you have become a Muslim without witnessing the fulfillment of the signs in Bible! there are many and u know them better than me. if you have seen the fulfillment of the signs in Bible then it must have been a non physical fulfillment and I wonder how you cannot see the same about Islam and Baha'i!!

(no need to answer- you can think about it for yourself )
 
Old 12-02-2015, 01:42 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by maryamr View Post
with respect for your ideas Paul, I wonder how you have become a Muslim without witnessing the fulfillment of the signs in Bible! there are many and u know them better than me. if you have seen the fulfillment of the signs in Bible then it must have been a non physical fulfillment and I wonder how you cannot see the same about Islam and Baha'i!!

(no need to answer- you can think about it for yourself )
Hello. To the best of my knowledge, most Muslims believe that, the Bible originally had clear verses that spoke about coming of Muhammad, but the Jews and Christians removed or corrupted these clear verses from their Book.

In their view, It is essensially for that reason, that Quran was revealed, which is without any corruption. Hence no need for any farther revelation. All other Books of God prior to Quran got corrupted and finally the only uncorrupted Book of God, Quran, was revealed.
Baha'u'llah in Book of certitude, with logical reasoning proves that, the Text of Bible was not corrupted the way Muslims think.
 
Old 12-02-2015, 09:36 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by InvestigateTruth View Post
Hello. To the best of my knowledge, most Muslims believe that, the Bible originally had clear verses that spoke about coming of Muhammad, but the Jews and Christians removed or corrupted these clear verses from their Book.

In their view, It is essensially for that reason, that Quran was revealed, which is without any corruption. Hence no need for any farther revelation. All other Books of God prior to Quran got corrupted and finally the only uncorrupted Book of God, Quran, was revealed.
Baha'u'llah in Book of certitude, with logical reasoning proves that, the Text of Bible was not corrupted the way Muslims think.

even if Bible had quoted the name of Mohammad directly and clearly, yet there are still many signs which are not fulfilled outwardly. Imagine that Bible has said something as clear as this: "Mohammad, who will be born in Arabia, will be the next Prophet after Jesus" BUT there are some signs to indicate if the Mohammad is the true Mohammad or not; some signs like "hearing a very loud voice from skies which can be heard from east to west" or "The Lord appears at Mount Olivet leading his people to victory (Ezekiel 38, 39, Daniel 11, 12, Joel 2,3)" and these signs MUST be fulfilled BEFORE any prophet can come to earth again After Jesus Christ.
it is just not wise to come here and talk about outwardly unfulfilled signs mentioned in Quran when such a thing has not happened about bible as well.
yet, everyone must be free to chose whatever he likes and he thinks is correct and the same way every person must be free to talk about his ideas.
 
Old 12-03-2015, 04:05 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryamr View Post
with respect for your ideas Paul, I wonder how you have become a Muslim without witnessing the fulfillment of the signs in Bible! there are many and u know them better than me. if you have seen the fulfillment of the signs in Bible then it must have been a non physical fulfillment and I wonder how you cannot see the same about Islam and Baha'i!!

(no need to answer- you can think about it for yourself )
Hello Maryamr.

I became a Muslim (in May of this year) after studying the Qur'an, and the works of Islamic scholars, for about twelve years. I was a Christian for over sixty years.

As for 'my ideas': They are the teachings of the Muslims based on the words of Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) as contained in the Noble Qur'an. I make no apology for this. If you believe that my interpretation of these teachings, and of the Beloved's words, is incorrect then please reveal my error(s).....supported by appropriate references. This is the Islamic way.

Even at my age I am open to correction!

Have a great day, and very best regards,

Paul
 
Old 12-03-2015, 06:19 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Niblo View Post
Hello Maryamr.

I became a Muslim (in May of this year) after studying the Qur'an, and the works of Islamic scholars, for about twelve years. I was a Christian for over sixty years.

As for 'my ideas': They are the teachings of the Muslims based on the words of Allāh (Subḥānahu ūta'āla) as contained in the Noble Qur'an. I make no apology for this. If you believe that my interpretation of these teachings, and of the Beloved's words, is incorrect then please reveal my error(s).....supported by appropriate references. This is the Islamic way.

Even at my age I am open to correction!

Have a great day, and very best regards,

Paul
HI Paul, dear friend
first : who am I to want to correct you? all my worry must be focused on the matter that I myself will never lost my way after I have found it. in fact if any person looks at her own deeds, there will be no more time to look at those of others
second: I guess if the teachings of Muslim scholars (in general) was that good and that true, then Muslim societies would have a better condition. I am not saying that Muslims because of their religion must not do anything wrong. some Baha'is do wrong things as well, but what I said, I said as a general point; you can see how corruption as a disease has taken the body of Islamic countries.
third: I am sure that you already know what signs I am talking about. you are having this discussion now in another thread as well so I can follow you there. just one thing I should say and that is I don't want to change your idea, I was only interested to know. if you have accepted Islam with your heart and good amount of research them who am I to say you are not better than me or anyone else?
 
Old 12-04-2015, 04:20 AM   #10
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who am I to say you are not better than me?
Hello Maryamr,

Let’s be quite clear about this….I AM NOT BETTER THAN YOU (apart from the fact that I’m Welsh….a male….and soooo very much older - and therefore wiser - of course!! ).

Have a great weekend, and very best regards.

Paul
 
Old 12-04-2015, 05:05 AM   #11
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Hello Maryamr,

Let’s be quite clear about this….I AM NOT BETTER THAN YOU (apart from the fact that I’m Welsh….a male….and soooo very much older - and therefore wiser - of course!! ).

Have a great weekend, and very best regards.

Paul
Do I need to say more than this: ?

"As soon as one feels a little better than, a little superior to, the rest, he is in a dangerous position, and unless he casts away the seed of such an evil thought, he is not a fit instrument for the service of the Kingdom."

'Abdu'l-Bahá

And on that note it's possible to live in peace with each other.

gnat

Last edited by gnat; 12-04-2015 at 06:08 AM.
 
Old 12-04-2015, 06:08 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
Do I need to say more than this: ?

"As soon as one feels a little better than, a little superior to, the rest, he is in a dangerous position, and unless he casts away the seed of such an evil thought, he is not a fit instrument for the service of the Kingdom."

'Abdu'l-Bahá

gnat
Hi gnat.

You could say that you've seen my rolling eyes....and acknowledge that my comments re being Welsh etc are a tease. Otherwise......exactly!

Have a great weekend, and very best regards.

Paul
 
Old 12-04-2015, 06:16 AM   #13
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Hi gnat.

You could say that you've seen my rolling eyes....and acknowledge that my comments re being Welsh etc are a tease. Otherwise......exactly!

Have a great weekend, and very best regards.

Paul
I can take your being a Muslim any day, but Welsh.....

How could God allow a people to invent words like Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysilio gogogoch?

The longest officially listed Swedish word, Realisationsvinstbeskattning, only contains 28 letters

gnat

Last edited by gnat; 12-04-2015 at 06:21 AM.
 
Old 12-04-2015, 06:31 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
I can take your being a Muslim any day, but Welsh.....

How could God allow a people to invent words like Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysilio gogogoch?

The longest officially listed Swedish word, Realisationsvinstbeskattning, only contains 28 letters

gnat
LOL. It's because God is Welsh
 
Old 12-04-2015, 01:17 PM   #15
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LOL. It's because God is Welsh
I was raised to believe He's an Irish Catholic until a girlfriend told me Gods a black female Muslim. Know what..... I think everybody is right
 
Old 12-11-2015, 01:34 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by aidan View Post
I was raised to believe He's an Irish Catholic until a girlfriend told me Gods a black female Muslim. Know what..... I think everybody is right
Nah....He's Welsh alright. Proof......all the best hymns are Welsh
 
Old 05-29-2016, 09:42 PM   #17
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It was the Bab who claimed to be the Promised One of the Quran, the Twelfth Imam, and the Qa'im. Of the three maternal uncles of the Bab, the eldest uncle, named Haji Mirza Siyyid Muhammad, although aware of the outstanding qualities of his Nephew, or the Bab, he was nonetheless unconvinced that his Nephew could be the Promised One of Islam, as the Bab Himself had claimed to be.

This uncle of the Bab entertained his doubts until he attained the presence of Baha'u'llah in Baghdad. This meeting occurred two years before Baha'u'llah made His own declaration.

Anyway, it was at this meeting that the Bab's uncle asked Baha'u'llah to prove to him that his Nephew, or the Bab, was in fact the Promised One, the Twelfth Imam and the Qa'im of the Quran. Within a span of two days and two nights, Baha'u'llah reveled the Book of Certitude in response to the question of the Bab's uncle. This book dispelled all doubts entertained by Haji Mirza Siyyid Muhammad and it may help dispel your friend's doubts too.
 
Old 05-30-2016, 12:01 PM   #18
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The Qur'an doesn't talk about an Apostle after Prophet Muhammad persay, but there are a lot of hadiths from the Prophet talking about the Mahdi and quotes from Ali and other Shi'a leaders. Of course, the Qur'an also talks of the day of Bahá'u'lláh's coming as the day of judgement.

Cheers.
 
Old 06-02-2016, 05:58 AM   #19
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Qur'an set forth a universal principle governing the appearance of the Messengers of God. This principle which has no exceptions and therefore does not exclude Islam. It provides that any people who receive the Messenger of God are given a fixed term or appointed time. At such an appointed time, a Divine Book is revealed by God through His Messenger, which seals the past term and starts the new one.

Allah says:
And for every nation is a [specified] term. So when their time has come, they will not remain behind an hour, nor will they precede [it]. (Ar'raf – 7:34)

Also, Allah says:
For every term is a Book. Allah eliminates what He wills or confirms, and with Him is the Mother of the Book. (Ra'd – 13:41-42)

Still more, Allah says:
No nation will precede its time [of termination], nor will they remain [thereafter]. (Mu'minun – 23:43)

From the above verses it is clear that the Qur’an sets the principal of limited time for every nation. There is no place in the Qur’an where the opposite is specified for Muslims. The notion that Muslims are for an eternal period of time is not supported with the verses of the Qur’an. The Qur’an in fact says the contrary, declaring that every nation has a fixed time.

Obviously, if the previous term expires and a new term is to initiate, a new Messenger will do it as it has always been that way. Allah says in the Qur'an that humanity will never find any change in the Sunnah of Allah.

At the moment I can only say this much, I will come back, maybe, in a few days and attempt to provide a few verses that pertain to the theme of the coming of a new Messenger.

Allah'u'Abha!

Last edited by arcane; 06-02-2016 at 06:02 AM.
 
Old 06-02-2016, 12:27 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arcane View Post
Qur'an set forth a universal principle governing the appearance of the Messengers of God. This principle which has no exceptions and therefore does not exclude Islam. It provides that any people who receive the Messenger of God are given a fixed term or appointed time. At such an appointed time, a Divine Book is revealed by God through His Messenger, which seals the past term and starts the new one.

Allah says:
And for every nation is a [specified] term. So when their time has come, they will not remain behind an hour, nor will they precede [it]. (Ar'raf – 7:34)

Also, Allah says:
For every term is a Book. Allah eliminates what He wills or confirms, and with Him is the Mother of the Book. (Ra'd – 13:41-42)

Still more, Allah says:
No nation will precede its time [of termination], nor will they remain [thereafter]. (Mu'minun – 23:43)

From the above verses it is clear that the Qur’an sets the principal of limited time for every nation. There is no place in the Qur’an where the opposite is specified for Muslims. The notion that Muslims are for an eternal period of time is not supported with the verses of the Qur’an. The Qur’an in fact says the contrary, declaring that every nation has a fixed time.

Obviously, if the previous term expires and a new term is to initiate, a new Messenger will do it as it has always been that way. Allah says in the Qur'an that humanity will never find any change in the Sunnah of Allah.

At the moment I can only say this much, I will come back, maybe, in a few days and attempt to provide a few verses that pertain to the theme of the coming of a new Messenger.

Allah'u'Abha!
Thank you this is good information for all of us.

RegardsTony
 
Old 06-03-2016, 11:06 AM   #21
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Thank you this is good information for all of us.

RegardsTony
You are welcome.
 
Old 06-03-2016, 11:07 AM   #22
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إِنَّا أَرْسَلْنَا إِلَيْكُمْ رَسُولًا شَاهِدًا عَلَيْكُمْ كَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا إِلَىٰ فِرْعَوْنَ رَسُولًا
Indeed, We have sent to you a Messenger as a witness upon you just as We sent to Pharaoh a messenger. (Quran 73:15)

The above verse identifies His Holiness Muhammad, who was a Messenger, as a "witness" (شاھد).

Now have a look at the following verse:
أَفَمَن كَانَ عَلَىٰ بَيِّنَةٍ مِّن رَّبِّهِ وَيَتْلُوهُ شَاهِدٌ مِّنْهُ وَمِن قَبْلِهِ كِتَابُ مُوسَىٰ إِمَامًا وَرَحْمَةً ۚ أُولَٰئِكَ يُؤْمِنُونَ بِهِ ۚ وَمَن يَكْفُرْ بِهِ مِنَ الْأَحْزَابِ فَالنَّارُ مَوْعِدُهُ ۚ فَلَا تَكُ فِي مِرْيَةٍ مِّنْهُ ۚ إِنَّهُ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّكَ وَلَٰكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لَا يُؤْمِنُونَ
This is the one who (stands) on a clear proof from Lord. And a witness from Him follows it, and before it the Scripture of Moses was there to lead and as mercy. These people will believe (in the witness). But whoever disbelieves in it from the (various) factions (sects) - the Fire is his promised destination (for them). So be not in doubt about it (the witness). Indeed, it is the truth from your Lord, but most of the people do not believe. (Quran 11:17)

The Quran explicitly mentions the coming of a witness after Muhammad as is evident from the above verse. And as mentioned before, Quran uses the word witness for Messengers. So it is very logical to say that the one who had to come was a Messenger. In contrast, Muslims await for a Mehdi who is not a Messenger, as they think it would be a violation of the verse that says Muhammad is the seal of the Prophets. But here is the problem in their understanding, the Quran says that the one who is to come is a Witness, in other words, a Messenger.

Also, the Quran speaks of two personalities. One is the Witness and the other is the Witnessed (see Quran 85:3). The Witness was His Holiness The Bab. And His Holiness Bahá'u'lláh was the Witnessed.

وَإِذَا الرُّسُلُ أُقِّتَتْ
And when the Messengers are gathered to their appointed time.
لِأَيِّ يَوْمٍ أُجِّلَتْ
For what Day was it postponed?
لِيَوْمِ الْفَصْلِ
For the Day of Judgement. (Quran 77:11-13)

Similarly, the first verse from above three verses uses the word "l-rusulu" (الرُّسُلُ) which is a nominative masculine plural noun meaning Messengers; not a single Messenger. The next two verses also clarify that the coming of these two Messengers is postponed up-to the coming of the Day of Judgement, exactly in accordance to what the Baha'i Faith says.

The subject of Twin Manifestation is treated in the Quran many times, in metaphorical description. There are many passages in the Quran that indicate the occurrence of twin events on the Day of Resurrection.

And the trumpet shall be blown, and, lo! they shall speed out of their sepulchres to their Lord: They shall say, "Oh! woe to us! who hath roused us from our sleeping place? 'Tis what the God of Mercy promised; and the Apostles spake the truth." But one blast shall there be, and, lo! they shall be assembled before us, all together. (Quran 36:51-53)

Let us look at another verse as well:

One day, the disturbing trumpet-blast shall disturb it, Which the second blast shall follow: Men's hearts on that day shall be downcast. The infidels will say, "Shall we indeed be restored as at first? What! When we have become rotten bones?" "This then," say they, "will be a return to loss. Verily, it will be but a single blast, And lo! They are on the surface of the earth. (Quran 79:6-14)

Here, the verses indicate that there would be two consecutive, violent commotions, which "will be but a single blast", indicating that they will be close to each other in time and may be considered as one. Other verses in the Quran restate this theme, for example:

And there shall be a blast on the trumpet, and all who are in the Heavens and all who are in the Earth shall expire, save those whom God shall vouchsafe to live. Then shall there be another blast on it, and lo! Arising they shall gaze around them: And the earth shall shine with the light of her Lord, and the Book shall be set, and the prophets shall be brought up, and the witnesses; and judgment shall be given between them with equity; and none shall be wronged (Quran 39:68-69)


I hope that what I have written above provided you with some guidance. Please remember this servant of Bahá'u'lláh in your prayers.

Allah'u'Abha!

Last edited by arcane; 06-03-2016 at 11:09 AM.
 
Old 06-03-2016, 12:35 PM   #23
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Joined: Sep 2010
From: Normanton Far North Queensland
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Thank you Arcane. The first quoted passage was also Naming Jesus as a Messenger and it would be good to know in the last posted passage if the translation of "Light of the Lord" is much the same as the Translation of "Glory of God" or "Glory of the Lord" from the Bible.

Regards Tony
 
Old 06-03-2016, 01:58 PM   #24
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Joined: Nov 2015
From: Pakistan
Posts: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfish58 View Post
Thank you Arcane. The first quoted passage was also Naming Jesus as a Messenger and it would be good to know in the last posted passage if the translation of "Light of the Lord" is much the same as the Translation of "Glory of God" or "Glory of the Lord" from the Bible.

Regards Tony
Dear Tony,

The Arabic term that the verse uses for light is bin-nur-i-rabbi-ha which means light of its Lord. Nur (نور) is the most commonly used word for light in Arabic. For glory, Arabic contains many words but as far as I have searched (and I am not an expert), glory does not have any usage in Arabic that is in proximity to light (Nur). The closest one that I could find was shine (تألق) and the verse of the Quran is not using it.

But I am no authority, there might be a relationship that I am not identifying and someone else will.

Stay blessed. Regards
 
Old 06-04-2016, 11:27 AM   #25
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Joined: Jun 2009
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Muhammad is not the father of any one of your men, but he is the Messenger of God and the last of the prophets... (Quran, 33:40)
 
Old 06-04-2016, 12:45 PM   #26
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Joined: Sep 2010
From: Normanton Far North Queensland
Posts: 3,864
Quote:
Originally Posted by jupitermadcat View Post
Muhammad is not the father of any one of your men, but he is the Messenger of God and the last of the prophets... (Quran, 33:40)
Yes the age of Prophesy was closed with Muhammad, the age of Fulfillment Opened by the Bab and Baha'ullah.

Regards Tony
 
Old 06-06-2016, 04:35 PM   #27
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Joined: Oct 2013
From: United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jupitermadcat View Post
Muhammad is not the father of any one of your men, but he is the Messenger of God and the last of the prophets... (Quran, 33:40)
I would argue that "seal of the prophets" is a better translation.
 
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