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Old 08-18-2017, 11:58 PM   #1
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Hypocrisy

"Be thou of the people of hell-fire, but be not a hypocrite.

That is the first line of a poem composed by Bahaullah. I have a bit of problem in understanding it, tho.

take the case of ISIS. they "really" think what they are doing is correct. they believe they are promoting the real Islam and in doing so, they believe, they are helping to purify the world. So, as much as their deeds are evil, they are not "hypocrites". so how is it better to burn in hell fire rather than to be a hypocrite? is it better to (as an example) be a member of ISIS rather than a hypocrite??? how do you explain the meaning of hypocrisy here?
 
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Old 08-19-2017, 12:40 AM   #2
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Oh, it's simple. Those people belong to both categories.

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Old 08-19-2017, 12:46 AM   #3
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Oh, it's simple. Those people belong to both categories.

gnat

How? they really think their version of Islam is the correct one. how can it be hypocrisy?
 
Old 08-19-2017, 01:01 AM   #4
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How? they really think their version of Islam is the correct one. how can it be hypocrisy?
Indeed, it's in their interest to think so. Just take the foundation of their movement - that their leader has the right to assume the title of caliph. Preposterous is just a weak shadow of a description.

And look at the background of those people - criminals, drug dealers, and what not. How could they be hypocrites, when all of a sudden they claim to be the true Muslims?

And as true Muslims, they are entitled to burn people alive and rape their women prisoners - that is, to follow their previous career paths, but in the name of Islam. Is that not hypocrisy?

Saddening to discuss such a subject with you, by the way. I'd rather discuss things like the poetry of Rumi, or Winnie-the Pooh's Taoist inclination.

gnat
 
Old 08-19-2017, 01:19 AM   #5
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Ok, ISIS is an extreme example and I do not know the background of each and every member of it. but let's take the case of Muslims who fight against the truth of Bahai faith. In Iran there are many people who are brainwashed by the clergies to believe what they believe and it is so deeply rooted in their brains (even in the brains of the generations before them) that they cannot even guess they are wrong. then they start to curse the truth etc. but they are not hypocrites. they really think they are correct, out of stupidity and blindness. what about this one?
 
Old 08-19-2017, 01:39 AM   #6
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Ok, ISIS is an extreme example and I do not know the background of each and every member of it. but let's take the case of Muslims who fight against the truth of Bahai faith. In Iran there are many people who are brainwashed by the clergies to believe what they believe and it is so deeply rooted in their brains (even in the brains of the generations before them) that they cannot even guess they are wrong. then they start to curse the truth etc. but they are not hypocrites. they really think they are correct, out of stupidity and blindness. what about this one?
Oh, there are so many of those people everywhere - those who believe that they do the right thing by being nasty to others, in the name of this and that. I deal with them every day. I just realized that I m not in the mood today to discuss them, and especially not with you - you are so far from being such a person.

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Old 08-19-2017, 02:00 AM   #7
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Oh, there are so many of those people everywhere - those who believe that they do the right thing by being nasty to others, in the name of this and that. I deal with them every day. I just realized that I m not in the mood today to discuss them, and especially not with you - you are so far from being such a person.

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thank you Gnat
 
Old 08-19-2017, 12:14 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by maryamr View Post
"Be thou of the people of hell-fire, but be not a hypocrite.

That is the first line of a poem composed by Bahaullah. I have a bit of problem in understanding it, tho.

take the case of ISIS. they "really" think what they are doing is correct. they believe they are promoting the real Islam and in doing so, they believe, they are helping to purify the world. So, as much as their deeds are evil, they are not "hypocrites". so how is it better to burn in hell fire rather than to be a hypocrite? is it better to (as an example) be a member of ISIS rather than a hypocrite??? how do you explain the meaning of hypocrisy here?
Hello Maryamr, these are some quotes, which I think gives some ideas, which people would be hypocrites, in the words of Bahaullah:


"On their tongue the mention of God hath become an empty name; in their midst His holy Word a dead letter. Such is the sway of their desires, that the lamp of conscience and reason hath been quenched in their hearts, and this although the fingers of divine power have unlocked the portals of the knowledge of God, and the light of divine knowledge and heavenly grace hath illumined and inspired the essence of all created things, in such wise that in each and every thing a door of knowledge hath been opened, and within every atom traces of the sun hath been made manifest. And yet, in spite of all these manifold revelations of divine knowledge, which have encompassed the world, they still vainly imagine the door of knowledge to be closed, and the showers of mercy to be stilled. Clinging unto idle fancy, they have strayed far from the Urvatu’l-Vuthq of divine knowledge. Their hearts seem not to be inclined to knowledge and the door thereof, neither think they of its manifestations, inasmuch as in idle fancy they have found the door that leadeth unto earthly riches, whereas in the manifestation of the Revealer of knowledge they find naught but the call to self-sacrifice. They therefore naturally hold fast unto the former, and flee from the latter. Though they recognize in their hearts the Law of God to be one and the same, yet from every direction they issue a new command, and in every season proclaim a fresh decree. No two are found to agree on one and the same law, for they seek no God but their own desire, and tread no path but the path of error. In leadership they have recognized the ultimate object of their endeavour, and account pride and haughtiness as the highest attainments of their heart’s desire. They have placed their sordid machinations above the divine decree, have renounced resignation unto the will of God, busied themselves with selfish calculation, and walked in the way of the hypocrite. With all their power and strength they strive to secure themselves in their petty pursuits, fearful lest the least discredit undermine their authority or blemish the display of their magnificence. Were the eye to be anointed and illumined with the collyrium of the knowledge of God, it would surely discover that a number of voracious beasts have gathered and preyed upon the carrion of the souls of men."

Last edited by InvestigateTruth; 08-19-2017 at 12:19 PM.
 
Old 08-19-2017, 02:05 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by gnat View Post
Indeed, it's in their interest to think so. Just take the foundation of their movement - that their leader has the right to assume the title of caliph. Preposterous is just a weak shadow of a description.

And look at the background of those people - criminals, drug dealers, and what not. How could they be hypocrites, when all of a sudden they claim to be the true Muslims?

And as true Muslims, they are entitled to burn people alive and rape their women prisoners - that is, to follow their previous career paths, but in the name of Islam. Is that not hypocrisy?

Saddening to discuss such a subject with you, by the way. I'd rather discuss things like the poetry of Rumi, or Winnie-the Pooh's Taoist inclination.

gnat
I was sure he was Daoist, Jan
 
Old 08-19-2017, 07:58 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by maryamr View Post
[B] how do you explain the meaning of hypocrisy here?
It is far less damaging to the Cause of God to oppose it explicitly, than to pretend to support it with our words, but deny it with our deeds.

Jesus says:

"I know your deeds; you are neither cold nor hot. How I wish you were one or the other. So because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of My mouth!…" (Revelation 3:15, 16)

The worst enemies of Baha'u'llah and Abdul'Bah did not come from among the atheists, Iranian clergy or Otoman government officials... but from people within his own family who pretended to understand and love him.

Last edited by camachoe; 08-19-2017 at 08:09 PM.
 
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