Bahai Forums

Go Back   Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Teachings

Baha'i Teachings Baha'i Teachings and Doctrine - Social Principles, Greater Covenant, Lesser Covenant


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-28-2018, 11:33 AM   #1
Member
 
Joined: Jan 2018
From: Maine
Posts: 35
Was Jesus' death on the cross a sin offering or Not?

What is the official Baha'i interpretation of Jesus' death on the cross? I was curious about Baha'is theology about this. Can someone please explain this to me

Last edited by joey473; 01-28-2018 at 02:17 PM.
 
Join Baha'i Forums


Welcome to Baha'i Forums, an open Baha'i Faith community! We welcome everyone and the community is free to join so register today and become part of the Baha'i Forums family!


Old 01-28-2018, 01:46 PM   #2
Member
 
Joined: Jan 2018
From: Maine
Posts: 35
I found the Bahai interpretation about Jesus Christ on Bahai.org.

In addition to discussing Jesus Christ in general terms, and in terms of the Trinity, the Bahá'í writings discuss Jesus Himself. Jesus' death on the cross is recognised as an atonement for humanity (God Passes By, 188; Tablets of 'Abdu'l-Bahá Abbas, 543). Bahá'u'lláh describes Jesus' impact on the world in very specific terms:
Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole of Creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent spirit . . . He it is who purified the world. Blessed the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him. (Gleanings 86)

Bahá'u'lláh states that while all the Manifestations of God hold an equal spiritual station, they are not equal in terms of the intensity and potency of their revelations (Kitáb-i-Íqán 104). The above quotation suggests that Jesus Christ, the Manifestation who founded what is today the largest religious community on the planet, had a unique impact on human history; an impact that perhaps was greater than that of any other Manifestation before Bahá'u'lláh.
 
Old 01-28-2018, 01:48 PM   #3
Member
 
Joined: Jan 2018
From: Maine
Posts: 35
I think I was misunderstanding Baha'i interpretation. I'm new to the Baha'i faith and am just learning. The Baha'i faith has there own interpretations and I need to learn them all. I get confused a lot because I am new to the faith and am learning it.
 
Old 01-28-2018, 01:53 PM   #4
Member
 
Joined: Jan 2018
From: Maine
Posts: 35
I found more on the essence of the manifestations of God:

Two philosophical terms might be useful to clarify the twofold station of the Manifestations that Bahá'u'lláh describes. One is ontology, 'the science or study of being' (Oxford English Dictionary). Ontology pertains to the nature or essence of things. The other term is epistemology, 'the theory or science of the method or grounds of knowledge' (Oxford English Dictionary). Epistemology pertains to what we can know about things. What we can know about a thing is not necessarily identical to the thing itself.

One can argue that Bahá'u'lláh is asserting that epistemologically the Manifestations are God, for they are the perfect embodiment of all we can know about God; but ontologically they are not God, for they are not identical with God's essence. Perhaps this is the meaning of the words attributed to Jesus in the gospel of John: 'If you had known me, you would have known my Father also' (John 14:7) and 'he who has seen me has seen the Father (John 14:9).


Bahá'u'lláh uses the concept of the twofold station to explain seemingly contradictory statements in the Qur'án and hadith about Muhammad:
The first station, which is related to His [the Manifestations] innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself. To this testified the tradition: 'Manifold and mysterious is My relationship with God. I am He, Himself, and He is I, Myself, except that I am that I am, and He is that He is. And in like manner, the words: 'Arise, O Muhammad, for the Lover and the Beloved are joined together and made one in Thee. He similarly saith: 'There is no distinction whatsoever between Thee [God] and Them [the Manifestations], except that They are Thy servants. The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: 'I am but a man like you. 'Say praise be to my Lord! Am I more than a man, an apostle? (Gleanings 66-67).
 
Old 01-28-2018, 02:00 PM   #5
Member
 
Joined: Jan 2018
From: Maine
Posts: 35
So I guess that Baha'is do believe in the atonement according to my research on Bahia.org.

the Bahá'í writings discuss Jesus Himself. Jesus' death on the cross is recognised as an atonement for humanity (God Passes By, 188; Tablets of 'Abdu'l-Bahá Abbas, 543

Looks like I got the answer to my question. Someone told me that Baha'is don't believe in Jesus' death on the cross as an atoning sacrifice. So I had to look it up myself on Bahai.org to be sure. Lot's of misunderstanding on my part. I just want to understand the Baha'i faith better because I think it's a cool religion.
 
Old 01-28-2018, 02:14 PM   #6
Member
 
Joined: Jan 2018
From: Maine
Posts: 35
Found more on Jesus' atonement:

"Christ, Who is the Word of God, sacrificed Himself. This has two meanings, an apparent and an esoteric meaning. The outward meaning is this: Christ’s intention was to represent and promote a Cause which was to educate the human world, to quicken the children of Adam, and to enlighten all mankind; and since to represent such a great Cause—a Cause which was antagonistic to all the people of the world and all the nations and kingdoms—meant that He would be killed and crucified, so Christ in proclaiming His mission sacrificed His life. He regarded the cross as a throne, the wound as a balm, the poison as honey and sugar. He arose to teach and educate men, and so He sacrificed Himself to give the spirit of life. He perished in body so as to quicken others by the spirit.
 
Old 01-29-2018, 01:16 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Joined: Sep 2017
From: Birmingham
Posts: 222
-

Good on you my friend, I hope God helps you find what your after
 
Old 01-29-2018, 09:14 AM   #8
Member
 
Joined: Jan 2018
From: Maine
Posts: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
Good on you my friend, I hope God helps you find what your after
I understand the Baha'i interpretation now. Baha'is have there own interpretation which is different from the Catholic and Protestant interpretations.
 
Old 01-29-2018, 09:25 AM   #9
Member
 
Joined: Jan 2018
From: Maine
Posts: 35
In conclusion, we can see that the concept of atonement, as it is understood in the Bahá'í texts, denies the idea that God requires the payment of a blood sacrifice in order for the forgiveness of sins to be achieved; it rejects belief in the inherent supremacy of Jesus over other religious founders and discards the notion that only Jesus suffered and died for humanity’s sake

After reading this I think I will remain a Christian.
 
Old 01-29-2018, 09:27 AM   #10
Member
 
Joined: Jan 2018
From: Maine
Posts: 35
I didn't know anything about this religion. It sounded cool at first. But now it doesn't sound cool at all. I believe in the atonement of Jesus Christ. I believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for all of my sins.
 
Old 01-29-2018, 10:54 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Kettering, Ohio USA
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by joey473 View Post
In conclusion, we can see that the concept of atonement, as it is understood in the Bahá'í texts, denies the idea that God requires the payment of a blood sacrifice in order for the forgiveness of sins to be achieved; it rejects belief in the inherent supremacy of Jesus over other religious founders and discards the notion that only Jesus suffered and died for humanity’s sake

After reading this I think I will remain a Christian.
If God required Christ to be crucified in order for our sins to be forgiven, that would make Him an unmerciful God.

Last edited by Duane; 01-29-2018 at 02:26 PM.
 
Old 01-29-2018, 11:01 AM   #12
Member
 
Joined: Nov 2015
From: Canada
Posts: 97
Indeed, why is death required for salvation? I initially I struggled with the thought of being responsible for the washing away of my own sins, instead of being forgiven for what Christ had experienced. How unfair God would have treated Jesus, if it were the case that he atoned for our sins? God of all beings, the all-merciful and all-loving, would force the death of a person so that peoples sins could be forgiven?

No. We are responsible for our sins. We are the ones who sin, after all. We must take matters into our own hands and right the wrongs we as people may have done. This is not an area I'm extremely experienced with outside of my initial struggle, so my apologies if there's any quotes that go against what I've said.

I wish you the best of luck on your spiritual journey, no matter what religion you find yourself in
 
Old 01-30-2018, 12:58 AM   #13
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
tonyfish58's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: Normanton Far North Queensland
Posts: 4,108
Quote:
Originally Posted by joey473 View Post
I didn't know anything about this religion. It sounded cool at first. But now it doesn't sound cool at all. I believe in the atonement of Jesus Christ. I believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for all of my sins.
Christ did indeed die so we could find forgiveness for the sins we commit.

The Bab gave His life so we find our Salvation in the One Whom God would make Manifest. Baha'u'llah.

Baha'ullah faced years of Persecution so that mankind could find true liberty which is submission unto God and His Laws, for the Salvation of all Humanity.

This forgiveness remains in our acceptance of Christ and in following God's Laws and guidance in Word and Deed.

Regards Tony
 
Old 01-30-2018, 03:58 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2015
From: Bend area, Oregon
Posts: 170
One place an answer can be found is in the Fire Tablet where a dialog between He who is the Recipient of Revelation and the Voice of God occurs. The Voice of God uttered, “When the swords flash, go forward! When the shafts fly, press onward! O Thou Sacrifice of the worlds.” For a fuller understanding, please see the entire Tablet here: Bahá'à Reference Library - Bahá’à Prayers: A Selection of Prayers Revealed by Bahá’u’lláh, the Báb, and ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Pages 214-220

-LR
 
Old 01-31-2018, 12:01 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
maryamr's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
From: Blue Planet
Posts: 1,248
now what does it really mean to be an atonement for the sins of humanity? I was thinking about this ever since I started studying Bible, because I saw this particular sentence very often in it. then I reached to this part "Letter to the Hebrews" and it is the first time I see a clear explanation about "being an atonement for the sins of humanity". It may be the only time there is that explanation in the Bible. it goes as this:

Therefore because the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself in like manner hath been partaker of the same: that, through death, he might destroy him who had the empire of death, that is to say, the devil: 15 And might deliver them, who through the fear of death were all their lifetime subject to servitude. 16 For nowhere doth he take hold of the angels: but of the seed of Abraham he taketh hold.


so in fact Jesus Christ, through His death, delivered people of their fear of death. and what is death in Biblical and religious symbolism? it is sin. so in a way, when Christ died on the cross, He showed the Jews that it is not a sin, not a source of fear, to declare their faith on Jesus even if in the past they believed that the laws of Moses were unchangeable. Jews for example, I saw many many times in Bible, argued about the matter of "Circumcision" and it remained a problem for them and a barrier. they were afraid to take the new laws; they thought only the old laws could save them. Jesus died to show them that their fear was useless and illogical.

with this explanation, do you think, dear Joey, that your fear of death is also cured? do not you fear to let go of the old laws for the new ones? I hope that is the case. I am not saying that you should, but I think to do so is a sign of being delivered from sin through Jesus crucification.
 
Old 02-01-2018, 02:05 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2015
From: Bend area, Oregon
Posts: 170
I offer for consideration more words from Bahá’u’lláh, the manifestation of that ancient, divine, and universal Reality - the Primal Will - that cycles in and out of human history to illuminate and educate humankind.

“Praise be to Thee, O Lord My God, for the wondrous revelations of Thy inscrutable decree and the manifold woes and trials Thou hast destined for Myself. At one time Thou didst deliver Me into the hands of Nimrod; at another Thou hast allowed Pharaoh’s rod to persecute Me. Thou, alone, canst estimate, through Thine all-encompassing knowledge and the operation of Thy Will, the incalculable afflictions I have suffered at their hands. Again Thou didst cast Me into the prison-cell of the ungodly, for no reason except that I was moved to whisper into the ears of the well-favored denizens of Thy Kingdom an intimation of the vision with which Thou hadst, through Thy knowledge, inspired Me, and revealed to Me its meaning through the potency of Thy might. And again Thou didst decree that I be beheaded by the sword of the infidel. Again I was crucified for having unveiled to men’s eyes the hidden gems of Thy glorious unity, for having revealed to them the wondrous signs of Thy sovereign and everlasting power. How bitter the humiliations heaped upon Me, in a subsequent age, on the plain of Karbilá! How lonely did I feel amidst Thy people! To what a state of helplessness I was reduced in that land! Unsatisfied with such indignities, My persecutors decapitated Me, and, carrying aloft My head from land to land paraded it before the gaze of the unbelieving multitude, and deposited it on the seats of the perverse and faithless. In a later age, I was suspended, and My breast was made a target to the darts of the malicious cruelty of My foes. My limbs were riddled with bullets, and My body was torn asunder. Finally, behold how, in this Day, My treacherous enemies have leagued themselves against Me, and are continually plotting to instill the venom of hate and malice into the souls of Thy servants. With all their might they are scheming to accomplish their purpose…. Grievous as is My plight, O God, My Well-Beloved, I render thanks unto Thee, and My Spirit is grateful for whatsoever hath befallen me in the path of Thy good-pleasure. I am well pleased with that which Thou didst ordain for Me, and welcome, however calamitous, the pains and sorrows I am made to suffer.” (Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, XXXIX)

-LR
 
Reply

  Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Teachings

Tags
cross, death, jesus, offering, sin



Thread Tools
Display Modes



Facebook @bahaiforums RSS


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2006 - 2018 Bahai Forums. All rights reserved.