Orthodox

So much for God wanting us all to unite and become one people and one religion huh?

tonyfish58

Times Change and the day of God Is here - The new teaching.....

“Let your vision be world embracing…” - Bahá’u’lláh

Throughout history, God has revealed Himself to humanity through a series of divine Messengers, whose teachings guide and educate us and provide the basis for the advancement of human society. These Messengers have included Abraham, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha, Jesus, and Muhammad. Their religions come from the same Source and are in essence successive chapters of one religion from God.

Bahá’u’lláh, the latest of these Messengers, brought new spiritual and social teachings for our time. His essential message is of unity. He taught the oneness of God, the oneness of the human family, and the oneness of religion.

Bahá'u'lláh said, “The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens,” and that, as foretold in all the sacred scriptures of the past, now is the time for humanity to live in unity.

Founded more than a century and a half ago, the Bahá'í Faith has spread around the globe. Members of the Bahá'í Faith live in more than 100,000 localities and come from nearly every nation, ethnic group, culture, profession, and social or economic background.

Bahá'ís believe the crucial need facing humanity is to find a unifying vision of the nature and purpose of life and of the future of society. Such a vision unfolds in the writings of Bahá'u'lláh. •

Orthodox

Still, I don't understand how you claim to believe and follow the quran (correct me if I am wrong) and then just dismiss it's infallible message.

tonyfish58

The only way to truly understand how this works is to accept that the current interpretations of scripture are flawed and look at it through new eyes.

The keys needed are given by Bahau'llah. So unless one is willing to try to understand this message, these questions will always arise and never be answered.

Regards Tony

Orthodox

Its flawed how? you are not to enter into an alliance with Christians or Jews, Or by some translations friends.

arthra

The verse was revealed for the time when the early Muslims were under attack by pagan Meccans and the temptation was to form an alliance with the armed and fortified Christian and Jewish communities.. It had nothiing to do with forming basic friendships with people..It also means to put your trust in God rather than form alliances with other groups:

Your real ally is only Allah and His Messenger and those who believe who observe Prayer and present Zakat and they bow down (in obedience to Allah)

Al-Ma'idah 5:55

Orthodox

Ah, so God is telling you not to unite. You do accept the quran and everything it says right? It hasn't been made invalid in bahai like the gospels have right? Probably because of the Bab and that all your leaders came from that islamic setting in which the quran was accepted. Gotta love the rational explanation of things. But heres the thing, whats wrong with forming an alliance with the Christians? ANd the quran is quite wrong here, for the Jews and Christians weren't allies or friends with each other. So much for the quran being true and from God.

Sboyce

The Qu'ran has been been ceded the Bayan of the Bab. The Bayan was ceded by the Aqdas.Simple belief.
Orthodox, debating the metaphysical realities of God is futile. I mean we believe by books words and feelings, this is why Atheist consider religious people to be "dumb in their beliefs based on pseudoscience and superstition." You may have deep belief in the Gospels and the like but you cannot see into God's mind, as he is your creator and above you. Who are any of us to say "this is the way it is because this is the way its been recorded?" I appreciate that you want to debate and further expand knowledge, but in all honesty nothing is being gained from this idle, divisive chatter.

Orthodox

I think the irony is lost on you Sboyce. You appeal to atheists and say that people who dialogue or debate metaphysical truths, philosophy and whatever when they would respect them much more than the ones who would ignore these things, like you. But Sboyce, ehre is the thing, if you say we cannot say anything about God, Why are you bahai? is it just personal choice because you prefer it? Thats quite the witness for bahai, wouldn't you say?

Sboyce

I appreciate the ad hominim . I was referring to debating for the sole purpose to refute others views.

Orthodox

Ad hominem? I have no way insulted you as a means to refute your argument. Logical fallacies have to be learnt in order to accuse others of them.

Eftekhar Be Khoda

Look, I don't think you can make the blanket statement that because Jesus set up a succession of priests that there would never be another prophet, because it stands to reason that men would pervert the message to their own benefit. And we do have such evidence that the church did such things. They got the Trinity thing wrong.

Peter sounds like a good muslim in Acts 2.

14and Peter having stood up with the eleven, lifted up his voice and declared to them, `Men, Jews! and all those dwelling in Jerusalem, let this be known to you, and harken to my sayings,

15for these are not drunken, as ye take it up, for it is the third hour of the day.

16`But this is that which hath been spoken through the prophet Joel:

17And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;

18and also upon My men-servants, and upon My maid-servants, in those days, I will pour out of My Spirit, and they shall prophesy;

19and I will give wonders in the heaven above, and signs upon the earth beneath -- blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke,

20the sun shall be turned to darkness, and the moon to blood, before the coming of the day of the Lord -- the great and illustrious;

21and it shall be, every one -- whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, he shall be saved.

22`Men, Israelites! hear these words, Jesus the Nazarene, a man approved of God among you by mighty works, and wonders, and signs, that God did through him in the midst of you, according as also ye yourselves have known;

23this one, by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, being given out, having taken by lawless hands, having crucified -- ye did slay;

24whom God did raise up, having loosed the pains of the death, because it was not possible for him to be held by it,

25for David saith in regard to him: I foresaw the Lord always before me -- because He is on my right hand -- that I may not be moved;

26because of this was my heart cheered, and my tongue was glad, and yet -- my flesh also shall rest on hope,

27because Thou wilt not leave my soul to hades, nor wilt Thou give Thy Kind One to see corruption;

28Thou didst make known to me ways of life, Thou shalt fill me with joy with Thy countenance.

29`Men, brethren! it is permitted to speak with freedom unto you concerning the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is among us unto this day;

30a prophet, therefore, being, and knowing that with an oath God did swear to him, out of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, to raise up the Christ, to sit upon his throne,

31having foreseen, he did speak concerning the rising again of the Christ, that his soul was not left to hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.

32`This Jesus did God raise up, of which we are all witnesses;

33at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear;

34for David did not go up to the heavens, and he saith himself: The Lord saith to my lord, Sit thou at my right hand,

35till I make thy foes thy footstool;

36assuredly, therefore, let all the house of Israel know, that both Lord and Christ did God make him -- this Jesus whom ye did crucify.'

37And having heard, they were pricked to the heart; they say also to Peter, and to the rest of the apostles, `What shall we do, men, brethren?'

Now if Jesus was God Himself, then Peter quite obviously blasphemed, because he says several times "God did this through Jesus" and literally calls Jesus "a man approved by God" and later "exalted". This on the day of Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit just came down on him. There's no way you could get the deity of Christ from these statements. In fact at best you'd get a prophet of some sort, and it seems odd that the Spirit would have not mentioned Jesus being God in the first message about Jesus preached by the apostles. God raised Jesus from the dead. According to the apostles, filled with the holy spirit, on the day of Pentecost.

cire perdue

I did not read all you said, but the last paragraph is great. I agree. People believe what they want to as long as they can stick their head in the sand. If they have to question what they believe they may have to look at themselves, and there are some really good people out there who would rather die than examine themselves or go through a little pain.

This Faith answers the most questions, but it takes a person who is not afraid to look at himself/herself to do so. I am so grateful for what I know as a Baha'i, and I have achieved it myself, no one filled me up with dogma or theology. I got to read the Writings and my ideas bloom. That is freedom!!!!! But there is also responsibility. No wonder people run.

Eftekhar Be Khoda

I'll just say not exactly.

For example, in the "last words" no one really says that that's ALL jesus said. Mathew and Mark are clearly quoting Aramaic, which is a language that doesn't use vowels the way English writing does. Eli and Eloi and so on may have been written identically in Aramaic only to be mistyped when translated into the Greek alphabet (especially if you consider Greek noun declensions) -- it's not so much that the words are different in the original Aramaic that Jesus spoke, but in trying to render those words into the Greek. As for the others -- again, I don't think that they were meant to be exclusive in that jesus only said what was recorded, but that they selected the sayings on the basis of how they wanted to explain Jesus.

And why couldn't jesus have been offered 3 different drinks. I think the cruxifixion took several hours possibly up to 6 hours. So being offered a drink 3 times is not beyond the realm of possibility -- and refusing the first may have had something to do with what myrrh is. Myrrh at least according to the wikipedia has some pain relieving properties, which jesus as a martyr may have purposely avoided.

Now as to carrying the cross, again different writers were explaining jesus through those stories -- when John wrote, he was definately pushing the supernatural angle. there was no good reason to include Joseph of Aramathea in such a book.

TLDR the books were all written essentially as propaganda and emphasized different parts of the story to convince a different audience. If I was trying to convince you to join my religion (assuming for the moment that I made one up) I'd write differently to the Satanists than to the Catholics and differently again to the Baha'is. Not all that shocking. Heck I think writing to the Democrats and Republicans would require a different approach. Why do you think the ancient world was different?