cire perdue

Any new revelation is going to challenge and change the mores, morals, and ideas of the civilizations into which it is introduced. It is my opinion that when Emperor Constantine supported the view that Christ was/is con-substantial with God, he damaged Christianity and made it more pagan. A new religion changes people who otherwise would have continued to be immoral, dishonest, and at odds with standards for improvement that the new religion brings, and if not for the spiritual infusion of truth they would not have been able to be changed by their new faith.

In the book THE VARIETIES OF SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCES by William James (which was a primary source used to formulate The Twelve Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous and is a profoundly important spiritual methodology) he states that people may be changed by spiritual means when no volitional attempts will succeed, that spiritual striving will triumph over moral musts. In a few cases this may happen instantaneously, but as even AA states, spiritual awakening is a slow process that will take effort, a process not a destination. To take any part of the Baha'i Laws and dissect them in order to refuse to avoid a spiritual test is tantamount to having no religion at all. It is refusing to change, to ignore divine authority, and to deny the truth of the Manifestation.To refuse to accept these laws and then rally others to accept that viewpoint is more than sad.

Anyone who has spent anytime in a gay bar, who is aware of bath houses, of extreme sexual practices, of seductions, and the acceptance of this within the gay community could not possibly be able to rectify this with a world order that will change the face of the moral behavior of the world and particularly the decadence of the western world. It is a tragedy to accept being homosexual when it is probably a disorder similar to alcoholism. If alcoholism is genetic then is it a natural state? Is homosexuality natural because it is genetic? Cystic Fibrosis is genetic.

Even if genetic like alcoholism, recovery is possible, marriage/family are possible. Does anyone want a world where it becomes even more likely that a child will encounter early sexual experience with a peer, because it is perfectly okay? It is natural? Early sexual experiences are not conducive to mental health as most who has been seduced can attest.

It is a fear, but it a likelihood that acceptance of the gay lifestyle without reservations, will increase the focus on sex as a casual activity, to be practiced without commitment, started at an early age, and further complicate a stable pattern for families. The Baha'i laws are not about blind rules that one follows to keep score with God. These precious laws are what will make us happy. I cannot believe those who argue against the laws are happy or at peace with themselves. It is probably the most primary and primitive defense to first attack situations which do not agree with one rather than to consider one's self in error. That sounds very much like one's animal nature which reacts blindly to defend. One who chooses a response rather than react is making a spiritual choice. That is what Baha'is are asked to do, to make choices and not be limited by desires and passions.

The long view is probably that society's sexual practices will become so extreme and accepted that the Baha'i Faith will stand alone in a center of calm while a hurricane of confusion wreaks havoc in personal lives. The question for the individual is: to what does one want to contribute? To a less sexual world that is peaceful and safe or a world with free sexual practice that is not conducive to stability? warning label: BEING A BAHA'I FAITH MAY REQUIRE CHANGE!

aidan

I have had to make many adjustments to my life in order to be a Baha'i.Ive given up booze,casual sex with women and Ive had to learn to be loving and tolerant as demonstrated by the Most Ancient Wisdom.I have confined to the annals of my sinful past prejudice such as homophobia,xenophobia,mysogeny etc.I dont know if its possible or even necessary to recover from homosexuality.Ive been heterosexual for as long as I can remember.I am now celebate and may be so for the rest of my life unless God wants me to marry.I am a non-practising heterosexual.We should love and pray for all people who are leading a celibate life as any sexual activity outside of the holy state of Divinely sactioned marriage is forbidden and sinful.All people who have desisted from previous sexual activity are no longer sinning. as an after-thought,intellectually i know that homosexuality and pederasty are totally separate phenomena

The Lion

The long view is probably that society's sexual practices will become so extreme and accepted that the Baha'i Faith will stand alone in a center of calm while a hurricane of confusion wreaks havoc in personal lives. The question for the individual is: to what does one want to contribute? To a less sexual world that is peaceful and safe or a world with free sexual practice that is not conducive to stability? warning label: BEING A BAHA'I FAITH MAY REQUIRE CHANGE!

I find it odd that this post is based on a 'probably' and suggests that these are the either/or future choices for the world. A more peaceful world would hardly seem likely to be based on a less sexual society. I do not see any solid basis for this statement. Stability can easily mean the cessation of all further change and the Faith seems all about growth thru change. I fail to see how the sexual preferences of others, given that it is not intrusive to me, should impact on my personal growth.

Fadl

Proper sexuality has a role to play in the creation and maintenance of healthy individuals and families, and as such, there is nothing which can be envisioned that would support a change in this regard. If we were to speculate wildly, and envisage a situation where homosexuality became necessary for to the building and maintenance of this most basic and essential human structure, then I would agree with you, the law would need to be changed and the manifestation of God would no doubt command man to wed man and woman to wed woman, should it be for the well-being and preservation of future generations. Until such a strange and unforseen change should take effect, however, the law of God for marriage is between a man and a woman, and the only sanctioned place for sex is within a lawful marriage.

It may well be that societal laws need reworking to make things equitable and fair for homosexuals. I see no reason why a persons proper should not be extended to the one that is a partner and helper in life. However, that would also, in my opinion, extend to people of the same sex living together who are not involved in sexual relations, yet, are the basis of a common existence and shared defense, such as room mates, or, even two friends, or two brothers who live together and are helpmates. Much of the arguments for gay marriage have a tendency to argue against the inequity of inheritancy laws, tax laws, recognition, etc. I would tend to agree with them on the issues of inheritance and tax laws. I cannot agree on recognition, however, because a homosexual relationship is not, and cannot be equal to a matrimonial heterosexual relationship.

No homosexual should live in fear, be harrassed, barred from employment, or, disobeying the law of God and living in a homosexual relationship. But for it to be established as an equal alternative, is to establish something that is not true. I simply cannot imagine how frustrating it must be for someone afflicted with this condition to not be accepted when at the same time feeling it is all natural and normal from their point of view, and my prayers and sympathies go out to them. However, there are a great many disorders that human beings may be afflicted with, genetic and other. My heart and prayer goes out to them as well, and I would never support anything that causes the suffering of someone who is afflicted with any abnormality regardless of its cause. I draw the line, however, at doing anything that promotes what is not ideal, or delude myself into believing that homosexuality is not a disorder, because it simply is.

cire perdue

"The same lesson was taught by the very powerful and very desolate philosophy of Oscar Wilde. It is the carpe diem religion; but the carpe diem religion is not the religion of happy people, but of very unhappy people. Great joy does not gather the rosebuds while it may; its eyes are fixed on the immortal rose which Dante saw." G.K. Chesterton

The result of self indulgence is despair.........

Fadl

A wonderful and appropriate quote! G.K. Chesterton was a genius. I think his book Orthodoxy should be required reading.

aidan

If everyone was homosexual humanity would come to an end

Essence of GOD

sperm banks + artificial insemination

Fadl

and child farms, where children are raised and fed perfectly by machines...