Napkin

I've been going to this Ruhi class and I have a few questions......

We know that everything on earth comes from the earth itself and eventually they deteriorate, decompose, etc. Eventually everything goes back to the earth.....

So in this statement: All things come from god and return to God, if you replace the word God with earth, then science and religion do match

Essence of GOD

God is independent form all, including this universe.
yes , your physical body does come from dust and returns to dust,
but what about your true form, which is not of dust, or this realm of matter?

Iconodule

The only problem is, is that the earth and God have strict definitions which if one reinterprets like say the new age reinterpret "Men" to be "God" then you make these words meaningless in their distinction. The Biggest problem is that the earth began to exist, and the conception of God in most if not all religions is that he is eternal. Thus the metaphore fails because that was never the intent of those who revealed the religions of Old and redefining such a thing would simply be stupid.

Iconodule

True form is Body and soul, Not Gnostic Spiritualism.

Essence of GOD

the body will eventually be separated from you, and it will be left to rot.
you are not the clothes you wear.
this is just my opinion btw.

Sboyce

Well Nature is of God and therefore represents something of the higher realm.
Adib Teherzedeh gives a wonderful talk about it

arthra

The "earth" itself doesn't have to be seen as something alien to God.. We have star dust in the particles that make up our bodies.. "...the amount of stardust atoms in our body is 40%." according to How much of the human body is made up of stardust?

We Baha'is can appreciate that..

Let's look at the Writings for a minute:

Amongst them [is this]: "Consort with [people of all] religions with spirituality and fragrance.. Beware lest the zeal of ignorance possess you amongst mankind. All originated from God and returneth unto Him: verily He is the Source of creation and the Goal of the worlds."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, A Traveller's Narrative, p. 83

Verily, by Truth, every seed cast in this great and magnificent century (period) will be cultivated by God and produce plants through the abundance of the clouds of His mercy, which preceded the postulates, and from which all the existing beings have been awakened and issued, and to which they will return.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Tablets of Abdu'l-Baha v1, p. 171

Strive day and night that animosity and contention may pass away from the hearts of men, that all religions shall become reconciled and the nations love each other, so that no racial, religious or political prejudice may remain and the world of humanity behold God as the beginning and end of all existence. God has created all and all return to God. Therefore love humanity with all your heart and soul. If you meet a poor man, assist him; if you see the sick, heal him; reassure the affrighted one, render the cowardly noble and courageous, educate the ignorant, associate with the stranger. Emulate God

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 73

When Baha'is leave this world we wear a ring that says:

"I came forth from God, and return unto Him, detached from all save Him,
holding fast to His Name, the Merciful, the Compassionate"

~ Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 228

So this means that your spirit/soul comes from the spiritual world and returns to God. The material world also was created by God or originated from a Divine Source according to our belief.

Science has yet to verify that and there have been various theories..when there is scientific verification we respect it and are in harmony with it..but science itself will always have differtent hypotheses or possible explanations to explain phenomenau whether a steady state universe or a "big bang".

"I am the Primal Point from which have been generated all created things."

Sel. Writings of the Bab, p. 12.

I think when you consider what we're made of..and where we came from it's really quite miraculous... The formation of the foetus in the womb is miraculous..ever try to really wrap your mind around it?

Fadl

Rubbish!

The percent of stardust must be much higher, say nearly 100% (minus the hydrogen in your body) because all elements heavier than hydrogen were formed in stars.

Iconodule

Not what Christ promised us. And how shameful that it should be that God's creation should decay, perhaps God likes death and corruption that he decided it should be this way?

Napkin

Thank you all for your input.

Taking some lines from artha's post:

.....All originated from God and returneth unto Him: verily He is the Source of creation.....~ Abdu'l-Baha, A Traveller's Narrative, p. 83

..... Emulate God......~ Abdu'l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 73

.....I came forth from God, and return unto Him......~ Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 228

.....I am the Primal Point from which have been generated all created things......~The Bob


Statements like these are the reason behind the "God is the universe" theory.

Imagine God/universe as a big cloud and each created thing as a drop of rain. The drops come forth from the cloud, live on earth till they evaporate, and return unto the cloud. These drops are CREATED by the cloud but the cloud itself is made up of these drops.

Essence of GOD

so i guess we will live in the casket for eternity, thats awesome.

and yes everything made out of matter will decay, this is the process of change which is needed for a new birth of another creation.

Prodaytrader

Thank God we do die and decay or else we would never come to meet our creator. Baha'u'llah teaches that all material things decay in time, the Earth is no exception nor it's inhabitants. Change is part of the process which brings about Gods fullest intent for his creatures. No society that's existed on this planet was better then the ones we have now and none today will be better then those of tomorrow. Decay plays a huge role in teaching us this. Decay and change also teach us a name of God that we would not know otherwise. God is Constant and Unchanging. How do you teach a people that God is constant if you don't first teach them about decay and change?

Iconodule

A casket? Lol. No. A ressurected and glorified body which will not decay. I simply ask why would God create a world wherein it is natural that death should occur and be a good thing? Do the Bahai really think Death is a good and natural thing? Which goes in stark contrast to what scripture says?

"Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil."

Is death to rain victorious? that God's creation should be left to rot and fade? Why not simply create us as transcendant spirits in the first place? Why the need for physicality? Why laws against Homosexuality? Murder? Theft? and the like, all physical things if the physical is unimportant. I can't accept such views which ultimately leave us with gnosticism which was a heresy condemned.

Essence of GOD

death is not the end

tonyfish58

The death of the body - Yes - Bring it on...this life is very tiresome

The true life the scriptures talk about is the life of the Spirit. That is why in Matthew 8:22 - it is said "But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead".

The spiritually dead man buried the dead man.

That is why we are born again - John 3:6 - That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Our spirit is our true selves - John 6:63 - The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. Marvel not that I [Jesus] said unto thee, Ye must be born again"


Regards Tony

BruceDLimber

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iconodule Do the Bahai really think Death is a good and natural thing? Which goes in stark contrast to what scripture says?

Clearly you need to read some newer scripture, which I quote!:

"O SON OF THE SUPREME!

"I have made death a messenger of joy to thee; wherefore dost thou grieve?
"I have made the light to shine on thee its splendor; why dost thou veil thyself therefrom?"
--The Hidden Words, Part One, #32

ahanu

Abdu'l-Baha also talks about the human body and compares it with the universe:


"But I mean that this limitless universe is like the human body, all the members of which are connected and linked with one another with the greatest strength. How much the organs, the members and the parts of the body of man are intermingled and connected for mutual aid and help, and how much they influence one another! In the same way, the parts of this infinite universe have their members and elements connected with one another, and influence one another spiritually and materially."


By nature is meant those inherent properties and necessary relations derived from the realities of things. And these realities of things, though in the utmost diversity, are yet intimately connected one with the other. For these diverse realities an all-unifying agency is needed that shall link them all one to the other. For instance, the various organs and members, the parts and elements, that constitute the body of man, though at variance, are yet all connected one with the other by that all-unifying agency known as the human soul, that causeth them to function in perfect harmony and with absolute regularity, thus making the continuation of life possible. The human body, however, is utterly unconscious of that all-unifying agency, and yet acteth with regularity and dischargeth its functions according to its will.