4ourbestoutcome

I am totally new to Baha'i and am exploring it. I only very basically have an understanding of it being related to Islam by history, but certainly not a sect of Islam whatsoever. I read a reference of an analogy of what Christianity is to Judaism is kind of what Baha'i is to Islam.
I am not terribly knowledgeable of Islam, but it is definitely not a faith I am drawn to, although I have no issue with Mohammed being a prophet. I also work amongst Muslims and have no problem getting along with them. I have a general respect of all religions, but there are aspects of Islam and various denominations/types of Christianity that I am equally not hip on. The Old Testament has many atrocities in it-King David killing to make Bathsheba his wife, etc. The New Testament is where Chrisitian fundamentalists like to make women very secondary, "I do not permit woman to have authority over a man" etc, so women are second class in that respect to and could never lead a Bible study group or be a minister in that setting-relegated at best to teaching Sunday school to male children who aren't yet "men". I see women in Muslim garb all the time and it's definitely their business, but it makes me sad as I feel they are choosing to relegate themselves as second glass, but at the same time-I see no distress on their part, so then I'm like, well who am I to say? The Roman Catholic church has its own history of violence, shunning of "heretics", etc. So I am trying to be fair as I write this as the last thing I want to do is offend anyone.
So I guess in a nutshell, to be Baha'i, must I accept the Qu'ran and Islam?

cire perdue

The long answer is yes as well, but one has to remember that the past religions have been affected by the teachings and interpretations of men. Baha'is do not accept what men have done to Chrisitianity, Judiasm, Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism. The world religions were in decline when Baha'u'llah came. He came to renew the whole world. We do not have to disprove the previous religions because they are true, but Baha'u'llah has clarified many things that have been done by the followers of these Faiths. We live our life to improve all people's lives. We believe men and women are equal. What you are seeing is what men have chosen to do, not God.

cire perdue

I hope we can impart the spirit of this Faith to you. It has become a way of life for many of us. Nearly 40 years ago I became a Baha'i and little did I know it would become part of me and fill me as nothing in life has ever done. I am more interested than ever and see it as a process that will continue as long as I live. There is so much to learn. Mankind has never been able to examine so closely the life of a Messenger of God and have so many Writings. It is all that I hoped and longed for as a child in the church that was in the old hymns..........

Pollwr

Yes, to be a Bahá'í you must accept Mohammed and His Holy Book, the Qu'ran were from God. I do. I do not agree with the interpretation of His teachings practised by many of the followers of Islam today.

If you look at the history of the beginnings of the Bahá'í Faith you will see that most of the early believers were sincere followers of Islam who accepted the Bahá'u'lláh as the Promised One. Their beliefs led them to Him.

There are lots of sects of Islam in the world today and I don't pretend to know much about them but it is clear that they are quite diverse in their interpretation of the Qu'ran.

There is also a lot of negative coverage in the media about Islam and some of this seems to demonize this religion in an unfair way. I personally find it quite hard on TV news reports when the shout of "Allah u akbar" is accompanied by the sound of machine gun fire. I know that if I had not learned about Islam through the Bahá'í Faith, this may cause me to draw some hasty conclusions.

You will probably be aware that equality of men and women is seen as necessary for the progress of humankind within the Bahá'í Faith.

"The sixth principle of Bahá'u'lláh regards the equality of men and women. The male and female of the human kingdom are equal before God. God is no respecter of gender. Whosoever practices more faith, whosoever practices more humanitarianism is nearer to God; but between the male and female there is no innate difference because they share in common all the faculties. The world of humanity has two wings, one the male; the other the female. When both wings are reinforced with the same impulse the bird will be enabled to wing its flight heavenward to the summit of progress. Woman must be given the same opportunities as man for perfecting herself in the attainments of learning, science and arts. God has created the man and the woman equal, why should she be deprived of exercising the fullest opportunities afforded by life? Why should we ever raise the question of superiority and inferiority? In the animal kingdom the male and female enjoy suffrage and in the vegetable kingdom the plants all enjoy equal suffrage. In the human kingdom, which claims to be the realm of brotherhood and solidarity, why should we raise this question?"

(Compilations, Baha'i Scriptures, p. 277)

armin

You've gotten the answer, and it is yes. Just like CP said we believe, and it is rather obvious, that mankind has influenced God's religion and a great part of the problems are because of that; some are because the time of those religions has passed and they don't fit well with today's world and civilization.

I'd say focus more on the Baha'i faith rather than seeing it as an offshoot of Islam. The abundance of our holy writings is unmatched. I've no doubt you'll find all your answers in the writings. Good luck with your search and feel free to ask any other questions you might have

Rani

Baha'is believe that the social teachings of Islam were appropriate for that time -for that era. That is what progressive revelation is all about.

That is, that God sent His Messengers at different intervals and to different regions of the world (obviously we were less connected by transport and technological communication ), and that the spiritual teachings always held true, but that some of the social teachings differed according to the specific circumstances and needs of the people of that age or culture.

As I understand, before Mohammed came, the tribes of the land who Mohammed lived amongst were living like barbarians, and girl children were treated as property of not much value, sometimes even buried alive -from what I've read. So, when Mohammed came He actually raised the status of women for that time. Perhaps it would have been too much of a shock to the peoples and impossible to achieve full equal status for women (had it been demanded) during that period. It's like mankind matures in baby steps. ;-

But the time for full equality has come for this age.

So while we accept Mohammed as a Manifestation of God, we focus on the teachings that Baha'u'llah has brought as they are applicable for this age.

There is much beauty in the Koran however, and I kind of came to learn about the Baha'i Faith after reading a book with extracts of the Koran. I was struck by its beauty, and I remember feeling that it was like reading the Bible as it has that same Divine essence.

But by luck and by chance, or even divine intervention (!), I happened across the Baha'i Faith in an encyclopaedia only a couple of weeks later, and when the entry talked about the Faith's recognition and acceptance of all the Prophets and Manifestations of God of the major religions, it really turned on a light for me.

Maybe I shouldn't add this last bit, but.. (and ) No doubt there are many beautiful and sincere muslims, but I am sorry to say that the only time I have ever had a person react quite angrily at hearing that I was a member of the Baha'i Faith, was when I was introduced as a baha'i to a muslim man. I mean some Christians might not like it, but they've never responded with anger in my personal experience.

InvestigateTruth

Yes, the Baha'is accept Quran and Muhammad true from God. But the Baha'i writings teach progressive revelation. Every Prophet talked to people according to the level of understanding of the people in His time. People living in a new age, have developed better level of understanding and capable of accepting better social laws, and the new Manifestation of God, teaches accordingly. Thus, although Baha'is believe that Quran is from God, they believe that, the laws in Quran was ordained to last for 1000 years, untill the appearance of the Baha'i Faith.
The Manifestation of God is like the all-knowing teacher. To the first grade children, he talks according to their ability to understand and accept. But to the university student he talks more advanced. If we consider humanity as a child that has been growing, then the Manifestation of God appeares in every age, as humanity progress.

arthra

Good question 4ourbest outcome...

You ask:

So I guess in a nutshell, to be Baha'i, must I accept the Qu'ran and Islam?

As above the answer is yes.. We accept that the revelation of Islam had a Source which is the same Source for the Bible. the Gita, the Gaths..

Do we accept the social teachings or regulations of Islam?

No...

Baha'u'llah struck "holy war" or Jihad from the Book

And yet again in another connection: "Beware lest ye shed the blood of any one. Unsheathe the sword of your tongue from the scabbard of utterance, for therewith ye can conquer the citadels of men's hearts. We have abolished the law to wage holy war against each other. God's mercy hath, verily, encompassed all created things, if ye do but understand."

And yet again in another connection: "O people! Spread not disorder in the land, and shed not the blood of any one, and consume not the substance of others wrongfully, neither follow every accursed prattler."

~ Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 25



Baha'is believe men and women are equal...

Ninth: Bahá'u'lláh emphasized and established the equality of man and woman. Sex is not particularized to humanity; it exists throughout the animate kingdoms but without distinction or preference. In the vegetable kingdom there is complete equality between male and female of species. Likewise in the animal plane equality exists; all are under the protection of God. Is it becoming to man that he, the noblest of creatures, should observe and insist upon such distinction? Woman's lack of progress and proficiency has been due to her need of equal education and opportunity. Had she been allowed this equality there is no doubt she would be the counterpart of man in ability and capacity. The happiness of mankind will be realized when women and men coordinate and advance equally, for each is the complement and helpmeet of the other.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith, p. 241

There are also many laws of Islam that have been abrogated mentioned in the Most Holy Book or Kitab-i-Aqdas.

MichaelAW

Hi 4OBOC,

Welcome to B. Forums!

A fundamental teaching is that there are people in the past that were like Baha'u'llah. Who were utilized by God to give us information. That information may have been specific to that particular time, to the capabilities of mankind at those times and the lack of education to comprehend what was taught.

Each successive contact gave information that gave as much information as God felt we could handle during those times.

So, must you accept Islam. It's depends upon how you mean that, "accept Islam".

Normally when one accepts Islam, then one has come to a place where they are willing to believe what is written in the Quaran and no where else.

If you follow the newest teaching (through Baha'u'llah) from God you eventually should learn that the past teachings, well, some of the older teachings were eliminated. There are brand new teachings, and perhaps some older teachings were added to. All due to the current abilities of mankind and better education levels, and a growth in maturity overall as a group of peoples.

So, must you follow Islam in the conventional sense, no. You do accept that the Quaran was from God and it is acceptable to read and learn from it as long as you understand that some of it may be obsolete as well as the Torah and the New Testament. You are encouraged to read and study all sorts of past beliefs as well as scientific papers!

You must accept that God issued past teachings and will continue to add to teachings in the future, that God will teach us as a whole, as a group of people, you may say, generic teachings. That some of us will not be able to understand most of the teachings, some will do well with new teachings as far as understanding and some may have an advanced understanding of God desires for us.

PS: The Old Testament is the Jewish Torah (Bible). Jesus studied the Torah and there was no New Testament in his lifetime.

Michaelaw

4ourbestoutcome

Thanks everybody. It would be too many posts to address all separate, but keep the feedback coming please!I sure know the OT is the Jewish Torah, and then in the NT, the Christians say that Jesus fulfilled the OT, so OT is not followed,though I see many Chrisitians quote Psalms and Proverbs. I definitely agree with some of the rather obsolete thinking, like animal sacrifices, stonings, etc needing to be right on out of there. (right now I'm just referring to the OT and NT from Judeo-Christian history as I know a bit more about it, though hardly am any expert). So I am being fair in that since technically my ancestry is about 3/4 from R.Catholicism, culturally the Christian spin would be where many Americans are first introduced too. I wasn't raised though as anything which is another whole story, but culturally being a born American, it still permeates toward the Christian end of things. (though some Christians might refute RC as being truly "Christian")
So what does Baha'i think of the Christian deal? Even as a former Christian, I regard Jesus as a prophet who would be appalled at the judgmental acts done in his name. I believe he was crucified as was common back then.
And about Baha'i: it does address an issue I have of religion-it's a baby religion, much more modern as I often wondered why there aren't also messengers and prophets that aren't 2000 years old, and of course beyond, like Hinduism being old, and again, not knowing worlds about it but liking some of its aspects, I don't like that there are still castes for Indian born Hindus.
So I like that Baha'i is progressive!

MichaelAW

It is acknowledged that there are known and unknown Manifestations/Prophets going back in time.

Rather than thinking of the Baha'i Faith as a baby religion, think it is the current edition or new chapter in the ongoing process of God teaching us.

One analogy I use is each Manifestation/Prophet was like a teacher over different grades, Kindergarten through Phd, as humanity grows, it goes into different advanced grades in school.

We may be in 3rd grade currently, ha, ha!

Jesus is considered as the same as Baha'u'llah, or Moses or Abraham or Muhammad, they were given the honor and ordeal of being Gods messengers in the world.

Regards,
Michaelaw

BruceDLimber

Quote:

Originally Posted by MichaelAW The Old Testament is the Jewish Torah (Bible).

Inaccurate.

The Torah is only the first five books of the Old Testament.

The entire Jewish scriptures are known as the TANACH (this being an acronym I don't know offhand save that the "T" is for "Torah").

Peace, :-)

Bruce

MichaelAW

thanks for the additional Bruce! I didn't know that!
Michaelaw

4ourbestoutcome

Tsk tsk on me too. I grew up around many Jewish people and been to a couple bar mitzvahs, and knew the Torah was the first 5 and if I work at it, I could name them in order too from memory, but see how out of sync I am now for not even catching that! Anyhow, I like the apt description of new chapter/current edition to describe Baha'i.