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Old 07-02-2015, 11:06 AM   #1
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We, People

some people believe that in this age human being has stood on the summits of progression, culture and science. we see feminists fight for women rights, homosexuals fight for their own rights, scientists discovering a new thing everyday with many people believing that science can now provide good, enough answers to explain everything about life. we see people bluffing about kindness and about being kind to everybody and to nature.
but where we humans have stood in reality at this point of time, is maybe not as high and elegant as we think.
I just watched (by chance) a short video somewhere. it was filming the process of skinning animals (alligators) to make bags, watches, purse and shoes out of them and it was SO EXTREMELY painful that now i see everywhere as red and i can smell the blood even though I had never been into such a place. it was so cruel, so cruel.
where we believe we are standing in our imaginations is different from where we are standing in reality. in reality, we are not good people yet. I don't think science has made us to have a kinder spirit; it had not widen our point of view towards the spirituality of life. we still have wars on ridiculous things and we still fight for unimportant matters.
but it is time to be aware of ourselves. it is the new cycle, the new era and we as Baha'is have the responsibility to behave as best as we can. to act consciously in the direction of God because that is the ONLY direction which will free the world from its present catastrophic state.
May God help us all....

“This is the Day in which God's most excellent favors have been
poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath
been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the
peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect
unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care
and loving-kindness.”
GLEANINGS FROM THE WRITINGS OF BAHÁ’U’LLÁH, P. 6

Last edited by maryamr; 07-02-2015 at 11:30 AM.
 
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Old 07-02-2015, 12:56 PM   #2
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I agree basically

Quote:
Originally Posted by maryamr View Post
some people believe that in this age human being has stood on the summits of progression, culture and science. we see feminists fight for women rights, homosexuals fight for their own rights, scientists discovering a new thing everyday with many people believing that science can now provide good, enough answers to explain everything about life. we see people bluffing about kindness and about being kind to everybody and to nature.
but where we humans have stood in reality at this point of time, is maybe not as high and elegant as we think.
I just watched (by chance) a short video somewhere. it was filming the process of skinning animals (alligators) to make bags, watches, purse and shoes out of them and it was SO EXTREMELY painful that now i see everywhere as red and i can smell the blood even though I had never been into such a place. it was so cruel, so cruel.
where we believe we are standing in our imaginations is different from where we are standing in reality. in reality, we are not good people yet. I don't think science has made us to have a kinder spirit; it had not widen our point of view towards the spirituality of life. we still have wars on ridiculous things and we still fight for unimportant matters.
but it is time to be aware of ourselves. it is the new cycle, the new era and we as Baha'is have the responsibility to behave as best as we can. to act consciously in the direction of God because that is the ONLY direction which will free the world from its present catastrophic state.
May God help us all....

“This is the Day in which God's most excellent favors have been
poured out upon men, the Day in which His most mighty grace hath
been infused into all created things. It is incumbent upon all the
peoples of the world to reconcile their differences, and, with perfect
unity and peace, abide beneath the shadow of the Tree of His care
and loving-kindness.”
GLEANINGS FROM THE WRITINGS OF BAHÁ’U’LLÁH, P. 6
Dearest friend, basically agree with you, we have not greatly advanced, but then I feel that after 1 thousand years of the time of Baha'u'llah we may have.
As for the killing of animals for meat, at this time we are not forbidden (sigh I like my meat). I was brought up on a farm, were I was taught to kill and prepare our meat, I can imagine a city person who is sensitive, not wishing to see where their lamb chops come from. But it is part of life, who does not prefer leather shoes, instead of plastic ones?

loving regards
bill
 
Old 07-02-2015, 01:06 PM   #3
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
Dearest friend, basically agree with you, we have not greatly advanced, but then I feel that after 1 thousand years of the time of Baha'u'llah we may have.
As for the killing of animals for meat, at this time we are not forbidden (sigh I like my meat). I was brought up on a farm, were I was taught to kill and prepare our meat, I can imagine a city person who is sensitive, not wishing to see where their lamb chops come from. But it is part of life, who does not prefer leather shoes, instead of plastic ones?

loving regards
bill
Dear Bill - Good to see you here

I have managed to give up red meat, we also had farm meat at on time!

Yes we have a long way to go to learn to live within Gods System in complete Unity with it.

But we are to try, little by Little Day by Day and hopefully one day in leaps and Bounds

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 07-02-2015, 01:14 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryamr View Post
I just watched (by chance) a short video somewhere. it was filming the process of skinning animals (alligators) to make bags, watches, purse and shoes out of them
But, honestly, whenever I see an alligator, I think "There goes a good handbag". As long as it's dead when it's skinned, I find it ok.

Sorry, Maryam, you're so kind, but that's really what I think.

gnat
 
Old 07-02-2015, 04:48 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
But, honestly, whenever I see an alligator, I think "There goes a good handbag". As long as it's dead when it's skinned, I find it ok.

Sorry, Maryam, you're so kind, but that's really what I think.

gnat
Fox hunting on horseback was once described as "....the unspeakable in pursuit of the inedible ". I don't have a problem with people hunting or shooting so long as the game is then eaten. Nor do I have a problem with indigenous peoples hunting animals for skins to wear or to use as protection against the elements. What I despise is the killing of creatures simply out of blood lust. Ps, I find it amusing when someone claims to be veggie but wears leather shoes and belts!
 
Old 07-02-2015, 09:54 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
But, honestly, whenever I see an alligator, I think "There goes a good handbag". As long as it's dead when it's skinned, I find it ok.

Sorry, Maryam, you're so kind, but that's really what I think.

gnat
Nature and Nurture can also play a big roll in the "Norm" for a person.

I have a good lady friend who spent many years in remote Australia living on tropical Rivers whose Husband was a Fair Dinkum Crocodile Hunter.

Her job was to skin, prepare and Tan the hides of the crocodiles and sell the produce for income. All her Kids also brought up in this environment and would have no issue with what they did.

Was not that long ago since they stopped this in Australia. Now all Farmed, but same result!

Our world has a long way to go to find the balance on all these issues.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 07-02-2015, 10:08 PM   #7
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I am happy Bill to see you here and thank you everybody for your answers.
I have no problem with "eating" meat because if I don't eat meat, I eat vegetables and fruits which are as alive as animals; only that vegetables don't have blood(I hope someday i can be a vegetarian because eating vegetables is more healthy). and i have leather shoe but the leather shoes and cloths in Iran are made from sheep and cow skin. so the animal is killed, the meat is eaten and the skin is used. but we won't die if we don't have an alligator skin shoe or bag! it is (to me) only the want of more luxury in life which i disagree with. when we kill a cow and then skin it, it won't suffer but the alligators I saw were moving when they were being skinned. and even without that , why not using wool cloths and cotton and etc. ? in my personal opinion animals have the right to live as much as we do and we should ONLY hunt them if we really want to eat, not just for luxury.
yet the topic is waster than the talk of animals. when i look carefully it seems as though nothing in the world is in its place. we have big chaos everywhere. that is the sad part. is the chaos, a prerequisite of calmness? the storm before calm? I hope so ...
 
Old 07-02-2015, 10:25 PM   #8
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryamr View Post
I am happy Bill to see you here and thank you everybody for your answers.

when i look carefully it seems as though nothing in the world is in its place. we have big chaos everywhere. that is the sad part. is the chaos, a prerequisite of calmness? the storm before calm? I hope so ...
Dear Maramr - Yes great to see our Bill Post We wish Him and Vicky all the best of Happiness and Life in Faith.

Yes the World is reaching the tipping point, it is far from its balance and is now toppling on the crevice, soon to be totally unbalanced and fall.

We will then pick it all up and implement what should be, thus the chaos is feeding the remedial actions. It is hard to see the good in the Chaos, the seven valleys and the four valleys have the story that explains this.

God bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 07-02-2015, 10:32 PM   #9
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in Baha'i writings is there any mentioning of Iran being completely deserted and destroyed before it can rise up again?
 
Old 07-02-2015, 10:50 PM   #10
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryamr View Post
in Baha'i writings is there any mentioning of Iran being completely deserted and destroyed before it can rise up again?
This page has a couple of quotes - Baha'i Quotes Syndication Service: Birth of Baha'u'llah and the Future of Iran

"Let nothing grieve thee, O Land of Ta*, for God hath chosen thee to be the source of the joy of all mankind. He shall, if it be His Will, bless thy throne with one who will rule with justice, who will gather together the flock of God which the wolves have scattered. Such a ruler will, with joy and gladness, turn his face towards, and extend his favours unto, the people of Baha. He indeed is accounted in the sight of God as a jewel among men. Upon him rest forever the glory of God and the glory of all that dwell in the kingdom of His revelation".

Regards Tony
 
Old 07-02-2015, 11:02 PM   #11
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I'm a paleo-vegetarian and follow the Rastafari diet of ital and raw foods.
 
Old 07-02-2015, 11:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryamr View Post
in Baha'i writings is there any mentioning of Iran being completely deserted and destroyed before it can rise up again?
Oh, we are in that kind of mood today. No, as far as I know, that fate is reserved to my part of the world, according to pilgrim notes.

gnat

P. S. If we ever meet, would you be content with an imitated crocodile handbag?

And, by the way, skinning animals alive is beyond words. Seen that done to get furs from cats and dogs as well.
 
Old 07-03-2015, 12:47 AM   #13
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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We people - A reflection in verse

Maryamr - For you, this is what we are

To remove the veils

Oh My Creator, my Love my aim,
my Passion, my service my pain.
My heart sings for a glimpse of thee,
lonely, languishing, longing to be set free.
What am I, that this longing be?
What am I, that I cannot see?

Graciously molded from water and clay,
Given heart and Spirit, must find the way,
to remove the veils of an errant day.
placed by self content by worldly sway.

Forgiven, Gifted and blessed by thee
You stand within, so close to me.
Why do I veil myself there from?
Why do I shut the doors there on?

Graciously molded from water and clay,
Given heart and Spirit, must find the way,
to remove the veils of an errant day.
placed by self, content by worldly sway.

I now pray to Thee, God of all humanity,
that we understand what it is to be free,
free to willingly remove the myriad Veils,
preventing transformation on a worldly scale,
yearning from within, may thee now shine,
resplendent unhindered proof of the divine.

T Bristow-Stagg
Mercy 10, BE 172 (3rd July 2015)

God Bless your Journey - Regards Tony
 
Old 07-03-2015, 06:27 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfish58 View Post
Maryamr - For you, this is what we are

To remove the veils

Oh My Creator, my Love my aim,
my Passion, my service my pain.
My heart sings for a glimpse of thee,
lonely, languishing, longing to be set free.
What am I, that this longing be?
What am I, that I cannot see?

Graciously molded from water and clay,
Given heart and Spirit, must find the way,
to remove the veils of an errant day.
placed by self content by worldly sway.

Forgiven, Gifted and blessed by thee
You stand within, so close to me.
Why do I veil myself there from?
Why do I shut the doors there on?

Graciously molded from water and clay,
Given heart and Spirit, must find the way,
to remove the veils of an errant day.
placed by self, content by worldly sway.

I now pray to Thee, God of all humanity,
that we understand what it is to be free,
free to willingly remove the myriad Veils,
preventing transformation on a worldly scale,
yearning from within, may thee now shine,
resplendent unhindered proof of the divine.

T Bristow-Stagg
Mercy 10, BE 172 (3rd July 2015)

God Bless your Journey - Regards Tony
it is a wonderful poem; thank you soooo much
 
Old 07-03-2015, 06:30 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
Oh, we are in that kind of mood today. No, as far as I know, that fate is reserved to my part of the world, according to pilgrim notes.

gnat

P. S. If we ever meet, would you be content with an imitated crocodile handbag?

And, by the way, skinning animals alive is beyond words. Seen that done to get furs from cats and dogs as well.
haha! I won't even use an imitated crocodile handbag! i don't like that kind of rough skin, creepy!
 
Old 07-03-2015, 07:08 AM   #16
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If I tried to write like Tony,
I would end up like a phony.
That dear Fish is fond of diving,
Down to depths beyond my striving.

I was glad to cause some smiles,
After mourning crocodiles.

gnat
 
Old 07-03-2015, 10:26 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryamr View Post
but the alligators I saw were moving when they were being skinned.
Even though the alligator may have been moving, I doubt very much if it was alive or in pain. If you've ever been fishing you know that a fish may continue to move even after you've cut off its head. The biggest danger to alligators right now are not humans but pythons which have been introduced into Florida as an invasive species. I agree that alligators should not be killed solely for their leather, but as someone who lives in the deep South I can tell you alligator meat, if prepared properly, is quite tasty. And frankly I have an easier time identifying with a lamb than I do an alligator. And pigs are said to be as smart as dogs. The harvesting of alligators is tightly controlled and right now there is no shortage of them.

P.S. I since did some checking and there are some unscrupulous alligator farmers who are not bothering to insure their animals are killed in a humane manner before they are skinned. That's unconscionable and needs to be outlawed.

Last edited by smaneck; 07-03-2015 at 10:34 AM.
 
Old 07-03-2015, 12:00 PM   #18
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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From: Normanton Far North Queensland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
If I tried to write like Tony,
I would end up like a phony.
That dear Fish is fond of diving,
Down to depths beyond my striving.

I was glad to cause some smiles,
After mourning crocodiles.

gnat


Not true dear friend, before you got your wings you were immersed in great waters, to be again, you must return and swim.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 07-03-2015, 03:02 PM   #19
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From: Jackson, MS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfish58 View Post


Not true dear friend, before you got your wings you were immersed in great waters, to be again, you must return and swim.

God Bless and Regards Tony
No, no. Gnats are supposed to become eagles.
 
Old 07-03-2015, 03:06 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by smaneck View Post
No, no. Gnats are supposed to become eagles.
We know that, but after many years of hoping we are reconciled with the gnat station.

gnat

P.S. But now we have derailed the thread. It was started by that hatching eagle Maryam, who was pondering our pitiful human condition.

Last edited by gnat; 07-03-2015 at 03:11 PM.
 
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