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Old 10-01-2016, 12:52 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by AidanK View Post
Thanks Jan my favourite Viking marauder and number one Abba fan
Abba - do people still remember them? There were times when, wherever you travelled, you heard them from the loudspeakers. Nowadays, my ears are at rest - they no longer have to listen to Abba. Once, just out of curiosity, I listened through a whole Abba record - that was in the 70s. That was quite enough. :-)

As to the Vikings - the less they are talked about the better. An Arabic witness called them the filthiest people on earth. And then I don't even mention their funeral ceremonies! Yuk!

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Old 10-02-2016, 02:50 AM   #42
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I believe that Satan is (as Bahaullah has mentioned) the absence of light. if I am to elaborate I can say, satan is the absence of true understanding in fact. I say from what I have read in Bahai texts AND from my own experience that I am going to tell you now:

for some years I lived in another city apart from my family. I lived in a veryyyyy big house and a complete floor of the house was given to me, only me. there was bizarre things said about the place by other people. some people would tell me that they had seen BAD SPIRITS in that house, and that fishy things would go on there sometimes. then I started to FEEL those things that people were talking about.

for example at nights when I had to go to wash my teeth and then had to go back to my room, I would ran the whole distance because I really felt someone was behind me trying to grab my throat. in my room also I could hear (at nights) strange voices; one of them for example sounded like an "electricity cable". I had very bad, gory and strange dreams almost all nights and I could no more breath easily in that room.
then I talked about these happenings, voices and strange things with someone who was one of the leaders of a sect newly formed in Iran which is called "The Ring". they are into exorcism and they believe that almost all people who have strange bad dreams or hear voices are kind of possessed. that woman said to me that Satanic beings are trying to possess me; that for example the sound of electricity wire while there are no real wires is a sign, etc... she tried to heal me and it got worse- I went nearly completely mad. I cannot forget how terribly frightening were those days.

then I came back to my own city. I got familiar with Bahai faith at time when I was dying of fear of being possessed. I learnt that Satan is the absence of light; that devil is a characteristic of human. then guess what? as soon as the "Light" of knowledge shone, ALLLLL those horrible things stopped; all at once. I would no more hear voices, I would no more feel someone was standing behind me.

If Satan was real, he could still do the same things even after I found Bahai faith. he could continue until I killed myself. but it stopped all at once.

now from my own experience I think those who are believed to be possessed are lacking a kind of special light. this light cannot reach them by being merely scientists or by scientifically analyzing the matters; science is not the kind of light which is spoken about. only the light from a Higher truth can help and THIS is what is missing in almost all people.

you can go ask Bahais- those who have been bahais for many years (like 40) now and have very strong, correct beliefs- we can ask them if they have ever been "possessed" or "hurt" by satan (satan as an entity)? I am sure there are no examples of such things going on out there.

(sorry for the long comment)

Last edited by maryamr; 10-02-2016 at 02:56 AM.
 
Old 10-02-2016, 01:20 PM   #43
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suggestions to the mind

Quote:
Originally Posted by maryamr View Post
I believe that Satan is (as Bahaullah has mentioned) the absence of light. if I am to elaborate I can say, satan is the absence of true understanding in fact. I say from what I have read in Bahai texts AND from my own experience that I am going to tell you now:

for some years I lived in another city apart from my family. I lived in a veryyyyy big house and a complete floor of the house was given to me, only me. there was bizarre things said about the place by other people. some people would tell me that they had seen BAD SPIRITS in that house, and that fishy things would go on there sometimes. then I started to FEEL those things that people were talking about.

for example at nights when I had to go to wash my teeth and then had to go back to my room, I would ran the whole distance because I really felt someone was behind me trying to grab my throat. in my room also I could hear (at nights) strange voices; one of them for example sounded like an "electricity cable". I had very bad, gory and strange dreams almost all nights and I could no more breath easily in that room.
then I talked about these happenings, voices and strange things with someone who was one of the leaders of a sect newly formed in Iran which is called "The Ring". they are into exorcism and they believe that almost all people who have strange bad dreams or hear voices are kind of possessed. that woman said to me that Satanic beings are trying to possess me; that for example the sound of electricity wire while there are no real wires is a sign, etc... she tried to heal me and it got worse- I went nearly completely mad. I cannot forget how terribly frightening were those days.

then I came back to my own city. I got familiar with Bahai faith at time when I was dying of fear of being possessed. I learnt that Satan is the absence of light; that devil is a characteristic of human. then guess what? as soon as the "Light" of knowledge shone, ALLLLL those horrible things stopped; all at once. I would no more hear voices, I would no more feel someone was standing behind me.

If Satan was real, he could still do the same things even after I found Bahai faith. he could continue until I killed myself. but it stopped all at once.

now from my own experience I think those who are believed to be possessed are lacking a kind of special light. this light cannot reach them by being merely scientists or by scientifically analyzing the matters; science is not the kind of light which is spoken about. only the light from a Higher truth can help and THIS is what is missing in almost all people.

you can go ask Bahais- those who have been bahais for many years (like 40) now and have very strong, correct beliefs- we can ask them if they have ever been "possessed" or "hurt" by satan (satan as an entity)? I am sure there are no examples of such things going on out there.

(sorry for the long comment)
Dearest sister Maryamr What you have written is a perfect description of the power of suggestion, these bad things people say such as the covenant breakers, if you think upon these things without a defence of the words of Baha'u'llah can be very dangerous. they can lead to very dangerous changes to the mind. The only medicine is the words of Baha, how lucky you are dear sister, you are a blessing to all in this forum.
bill
 
Old 10-02-2016, 11:43 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by BlinkeyBill View Post
Dearest sister Maryamr What you have written is a perfect description of the power of suggestion, these bad things people say such as the covenant breakers, if you think upon these things without a defence of the words of Baha'u'llah can be very dangerous. they can lead to very dangerous changes to the mind. The only medicine is the words of Baha, how lucky you are dear sister, you are a blessing to all in this forum.
bill
thank you so much dear Bill
yes I was lucky that I could finally escape that horrible snare. the good thing is that I experienced it myself and now I can feel the power of Light of Bahai revelation very clearly.
thank you again.... I had missed your comments by the way. wish you are fine
 
Old 10-03-2016, 06:32 AM   #45
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Greetings Aiden,

The mindset and philosophy of former beliefs remain very strong for first generation believers. This means that the essence of the Catholic approach to viewing and rationalising the world will naturally remain within you. There is nothing wrong with this because it reflects the way you were raised. It is a component of the character you inherited from your parents. 'Abdu'l-Bahá explained that there are three components to a person's character, the innate, inherited and acquired. A person can only be in control of their acquired character. Exactly the same is true for everyone else. This is why each subsequent generation of children born to genuine and sincere Bahá'ís, inherit a greater portion of Bahá'í values. They see the world in very different terms from first generation believers. However, they will never know the challenge of personally discovering the Manifestation of the Age for themselves.

As an insight, Christopher Buck faced similar challenges as yourself over some of the issues you have raised. He has published his insights in a short article on the website bahaiteachings. You can read the article here Satan

The history of the believers contain many remarkable stories. They serve as landmarks for understanding how the Bahá'í Community develops and evolves. For instance, when some people experience issues with Bahá'ís, the Administrative Order or the Bahá'í Writings, the argument needs to be viewed in context. Namely it is a mistake to assume that people can instantly free themselves from their inherited character just because they have embraced a new religion. It takes generations to bring about substantial spiritual change. In this respect we have not developed a genuine and coherent Bahá'í consciousness at this time. All we have is a series of diverse former beliefs sewn together with elements of the teachings to make a patchwork quilt. It does not matter from what our clothe is cut from or what it has pictured on it. For it is just as valuable as everyone else's because it contributes to the whole.

Never concern yourself over any conflicts between Catholic or Bahá'í values because there is room for both in your personal belief. One is your spiritual heritage the other is your spiritual destiny. This is why all peoples beliefs are unique to themselves. When you finally ascend to the Abhá Kingdom may the stairwell be lined with Catholics applauding you for being among the faithful.

The dominant spiritual heritage of western believers in the English speaking world is Protestantism. The Protestant mindset approaches the Bahá'í Faith in fundamentally different terms to yourself. This is why if you really want a good discussion on this topic then you need to either connect with people who can grasp the subtle nuances of the language you have used here or spend some time in states that are home to the Catholic Faith. Protestants tend to be attracted to ideas and logic more than faith. There is nothing wrong with this because this is part of their inherited character.

In time, more and more new believers, especially from Catholic backgrounds, will join in with discussions like you have offered here - probably on dedicated Bahá'í channels. So it is good to understand that you are not alone in your thinking and there is no shame in holding personal beliefs and looking for guidance in such matters. Within the British Isles there was a former Catholic monk - John Butler if I recall his name correctly. He held many unique insights into the Bahá'í Faith. Try to see if you can invite him to Belfast if he is still with us in this mortal world - you will not regret it.

Earth

Last edited by Earth; 10-03-2016 at 05:02 PM. Reason: Typo error - Thanks to Gnat for pointing it out.
 
Old 10-03-2016, 07:37 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Earth View Post
Greetings Aiden,

The mindset and philosophy of former beliefs remain very strong for first generation believers.

[...]

Earth
Good points, Earth. There's just one detail. Are you sure about the "subtle nuisances of the language"? Although I could subscribe to that, I strongly suspect that you were thinking of "nuances".

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Old 10-03-2016, 12:40 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by AidanK View Post
It's satanic influences that makes one human enjoy inflicting pain on another and which makes such abhorrent actions attractive even fulfilling for the doer
Quote:
Originally Posted by AidanK View Post
It's satanic influences
That tricky devil!! I bet he's also the one that makes my tea too hot to drink sometimes!!

I don't get why it has to be the devil in your worldview.

Let me explain my reasoning:

If one of God's creations, Satan, is capable of "making abhorrent actions attractive or fulfilling for the doer".

Then logically, the other beings in God's creations should have the ability to do this too.

Thus, unless God has given the Devil more power or freedom than any other being on this planet (a ludicrous assertion that beggars for proof), one must come to the conclusion that human beings are quite capable of making "such abhorrent actions attractive even fulfilling for the doer" as well.

If God made an angel able to do this thing he must have made mankind able as well.

And so in conclusion, a person's twisted worldview can logically be the product of themselves, no external diabolic influence is necessary. This must be the truth unless one asserts that God permits the devil more power or freedom than he does humans.

((Afterthought: And if God did make Satan possessing more power or freedom then humans, the whole narrative of Satan's story collapses. After all, if God made Angel superior to Man, then the Devil would have never had a reason to rebel. The narrative of Satan specifically implies man is mightier than angel, as that is the entire cause of Satan's jealousy of mankind. TL;DR: The Devil can't have power or influence or else his entire reason for rebellion doesn't follow. He is necessarily powerless for his narrative and motives to be rational.))

Last edited by Walrus; 10-03-2016 at 12:47 PM.
 
Old 10-03-2016, 01:51 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth View Post
Greetings Aiden,

The mindset and philosophy of former beliefs remain very strong for first generation believers. This means that the essence of the Catholic approach to viewing and rationalising the world will naturally remain within you. There is nothing wrong with this because it reflects the way you were raised. It is a component of the character you inherited from your parents. 'Abdu'l-Bahá explained that there are three components to a person's character, the innate, inherited and acquired. A person can only be in control of their acquired character. Exactly the same is true for everyone else. This is why each subsequent generation of children born to genuine and sincere Bahá'ís, inherit a greater portion of Bahá'í values. They see the world in very different terms from first generation believers. However, they will never know the challenge of personally discovering the Manifestation of the Age for themselves.

As an insight, Christopher Buck faced similar challenges as yourself over some of the issues you have raised. He has published his insights in a short article on the website bahaiteachings. You can read the article here Satan

The history of the believers contain many remarkable stories. They serve as landmarks for understanding how the Bahá'í Community develops and evolves. For instance, when some people experience issues with Bahá'ís, the Administrative Order or the Bahá'í Writings, the argument needs to be viewed in context. Namely it is a mistake to assume that people can instantly free themselves from their inherited character just because they have embraced a new religion. It takes generations to bring about substantial spiritual change. In this respect we have not developed a genuine and coherent Bahá'í consciousness at this time. All we have is a series of diverse former beliefs sewn together with elements of the teachings to make a patchwork quilt. It does not matter from what our clothe is cut from or what it has pictured on it. For it is just as valuable as everyone else's because it contributes to the whole.

Never concern yourself over any conflicts between Catholic or Bahá'í values because there is room for both in your personal belief. One is your spiritual heritage the other is your spiritual destiny. This is why all peoples beliefs are unique to themselves. When you finally ascend to the Abhá Kingdom may the stairwell be lined with Catholics applauding you for being among the faithful.

The dominant spiritual heritage of western believers in the English speaking world is Protestantism. The Protestant mindset approaches the Bahá'í Faith in fundamentally different terms to yourself. This is why if you really want a good discussion on this topic then you need to either connect with people who can grasp the subtle nuisances of the language you have used here or spend some time in states that are home to the Catholic Faith. Protestants tend to be attracted to ideas and logic more than faith. There is nothing wrong with this because this is part of their inherited character.

In time, more and more new believers, especially from Catholic backgrounds, will join in with discussions like you have offered here - probably on dedicated Bahá'í channels. So it is good to understand that you are not alone in your thinking and there is no shame in holding personal beliefs and looking for guidance in such matters. Within the British Isles there was a former Catholic monk - John Butler if I recall his name correctly. He held many unique insights into the Bahá'í Faith. Try to see if you can invite him to Belfast if he is still with us in this mortal world - you will not regret it.

Earth
I thank you for this brother Earth. For over forty years I've been Roman Catholic, the son of Roman Catholic parents and grandparents, went to Roman Catholic school and then to Roman Catholic seminary for three years. And I thank God and Lord Jesus for all of it. It was Roman Catholicism that raised me in a spirit of faith and morals. If I struggle with being a Baha'i, at least I'm trying
 
Old 10-03-2016, 05:08 PM   #49
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Greetings Aiden,

You're very welcome. I'm glad it helped to put this matter into context for you.

Earth

---


Greetings Gnat,

Glad it helped too.

Thanks for pointing out my typo error. It has now been corrected.

Earth
 
Old 10-03-2016, 05:17 PM   #50
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AidanK, try to read Bible. It's very simple advice, people want to translation of something, cause Catholic Church is far from Bible and is not true Christianity. I am not Catholic cause I do not worship Jesus but I Recognize him as God Almighty (not semi God), please Father and he reveal you right way. Jesus worship only Father, only Father can help you

Last edited by Babism; 10-03-2016 at 05:22 PM.
 
Old 10-04-2016, 01:02 AM   #51
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Memo

Greetings Aiden

I have just recalled another person living in the British Isles who you may find interesting to meet. This is Khazeh Fananapazir. He has a Persian heritage and one of his ancestors was a Bábí who fought in Fort Tabarsi. So he has a prestigious pedigree. He was educated through the Catholic education system in the United Kingdom and because of this he has a great love for Catholics along with some unique approaches towards appreciating the values of both Bahá'ís and Catholics alike. Indeed he has an intoxicating enthusiasm both both beliefs. He has also written a few papers.

May you continue to hold the precious values that you have acquired and continue to put them to good use, confident in the fact that mature Bahá'ís are comfortable placing their children into the care of Catholics to be educated.

Your spiritual brother,
Earth
 
Old 10-04-2016, 08:27 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
I am not Catholic cause I do not worship Jesus but I Recognize him as God Almighty (not semi God)
From one of your recent emails to me:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
Jesus claimed be God and man (but not incarnated God)
I worship Jesus like Father, because they are" unity"
I am very confused by you Paweł.

Perhaps you are currently in a state where your beliefs are in flux?? It's really hard to pin down exactly what it is you are saying about your beliefs since they often directly contradict and you don't answer questions. My guess would be your in a state of figuring things out for yourself.

Good luck with your ever-shifting beliefs!!
 
Old 10-04-2016, 09:50 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
I do not worship Jesus but I Recognize him as God Almighty (not semi God), please Father
IF Jesus is God Himself then you MUST worship Him- How can you not worship God??
 
Old 10-04-2016, 10:41 AM   #54
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I get thought instead "worship" = I "respect" Jesus and love him. It's your decision who you want "worship" or "respect". In new testament "worship" get two marks "respect" or "adore"

Last edited by Babism; 10-04-2016 at 10:46 AM.
 
Old 10-04-2016, 01:28 PM   #55
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I get thought instead "worship" = I "respect" Jesus and love him. It's your decision who you want "worship" or "respect". In new testament "worship" get two marks "respect" or "adore"
Now this could be very well just a result of me not understanding because of communication difficulties, with you primarily being a Polish speaker and all, but you did say:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
I worship Jesus like Father, because they are" unity"
Which would, in its English meaning, imply that you "worship" Jesus in the same way as you "worship" the Father, which would imply a bit more than just "respect" and would imply similarity to Catholic "worship" of Jesus, "worship" you in this thread attested not to practice.
 
Old 10-04-2016, 09:56 PM   #56
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Baha'is also worship Baha'u'llah as God, and indeed so did Abdu'l-Baha. Every Tablet He wrote where He starts with the phrase "He is God" or "Hovallah", the "He" is a reference to Baha'u'llah...."HE is God"

Of course one must distinguish that from the Essence of God which is a Reality not even worth talking about as human beings with human lips and human tongues. Words are inadequate for this Reality. In fact it could be said that the Essence of God does not exist.

All we know is that Baha'u'llah is God, as is Jesus. They share that common Reality
 
Old 10-05-2016, 12:18 AM   #57
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Baha'is also worship Baha'u'llah as God, and indeed so did Abdu'l-Baha.
Do we? I've obviously missed something during all these years as a Bahá'í.

gnat
 
Old 10-05-2016, 12:46 AM   #58
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Do we? I've obviously missed something during all these years as a Bahá'í.

gnat
Yes this is indeed so. Baha'u'llah says both schools of thought are sound as long as we do not argue about it.

There has been many discussions on his subject on Baha'i Forums. There are many quotes in this regard. As I am on my cheap phone, it is hard to look and post at same time.

Worth another discussion if you wish, new thread?

Personally I see both sides and the reason in both, thus I guess you would call me a swing believer 😄😉

Regards Tony
 
Old 10-05-2016, 04:37 AM   #59
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Quote:
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Now this could be very well just a result of me not understanding because of communication difficulties, with you primarily being a Polish speaker and all, but you did say:



Which would, in its English meaning, imply that you "worship" Jesus in the same way as you "worship" the Father, which would imply a bit more than just "respect" and would imply similarity to Catholic "worship" of Jesus, "worship" you in this thread attested not to practice.
I don't pray to Father, Jesus, Mary, Saints, prophets, animal. True God doesn't need prayer, if God needs and bids prayer he is like creature, who lack of love. I believe in God but I don't adore him by prayer, songs etc.

For me Baha’u'llah and Jesus was saints and reformator

Last edited by Babism; 10-05-2016 at 08:25 AM.
 
Old 10-05-2016, 02:29 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kam View Post
Baha'is also worship Baha'u'llah as God, and indeed so did Abdu'l-Baha. Every Tablet He wrote where He starts with the phrase "He is God" or "Hovallah", the "He" is a reference to Baha'u'llah...."HE is God"

Of course one must distinguish that from the Essence of God which is a Reality not even worth talking about as human beings with human lips and human tongues. Words are inadequate for this Reality. In fact it could be said that the Essence of God does not exist.

All we know is that Baha'u'llah is God, as is Jesus. They share that common Reality
There's only one God and Bahaullah certainly is not God as I know Him and I could not remain in this Faith if it maintains that Baha'u'llah is in fact God
 
Old 10-05-2016, 02:30 PM   #61
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Yes this is indeed so. Baha'u'llah says both schools of thought are sound as long as we do not argue about it.

There has been many discussions on his subject on Baha'i Forums. There are many quotes in this regard. As I am on my cheap phone, it is hard to look and post at same time.

Worth another discussion if you wish, new thread?

Personally I see both sides and the reason in both, thus I guess you would call me a swing believer 😄😉

Regards Tony
Tony to me this is impossible, how can a being be something and also not?
 
Old 10-06-2016, 03:50 AM   #62
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Quote:
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There's only one God and Bahaullah certainly is not God as I know Him and I could not remain in this Faith if it maintains that Baha'u'llah is in fact God
Aidan may I humbly give my idea about it? I too was confused when I first accepted the faith and I thought more and reached this conclusion:

I clarify with an example. imagine there is a big king in the world. the king of the kings. he lives in a place where no one knows, nor does he let anyone to even meet with him in person. but he has chosen other kings, minor kings who are the complete manifestations of himself. now this king of the kings sends a king each once in a while to some countries so that people can look at him and have an idea of how the king of the kings is. this king (the sent away king) is the complete manifestation of the king of the kings and people have not access in person to the king of the kings. so it is not futile if they call this king, the king of the kings. he is not the king of the kings and at the same time he is because there are no better and more complete manifestations to show people how the king of the kings is. now the king of the kings is God and the king is His manifestations

(oh! too many "king" words! hope you are not confused! )
 
Old 10-06-2016, 04:23 AM   #63
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Baha’u'llah and Jesus both claim to be God Almighty, this is true, both also now are in heaven and both will be raise bodily and physically on Resurrection Day. Baha’u'llah was spiritually return of Jesus but he was not physically return Son of God (Resurrection in future of Jesus). Both Baha’u'llah an Jesus, Moses etc. Were exalted by God and their souls rest in heaven but their bodies wait for physical Resurrection

Last edited by Babism; 10-06-2016 at 04:41 AM.
 
Old 10-06-2016, 08:27 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
Baha’u'llah and Jesus both claim to be God Almighty, this is true, both also now are in heaven and both will be raise bodily and physically on Resurrection Day. Baha’u'llah was spiritually return of Jesus but he was not physically return Son of God (Resurrection in future of Jesus). Both Baha’u'llah an Jesus, Moses etc. Were exalted by God and their souls rest in heaven but their bodies wait for physical Resurrection
dear friend
now that you believe in bodily, physical resurrection, then please answer this question:

Imagine that I die and my body is buried. after some years a plant grows from the soil in which my body is buried. a cow comes and eats that plant and after a while another person eats that cow. so some molecules of my body are now forming the body of another person.
then if I want to be resurrected physically, I need my whole body and a part of my body has formed the body of another person. how can it be correct?
please do not refer to any scripture. I only ask you to THINK for yourself logically and tell me the result. I wont accept any copy-past scripture here!
 
Old 10-06-2016, 08:54 AM   #65
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dear friend
now that you believe in bodily, physical resurrection, then please answer this question:

Imagine that I die and my body is buried. after some years a plant grows from the soil in which my body is buried. a cow comes and eats that plant and after a while another person eats that cow. so some molecules of my body are now forming the body of another person.
then if I want to be resurrected physically, I need my whole body and a part of my body has formed the body of another person. how can it be correct?
please do not refer to any scripture. I only ask you to THINK for yourself logically and tell me the result. I wont accept any copy-past scripture here!
Maybe the Egyptians were right all along!! Mummification is the way to go!!
 
Old 10-06-2016, 09:15 AM   #66
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Yahweh is not God of human logic, but is God of order, life and compassion love.

Isaiah 55:8 " "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD"

Elisha resurrected son of Shunammite
2 Kings 4:35
"Then he returned, and walked in the house to and fro; and went up, and stretched himself upon him: and the child sneezed seven times, and the child opened his eyes"

God is Not man. GOD will something impossible, God have a power to raise the death

Isaiah 26:19 " ""Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead"""

1 Samuel 2:6" “The LORDbrings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up”"

Job 19:25-27 " And after my skin has been destroyed, yet will I see God; I myself will see him with my own eyes — I, and not another. How my heart yearns within me!”" - it se cleare that God Yahweh will be raise saints and good persons

Last edited by Babism; 10-06-2016 at 09:22 AM.
 
Old 10-06-2016, 09:43 AM   #67
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Yahweh is not God of human logic, but is God of order, life and compassion love.

Isaiah 55:8 " "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD"

Elisha resurrected son of Shunammite
2 Kings 4:35
"Then he returned, and walked in the house to and fro; and went up, and stretched himself upon him: and the child sneezed seven times, and the child opened his eyes"

God is Not man. GOD will something impossible, God have a power to raise the death

Isaiah 26:19 " ""Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead"""

1 Samuel 2:6" “The LORDbrings death and makes alive; he brings down to the grave and raises up”"

Job 19:25-27 " And after my skin has been destroyed, yet will I see God; I myself will see him with my own eyes — I, and not another. How my heart yearns within me!”" - it se cleare that God Yahweh will be raise saints and good persons
well, I said I won't accept any scripture as the answer to my question! I want YOUR OWN logic and your own original answer to the question I asked, please
 
Old 10-06-2016, 09:56 AM   #68
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Clear response for Walrus
Baha’u'llah and Jesus are Gods?
Yes.
God the Father dwelled in Jesus
God Allah dwelled in Baha’u'llah
But both these saints are only man who got a divine atributes

Yahweh never became man, animal or angel. Yahweh is invisible God, who is worth Only adoration, prayers and worship
So I respect "other gods" like Christians God Father and Muslims Allah but I adore and worship Jewish God Yahweh
 
Old 10-06-2016, 10:21 AM   #69
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Maryamr
God created first people to live eternal on earth , without any sinful deeds they spent time. When Satan rebell and he created evil and death, to the earth broken in death as result of disobedience.
True God wishes always all the best own spiritual children, God who leads only death would be not God but creature who lack of life, so steal it to yoursef. God doesn't need our short life, God who would be attempt and play with mortal people and hurted them is not true God. God is centre of love and compassion, he will be live with us, and he deal with us own immortality, God desire all the best humankind, he is protector not destroyer!
 
Old 10-06-2016, 10:37 AM   #70
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Clear response for Walrus
Indeed, that does answer some questions I had asked about what you believe, so huzzah!! And the clarification of your multitude of definitions for "worship" clears up the confusion that caused.
 
Old 10-06-2016, 10:54 AM   #71
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Indeed, that does answer some questions I had asked about what you believe, so huzzah!! And the clarification of your multitude of definitions for "worship" clears up the confusion that caused.
Early Judaism has had strong monolatry, Yahweh is "God of Gods" and "lord of the lords".I worship (adore) Yahweh but I worship (respect) and believe in other gods
Like Allah, Ik Onkar, Brahma, Jesus, Baha’u'llah, Ahura Mazda. But i am only exalt Yahweh
 
Old 10-06-2016, 11:42 AM   #72
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Early Judaism has had strong monolatry, Yahweh is "God of Gods" and "lord of the lords".I worship (adore) Yahweh but I worship (respect) and believe in other gods
You're right on the subject of monolatrism, to a point, after all the original words for "God" and "angel" in the old testament are practically the same thing.

Heck, according to the old testament we, personally "are gods, [for we] are all sons of the Most High" (Psalm 82:6) (Come to think of it, according to the New Testament too, since Jesus quotes the Psalm in question in John 10:34).

Though I do think the lines you draw between YHWH and "other gods" whom are still Yahweh (because "their" messengers said exactly that) are kind of completely arbitrary.

Can you prove a divide between these entities?? If Moses tells us his God is Yahweh, and Muhammad tells us his God is the God of Moses, are they not one in the same?? From whence comes the division??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
When Satan rebell and he created evil and death, to the earth broken in death as result of disobedience.
This raises a few questions for me:

Why do you think death is bad?? To paraphrase Chuang Tzu, how do you know that by loving life and hating death you are not being delusional, simply fearing change?

Also, third time asked now including my emails, can you offer proof that evil exists in this world?? Because I don't think it does, and don't see any evidence of it.

Assuming evil does objectively exist even though I think the assumption is false, why would God give Satan so much power, that Satan can rebel and bring evil to the whole world by that one act?? This is a question I've never had answered by someone who believes in Satan. It just seems silly to me to think God would allow Satan as much power as those who believe in his power assume he has.

If Satan has the power to do soooooo much to humanity, why would he even rebel?? Why was he jealous of humanity in the first place if he is and has always been superior to us?? I mean we can't rebel against God and cause Satan to suffer, so if Satan can do so to us he was clearly stronger from the start. And if that's the case, he had no cause to rebel!!

The narrative makes no sense. Satan's rebellion over us was supposedly his jealousy against us, but if he's more powerful than all humans combined, then that would be just as absurd of a rebellion as me rebelling against God because I'm jealous of a cockroach.

Last edited by Walrus; 10-06-2016 at 12:13 PM.
 
Old 10-06-2016, 11:48 AM   #73
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Yahweh never became man, animal or angel.
Also I'm fairly certain Exodus 7:1 pretty much says that YHWH was inside Moses the same as "the Father" was inside Jesus and "Allah" was inside Baha'u'llah... so again I'm not sure where you're getting this division between the "three" from.

Last edited by Walrus; 10-06-2016 at 12:13 PM.
 
Old 10-06-2016, 12:00 PM   #74
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Allah is not Yahweh
Jesus is not Yahweh
Father is not Yahweh
Baha’u'llah is not Yahweh etc.
Allah, Jesus and Baha’u'llah are "other gods" subordinate to Yahweh
Moses never claim to be God, so he is not God but only great prophet
By prophets spoken holy spirit (holy spirit is not God but power of Yahweh)
"other gods " mean angels, Saints and prophets who had contacted with Yahweh by holy spirit, Jesus said" you are Gods", we can received salvation like gift free from Yahweh, salvation we can gain by mixture of good deeds without rituals and believe and worship Yahweh

Last edited by Babism; 10-06-2016 at 12:10 PM.
 
Old 10-06-2016, 12:08 PM   #75
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Allah is not Yahweh
Jesus is not Yahweh
Father is not Yahweh
Well 'cause you've stated it it must be true, eh?? /sarcasm

I think I've identified the fundamental breakdown in our communication. When I ask why you believe something, restating your belief as absolute fact does not, in fact, answer my question. The question is why not what.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
Allah, Jesus and Baha’u'llah are "other gods" subordinate to Yahweh
See I get that this is what you believe, but I was asking why you believed it, I was not asking you to simply restate yourself.

My beliefs are apologetic in nature. I have reasons for the things I believe and enjoy challenging what I believe whenever I can. So when you come in here and say things contrary to what I believe, I ask for the logic behind it in hopes to temper and further my own beliefs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babism View Post
Moses never claim to be God
Exodus 7:1, my friend, Exodus 7:1!! "See, I have made you God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your Prophet."

Last edited by Walrus; 10-06-2016 at 12:14 PM.
 
Old 10-06-2016, 12:30 PM   #76
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Cierpienie

Death and suffering are not destined from the creation of first man and women. When Adam and Eve doesn't fall in sin, they live be everlasting. Separated Adam and Eve from God, was result of their free will. For example person who commite suicide went to hell (you can laugh walrus, it's your choice), death is not solution. After death bad people pick up what they sew, when they sew on earth sad they will be sad in Hell, when they committed violence - they will be tortured by demons, and all people choosed evil and refused goodness. God Yahweh didn't punish them, they are punish theirself.
 
Old 10-06-2016, 12:34 PM   #77
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Exodus 7:1, my friend, Exodus 7:1!!*"See, I have made you God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your Prophet."

And Jesus said the same about own followers "we are the gods" in Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34
The both verses mean that Moses and followers of Jesus was spiritual children of God
 
Old 10-06-2016, 12:54 PM   #78
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Tony to me this is impossible, how can a being be something and also not?
Dear Aidank. What I have found with this subject is that it has lots to consider and one does not have to consider them

It stems from this that Baha'u'llah wrote, "Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: "I am God!" He verily speaketh the truth and no doubt attacheth thereto."

There is a lot to think about in the Kitabi-iquan and Baha'u'llah's tablets on Hinduism and Zoroastrianism, especially in The Tablet to Mirza Abu'l-Fadl Concerning the Questions of Manakji Limji Hataria.

But as Said it is not a point of argument, just a point for more meditation and understanding.

Regards Tony
 
Old 10-06-2016, 12:59 PM   #79
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Quote:
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Maryamr
God created first people to live eternal on earth , without any sinful deeds they spent time. When Satan rebell and he created evil and death, to the earth broken in death as result of disobedience.
True God wishes always all the best own spiritual children, God who leads only death would be not God but creature who lack of life, so steal it to yoursef. God doesn't need our short life, God who would be attempt and play with mortal people and hurted them is not true God. God is centre of love and compassion, he will be live with us, and he deal with us own immortality, God desire all the best humankind, he is protector not destroyer!
this is now an answer

the only problem is that you think if the body dies and goes away and is never resurrected then it means that God is a destroyer! it is wrong. look how babies in the womb see their dark world. when they come to this world, they will never go back to their previous state and yet we do not call it "destruction". it is progression.
 
Old 10-06-2016, 01:04 PM   #80
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I agree that infant and children who are innocent, they can't be punish afterlife, yes they are will go to heaven, God is love
 
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