Bahai Forums

Go Back   Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Forums > General Discussion

General Discussion Open Baha'i Discussion

LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-07-2017, 01:25 AM   #1
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2017
From: United states
Posts: 7
Why is the Persian Bayan untranslated ?

The Persian Bayan is a big book ( at least 300 pages ) yet only some pages have been translated ( gleanings from the writings of the Bab ) ! Why ?
Most here will tell me that "the writings of Baha'u'llah are more important" ! Nope sorry , you consider the Bab , as I said , the Co founder of your religion and you are even ordered to do a pilgrimage ("hajj") to his house !
ALM Nicolas , a french orientalist who studied the History of the Babi movement and even converted to Babism , remarqued how the Bab , in the eyes of most Persian , is seen as a Heretic , and from the eyes of Baha'is , as merely a "John Baptist" like figure witch saddened him alot .
The Quran says :
“159. Lo! Those who hide the proofs and the guidance which We revealed, after We had made it clear in the Scripture: such are accursed of God and accursed of those who have the power to curse. 160. Except such of them -as repent and amend and make manifest (the truth). These it is toward whom I relent. I am the Relenting, the Merciful.” Quran 2:159

Last edited by Ldvital; 05-07-2017 at 06:50 AM.
Join Baha'i Forums

Welcome to Baha'i Forums, an open Baha'i Faith community! We welcome everyone and the community is free to join so register today and become part of the Baha'i Forums family!

Old 05-07-2017, 05:03 AM   #2
Senior Member
Jcc's Avatar
Joined: Mar 2013
From: Edwardsville, Illinois, USA
Posts: 487
The Persian Bayan, as well as the Arabic Bayan and several other of the Bab's major works are translated in French, by Nicolas. Odd that you quote Nicholas and say there are no translations, when he actually did the translation! Of course they also are and have been available in the original language, which is most important.

Which is more important, that the Quran is available in translation, or that it is available in the original Arabic?

It is in compliance and obedience with the Bayan and the teachings of the Bab that the writings of Him Whom God Shall Make Manifest (Baha'u'llah) are given precedence. If this were not done it would be contrary to the Bab's own wishes.

Last edited by Jcc; 05-07-2017 at 05:10 AM.
Old 05-07-2017, 05:21 AM   #3
Joined: Feb 2016
From: United States
Posts: 69
I agree that a more thorough collection of the Bab's works in English would be nice, but I hesitate to go so far as to call the current state of translation a crime. Perhaps more could be done to garner support for a full English translation of the Bayan, but why the interest? Be careful when you try to find fault--it may just spur the type of change you don't want to see. I for one would fully support an English translation of the Bayan. I have been curious about it for a long time.

One thing I do know, however, is that Baha'u'llah abrogated several of the Bab's teachings and laws. So yes, it is more important for a Baha'i to be familiar with the teachings of Baha'u'llah. Do you find fault with Muslims who find Jesus and Moses of lesser importance than Muhammad? Perhaps there should be no difference between them, ideally, but in practice they are not and have never been treated equally. Is it any surprise, then, that Baha'is treat the words of their religion's founder as if they have special significance?
Old 05-07-2017, 05:59 AM   #4
Minor Bloodsucker
gnat's Avatar
Joined: Oct 2014
From: Stockholm
Posts: 1,672
"One of the crimes done by Baha'is against their "co founder" Prophet , The Bab...."

Thank you ever so much for showing your true colours. :-)

Old 05-07-2017, 12:36 PM   #5
Senior Member
GoaForce's Avatar
Joined: Nov 2015
From: France
Posts: 278
Greetings everyone.

Obviously, this is a tactical question that is formulated in such way that Bahai's are trapped when answering it, and people need to be aware of these tactics.

Let's go to the point. OP wants us to say either that :
1_The Bayan (why Persian ? there is an Arabic Bayan as well) is being "concealed" because "it's too bizarre/violent".
2_The Bayan shall be made available, which supposes that the policy of publication of Babi writings is bad as it is.

Now, as a French Baha'i, I can only point out to the fact that all translations of Babi writings provided by Nicolas are made available on a French Baha'i website : Mdiathque baha'ie: BIBLIOTHEQUE BAHA'IE (sommaire gnral) - Centre de Ressources Baha'ies Francophones

It is non-official, but it's run by Baha'is for Baha'is, and every French-speaking Baha'i can access it.
There is an introduction comment that asks people to take into account that some footnotes left by Nicolas have an anti-Baha'i bias and that his position about the Faith seem to have changed over time (as he exchanged letter with Shoghi Effendi).

And he was indeed a very interesting character who is worth having a biography. He was born in Iran of French diplomats and grew up there.

Now the real question that we can have - above the controversial level - is : what can of connection can a Baha'i have with the Bab ?

Also, one other problematic is that the Babi heritage, consisting of many cultural elements, such as poems, talismans, and a great deal of theological works (mostly issued by the infamous Mirza Yahya, who was a very intelligent person whose works were recognized by Baha'u'llah) have been ignored by the community. There are for instance instructions left by the Bab on how to make talismans, or theological works that are very interesting, that exist but are ignored by the community.

As other posters underlined, Baha'u'llah goes first. His writings are priority, but are we diminishing the importance of the Bab while doing so ? That is a good question we may ask ourselves.

Peace be with you.
Old 05-07-2017, 05:04 PM   #6
Senior Member
Jcc's Avatar
Joined: Mar 2013
From: Edwardsville, Illinois, USA
Posts: 487
I strongly suggest for those who want a better understanding of the Bab's teachings and a closer spiritual relationship with Him to read Nader Saidi's "Gate of the Heart". It provides very deep insights into vast Revelation of the Bab, the relationship to Islamic prophecies, theology and philosophy, and the connection with Baha'u'llah's teachings.

It will take many generations of scholars to discover even a part of the meaning and significance of the Bab's writings. One thing that is completely clear if you read the Bayan is that the Bab emphasized repeatedly that all of His Revelation is to be subordinated to that of Him Whom God Shall Make Manifest.

  Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Forums > General Discussion

bayan, persian, untranslated

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Facebook @bahaiforums RSS

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2006 - 2018 Bahai Forums. All rights reserved.