Bahai Forums

Go Back   Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Forums > General Discussion

General Discussion Open Baha'i Discussion


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-19-2017, 09:57 AM   #1
Junior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2012
From: Kashmir
Posts: 6
Time Travel possible?

Please check the following quote and link and commet does time travel possible according to bahai faith?

O servant of Bahá! Be self-sacrificing in the path of God, and wing thy flight unto the heavens of the love of the Abhá Beauty, for any movement animated by love moveth from the periphery to the centre, from space to the 198 Day-Star of the universe. Perchance thou deemest this to be difficult, but I tell thee that such cannot be the case, for when the motivating and guiding power is the divine force of magnetism it is possible, by its aid, to traverse time and space easily and swiftly. Glory be upon the people of Bahá.

Link

Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Pages 197-198
 
Join Baha'i Forums


Welcome to Baha'i Forums, an open Baha'i Faith community! We welcome everyone and the community is free to join so register today and become part of the Baha'i Forums family!


Old 05-19-2017, 10:19 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2014
From: Blue Planet
Posts: 1,193
Time travel may or may not be possible, but what is clear from this Passage is that It is not talking or even mentioning the matter of time travel. It is all spiritual.
 
Old 05-19-2017, 10:35 AM   #3
Junior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2012
From: Kashmir
Posts: 6
divine force of magnetism?
 
Old 05-19-2017, 10:39 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2014
From: Blue Planet
Posts: 1,193
Quote:
Originally Posted by kami2k View Post
divine force of magnetism?
yes, if that is the true meaning of spirit
 
Old 05-24-2017, 06:19 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Earth's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2012
From: Earth
Posts: 159
Greetings Kami2k,

The Central Figures often employed physical analogies for forces that were not always fully understood during their time. Indeed the passage you have cited would actually make little sense, even as an analogy, before the time of Einstein. This is because the notion of spacetime did not exist at the time it was Written.

While we might employ physical terms relating to forces that come about due to celestial objects like black holes, suns and planetary bodies, we really do not truly understand them. Newton, Einstein, and Hawking have contributed greatly towards our existing knowledge in such matters, but we are still in the process of learning about the wider physics of the universe.

If you wish to explore this subject more within the Bahá'í Faith you might find it interesting to examine the discussions between Shoghi Effendi and Enoch Olinga. Olinga was fascinated with the idea of travelling to the stars and with discovering aliens. This is why he would sometimes ask questions about such matters to the Guardian. Those that were party to witnessing these discussions have shared them from time to time. Alí Nakhjavání has conducted some presentations on these discussions and his reflections are truly breathtaking. Just to wet your appetite, Shoghi Effendi explained to Olinga that mankind would not be able to acquire the physical laws and build the technology required to travel to the stars until a profound sense of unity has been established on our planet. Unity is therefore the prerequisite for obtaining the intellectual ability necessary to unlock our understanding of physics to the point where we will be able to design and build spacecraft capable of interstellar travel. Apparently this is a universal constant applicable to all intelligent species that possess a soul, no matter what planet in the universe they originated from or how their own unique Manifestations of God guided them. Reflect on this a little and you will come to appreciate why Bahá'u'lláh is regarded as a Universal Manifestation of God and why humanity, on our planet, has now come of age.

We already know that time is not a constant within the universe, rather it is based in relationship to the proximity of celestial mass. This is why we use the notion of spacetime. The greater the mass the slower time goes. Indeed this difference can even be measured on Earth itself with atomic clocks. For instance time goes faster at the top of mountains compared to sea level, even if it just amounts to a little more than a few nano-seconds a day. So the further one travels from celestial mass the faster time goes. Conversely the closer one gets to a greater mass, including into the core of a celestial body, the slower time goes.

According to the theories of Einstein nothing can physically travel faster than light, but as our closest star system, Alpha Centauri, is over 4 light years away, interstellar travel will need to surpass the speed of light. At this time the only way we can envisage this type of travel is through the warping of spacetime. Indeed this is why Star Trek, the fictional creation of Gene Roddenberry, employed the notion of using a warp drive. It relates to the way a spacecraft could in theory warp spacetime to achieve relative motion beyond the speed of light. In theory this is possible, but it will require enormous energy. For instance travelling the distance from our solar system to Alpha Centaur would require the celestial energy comparable to the gas giant Jupiter. Impossible in conventional terms, even through nuclear energy, but we do know that it could be achieved with anti-matter. Indeed some laboratories are already producing anti-matter and this is why we now know that 4 sugar sized lump of anti-matter contain the equivalent amount of energy as Jupiter when fused with matter.

The universe is believed to be a little over 14 billion years old. When we look up to the sky at night we are already witnessing a natural time machine transpiring before our very eyes. So be assured that time travel is possible because it is already a natural component of the universe.

Earth
 
Old 05-24-2017, 12:20 PM   #6
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
tonyfish58's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: Normanton Far North Queensland
Posts: 3,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by kami2k View Post
Please check the following quote and link and commet does time travel possible according to bahai faith?

O servant of Bahá! Be self-sacrificing in the path of God, and wing thy flight unto the heavens of the love of the Abhá Beauty, for any movement animated by love moveth from the periphery to the centre, from space to the 198 Day-Star of the universe. Perchance thou deemest this to be difficult, but I tell thee that such cannot be the case, for when the motivating and guiding power is the divine force of magnetism it is possible, by its aid, to traverse time and space easily and swiftly. Glory be upon the people of Bahá.

Link

Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Pages 197-198
I read this back on 1984 and yes I beleive it is spiritual, but also a material reality. I have posted the quote on many forums with the same though you are asking. :-)

I like what Earth has posted.

I also like to think it will be Magnatisim that will be the perceptual motion power source we will soon have for all our travel.

Regards Tony
 
Old 05-24-2017, 02:30 PM   #7
Jcc
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2013
From: Edwardsville, Illinois, USA
Posts: 420
As I understand it, the spiritual world is beyond time and space. Which is to say, neither I nor anyone else can truly understand it until we transition to that reality after death. Our experience in this life is linear in time, and we have a rigid notion of how time progresses and never goes back. We can't really imagine what it's like to have a timeless existence, so imagining travel in time may be the best we can do, but it may not be like traveling, but like you are already there and don't need to travel anywhere.
 
Old 05-25-2017, 08:24 AM   #8
Junior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2012
From: Kashmir
Posts: 6
Thanks for all the contributers
 
Old 05-26-2017, 06:27 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Walrus's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: Wisconsin
Posts: 595
Of course!! I myself am currently travelling into the future right now!!
 
Old 05-26-2017, 08:45 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2013
From: _
Posts: 505
I don't think personally he was speaking "only" spiritually. Abdu'l Baha speeks of things like new power sources and other matters that clearly show he had an understanding of things to come. This is an extremely interesting quote. What is the 198 Day-Star? Is there another reference to this? what is the significance? 198 BE?


Time travel, at least forward, is possible. we all move through time, but at essentially the same rate. There are however already very early designs being worked out for interstellar probes that would approach reletivistic speeds to the point that time dilation would be a real issue in terms of communication. It is theoretically possible that benign wormholes would allow information or objects, (such as people) to pass in any direction. obviously there is no way known to create one, and the power required to do so would seem immense.


Basically came back out of quiet just to ask, if anyone knows, the significance of 198 Day-Star.
 
Old 05-26-2017, 07:14 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2015
From: Bend, Oregon
Posts: 127
Hello Noogan.

Thank you for sharing your perspective.

Sometimes when contributors cut and paste from other documents they also paste the page numbers, like including the "198" from the on line version of Selections from the Writings of 'Abdu'l-Baha, pp. 197 - 198.

-LR
 
Old 05-26-2017, 07:15 PM   #12
Jcc
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2013
From: Edwardsville, Illinois, USA
Posts: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by noogan View Post


Basically came back out of quiet just to ask, if anyone knows, the significance of 198 Day-Star.
I don't think the number 198 is part of the text. It was the page number from the print version of the book, which was in the e-text version as a point of reference. Normally I try to delete those numbers to avoid confusion.
 
Old 05-26-2017, 10:55 PM   #13
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
tonyfish58's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: Normanton Far North Queensland
Posts: 3,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by noogan View Post
I don't think personally he was speaking "only" spiritually. Abdu'l Baha speeks of things like new power sources and other matters that clearly show he had an understanding of things to come. This is an extremely interesting quote. What is the 198 Day-Star? Is there another reference to this? what is the significance? 198 BE?


Time travel, at least forward, is possible. we all move through time, but at essentially the same rate. There are however already very early designs being worked out for interstellar probes that would approach reletivistic speeds to the point that time dilation would be a real issue in terms of communication. It is theoretically possible that benign wormholes would allow information or objects, (such as people) to pass in any direction. obviously there is no way known to create one, and the power required to do so would seem immense.


Basically came back out of quiet just to ask, if anyone knows, the significance of 198 Day-Star.
It is great to see you back

Regards Tony
 
Old 06-01-2017, 10:09 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Earth's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2012
From: Earth
Posts: 159
Greetings all,

Some really interesting news has recently broken. Looks like we will be travelling back to observe the time of the Big Bang sooner than expected.

Enjoy the read Gravitational waves: Third detection of deep space warping - BBC News

Earth
 
Old 06-01-2017, 01:25 PM   #15
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
tonyfish58's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: Normanton Far North Queensland
Posts: 3,916
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth View Post
Greetings all,

Some really interesting news has recently broken. Looks like we will be travelling back to observe the time of the Big Bang sooner than expected.

Enjoy the read Gravitational waves: Third detection of deep space warping - BBC News

Earth
That is great Thank you

Regards Tony
 
Old 06-01-2017, 05:07 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2013
From: forest falls california
Posts: 1,773
Spiritual Reality

It occurs to me that what promts the interest in space time travel, is that it is actuated by our spiritual capacity. That is, what we are seeking is spiritual truths.

We have within us a faculty which animals do not have. We "need to know God." Our intelect prompts us to seek God. Through all our endeavors at excellence and perfections, we exert ourselves. So in trying to go beyond earthly limitations of space and time, we are really seeking out the spiritual truths we are meant to find.

All this culminates in attainment of the Divine Presence. The Sadrat'ul'Muntaha, the Tree beyond which there is no passing, is our ultimate goal. In this day, to attain to the recongition of Baha'u'llah.

"The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Dayspring of Revelation and the Fountain of His laws. Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation."

Of what benefit would it be to go forward or backward in time, other than to attain to the Divine Presence? Or to teach the Cause of God? In the past, they have had their chance with the former Manifestations sent to them. In the future also, they will have their Manifestation of God for their time, in their space.
 
Old 06-06-2017, 01:01 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2013
From: _
Posts: 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcc View Post
I don't think the number 198 is part of the text. It was the page number from the print version of the book, which was in the e-text version as a point of reference. Normally I try to delete those numbers to avoid confusion.
Thanks.

That was not my smartest moment.
 
Old 06-08-2017, 12:35 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Walrus's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: Wisconsin
Posts: 595
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jcc View Post
As I understand it, the spiritual world is beyond time and space. Which is to say, neither I nor anyone else can truly understand it until we transition to that reality after death. Our experience in this life is linear in time, and we have a rigid notion of how time progresses and never goes back. We can't really imagine what it's like to have a timeless existence, so imagining travel in time may be the best we can do, but it may not be like traveling, but like you are already there and don't need to travel anywhere.
This is what the scriptures state:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Tablets of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá v1, p. 205-206
For the Kingdom of God is sanctified (or free) from time and place; it is another world and another universe.
Of course, in such a state time travel is impossible, since apparently we'll be existing at every point in time simultaneously then.
 
Old 06-19-2017, 06:05 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
camachoe's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2017
From: Mexico
Posts: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Earth View Post

... Shoghi Effendi explained to Olinga that mankind would not be able to acquire the physical laws and build the technology required to travel to the stars until a profound sense of unity has been established on our planet. Unity is therefore the prerequisite for obtaining the intellectual ability necessary to unlock our understanding of physics to the point where we will be able to design and build spacecraft capable of interstellar travel. Apparently this is a universal constant applicable to all intelligent species that possess a soul, no matter what planet in the universe they originated from or how their own unique Manifestations of God guided them. Reflect on this a little and you will come to appreciate why Bahá'u'lláh is regarded as a Universal Manifestation of God and why humanity, on our planet, has now come of age.
This is so inspiring.
Thank you, Earth!
 
Old 06-22-2017, 03:27 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
becky's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
From: colorado/summer-Oklahoma/winter
Posts: 770
Those souls that, in this day, enter the divine kingdom and attain everlasting life, although materially dwelling on earth, yet in reality soar in the realm of heaven. Their bodies may linger on earth but their spirits travel in the immensity of space. For as thoughts widen and become illumined, they acquire the power of flight and transport man to the Kingdom of God.

Abdu'l-Baha', Selections, p. 171
 
Old 06-25-2017, 08:45 AM   #21
Junior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2012
From: Kashmir
Posts: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by becky View Post
Those souls that, in this day, enter the divine kingdom and attain everlasting life, although materially dwelling on earth, yet in reality soar in the realm of heaven. Their bodies may linger on earth but their spirits travel in the immensity of space. For as thoughts widen and become illumined, they acquire the power of flight and transport man to the Kingdom of God.

Abdu'l-Baha', Selections, p. 171

This is about ...........?
 
Old 07-01-2017, 07:44 PM   #22
Junior Member
 
Joined: Jun 2017
From: California
Posts: 7
a profound sense of unity... Darn universe keeps winking out!
 
Old 07-01-2017, 08:06 PM   #23
Junior Member
 
Joined: Jun 2017
From: California
Posts: 7
Oh yes, there is the fabrication of physical space. Is that proof? And to what end to begin or end in our mental fabrication, which must certainly coincide with every element of the manifest reality of the universe... Faith.
 
Old 07-01-2017, 08:09 PM   #24
Junior Member
 
Joined: Jun 2017
From: California
Posts: 7
Faith, unity... How 'bout the leap from one atom to the next?
 
Old 07-01-2017, 08:50 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
becky's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2014
From: colorado/summer-Oklahoma/winter
Posts: 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by kami2k View Post
This is about ...........?
Traversing time and space.

Last edited by becky; 07-01-2017 at 08:52 PM. Reason: Typo
 
Old 07-18-2017, 06:16 PM   #26
Junior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2010
From: Australia
Posts: 9
Of course time travel is possible as God sees the past,
present and future but whether or not His Wisdom allows us to discover it or use it is another question.
 
Reply

  Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Forums > General Discussion

Tags
time, travel



Thread Tools
Display Modes



Facebook @bahaiforums RSS


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2006 - 2017 Bahai Forums. All rights reserved.