Bahai Forums

Go Back   Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Forums > General Discussion

General Discussion Open Baha'i Discussion


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-26-2017, 03:49 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Joined: Sep 2017
From: Birmingham
Posts: 127
Idle talk?

What is idle talk? What about causing a laughter? What about saying something about someone behind there back just to cause a laugh when you don't mean to harm the other person? I mean what even is idle talk?
 
Join Baha'i Forums


Welcome to Baha'i Forums, an open Baha'i Faith community! We welcome everyone and the community is free to join so register today and become part of the Baha'i Forums family!


Old 09-26-2017, 03:53 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Joined: Sep 2017
From: Birmingham
Posts: 127
"observe silence and refrain from idle talk. For the tongue is a smoldering fire, and excess of speech a deadly poison" observing silence I'm not sure how to bring joy to others by being silent I usually bring joy by humour and comedy lighthearted and in context with person I'm speaking to with sole intention of uplifting the other person but some things I'm not sure are OK especially with quote above hope someone can help
 
Old 09-27-2017, 10:26 AM   #3
djg
Member
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Denver, CO
Posts: 61
Laughing about others behind their back seems to me to be a form of backbiting, which is strictly forbidden.

Laughter in moderation is good. Baha'u'llah had a sense of humor. Raucousness and laughter in excess is bad.

Check out this link for more:


https://bahai-library.com/ballenger_master_humorist
 
Old 09-27-2017, 12:11 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Walrus's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: Wisconsin
Posts: 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
"observe silence and refrain from idle talk. For the tongue is a smoldering fire, and excess of speech a deadly poison" observing silence I'm not sure how to bring joy to others by being silent I usually bring joy by humour and comedy lighthearted and in context with person I'm speaking to with sole intention of uplifting the other person but some things I'm not sure are OK especially with quote above hope someone can help
So the full context of this quote you have here reads as follows:

That seeker must, at all times, put his trust in God, must renounce the peoples of the earth, must detach himself from the world of dust, and cleave unto Him Who is the Lord of Lords. He must never seek to exalt himself above any one, must wash away from the tablet of his heart every trace of pride and vain-glory, must cling unto patience and resignation, observe silence and refrain from idle talk. For the tongue is a smoldering fire, and excess of speech a deadly poison. Material fire consumeth the body, whereas the fire of the tongue devoureth both heart and soul. The force of the former lasteth but for a time, whilst the effects of the latter endureth a century.

That seeker should, also, regard backbiting as grievous error, and keep himself aloof from its dominion, inasmuch as backbiting quencheth the light of the heart, and extinguisheth the life of the soul. He should be content with little, and be freed from all inordinate desire. He should treasure the companionship of them that have renounced the world, and regard avoidance of boastful and worldly people a precious benefit. At the dawn of every day he should commune with God, and, with all his soul, persevere in the quest of his Beloved. He should consume every wayward thought with the flame of His loving mention, and, with the swiftness of lightning, pass by all else save Him. He should succor the dispossessed, and never withhold his favor from the destitute. He should show kindness to animals, how much more unto his fellow-man, to him who is endowed with the power of utterance. He should not hesitate to offer up his life for his Beloved, nor allow the censure of the people to turn him away from the Truth. He should not wish for others that which he doth not wish for himself, nor promise that which he doth not fulfil. With all his heart he should avoid fellowship with evil-doers, and pray for the remission of their sins. He should forgive the sinful, and never despise his low estate, for none knoweth what his own end shall be. How often hath a sinner attained, at the hour of death, to the essence of faith, and, quaffing the immortal draught, hath taken his flight unto the Concourse on high! And how often hath a devout believer, at the hour of his soulís ascension, been so changed as to fall into the nethermost fire!


So, according to the context here, this idle, dangerous speech refers to backbiting: The act of using your words to bring harm to others.

Laughter and using humor and comedy to bring people joy?? That's far from idle backbiting, that has a very good purpose.
 
Old 11-03-2017, 04:47 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Joined: Sep 2017
From: Birmingham
Posts: 127
If idle talk is referring to backbiting, then what do you guys think 'excess of speech is a deadly poison' means and where can we draw the line what is excess and what is not ? And also to 'observe silence' ?? Is comedy and humour excess speech
 
Old 11-03-2017, 04:32 PM   #6
Jcc
Senior Member
 
Jcc's Avatar
 
Joined: Mar 2013
From: Edwardsville, Illinois, USA
Posts: 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
If idle talk is referring to backbiting, then what do you guys think 'excess of speech is a deadly poison' means and where can we draw the line what is excess and what is not ? And also to 'observe silence' ?? Is comedy and humour excess speech
There is an appropriate time for humor, and when given at the right time gives joy to the heart. There is also an inappropriate time and place, if somebody is trying to be funny just to attract attention to himself, and is disturbing others.

But the deadly poison is where speech is intended to hurt others, and some people hurt others to make themselves feel superior. The truth is the opposite.
 
Old 11-07-2017, 04:15 AM   #7
Member
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Kettering, Ohio USA
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
If idle talk is referring to backbiting, then what do you guys think 'excess of speech is a deadly poison' means and where can we draw the line what is excess and what is not ? And also to 'observe silence' ?? Is comedy and humour excess speech
What He is talking about is discussing ball games or TV programs, things like that.
 
Old 11-07-2017, 09:12 AM   #8
Minor Bloodsucker
 
gnat's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2014
From: Stockholm
Posts: 1,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duane View Post
What He is talking about is discussing ball games or TV programs, things like that.
I sincerely doubt that.

Best

from

gnat
 
Old 11-07-2017, 03:10 PM   #9
Member
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Kettering, Ohio USA
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
I sincerely doubt that.

Best

from

gnat
I think you're right. Sorry about that. When I look at it more closely it has a negative connotation.
 
Old 11-08-2017, 03:44 PM   #10
Lives in hope
 
AidanK's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2015
From: N Ireland
Posts: 371
Perhaps it refers to people speaking out of hubris or desire to win an argument
 
Old 11-08-2017, 04:01 PM   #11
Minor Bloodsucker
 
gnat's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2014
From: Stockholm
Posts: 1,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by AidanK View Post
Perhaps it refers to people speaking out of hubris or desire to win an argument
I agree. The rest - chitchat, football and what not is important as a lubricant between people.

gnat
 
Old 11-09-2017, 01:20 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Joined: Sep 2017
From: Birmingham
Posts: 127
-

Why do you guys think we are told to observe silence then?
 
Old 11-09-2017, 12:25 PM   #13
Minor Bloodsucker
 
gnat's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2014
From: Stockholm
Posts: 1,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
Why do you guys think we are told to observe silence then?

......[silence]......




from

gnat
 
Old 11-10-2017, 08:03 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Walrus's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2014
From: Wisconsin
Posts: 696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
If idle talk is referring to backbiting, then what do you guys think 'excess of speech is a deadly poison' means and where can we draw the line what is excess and what is not ?
We're told in other scriptures what uses of speech are sinful: namely fault-finding and back-biting. Those, I would say, are the excess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
And also to 'observe silence' ??
Keep the context of the quote in mind. Context is everything when analyzing scripture (no matter the religion)!!

In this context a seeker is told they should "observe silence". Specifically a seeker. It's fairly obvious that in order to learn the truth at some point in time a person must be quiet and listen to others in order to learn and seek.

So that would be what I think it refers to. Listen and learn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
Is comedy and humour excess speech
There is no Scripture that condemns humor, so no.

If you need further evidence, in the Bayan the Bab forbids doing anything that would cause unhappiness (his reasoning being that Him Who God Shall Make Manifest should be surrounded by joy). Getting rid of humor would cause unhappiness, therefore under Bayanic Law, avoiding humor is strictly forbidden!! It's haram!! Sinful even!!

And since Baha'i law is not Babi law, if you need further proof on jokes being accepted, here's a link to an article about all the jokes Abdu'l-Baha himself told: https://bahai-library.com/ballenger_master_humorist If a person with Ismah and understanding of our Laws uses humor, we can assume it to be allowed.
 
Old 11-10-2017, 12:39 PM   #15
Member
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Kettering, Ohio USA
Posts: 79
It's confusing. "Idle talk" would seem to me to mean talking idly, yet it is coupled with negative connotations, so I don't know what idle talk means. No, I think it means considering what you are going to say before you say it instead of talking without thinking about what you are saying. He says to observe silence about negative traits of people whether to their face, or behind their back. I hope I cleared up people's concerns.
 
Old 11-11-2017, 04:20 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Joined: Sep 2010
From: Canada
Posts: 1,282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
What is idle talk? What about causing a laughter? What about saying something about someone behind there back just to cause a laugh when you don't mean to harm the other person? I mean what even is idle talk?
I suggest search for the keyword "idle talk" in Baha'i Library, and see how elsewhere it is used within the Baha'i Writings. Specially we Baha'is must see how Abdulbaha interpreted idle talk.
 
Old 11-12-2017, 05:21 PM   #17
Lives in hope
 
AidanK's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2015
From: N Ireland
Posts: 371
Perhaps an example of idle talk is when nationalism is espoused when there are neighbours who are hungry or cold?
 
Old 11-17-2017, 11:43 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
camachoe's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2017
From: Mexico
Posts: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duane View Post
...I think it means considering what you are going to say before you say it instead of talking without thinking about what you are saying...
I like very much your approach, Duane.

When we talk without a good purpose, we are at risk of falling in the cliches of pessimism, irrational criticism, sterotyping, back biting, and the rest.

Idle talk is like idle eating. If you are not aware of the act of eating, you tend to eat too much and too bad in quality. If you are not aware of the act of having sex, you miss the spiritual and settle with the animal, and even the physical pleasure is diminished.

If we pray without thinking in the meaning of the words we recite, that is idle praying and serves no purpose.

If we work at the office as a robot, the dimension of worship and sacredness of work is lost.

One friend of mine had summarized it this way: "I have do not have a good reason to say something, I better stay silent."
 
Reply

  Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Forums > General Discussion

Tags
idle, talk



Thread Tools
Display Modes



Facebook @bahaiforums RSS


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2006 - 2017 Bahai Forums. All rights reserved.