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Old 12-30-2017, 04:54 PM   #1
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What makes the Bahá'í Faith true?

Hello everybody, I am new to the forums, and a fellow human who also happens to be a devout Christian. Upon my investigation of many faiths, I have determined that Christianity is true. Now, I ask you my friends, why do you believe the Bahá'í Faith is true, and why should I too?

There were many others like Bahá'u'lláh in the Islamic world in the 19th century, the most notable of these was Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, founder of Ahmadiyya Islam. Bahá'u'lláh and Mirza Ahmad taught very similar things. So, why should I believe in one over the other? Did either one of them rise from the dead? Were either one of them exalted by God to the highest position as Lord? How did God vindicate one or the other? What did either one of them do to prove their message? And why do you believe Bahá'u'lláh's message is true over any one else's message?

Last edited by ExaltedOne; 12-30-2017 at 06:06 PM.
 
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Old 12-30-2017, 05:23 PM   #2
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Welcome, You have an interesting screen name.

Are you sure you need to ask questions?

Baha'u'llah is the 'Glory of God'. If you go to http://www.bahai.org and bottom of page to Library link, you can read what Baha'u'llah has offered.

Regards Tony

Last edited by tonyfish58; 12-30-2017 at 05:25 PM.
 
Old 12-30-2017, 05:38 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExaltedOne View Post
Hello everybody, I am new to the forums, and a fellow human who also happens to be a devout Christian. Upon my investigation of many faiths I have determined that Christianity is true. Now, I ask you my friends, why do you believe the Bahá'í Faith is true, and why should I too?

There were many others like Bahá'u'lláh in the Islamic world in the 19th century, the most notable of these was Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, founder of Ahmadiyya Islam. Bahá'u'lláh and Mirza Ahmad taught very similar things. So, why should I believe in one over the other? Did either one of them rise from the dead? Were either one of them exalted by God to the highest position as Lord? How did God vindicate one or the other? What did either one of them do to prove their message? And why do you believe Bahá'u'lláh's message is true over any one else's message?
Hello and welcome.

I also suggest, to begin with, read the following description about Bahaullah:



Some Answered Questions | Bahá’à Reference Library


Then we can get into more details if you wish.
 
Old 12-30-2017, 05:48 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by InvestigateTruth View Post
Hello and welcome.

I also suggest, to begin with, read the following description about Bahaullah:



Some Answered Questions | Bahá’à Reference Library


Then we can get into more details if you wish.
Thank you but, I don't really think I have time to read all of that. Could you maybe summarize?
 
Old 12-30-2017, 06:58 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by ExaltedOne View Post
Thank you but, I don't really think I have time to read all of that. Could you maybe summarize?
I can give a summary for the Evidences of the Truth of Bahaullah as follows:

1. Innate knowledge of Bahaullah: knowing things without learning from others.
2. Spiritual power and Constancy in His mission, even though He had to go through exile and imprisonment; Leaving a comfortable life as someone who was born in a noble family, and instead going through exile for His mission to establish the new Faith.
3. Fulfilling prophecies of previous Religions: Jewdism, Christianity, Islam, Zoroasterism,....etc.
4. His knowledge of future events.
5. Writing more than 17000 works free from errors, even though He did not go to school, and did not read books to learn from.
6. And most importantly His wisdom, saintly and upright Character and having new teachings, which is the fruit of His Revelation.

Last edited by InvestigateTruth; 12-30-2017 at 07:20 PM.
 
Old 12-30-2017, 09:03 PM   #6
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1. Innate knowledge of Bahaullah: knowing things without learning from others.
What exactly do you mean by this? That Bahá'í can know about his life events without having been taught or something along the lines of that? I don't really see that as something testable though.

Quote:
2. Spiritual power and Constancy in His mission, even though He had to go through exile and imprisonment; Leaving a comfortable life as someone who was born in a noble family, and instead going through exile for His mission to establish the new Faith.
Noble, but a lot of other religious and non-religious figures have gone through similar things. I don't think that's really proof of anything other than faithfulness.

Quote:
3. Fulfilling prophecies of previous Religions: Jewdism, Christianity, Islam, Zoroasterism,....etc.
How so? As a Christian I don't see how Baha'ullah could have fulfilled any prophecies, especially considering the fact that he was a mere man and not Christ the Lord who, when he returns, will restore all things. Death and sin will be defeated. Yet here we are, still in a broken world. Nothing looks fulfilled to me.

Quote:
4. His knowledge of future events.
May I have an example?

Quote:
5. Writing more than 17000 works free from errors, even though He did not go to school, and did not read books to learn from.
I found this:

Quote:
According to the custom of that time, as the son of an influential government official, Bahá’u’lláh did not receive a formal education. Yet by the time He was fourteen, he became known for His learning. He would converse on any subject and solve any problem presented to him. In large gatherings he would explain intricate religious questions to the ulama (the leading religious figures in Islam), and they listened with great interest.
Sounds like a very smart man, which isn't surprising considering the fact he started a whole new religious movement. I don't see this as proof of anything though. Ever hear of famous Mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujan? He had no formal education in Mathematics, yet he became one of the best Mathematicians who has ever lived. I don't see this as proof that he was divinely inspired though.

Quote:
6. And most importantly His wisdom, saintly and upright Character and having new teachings, which is the fruit of His Revelation.
Again, sounds like a very smart and noble man. But this just doesn't do it for me. Did he rise from the dead? Was he exalted to the highest position?

Quote:
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

- Philippians 2:5-11

Last edited by ExaltedOne; 12-31-2017 at 08:51 AM.
 
Old 12-31-2017, 12:44 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExaltedOne View Post
- Philippians 2:11"And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
It is good to know that Baha'u'llah translated in English means the 'Glory of God', or the 'Glory of the Lord'.

Baha'u'llah also came in the Station of the Father.

I hope you have a good new year.

Regards Tony
 
Old 12-31-2017, 02:38 AM   #8
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Hi

Hi just a quick message. Good question, I've asked the same. Just to let you know Mirza ghulam Ahmad read the books of the Baha'i literature which is the reason he has similiar principles, he was also born after the Bahá'í bloom. The proof of Bahá'u'lláh is his revelation, his life, and the prophecies of the past religions and many other things. As you are a Christian I was just wondering if you were of 'the great disappointment' based on biblical prophecy? And also the idea that Jesus has been said to return ..
 
Old 12-31-2017, 07:11 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by ExaltedOne View Post
What exactly do you mean by this? That Bahá'í can know about his life events without having been taught or something along the lines of that? I don't really see that as something testable though.
No, That is not what I meant. I meant to say that Bahaullah was Omniscience. He knew all things without learning from other sources. The analogy for this is the Sun. The Sun has His own light. The Sun does not get His light from other sources.


Quote:
Noble, but a lot of other religious and non-religious figures have gone through similar things. I don't think that's really proof of anything other than faithfulness.
Show me one other person who was living a wealthy and comfortable life, but He was willing to sacrifice all His wealth and comfort in order to establish a new Religion, or even a good idealogy.


Quote:
How so? As a Christian I don't see how Baha'ullah could have fulfilled any prophecies, especially considering the fact that he was a mere man and not Christ the Lord who, when he returns, will restore all things. Death and sin will be defeated. Yet here we are, still in a broken world. Nothing looks fulfilled to me.
If we apply the same logic that proves Jesus was the Messiah to the evidences that we see in Bahaullah, we would see, Bahaullah is the return of Christ prophesied in Bible. But in order to assess if the Prophecies are fulfilled or not, we need to look at the Scriptures to see what are the signs of return of Christ, and what was supposed to happen. You have indicated for example that still there is death and sin. You are correct, but, the Scriptures does not say, as soon as Christ returns death and sin will disappear. Moreover in the Baha'i View, when Bible is talking about 'defeating Death', it means spiritual death, not the physical death. In another words, it is the new teachings that will give a new spiritual life which defeats the spiritual death for everyone who follows it.


Quote:
May I have an example?
Sure, I quote partly from the link I gave you:


"Immediately upon His arrival in prison, He addressed an epistle to Napoleon which He sent through the French ambassador, the substance of which was: “Ask what crime We have committed to be confined in this prison.” Napoleon made no reply. Then a second epistle was issued, which is contained in the Súriy-i-Haykal, and which in substance says: “O Napoleon! Since thou hast failed to heed and answer My call, thou shalt lose Thy dominion and be reduced to naught.” This epistle was dispatched to Napoleon by post, through the care of César Catafago and with the full knowledge of His companions in exile. The text of this address quickly reached all of Persia, for the Kitáb-i-Haykal was sent at that time to every corner of that land and this address was included therein. This took place in the year 1869, and as this Súriy-i-Haykal had been circulated throughout Persia and India, all the believers had it in their hands and were awaiting the outcome of this address. Not long after, in 1870, the fire of war was ignited between Germany and France, and although no one at the time anticipated the triumph of Germany, Napoleon was resoundingly defeated, surrendered to his enemies, and saw his glory changed into deepest abasement."



Quote:
I found this:



Sounds like a very smart man, which isn't surprising considering the fact he started a whole new religious movement. I don't see this as proof of anything though. Ever hear of famous Mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujan? He had no formal education in Mathematics, yet he became one of the best Mathematicians who has ever lived. I don't see this as proof that he was divinely inspired though.
Being smart, does not cause a person know historical details or the details of holy scriptures without ever reading them, or learning from others. For example Bahaullah knew the details of Bible or Quran without studying or learning from others. He was able to write a whole book, free from error, in just 2 days in front of others, containing information that He did not learn from any other sources before. Many of the knowledgeable scholars who had studied years at schools, found this ability of Bahaullah miraculous.


Quote:
Again, sounds like a very smart and noble man. But this just doesn't do it for me. Did he rise from the dead? Was he exalted to the highest position?
The Baha'is do not believe that the Authors of Bible literally meant to say that Jesus physically rose from death. They were speaking symbolically about the Cause, Religion, and disciples of Jesus who raised after three Days.
"Now yea are the body of Christ, and His members"
 
Old 12-31-2017, 10:04 AM   #10
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Independent investigation of the truth is a very important attribute of the Baha'i Faith. No Baha'i here or anywhere is responsible for convincing you of the truth of Baha'u'llah. It is incumbent on all of us to discover that truth for ourselves. It is a beautiful road of discovery, should you choose to walk it.

Loving regards,
Becky
 
Old 12-31-2017, 03:32 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ExaltedOne View Post
Hello everybody, I am new to the forums, and a fellow human who also happens to be a devout Christian. Upon my investigation of many faiths, I have determined that Christianity is true. Now, I ask you my friends, why do you believe the Bahá'í Faith is true, and why should I too?
Welcome to the forum. You are obviously a sincere seeker of truth.

The answers to your questions cannot be answered in a few posts. As the others here have said, it requires a thorough independent investigation. But where does one even start? I understand that this can be very overwhelming. I was never a Christian but I converse with many Christians on other forums so I have learned a lot about Christianity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExaltedOne View Post
There were many others like Bahá'u'lláh in the Islamic world in the 19th century, the most notable of these was Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, founder of Ahmadiyya Islam. Bahá'u'lláh and Mirza Ahmad taught very similar things. So, why should I believe in one over the other? Did either one of them rise from the dead? Were either one of them exalted by God to the highest position as Lord? How did God vindicate one or the other? What did either one of them do to prove their message? And why do you believe Bahá'u'lláh's message is true over any one else's message?
I do not believe anyone is a Prophet just because they said they were a Prophet. Anyone can say that but why would I believe them without a lot of evidence to back up that claim? The evidence that someone is a Prophet is as follows:

• What He was like as a person (His character);
• What He did during His mission on earth;
• The history of His Cause, from the time He appeared moving forward;
• The scriptures that were attributed to Him or scriptures that He wrote;
• What others have written about Him;
• The Bible prophecies that He fulfilled by His coming,
• The prophecies of other religions that He fulfilled by Hid coming;
• The predictions He made that have come to pass;
• The religion that He established (followers), what they have done and are doing now.

All this constitutes verifiable evidence.

I tend to cut to the chase. Bahá'u'lláh made some bold claims. Below are some of His claims. It is our job to determine if those claims are backed up by the evidence, as noted above.

Baha’u’llah claimed to be a Manifestation of God and the Messiah promised by all the religions and the return of Christ that was prophesied in the OT and the NT.

Baha’u’llah claimed to be the Lord of Lords referred to in Rev 19:16:

“O Pope! Rend the veils asunder. He Who is the Lord of Lords is come overshadowed with clouds, and the decree hath been fulfilled by God, the Almighty, the Unrestrained. Dispel the mists through the power of thy Lord, and ascend unto the Kingdom of His names and attributes. Thus hath the Pen of the Most High commanded thee at the behest of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Compelling. He, verily, hath again come down from Heaven even as He came down from it the first time. Beware that thou dispute not with Him even as the Pharisees disputed with Him without a clear token or proof. On His right hand flow the living waters of grace, and on His left the choice Wine of justice, whilst before Him march the angels of Paradise, bearing the banners of His signs. Beware lest any name debar thee from God, the Creator of earth and heaven. Leave thou the world behind thee, and turn towards thy Lord, through Whom the whole earth hath been illumined......” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, pp. 54-55

Baha’u’llah claimed to be the Father foretold by Isaiah, and the Comforter promised by Jesus in John 14, 15 and 16:

“Give ear unto that which the Dove of Eternity warbleth upon the twigs of the Divine Lote-Tree: O peoples of the earth! We sent forth him who was named John to baptize you with water, that your bodies might be cleansed for the appearance of the Messiah. He, in turn, purified you with the fire of love and the water of the spirit in anticipation of these Days whereon the All-Merciful hath purposed to cleanse you with the water of life at the hands of His loving providence. This is the Father foretold by Isaiah, and the Comforter concerning Whom the Spirit had covenanted with you. Open your eyes, O concourse of bishops, that ye may behold your Lord seated upon the Throne of might and glory.

Say: O peoples of all faiths! Walk not in the ways of them that followed the Pharisees and thus veiled themselves from the Spirit. They truly have strayed and are in error. The Ancient Beauty is come in His Most Great Name, and He wisheth to admit all mankind into His most holy Kingdom. The pure in heart behold the Kingdom of God manifest before His Face. Make haste thereunto and follow not the infidel and the ungodly. Should your eye be opposed thereto, pluck it out. 2 Thus hath it been decreed by the Pen of the Ancient of Days, as bidden by Him Who is the Lord of the entire creation. He, verily, hath come again that ye might be redeemed, O peoples of the earth. Will ye slay Him Who desireth to grant you eternal life? Fear God, O ye who are endued with insight.” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, pp. 63-64

Baha’u’llah claimed to be the Spirit of truth promised by Jesus in John 14, 15 and 16:

“This is a Tablet from this Servant, who is called Husayn in the kingdom of names, to the concourse of the kings of the earth. Haply they may approach it in a spirit of open-mindedness, discover from its message the mysteries of divine providence, and be of those that comprehend its meaning, and perchance they may forsake all they possess, turn towards the retreats of holiness, and draw nigh unto God, the All-Glorious, the Incomparable........” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 185

“O kings of Christendom! Heard ye not the saying of Jesus, the Spirit of God, "I go away, and come again unto you"? 2 Wherefore, then, did ye fail, when He did come again unto you in the clouds of heaven, to draw nigh unto Him, that ye might behold His face, and be of them that attained His Presence? In another passage He saith: "When He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth." 3 And yet behold how, when He did bring the truth, ye refused to turn your faces towards Him, and persisted in disporting yourselves with your pastimes and fancies. Ye welcomed Him not, neither did ye seek His Presence, that ye might hear the verses of God from His own mouth, and partake of the manifold wisdom of the Almighty, the All-Glorious, the All-Wise. Ye have, by reason of your failure, hindered the breath of God from being wafted over you, and have withheld from your souls the sweetness of its fragrance. Ye continue roving with delight in the valley of your corrupt desires. By God! Ye, and all ye possess, shall pass away. Ye shall, most certainly, return to God, and shall be called to account for your doings in the presence of Him Who shall gather together the entire creation.

Again, heard ye not that which hath been recorded in the Gospel concerning those "which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God" 4 —that is, those who have been made manifest through the power of God? Wherefore it becometh evident that one may well be manifested in the world of creation who is truly of God, the Almighty, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. How is it then that when word reached you of Our Cause, ye failed to inquire from Our own lips, that ye might distinguish truth from falsehood, discover Our aim and purpose, and learn of the afflictions which We have suffered at the hands of an evil and wayward generation?” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, pp. 191-192

 
Old 12-31-2017, 05:34 PM   #12
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Just on the idea of there being many others claiming to be the Promised One in the 19th Century, there were also many other who claimed to be the Messiah around Jesus' time. So that in itself doesn't disprove there being an authentic Messiah. (e.g. Simon Bar Kokhba more literally fulfilled Jewish expectations of a conquering Messiah that will 'rule with an iron rod' than Jesus did, which is why so many accepted him as the Messiah during his revolt against the Romans.)
But over the centuries, because of Christianity's success, we can see which one won out.

I think it's important for any Christian to look at history and question why its been 2000 years since Jesus, almost twice as long as from Moses to Jesus, and society has changed so much, but Jesus' promise of returning according to Christians hasn't occurred.

Between Baha'u'llah and other claimants to the Return of Christ, I think it's up to the individual to look at their lives, their teachings, what they say about the world and how the world should be, and decide if any are true or what the differences are.

And I agree the Resurrection is a challenging concept for any Christian wanting to investigate the truth of the Baha'i Faith. It does seem to be very direct in the New Testament. I think there have been many posts on this topic you might want to look into, which often bring up the idea by Paul that the resurrected body is "a spiritual body, not a physical body".

Anyway, welcome to the Baha'i forums and hope to see you around here
 
Old 01-01-2018, 01:08 PM   #13
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I fear that I am too lowly and insignificant to have anything important to tell an Exalted One, being

just a

gnat
 
Old 01-01-2018, 02:54 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnat View Post
I fear that I am too lowly and insignificant to have anything important to tell an Exalted One, being

just a

gnat
Naw.

Along these lines, there is a poster on another forum called ABOVEITALL... How d'ya like that one?
 
Old 01-02-2018, 07:36 AM   #15
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Hello everybody, I am new to the forums, and a fellow human who also happens to be a devout Christian. Upon my investigation of many faiths, I have determined that Christianity is true.
Hello. I will attempt to answer the questions you pose, though perhaps out of order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExaltedOne View Post
Now, I ask you my friends, why do you believe the Bahá'í Faith is true, and why should I too?
First: I will not answer the second part of your question "and why should I too?" because it is not my place to answer that question. I can only give you the first part of the question, why I believe it.

Now, to start off I firmly believe that if God exists then Prophets must exist. There is no possible reason I can see why God would ever stop sending Prophets to humanity. Why would God ever cut off his half of communication from us?? Even the Christian Bible states that prophets came after Jesus (specifically in the Acts of the Apostles and the Book of Revelation recording such events), so it begs the question, "Why would God ever stop sending Prophets?"

So logically, to me, the only thing that really makes sense is a religion in which prophets are an ongoing process and not some aspect of the world that only happened in ancient times and now no longer occurs. Now on to the specific reason of why I believe in the specific prophets that I do:

I believe that the Baha'u'llah and (perhaps especially) the Bab are fulfillment of longstanding prophecies.

I am convinced of Baha'u'llah's station due to predictions of the future he made that have come true. Even discounting predictions that I myself find unimpressive, and assuming that perhaps one could predict future events with, say, an 80% chance of accuracy, doing the math, statistically speaking it is unlikely he is just a well-informed and lucky guesser.

I am convinced of Baha'u'llah's teachings in great part due to the book the Seven Valleys, which communicate to me ideas that I have never seen mentioned outside of the Taoist Faith before.

I am convinced of the Bab's station due to the miracle at his execution, and the multiple eyewitness accounts of his death, including from a Christian monk who thought the Bab was a blasphemer. And I am further convinced by the observations the Bab made in his writings (though I really wish more of his works were properly translated).

I am convinced of Abdu'l-Baha's station due to the predictions of the future he made, similar to how I am convinced of his father.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExaltedOne View Post
And why do you believe Bahá'u'lláh's message is true over any one else's message?
I want to address this one next because of the wording. I do not believe the message is true over anyone else's message.

I am a twice-convert. I was a Christian. I became a Taoist. I became a Baha'i.

But despite going through two conversions, I never once stopped believing a thing that I had previously believed. When I accepted the Truth of Lao Tzu I did not stop accepting the Truth of Jesus. And now in accepting the Truth of Baha'u'llah, the Bab, and Muhammad, I have still not stopped accepting the Truth of Jesus, Lao Tzu, and Chuang Tzu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExaltedOne View Post
There were many others like Bahá'u'lláh in the Islamic world in the 19th century, the most notable of these was Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, founder of Ahmadiyya Islam.
Now if you are asking specifically why Baha'u'llah and not Mirza Ghulam Ahmad,

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExaltedOne View Post
Bahá'u'lláh and Mirza Ahmad taught very similar things.
Did they??

I for one cannot find any instances of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad writing of the profound Unity of Good and Bad. In fact I find writings that would seem to contradict that Truth.

I cannot find any instances of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad writing on the topic of why the prophets are gifted with the miracles they are specifically given, as the Bab writes about in the Bayan, and as so thoroughly impressed me when I read it.

So the specific things written by Baha'u'llah and the Bab that convinced me of the Truth of those words, I cannot find present in Ahmad's work. Likewise the ideas that convince me of Lao Tzu, Chuang Tzu, and Jesus I cannot find in Ahmad's work.

On Ahmad's prophecies, things are a bit different:

Like with 'Abdu'l-Baha, I see prophecies and predictions attributed to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad that are said to have predicted the First World War but... Ahmad's prophecies on this subject remind me of the prophecies of Nostradomus, in that they are a bit vague and could be interpreted to mean a variety of things. There's a difference, in my opinion, in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad predicting "earthquakes" in the early 1900's and 'Abdu'l-Baha stating that in the year 1914 "a spark will rise from the Balkans and set the whole world on fire." I find the latter more specific, and thus convincing, than the former.

For Ahmad's predictions to be shown true, there would simply need to be any large disaster in the world in the early 1900's. For 'Abdu'l-Baha's predictions to have been true, there would need to be a specific event in the Balkans in 1914 that would have disastrous worldwide significance. Thus, I must find 'Abdu'l-Baha's prediction to be more impressive.

Oh, and I find that Ahmad's explanation for Quran 4:157 convoluted and over-complicated. I also find mainstream Islamic interpretation of 4:157 likewise convoluted and over-complicated. I think Quran 2:154 is sufficient to interpret 4:157, and thus am unlikely to accept Ahmad or anyone else who proposes an elaborate way to literally interpret 4:157.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExaltedOne View Post
So, why should I believe in one over the other?
But again, everything I have mentioned is just me. I cannot, will not, and should not answer for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExaltedOne View Post
Did either one of them rise from the dead?
Well yes. Both Baha'u'llah and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad rose from the dead. You are Christian, right?? Everyone rises from the dead and enters into the Kingdom, as Jesus taught. So yes on both of those accounts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExaltedOne View Post
Were either one of them exalted by God to the highest position as Lord?
Here's an instance where your comparison sort of breaks down.

Baha'u'llah and his predecessor the Bab both claimed to be Prophets of God in the highest station attainable for a human, the station claimed by Muhammad and all the major prophets of the world.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, on the other hand, explicitly claimed not to be of that station. He claimed to be a lesser prophet and explicitly denied any greater station. He believed the Quran would be the last book God ever sent mankind, and that God would only ever send future messengers to give the accurate interpretation of that book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExaltedOne View Post
Death and sin will be defeated. Yet here we are, still in a broken world. Nothing looks fulfilled to me.
And just to address this final point: You realize that this is the same reason the Jews refuse to accept Jesus as Messiah, correct? Death and Sin were to be defeated by the Messiah, and they were. It was the job of Jesus to bring an end to such things, and I believe he very much did, as likely you believe too as a Christian.

Next on this being a "broken world", I must disagree. This world is God's Creation and is thus incapable of imperfection. The world is as perfect as it can be. Though I understand why you would feel otherwise, as most people are stuck seeing imperfection in the world.

Last edited by Walrus; 01-02-2018 at 07:47 AM.
 
Old 01-02-2018, 05:01 PM   #16
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@Walrus, well said.
 
Old 01-03-2018, 06:22 AM   #17
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I always appreciate your thoughtful responses. And, I always learn something. Thank you!
 
Old 01-03-2018, 05:46 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by ExaltedOne View Post
Hello everybody, I am new to the forums, and a fellow human who also happens to be a devout Christian. Upon my investigation of many faiths, I have determined that Christianity is true. Now, I ask you my friends, why do you believe the Bahá'í Faith is true, and why should I too?

There were many others like Bahá'u'lláh in the Islamic world in the 19th century, the most notable of these was Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, founder of Ahmadiyya Islam. Bahá'u'lláh and Mirza Ahmad taught very similar things. So, why should I believe in one over the other? Did either one of them rise from the dead? Were either one of them exalted by God to the highest position as Lord? How did God vindicate one or the other? What did either one of them do to prove their message? And why do you believe Bahá'u'lláh's message is true over any one else's message?
I am not sure if you are here to instigate an argument or not, but nevertheless I will treat you as though you're an honest seeker, which you likely are. Welcome to the Baha'i forum!

To begin, the way I see it, Baha'i (Baha'u'llah's message) is NOT true over anyone else's message. To say that his message is true over Muhammad's, Jesus's, or Moses's messages, is simply and plainly incorrect and not progressive whatsoever. No, all of their messages are true, no one message is true over another. They are all on equal standing to me, for the fact that they just represent different periods in humanity's continued divine education.

Baha'u'llah proved his truth through a few means. One, which is much more easily dismissed than the rest, is his good character. Yes yes, so many people who have tried to start religions have 'good character', so that's hardly a real proving ground. As someone else has said, one that, while still somewhat dismissable to a much lesser extent, Baha'u'llah, even from a young age, had innate knowledge. He was definitely wise beyond his years, in that he picked up writing very early on and had such a grand understanding of language that his writings even as a child were more complex than the vocabularies of many adults (even today )

There's also the fact that he was accurate with prophecies of his own; Myriads of the things he predicted came to pass. One such example was his prediction of nuclear energy, or his prediction of the world wars, and many others.

He has also fulfilled the prophecies of various religions, ranging from huge, dominant religions like Christianity down to currently small faiths such as Zoroastrianism. Particularly relating to Christianity in various parts, I'd recommend a read of "Gems of Divine Mysteries", which talks about prophecies, the opening specifically giving some quotes from the New Testament and explaining them. I won't give you a summary of this for the fact that it's too complex to really summarize, that and it's short. Technically it's a letter. If you're not willing to read at least the opening pages I'm really not sure what to tell you haha!

I'm not sure what you mean by "Were either one of them exalted by God to the highest position as Lord?", so I won't be answering that.

If your belief stems from miracles like raising from the dead, you are blindly led astray by wizards and magicians. Honestly, if someone believes in Jesus because he raised from the dead, I would hardly call them Christians at all. People like Moses, like Jesus, Zoroaster, Buddha, Muhammad etc, did not spend all their time pouring out a beautiful message from God, just to have people believe in them for their miracles. Believing in someone for their miracles is completely misplaced faith. If you don't believe in someone for the message they taught, you don't believe in them, simply put. You believe in the idea of them. So "Did either one of them rise from the dead?" is an entirely pointless question which should have no bearing when talking about religion. Yes, these people could perform miracles. But that's not the point of what God was trying to tell us.

"How so? As a Christian I don't see how Baha'ullah could have fulfilled any prophecies, especially considering the fact that he was a mere man and not Christ the Lord who, when he returns, will restore all things. Death and sin will be defeated. Yet here we are, still in a broken world. Nothing looks fulfilled to me. "
That was so perfect that it may as well be an example in a Baha'i teaching book. Gems of Divine Mysteries, again, answers your doubts here. Specifically about the return of Christ, even.

And again, the whole raising from the dead thing. That doesn't matter. To be honest, when I was Christian, I struggled with the fact that so many people care about Jesus because he came back. Like a guy who resurrected 2000+ years ago is something that's a verifiable fact. The reason I love Jesus is because of his character, mission and teachings, not because he came back from the dead. Don't get me wrong, it's definitely a testament of God's power, but it isn't anything other than that. A testament of power over materiality. And focusing on that means you're not focusing on the transcendental; Jesus's message from God, which is much more important and awesome than any testament of power over the physical world.

May I ask what you mean when you ask if he was exalted in the highest position? All I can say is that Baha'u'llah's station was indeed very important.

Also, InvestigateTruth...
"Show me one other person who was living a wealthy and comfortable life, but He was willing to sacrifice all His wealth and comfort in order to establish a new Religion, or even a good idealogy."

Buddha. ((Watch me have missed a detail and be entirely incorrect))


Sorry if this sounded like I'm grouchy. I haven't had coffee.... All year
 
Old 01-20-2018, 08:55 AM   #19
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Dear ExaltedOne

There is a question you mentioned in your original post " Did either one of them rise from the dead?" and that means you believe Jesus Christ rose from the dead with His physical body. am I right?

Recently, I am studying Bible, every night. I REALLY enjoy reading it, and apart from the joy, it gives me food for thought. So there is a part in Bible, I read tonight that CLEARLY states that Jesus did not rose from the dead with His physical body. After I saw it, I wondered how any Christian could thought about it as a physical happening. So I would like to share with you the part I read:

1 Corinthians 15:35-58New International Version (NIV)
The Resurrection Body

35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[a]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we[b] bear the image of the heavenly man.

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[c]

55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”[d]

56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

I, Personally, felt completely satisfied with the answer Bible itself gave me. Maybe sometimes we have to read our own scripture with new eyes, new mind.
 
Old 01-20-2018, 10:23 AM   #20
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From: colorado/summer-Oklahoma/winter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maryamr View Post
Dear ExaltedOne

There is a question you mentioned in your original post " Did either one of them rise from the dead?" and that means you believe Jesus Christ rose from the dead with His physical body. am I right?

Recently, I am studying Bible, every night. I REALLY enjoy reading it, and apart from the joy, it gives me food for thought. So there is a part in Bible, I read tonight that CLEARLY states that Jesus did not rose from the dead with His physical body. After I saw it, I wondered how any Christian could thought about it as a physical happening. So I would like to share with you the part I read:

1 Corinthians 15:35-58New International Version (NIV)
The Resurrection Body

35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.

If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[a]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we[b] bear the image of the heavenly man.

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[c]

55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”[d]

56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

58 Therefore, my dear brothers and sisters, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.

I, Personally, felt completely satisfied with the answer Bible itself gave me. Maybe sometimes we have to read our own scripture with new eyes, new mind.
Beautiful, Maryamr, just beautiful. The Bible is amazingly relevant, when you really look! Seeking and finding, one of the dances of life.

Loving regards,
Becky
 
Old 01-20-2018, 10:52 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by becky View Post
Beautiful, Maryamr, just beautiful. The Bible is amazingly relevant, when you really look! Seeking and finding, one of the dances of life.

Loving regards,
Becky
thank you so much dear Becky. I agree with you about the relevancy of Bible. There is really the need to wash our eyes from the past learning so as to be able to see the deeper layers of the Bible.
 
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