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Old 12-31-2017, 11:18 PM   #1
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Lord of Lords and Lord of Hosts

What is the difference between the Lord of Lords and the Lord of Hosts? Baha’u’llah claims to be the Lord of Lords in His Tablet to the Pope.

“O Pope! Rend the veils asunder. He Who is the Lord of Lords is come overshadowed with clouds, and the decree hath been fulfilled by God, the Almighty, the Unrestrained. Dispel the mists through the power of thy Lord, and ascend unto the Kingdom of His names and attributes. Thus hath the Pen of the Most High commanded thee at the behest of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Compelling. He, verily, hath again come down from Heaven even as He came down from it the first time. Beware that thou dispute not with Him even as the Pharisees disputed with Him without a clear token or proof. On His right hand flow the living waters of grace, and on His left the choice Wine of justice, whilst before Him march the angels of Paradise, bearing the banners of His signs. Beware lest any name debar thee from God, the Creator of earth and heaven. Leave thou the world behind thee, and turn towards thy Lord, through Whom the whole earth hath been illumined......” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, pp. 54-55

Does Baha’u’llah also claim to be the Lord of Hosts in this passage? What does that mean, Lord of Hosts?

“The fear of God is the shield that defendeth His Cause, the buckler that enableth His people to attain to victory. It is a standard that no man can abase, a force that no power can rival. By its aid, and by the leave of Him Who is the Lord of Hosts, they that have drawn nigh unto God have been able to subdue and conquer the citadels of the hearts of men.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 272

A Jewish poster I am conversing with said he considers that idolatry. He said that the Lord of hosts is a Biblical name for God that appears in the Jewish Scriptures 245 times.
 
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Old 01-01-2018, 01:11 AM   #2
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Shoghi Effendi has detailed the Titles attributed to Baha'u'llah, it is good to read this section as you will also see the Titles attributed to the Bab.

Bahá'à Reference Library - God Passes By, Pages 89-103

".....To Israel He was neither more nor less than the incarnation of the “Everlasting Father,” the “Lord of Hosts” come down “with ten thousands of saints”; to Christendom Christ returned “in the glory of the Father,” to Shí’ah Islám the return of the Imám Husayn; to Sunní Islám the descent of the “Spirit of God” (Jesus Christ); to the Zoroastrians the promised Sháh-Bahrám; to the Hindus the reincarnation of Krishna; to the Buddhists the fifth Buddha.
In the name He bore He combined those of the Imám Husayn, the most illustrious of the successors of the Apostle of God—the brightest “star” shining in the “crown” mentioned in the Revelation of St. John—and of the Imám ‘Alí, the Commander of the Faithful, the second of the two “witnesses” extolled in that same Book. He was formally designated Bahá’u’lláh, an appellation specifically recorded in the Persian Bayán, signifying at once the glory, the light and the splendor of God, and was styled the “Lord of Lords,” the “Most Great Name,” the “Ancient Beauty,” the “Pen of the Most High,” the “Hidden Name,” the “Preserved Treasure,” “He Whom God will make manifest,” the “Most Great Light,” the “All-Highest Horizon,” the “Most Great Ocean,” the “Supreme Heaven,” the “Pre-Existent Root,” the “Self-Subsistent,” the “Day-Star of the Universe,” the “Great Announcement,” the “Speaker on Sinai,” the “Sifter of Men,” the “Wronged One of the World,” the “Desire of the Nations,” the “Lord of the Covenant,” the “Tree beyond which there is no passing.”...."

Regards Tony
 
Old 01-01-2018, 01:49 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfish58 View Post
Shoghi Effendi has detailed the Titles attributed to Baha'u'llah, it is good to read this section as you will also see the Titles attributed to the Bab.

Bahá'à Reference Library - God Passes By, Pages 89-103

".....To Israel He was neither more nor less than the incarnation of the “Everlasting Father,” the “Lord of Hosts” come down “with ten thousands of saints”; to Christendom Christ returned “in the glory of the Father,” to Shí’ah Islám the return of the Imám Husayn; to Sunní Islám the descent of the “Spirit of God” (Jesus Christ); to the Zoroastrians the promised Sháh-Bahrám; to the Hindus the reincarnation of Krishna; to the Buddhists the fifth Buddha.
In the name He bore He combined those of the Imám Husayn, the most illustrious of the successors of the Apostle of God—the brightest “star” shining in the “crown” mentioned in the Revelation of St. John—and of the Imám ‘Alí, the Commander of the Faithful, the second of the two “witnesses” extolled in that same Book. He was formally designated Bahá’u’lláh, an appellation specifically recorded in the Persian Bayán, signifying at once the glory, the light and the splendor of God, and was styled the “Lord of Lords,” the “Most Great Name,” the “Ancient Beauty,” the “Pen of the Most High,” the “Hidden Name,” the “Preserved Treasure,” “He Whom God will make manifest,” the “Most Great Light,” the “All-Highest Horizon,” the “Most Great Ocean,” the “Supreme Heaven,” the “Pre-Existent Root,” the “Self-Subsistent,” the “Day-Star of the Universe,” the “Great Announcement,” the “Speaker on Sinai,” the “Sifter of Men,” the “Wronged One of the World,” the “Desire of the Nations,” the “Lord of the Covenant,” the “Tree beyond which there is no passing.”...."

Regards Tony
Thanks SO MUCH Tony... You just bailed me out of a pile of trouble I got myself into... I am good at that.
 
Old 01-01-2018, 02:41 PM   #4
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailblazer View Post
Thanks SO MUCH Tony... You just bailed me out of a pile of trouble I got myself into... I am good at that.
Ha ha, we all do that. The Station if Baha'u'llah is beyond our Grasp, so much more our One God.

That is Why Baha'u'llah (as all God Messengers are) can be God to us and either/or as being known as a specific designation.

We know that Worship of God can be direct of directed through His Manifestation, with worship directed through the Manifestation the best option, I see that because it is less likely to be our own thoughts.

In the Past there has been deep discussion on this Forum about these issues. The key is we are never to argue about it, or then we are both wrong.

Stay well and happy. Regards Tony
 
Old 01-01-2018, 04:57 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by tonyfish58 View Post
Ha ha, we all do that.
I'll bet I get the prize though.

Quote:
The Station if Baha'u'llah is beyond our Grasp, so much more our One God.
Ain't that the truth.

Quote:
That is Why Baha'u'llah (as all God Messengers are) can be God to us and either/or as being known as a specific designation.
We know that Worship of God can be direct of directed through His Manifestation, with worship directed through the Manifestation the best option, I see that because it is less likely to be our own thoughts.

In the Past there has been deep discussion on this Forum about these issues. The key is we are never to argue about it, or then we are both wrong.
That sounds interesting. I guess we all have our own preferences.

Quote:
Stay well and happy. Regards Tony
Thanks... I am well enough physically but right now going through some major tests so happy eludes me. It could be worse though (I keep telling myself).... It is just the material world of dust... I wish it would just dry up and blow away
 
Old 01-01-2018, 05:24 PM   #6
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"The key is we are never to argue about it, or then we are both wrong."
This is excellent wisdom!!

Thanks for the great discussion.
 
Old 01-02-2018, 01:14 AM   #7
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticMonist View Post
"The key is we are never to argue about it, or then we are both wrong."
This is excellent wisdom!!

Thanks for the great discussion.
Yes Baha'u'llah offers us the greatest wisdom

Further to above, these are passages that give thought to what has been said to date;

CXXVII. "If it be your wish, O people, to know God and to discover the greatness of His might, look, then, upon Me with Mine own eyes, and not with the eyes of any one besides Me. Ye will, otherwise, be never capable of recognizing Me, though ye ponder My Cause as long as My Kingdom endureth, and meditate upon all created things throughout the eternity of God, the Sovereign Lord of all, the Omnipotent, the Ever-Abiding, the All-Wise. Thus have We manifested the truth of Our Revelation, that haply the people may be roused from their heedlessness, and be of them that understand." Baha'u'llah : Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah

CXLVIII. "O Salman! All that the sages and mystics have said or written have never exceeded, nor can they ever hope to exceed, the limitations to which man's finite mind hath been strictly subjected. To whatever heights the mind of the most exalted of men may soar, however great the depths which the detached and understanding heart can penetrate, such mind and heart can never transcend that which is the creature of their own conceptions and the product of their own thoughts. The meditations of the profoundest thinker, the devotions of the holiest of saints, the highest expressions of praise from either human pen or tongue, are but a reflection of that which hath been created within themselves, through the revelation of the Lord, their God. Whoever pondereth this truth in his heart will readily admit that there are certain limits which no human being can possibly transgress. Every attempt which, from the beginning that hath no beginning, hath been made to visualize and know God is limited by the exigencies of His own creation -- a creation which He, through the operation of His own Will and for the purposes of none other but His own Self, hath called into being. Immeasurably exalted is He above the strivings of human mind to grasp His Essence, or of human tongue to describe His mystery. No tie of direct intercourse can ever bind Him to the things He hath created, nor can the most abstruse and most remote allusions of His creatures do justice to His being. Through His world-pervading Will He hath brought into being all created things. He is and hath ever been veiled in the ancient eternity of His own exalted and indivisible Essence, and will everlastingly continue to remain concealed in His inaccessible majesty and glory. All that is in heaven and all that is in the earth have come to exist at His bidding, and by His Will all have stepped out of utter nothingness into the realm of being. How can, therefore, the creature which the Word of God hath fashioned comprehend the nature of Him Who is the Ancient of Days?" Baha'u'llah : Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah

"The knowledge of the Reality of the Divinity is impossible and unattainable, but the knowledge of the Manifestations of God is the knowledge of God, for the bounties, splendors, and divine attributes are apparent in them. Therefore if man attains to the knowledge of the Manifestations of God, he will attain to the knowledge of God; and if he be neglectful of the knowledge of the Holy Manifestation, he will be bereft of the knowledge of God. It is then ascertained and proved that the Holy Manifestations are the center of the bounty, signs, and perfections of God. Blessed are those who receive the light of the divine bounties from the enlightened Dawning-points!" Abdu'l-Baha : Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section

Hope you are well, Regards Tony
 
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