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Old 01-04-2018, 07:42 AM   #1
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Gods test to Humans.

today I am wondering if accepting the Bahá'í faith is a test which is equal to all humans. The Muslims are tested with The Quran stating that Mohammad is the last prophet which Bahá'u'lláh says

Know verily that the purpose underlying all these symbolic terms and abstruse allusions, which emanate from the Revealers of God's holy Cause, hath been to test and prove the peoples of the world; that thereby the earth of the pure and illuminated hearts may be known from the perishable and barren soil. From time immemorial such hath been the way of God amidst His creatures, and to this testify the records of the sacred books. (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 47)

Questions
How is Symbolic terminology a test of moral character to humans it sounds more like an intellectual test ?
Are all humans tested equally even those born into Bahá'í familys?
Is accepting the Bahá'í faith An indication of passing the tests required
 
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Old 01-04-2018, 03:47 PM   #2
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Yousefy2 - I have no doubt this Faith is a test for both believers and those still yet to believe.

It could be it is is the greatest test we will face. Saying I believe, opens up obligations that we may have never previoisly considered.

Alif, Lam, Meem 29:2 "Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" and they will not be tried?"

And Baha'u'llah quoting this;

".....the Almighty hath tried, and will continue to try, his servants, so that light may be distinguished from darkness, truth from falsehood, right from wrong, guidance from error, happiness from misery, and roses from thorns. Even as He hath revealed: ‘Do men think when they say “We believe” they shall be let alone and not be put to proof?’"(Bahá’u’lláh, Kitáb-i-Íqán, pp. 8-9.)

Regards Tony
 
Old 01-05-2018, 10:17 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
today I am wondering if accepting the Bahá'í faith is a test which is equal to all humans. The Muslims are tested with The Quran stating that Mohammad is the last prophet which Bahá'u'lláh says

Know verily that the purpose underlying all these symbolic terms and abstruse allusions, which emanate from the Revealers of God's holy Cause, hath been to test and prove the peoples of the world; that thereby the earth of the pure and illuminated hearts may be known from the perishable and barren soil. From time immemorial such hath been the way of God amidst His creatures, and to this testify the records of the sacred books. (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 47)

Questions
How is Symbolic terminology a test of moral character to humans it sounds more like an intellectual test ?
Are all humans tested equally even those born into Bahá'í familys?
Is accepting the Bahá'í faith An indication of passing the tests required
No, it is not an equal test for all. As you said, some are born into a Baha'i family and it is easier for them. In the far future it will be more evident that the Baha'i Faith is the truth when the victory arrives:

When the victory arriveth, every man shall profess himself as believer and shall hasten to the shelter of God's Faith. Happy are they who in the days of world-encompassing trials have stood fast in the Cause and refused to swerve from its truth.
(Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 319)

I think Baha'u'llah implies here that those who live in the times when we are more tested, are rewarded greater.

Last edited by Duane; 01-05-2018 at 10:27 AM.
 
Old 01-05-2018, 10:45 AM   #4
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duane View Post
No, it is not an equal test for all. As you said, some are born into a Baha'i family and it is easier for them. In the far future it will be more evident that the Baha'i Faith is the truth when the victory arrives:
Why do you think it is easier for a person Born into the Baha'i Faith? God will test all that make the declaration 'I am a Baha'i'.

Why are there Persian born Baha'is and their Children leaving the Faith, if it is an easy path for those born into the Faith?

Personally I see that all of us are tested on our sincerity of the commitment we have made. No soul is exempt from the influences of this world, but to the extent each makes an effort to overcome self.

Regards Tony
 
Old 01-05-2018, 03:26 PM   #5
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Interesting discussion, thanks for the opinions. Can anyone make any comment on how symbolic terms such as Mohammad being the last prophet can be an test of purity of heart as it seems as its an intellectual test from the surface level, interested in hearing your thoughts on that.

'Know verily that the purpose underlying all these symbolic terms and abstruse allusions, which emanate from the Revealers of God's holy Cause, hath been to test and prove the peoples of the world; that thereby the earth of the pure and illuminated hearts may be known from the perishable and barren soil. From time immemorial such hath been the way of God amidst His creatures, and to this testify the records of the sacred books.'
 
Old 01-05-2018, 06:15 PM   #6
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
Interesting discussion, thanks for the opinions. Can anyone make any comment on how symbolic terms such as Mohammad being the last prophet can be an test of purity of heart as it seems as its an intellectual test from the surface level, interested in hearing your thoughts on that.

'Know verily that the purpose underlying all these symbolic terms and abstruse allusions, which emanate from the Revealers of God's holy Cause, hath been to test and prove the peoples of the world; that thereby the earth of the pure and illuminated hearts may be known from the perishable and barren soil. From time immemorial such hath been the way of God amidst His creatures, and to this testify the records of the sacred books.'
I see the title as Seal of the Prophets as both an intellectual and spiritual test of Faith.

If one had been indocrinated with this thought, that no other Message was to be given, but has maintained a heart that is pure. Then this barrier is that of the intellect until they hear there is an alternate view. It is now the heart that must guide the person to tear usunder this inellectual barrier. The journey of discovery will now be a battle between heart and intellect.

Regards Tony
 
Old 01-06-2018, 07:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonyfish58 View Post
Why do you think it is easier for a person Born into the Baha'i Faith? God will test all that make the declaration 'I am a Baha'i'.

Why are there Persian born Baha'is and their Children leaving the Faith, if it is an easy path for those born into the Faith?

Personally I see that all of us are tested on our sincerity of the commitment we have made. No soul is exempt from the influences of this world, but to the extent each makes an effort to overcome self.

Regards Tony
I didn't say it was easy, just that it was easier. When you are born into a Baha'i family, it is more likely that will become a Baha'i. Thus it has to be easier.
 
Old 01-06-2018, 07:10 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
today I am wondering if accepting the Bahá'í faith is a test which is equal to all humans. The Muslims are tested with The Quran stating that Mohammad is the last prophet which Bahá'u'lláh says

Know verily that the purpose underlying all these symbolic terms and abstruse allusions, which emanate from the Revealers of God's holy Cause, hath been to test and prove the peoples of the world; that thereby the earth of the pure and illuminated hearts may be known from the perishable and barren soil. From time immemorial such hath been the way of God amidst His creatures, and to this testify the records of the sacred books. (Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 47)

Questions
How is Symbolic terminology a test of moral character to humans it sounds more like an intellectual test ?
Are all humans tested equally even those born into Bahá'í familys?
Is accepting the Bahá'í faith An indication of passing the tests required
The term 'Seal of Prophets', is the same type of test as 'virgin birth' was for the Jews, and 'manslaughter of Moses' was for the Israelites.
In all these cases, such obstacles can cause doubt in the hearts. Only those who investigate with a clean and unbiased heart can remove these obstacles and pass the test. The symbolic terms, when interpreted outwardly, they become an obstacle to recognize the new Manifestation. Only those who are truly searching after truth, and investigate with an unbiased heart will be able to find and accept the inner meanings, and can pass from these obstacles.
A new manifestation is always a test. In my understanding, He creates even certain tests by His words and deeds. I would even think the story of assassination of the king of Persia was also meant to create a test, otherwise was not God able to stop those few Bab'is who attempted to kill the king, so that the Babi's and Bahaullah would not become known as assassins? It has a similarity with the story of Moses who became known for manslaughter. Bahaullah in Iqan explains it in details.

Last edited by InvestigateTruth; 01-06-2018 at 07:26 AM.
 
Old 01-06-2018, 12:42 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by InvestigateTruth View Post
The term 'Seal of Prophets', is the same type of test as 'virgin birth' was for the Jews, and 'manslaughter of Moses' was for the Israelites.
In all these cases, such obstacles can cause doubt in the hearts. Only those who investigate with a clean and unbiased heart can remove these obstacles and pass the test. The symbolic terms, when interpreted outwardly, they become an obstacle to recognize the new Manifestation. Only those who are truly searching after truth, and investigate with an unbiased heart will be able to find and accept the inner meanings, and can pass from these obstacles.
A new manifestation is always a test. In my understanding, He creates even certain tests by His words and deeds. I would even think the story of assassination of the king of Persia was also meant to create a test, otherwise was not God able to stop those few Bab'is who attempted to kill the king, so that the Babi's and Bahaullah would not become known as assassins? It has a similarity with the story of Moses who became known for manslaughter. Bahaullah in Iqan explains it in details.
Thanks for the input it has illuminated me further, can you share your opinion on why God expects someone to be searching or investigating bahaullahs claim when that person may believe they already have the truth how can he be held liable when he thinks he has the truth ?
 
Old 01-06-2018, 01:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousefy
Thanks for the input it has illuminated me further, can you share your opinion on why God expects someone to be searching or investigating bahaullahs claim when that person may believe they already have the truth how can he be held liable when he thinks he has the truth ?
Obstacle race. The horse learns to jump higher and higher, surpassing limitations.

The Seal of Prophecies creates a dimension of light, and a gate that is sealed. When the gate is opened, we experience a larger dimension of grandeur, grandeur which is made comprehensible through the former limitation.
 
Old 01-06-2018, 02:14 PM   #11
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
Thanks for the input it has illuminated me further, can you share your opinion on why God expects someone to be searching or investigating bahaullahs claim when that person may believe they already have the truth how can he be held liable when he thinks he has the truth ?
My idea is that we will never stop looking for Truth. All the Holy books of the Past have told we await another day of God and when fulfilled in Baha'u'llah, He has said this will continue.

Thus our Truth is Relative to our age and given so we can perfect out Souls.

What we do know is that a Thousand years must pass before the next Manifestation and Baha'u'llah has set our minds that must be so. Will this be a Test? God doeth as He Willeth!

I know once we accept Baha'u'llah we have not automatically found the meaning of Truth. We are still very restricted by self in Nature and Nurture.

"The good deeds of the righteous are the sins of the near ones" Baha'u'llah.

Regards Tony

Last edited by tonyfish58; 01-06-2018 at 02:17 PM.
 
Old 01-06-2018, 03:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
Thanks for the input it has illuminated me further, can you share your opinion on why God expects someone to be searching or investigating bahaullahs claim when that person may believe they already have the truth how can he be held liable when he thinks he has the truth ?
Scriptures seems to suggest these analogies: When the time of a Religion is passed, its Laws and ordinances does not provide the light anymore. Its sun and moon are darkened. Its light of guidance is faded. Therefore a true seeker of truth would feel the need to search for the light.
Moreover, all previous religions promised of a future Manifestation, such as Mahdi of Islam, or return of Christ. If they hear of Bahaullah, they would investigate His claim and proofs.
 
Old 01-06-2018, 03:58 PM   #13
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Perfect

Amazing answers here, very satisfied. Alláh’u’Abhá may God bless you all
 
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