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Old 01-05-2018, 02:45 PM   #1
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The Three Wise Men

Tomorrow Sat 06/01/18 is the Feast of the Epiphany. The day when the Christian Church commemorates the three wise men's pilgrimage to pay homage to the infant Jesus. These men Balthazar, Melchior and Caspar were known collectively as the Magi, probably priests. Here's an interesting fact, the perceived wisdom is that they came from Persia/Iran.
 
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Old 01-05-2018, 04:34 PM   #2
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The greek noun "magoi" was used to refer to Zoroastrian priests. Therefore they are not only Persian but also officials of another revealed Faith.
 
Old 01-06-2018, 10:43 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by AidanK View Post
Tomorrow Sat 06/01/18 is the Feast of the Epiphany. The day when the Christian Church commemorates the three wise men's pilgrimage to pay homage to the infant Jesus. These men Balthazar, Melchior and Caspar were known collectively as the Magi, probably priests. Here's an interesting fact, the perceived wisdom is that they came from Persia/Iran.
Also interesting of note, some believe them to have been Zorastrians from within the mystery school of the Magi. The expanded influence of the Magi supposedly extended from the copied writings out of Alexandria carried by other scholars far and wide (prior to the burning of books [scrolls] by the Romans).
 
Old 01-06-2018, 02:53 PM   #4
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I'm aware that they are thought by some to be Zoarastrian Mystics from Saba also known as Sheba

Last edited by AidanK; 01-06-2018 at 02:58 PM.
 
Old 01-06-2018, 03:07 PM   #5
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I'm aware that they are thought by some to be Zoarastrian Mystics from Saba also known as Sheba
There is an interesting Zoroastrian Prophecy that talks of 3 seperate Dispensations, I wonder if it is significant as to the Number of Wise Men? There are records that dispute tgis number.

Abdul'baha gave this interpretation;

“Thou hadst written that in the sacred books of the followers of Zoroaster it is written that in the latter days, in three separate Dispensations, the sun must needs be brought to a standstill. In the first Dispensation, it is predicted, the sun will remain motionless for ten days; in the second for twice that time; in the third for no less than one whole month. The interpretation of this prophecy is this: the first Dispensation to which it refers is the Muḥammadan Dispensation during which the Sun of Truth stood still for ten days. Each day is reckoned as one century. The Muḥammadan Dispensation must have, therefore, lasted no less than one thousand years, which is precisely the period that has elapsed from the setting of the Star of the Imamate to the advent of the Dispensation proclaimed by the Báb. The second Dispensation referred to in this prophecy is the one inaugurated by the Báb Himself, which began in the year 1260 A.H. and was brought to a close in the year 1280 A.H. As to the third Dispensation—the Revelation proclaimed by Bahá’u’lláh—inasmuch as the Sun of Truth when attaining that station shineth in the plenitude of its meridian splendor its duration hath been fixed for a period of one whole month, which is the maximum time taken by the sun to pass through a sign of the Zodiac. From this thou canst imagine the magnitude of the Bahá’í cycle—a cycle that must extend over a period of at least five hundred thousand years.”

Hope.yoi had a great Christ filled celebration and all is well.

Regards Tony
 
Old 01-06-2018, 05:56 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by tonyfish58 View Post
There is an interesting Zoroastrian Prophecy that talks of 3 seperate Dispensations, I wonder if it is significant as to the Number of Wise Men? There are records that dispute tgis number.

Abdul'baha gave this interpretation;

“Thou hadst written that in the sacred books of the followers of Zoroaster it is written that in the latter days, in three separate Dispensations, the sun must needs be brought to a standstill. In the first Dispensation, it is predicted, the sun will remain motionless for ten days; in the second for twice that time; in the third for no less than one whole month. The interpretation of this prophecy is this: the first Dispensation to which it refers is the Muḥammadan Dispensation during which the Sun of Truth stood still for ten days. Each day is reckoned as one century. The Muḥammadan Dispensation must have, therefore, lasted no less than one thousand years, which is precisely the period that has elapsed from the setting of the Star of the Imamate to the advent of the Dispensation proclaimed by the Báb. The second Dispensation referred to in this prophecy is the one inaugurated by the Báb Himself, which began in the year 1260 A.H. and was brought to a close in the year 1280 A.H. As to the third Dispensation—the Revelation proclaimed by Bahá’u’lláh—inasmuch as the Sun of Truth when attaining that station shineth in the plenitude of its meridian splendor its duration hath been fixed for a period of one whole month, which is the maximum time taken by the sun to pass through a sign of the Zodiac. From this thou canst imagine the magnitude of the Bahá’í cycle—a cycle that must extend over a period of at least five hundred thousand years.”

Hope.yoi had a great Christ filled celebration and all is well.

Regards Tony
Surely by this reckoning then the Babs dispensation should last two thousand years?
 
Old 01-06-2018, 06:18 PM   #7
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Surely by this reckoning then the Babs dispensation should last two thousand years?
Yes I was also thinking this, trying to balance the numbers.

I have reconciled the first two by this reasoning of Prophecy in both Scriptures.

In Islam I found that a day can be 100 years

"....The angel said: "For how long did you sleep?" He said: "A day or part of a day." He said this because he knew he had slept early in the afternoon and woke up late in the afternoon. The angel said: "You remained asleep for one hundred years." He ate and drank the food which he had prepared before he was overtaken by that long sleep. Then the angel revived his donkey.
Almighty Allah said: "And look at your donkey! And thus We have made of you a sign for the people. Look at the bones, how We bring them together and clothe them with flesh." When this was clearly shown to him he said: "I know (now) that Allah is able to do all things." Surah 2: 259

So with Muhammad we can use the Koran to confirm this part of the Prophecy

Now with the Bab we can Use the Bible Prophecy Formula, ' Each day for a year", 20 days is 20 years.

Now for Baha'u'llah and the Month being a long time and at least 500,000 years? I guess I would have to consider this, maybe someone else may know.

In all this we need to be very knowledgeable in all scriptures, to which I fall very short

Regards Tony
 
Old 01-07-2018, 05:37 AM   #8
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Surely by this reckoning then the Babs dispensation should last two thousand years?
The meaning of each number of days doesn't have to be consistent with each other.
 
Old 01-07-2018, 02:41 PM   #9
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The meaning of each number of days doesn't have to be consistent with each other.
But then you run the risk of being accused of making up the rules to suit yourself!
 
Old 01-07-2018, 05:39 PM   #10
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But then you run the risk of being accused of making up the rules to suit yourself!
Yes that is so Aidan. That is our test in life, to determine all proof on its own merit.

But accusations are given even when the Numbers are even more compelling, as per Daniel and Revelation.

When a Baha'i uses numbers from Daniel to first prove Christ and that Christ would return in 1844, then that is what is said by many people.

It matters not it was not the Baha'is but Christains that first came up with that particular formula prior to 1844 and it was not until the Message of the Bab and Baha'u'llah came more widely known to have coincided with those dates, that the Baha'is used them to show a wider audience, thus opening up more study into this matter.

I hope you are doing well Aidan, Regards Tony
 
Old 01-08-2018, 05:56 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by AidanK View Post
Tomorrow Sat 06/01/18 is the Feast of the Epiphany. The day when the Christian Church commemorates the three wise men's pilgrimage to pay homage to the infant Jesus. These men Balthazar, Melchior and Caspar
Their names aren't actually found in scripture, but in later legends. In fact, there's not even a definitive number of Magi given in the Bible, it seems Christians assumed that there were three because they brought three gifts. (as they were Zoroastrians and three is a holy number in Zoroastrianism (it represents the three rights: Right Thoughts, Right Words, and Right Deeds), they would have likely brought three gifts regardless of if the number of Magi was two or twenty.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AidanK View Post
were known collectively as the Magi, probably priests. Here's an interesting fact, the perceived wisdom is that they came from Persia/Iran.
The Greek word of "Magi" is the word they used to describe Zoroastrian priests, so theoretically any person writing in Greek would only choose that word if indeed they were priests from Persia.

If you are interested in the topic, I highly recommend the book The Man Who Sent the Magi written by the Baha'i author Douglas Roper Krotz, which explores in detail the connection between Zoroaster and Jesus, and their respective messages.

I am confused by the lack of interest I see in most Christians in this topic. One would think that the appearance of Zoroastrian priests hailing Jesus as the promised Saoshyant would be something Christians would be interested in discussing but... in my experience they're not too interested in the topic. To my knowledge there are more Baha'i written books talking about the significance of the Magi being Zoroastrian than there are Christian-written books on the topic.

Last edited by Walrus; 01-08-2018 at 06:00 AM.
 
Old 01-08-2018, 04:31 PM   #12
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Their names aren't actually found in scripture, but in later legends. In fact, there's not even a definitive number of Magi given in the Bible, it seems Christians assumed that there were three because they brought three gifts. (as they were Zoroastrians and three is a holy number in Zoroastrianism (it represents the three rights: Right Thoughts, Right Words, and Right Deeds), they would have likely brought three gifts regardless of if the number of Magi was two or twenty.)



The Greek word of "Magi" is the word they used to describe Zoroastrian priests, so theoretically any person writing in Greek would only choose that word if indeed they were priests from Persia.

If you are interested in the topic, I highly recommend the book The Man Who Sent the Magi written by the Baha'i author Douglas Roper Krotz, which explores in detail the connection between Zoroaster and Jesus, and their respective messages.

I am confused by the lack of interest I see in most Christians in this topic. One would think that the appearance of Zoroastrian priests hailing Jesus as the promised Saoshyant would be something Christians would be interested in discussing but... in my experience they're not too interested in the topic. To my knowledge there are more Baha'i written books talking about the significance of the Magi being Zoroastrian than there are Christian-written books on the topic.
The fulfilling of Jewish prophecy is most significant for Christians
 
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