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Old 01-26-2018, 06:35 AM   #1
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Self reliance / self trust

Does the Bahá'í writings Ever talk about trusting ourselves?
 
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Old 01-26-2018, 07:04 AM   #2
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"O SON OF SPIRIT! Noble have I created thee, yet thou hast abased thyself. Rise then unto that for which thou wast created." (Baha'u'llah, Arabic Hidden Words 22)

There are a number of passages in the Hidden Words that state things to the effect of "I have created you to be awesome, do not lessen yourself."

"O MY SERVANT! Thou art even as a finely tempered sword concealed in the darkness of its sheath and its value hidden from the artificer’s knowledge. Wherefore come forth from the sheath of self and desire that thy worth may be made resplendent and manifest unto all the world."

"O MY FRIEND! Thou art the daystar of the heavens of My holiness, let not the defilement of the world eclipse thy splendor. Rend asunder the veil of heedlessness, that from behind the clouds thou mayest emerge resplendent and array all things with the apparel of life."

"O SON OF BEING! With the hands of power I made thee and with the fingers of strength I created thee; and within thee have I placed the essence of My light. Be thou content with it and seek naught else, for My work is perfect and My command is binding. Question it not, nor have a doubt thereof."

"O SON OF SPIRIT! I created thee rich, why dost thou bring thyself down to poverty? Noble I made thee, wherewith dost thou abase thyself? Out of the essence of knowledge I gave thee being, why seekest thou enlightenment from anyone beside Me? Out of the clay of love I molded thee, how dost thou busy thyself with another? Turn thy sight unto thyself, that thou mayest find Me standing within thee, mighty, powerful and self-subsisting."

"O SON OF BEING! Thou art My lamp and My light is in thee. Get thou from it thy radiance and seek none other than Me. For I have created thee rich and have bountifully shed My favor upon thee."

Last edited by Walrus; 01-26-2018 at 07:08 AM.
 
Old 01-26-2018, 08:26 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walrus View Post
"O SON OF SPIRIT! Noble have I created thee, yet thou hast abased thyself. Rise then unto that for which thou wast created." (Baha'u'llah, Arabic Hidden Words 22)

There are a number of passages in the Hidden Words that state things to the effect of "I have created you to be awesome, do not lessen yourself."

"O MY SERVANT! Thou art even as a finely tempered sword concealed in the darkness of its sheath and its value hidden from the artificer’s knowledge. Wherefore come forth from the sheath of self and desire that thy worth may be made resplendent and manifest unto all the world."

"O MY FRIEND! Thou art the daystar of the heavens of My holiness, let not the defilement of the world eclipse thy splendor. Rend asunder the veil of heedlessness, that from behind the clouds thou mayest emerge resplendent and array all things with the apparel of life."

"O SON OF BEING! With the hands of power I made thee and with the fingers of strength I created thee; and within thee have I placed the essence of My light. Be thou content with it and seek naught else, for My work is perfect and My command is binding. Question it not, nor have a doubt thereof."

"O SON OF SPIRIT! I created thee rich, why dost thou bring thyself down to poverty? Noble I made thee, wherewith dost thou abase thyself? Out of the essence of knowledge I gave thee being, why seekest thou enlightenment from anyone beside Me? Out of the clay of love I molded thee, how dost thou busy thyself with another? Turn thy sight unto thyself, that thou mayest find Me standing within thee, mighty, powerful and self-subsisting."

"O SON OF BEING! Thou art My lamp and My light is in thee. Get thou from it thy radiance and seek none other than Me. For I have created thee rich and have bountifully shed My favor upon thee."
Very nice walrus, do you think this means we are safe to have self reliance?
 
Old 01-26-2018, 08:40 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
Very nice walrus, do you think this means we are safe to have self reliance?
I'd say this one specifically is a yes:

"O SON OF SPIRIT! I created thee rich, why dost thou bring thyself down to poverty? Noble I made thee, wherewith dost thou abase thyself? Out of the essence of knowledge I gave thee being, why seekest thou enlightenment from anyone beside Me? Out of the clay of love I molded thee, how dost thou busy thyself with another? Turn thy sight unto thyself, that thou mayest find Me standing within thee, mighty, powerful and self-subsisting."

The portion I have underlined is most relevant to self reliance. Turn thy sight unto thyself and God with you. But not just rely on yourself, but rely on yourself and God.
 
Old 01-26-2018, 10:04 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
Does the Bahá'í writings Ever talk about trusting ourselves?
8. O SON OF SPIRIT!
There is no peace for thee save by renouncing thyself and turning unto Me; for it behooveth thee to glory in My name, not in thine own; to put thy trust in Me and not in thyself, since I desire to be loved alone and above all that is.
(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)

We are to trust in God and just do the best we can.
 
Old 01-26-2018, 01:30 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
Does the Bahá'í writings Ever talk about trusting ourselves?
As posted above my understanding is that we only ever put trust in God within, with His Laws.

All good from us is that of God and His Laws, all evil from us is of our own self.

In this part of a prayer, to me it is showing us we have to allow the Unconstrained to shine from us;

"..O my Lord, this stranger hastening to his most exalted home beneath the canopy of Thy majesty and within the precincts of Thy mercy; and this transgressor seeking the ocean of Thy forgiveness; and this lowly one the court of Thy glory; and this poor creature the orient of Thy wealth. Thine is the authority to command whatsoever Thou willest. I bear witness that Thou art to be praised in Thy doings, and to be obeyed in Thy behests, and to remain unconstrained in Thy bidding..." Baha'u'llah : Prayers and Meditations by Baha'u'llah

It is our quandary what is from God and what is from our own selves. We do know that each day we are asked to bring ourselves to account, for very good reason, and each day we say Obligatory prayer which contains elements of acknowledging our weakness and that the Unconstrained may be the Light that shines from us.

Regards Tony
 
Old 01-27-2018, 01:39 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Duane View Post
8. O SON OF SPIRIT!
There is no peace for thee save by renouncing thyself and turning unto Me; for it behooveth thee to glory in My name, not in thine own; to put thy trust in Me and not in thyself, since I desire to be loved alone and above all that is.
(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)

We are to trust in God and just do the best we can.
Excellent post Duane. That is it. As Hand of the Cause Ugo Giachery told Lewis about 50 years ago, sincerity and effort is all God requires.

That is my favorite Hidden Word.
 
Old 01-27-2018, 07:42 AM   #8
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But when we are trying to follow the laws of god and what they mean and how they can be applied and interpretations differ from different people is there not an element of self trust involved?
 
Old 01-27-2018, 08:51 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
But when we are trying to follow the laws of god and what they mean and how they can be applied and interpretations differ from different people is there not an element of self trust involved?
Can you give an example when interpretations differ from different people? What Laws of God? Please give an example.
 
Old 01-27-2018, 10:12 AM   #10
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one example of the many Some say it does not matter what music you listen as long as you remain dignified and not overstep the bounds. Some say the music matters as well as how it effects you.(refer to my thread about music) Different opinions on one verse then there is a concept of self reliance of your opinion
 
Old 01-27-2018, 12:36 PM   #11
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But when we are trying to follow the laws of god and what they mean and how they can be applied and interpretations differ from different people is there not an element of self trust involved?
That is the quandry we face. When do we know we have given all self over to God?

Stories of Abdul'baha help us here, if we are not like Abdul'baha was, we still have self.

Regards Tony
 
Old 01-27-2018, 12:42 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
one example of the many Some say it does not matter what music you listen as long as you remain dignified and not overstep the bounds. Some say the music matters as well as how it effects you.(refer to my thread about music) Different opinions on one verse then there is a concept of self reliance of your opinion
Yes great example. We can also consider that this law has a level of choice contained within it, wheras other Laws are clear in the options available.

What would Abdul'baha choose? That is our example to aim for.

Abdul'baha also said little by little day by day, this is how most of us change, a rare few jump the Valleys.

Regards Tony
 
Old 01-27-2018, 03:47 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
one example of the many Some say it does not matter what music you listen as long as you remain dignified and not overstep the bounds. Some say the music matters as well as how it effects you.(refer to my thread about music) Different opinions on one verse then there is a concept of self reliance of your opinion
The Laws are complete and clear. Baha'i scriptures, and writings of Shoghi Effendi, and Universal House of Justice, makes every single law clear. We do not need to take our own "guess", or use our own thinking to know what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. Everything that was needed was revealed and explained. It is like an ocean of knowledge. All we need to do, is to enter the ocean, and take our own portion according to our own capacity. We all have different capacities. But if we make an effort, and put our trust in God, He will guide us to the knowledge we need. If something in the Laws is not clear to us, it is not because it is not explained enough or clear in the Scriptures. It is because we have not studied or learned enough from scriptures. When we make an effort, and investigate it, and we ask God to make it clear to us, He will guide us. We do not put our trust in ourself. We trust in God.

Last edited by InvestigateTruth; 01-27-2018 at 03:50 PM.
 
Old 01-27-2018, 04:25 PM   #14
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The Laws are complete and clear.....
If something in the Laws is not clear to us, it is not because it is not explained enough or clear in the Scriptures. It is because we have not studied or learned enough from scriptures. When we make an effort, and investigate it, and we ask God to make it clear to us, He will guide us. We do not put our trust in ourself. We trust in God.
Well said, especially this part.... We do not put our trust in ourself. We trust in God.
 
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