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Old 02-07-2018, 02:28 PM   #1
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Nature and animals killing each other

Me and my mum were watching an nature animal documentary and mum asked why did create these animals for them to suffer as they are being eaten ? What is the bahai view on this
 
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Old 02-07-2018, 11:32 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
Me and my mum were watching an nature animal documentary and mum asked why did create these animals for them to suffer as they are being eaten ? What is the bahai view on this
This bothers me a lot, animal suffering, not only in the wild but domesticated animals also suffer...
So much for the loving God... I really wonder. I mean it is not for spiritual growth like our suffering and we do not even know if animals have an afterlife, so why does God allow this? To say that animals are here just for human happiness is not an answer I can live with as it is so self-serving and arrogant.

I have asked this of Baha'is before but they have no answers, because there are no answers.
 
Old 02-08-2018, 12:24 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailblazer View Post
This bothers me a lot, animal suffering, not only in the wild but domesticated animals also suffer...
So much for the loving God... I really wonder. I mean it is not for spiritual growth like our suffering and we do not even know if animals have an afterlife, so why does God allow this? To say that animals are here just for human happiness is not an answer I can live with as it is so self-serving and arrogant.

I have asked this of Baha'is before but they have no answers, because there are no answers.
Animals suffer sometimes but they also are not anxious creatures like we are. On the whole they take life as it comes. It may be they enjoy life more on the whole than they suffer, though this is not uniform. Some creatures I'm sure suffer a lot.
 
Old 02-08-2018, 05:31 PM   #4
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One thing to consider is that while there is suffering in the world it gives humans the opportunity to show compassion. We have the ability to reduce the suffering of other humans, and even animals, and that is a way we can grow spiritually.

In nature, just the fact of animals killing and eating each other does not mean that the animal which was eaten suffered much. I read that when a prey animal such as an antelope is killed by a predator such as a lion, their brain produces natural calming substances and they will give up struggling and die peacefully.
 
Old 02-08-2018, 05:32 PM   #5
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Animals are not worried about future, the way we are. They do not think, what if tomorrow I loose my child, my husband,..my job, ..my health. They only have feelings for right now. So, God is fair. They do not have a life after death, but at the same time they are not worry about future either. Some human beings are likened to some animals in Holy Books. Apes, pigs, cows, ...donkeys. Just different creatures of God. He did not create all the same.
 
Old 02-08-2018, 05:33 PM   #6
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Thank you guys for your inputs they always illumine me, you are all Bahá'u'lláh soldiers and servants and he has equipped you well!
 
Old 02-08-2018, 08:45 PM   #7
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As I expected, Baha'is try to minimize the suffering of animals like they do not matter. They seem to think that animals are only here as a service to humans, something we can benefit from and enjoy, something for their spiritual growth.

Animals do suffer, in the wild and domestically. Abdu'l-Baha even said that animals suffer just as much as humans. An atheist I posted to for a long time who was also a scientist pointed this out to me as one reason the kind of God Baha'is believe in cannot exist. Only because of Baha'u'llah do I believe in God, but that does not mean I have to like God. I will take my punishment if that lands me in hell and I will have lots of friends there because many people I have befriended are nonbelievers.

There is no excuse as far as I am concerned as to why God allows animals to suffer, UNLESS they have an afterlife in the spiritual world. I think they do have an afterlife but we do not know because I guess God did not think it was important enough to reveal to any Manifestation of God... I do not blame Baha'u'llah for that as the buck stops with God. God runs the post office, Baha'u'llah just picks up and delivers the mail.

As far as God being a loving God, the jury is out as far as I am concerned. I am sure God knows I feel this way so my stating it here does not matter. I sleep better when I am honest.

Last edited by Trailblazer; 02-08-2018 at 10:25 PM.
 
Old 02-09-2018, 06:55 AM   #8
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Hmmm. I started thinking up a response but then soon realized that to respond in full it would require me to write up a long post on the problem of suffering in general, breaking down that problem, explaining Taoist and Buddhist philosophy around suffering and escape from suffering, and how those answers relate to the Baha'i theology...

So before I do such a thing, would anyone actually find value in such a post?? I figure that might be an over-complicated response and so I probably shouldn't clog up the thread with such a thing unless people would actually want to read such a thing. If so, let me know, and I'll get working on such a post.
 
Old 02-09-2018, 03:34 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Walrus View Post
Hmmm. I started thinking up a response but then soon realized that to respond in full it would require me to write up a long post on the problem of suffering in general, breaking down that problem, explaining Taoist and Buddhist philosophy around suffering and escape from suffering, and how those answers relate to the Baha'i theology...

So before I do such a thing, would anyone actually find value in such a post?? I figure that might be an over-complicated response and so I probably shouldn't clog up the thread with such a thing unless people would actually want to read such a thing. If so, let me know, and I'll get working on such a post.
Walrus your posts are very helpful and respected by me. Would your post be focused on your view of animals ?
 
Old 02-10-2018, 12:01 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walrus View Post
Hmmm. I started thinking up a response but then soon realized that to respond in full it would require me to write up a long post on the problem of suffering in general, breaking down that problem, explaining Taoist and Buddhist philosophy around suffering and escape from suffering, and how those answers relate to the Baha'i theology...

So before I do such a thing, would anyone actually find value in such a post?? I figure that might be an over-complicated response and so I probably shouldn't clog up the thread with such a thing unless people would actually want to read such a thing. If so, let me know, and I'll get working on such a post.
I for one would like to see such a post, because human suffering has always been a problem for me, not just because of my own suffering either.

However, I do not think that any philosophies or religions address the suffering of animals, do they?
 
Old 02-10-2018, 01:46 AM   #11
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Humans are often only treated well by other humans because it can voice complaint. Animals should be treated well precisely because they can't...

Baha'is are encouraged to teach all their children to nurse sick and injured animals back to health, especially if it can be done under the supervision of experts imo, and care for the environment which is home to animals and humans alike.

As to animals and their souls, Abdul Baha has said something like: We do not complain about this beautiful tree because it cannot sing!
 
Old 02-10-2018, 01:19 PM   #12
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As to animals and their souls, Abdul Baha has said something like: We do not complain about this beautiful tree because it cannot sing!
When asked about the individual persistence of the animal’s personality after death, ‘Abdu’l-Bahá said: “Even the most developed dog has not the immortal soul of the man; yet the dog is perfect in its own place. You do not quarrel with a rose-tree because it cannot sing!” ‘Abdu’l-Bahá in London

We know that animals do not have souls like humans but that does not mean that animals do not have an animal spirit that persists after they die and goes somewhere... I have a friend whose animals have appeared to him after they dies. He is not a delusional person; he is a wildlife biologist who worked for the federal government for over 30 years, very intelligent man. Also, in NDEs people have seen their pets and in the book Private Dowding, the man’s dog came and lived with him.

To be clear, I do not care that animals persist death for my sake but for their sake.... Why do people assume that animals do not care if they die? How do they know that? Sure, animals do not worry about death or think in the abstract the way we do but science really has not determined how they think or what they think about... Humans can just be so arrogant to think that they know everything.

Who knows what I will want to do in the spiritual world or whether I will want to see my animals? I only know that in this world they are my solace and what I care about most, aside from bringing people to the Faith and/or God. I hope I will be able to continue this work in the afterlife, as otherwise I would be terribly bored.... At least that is how I think now, but that could easily change, since nobody knows what the spiritual world will be like...

BTW, welcome aboard the forum... I used to be a resident of Arizona many moons ago, now I am a resident of the world!
 
Old 02-11-2018, 09:23 AM   #13
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Here is a non-Baha'i resource below:

Did God make animals suffer in evolution?
 
Old 02-11-2018, 10:03 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Jcc View Post
One thing to consider is that while there is suffering in the world it gives humans the opportunity to show compassion. We have the ability to reduce the suffering of other humans, and even animals, and that is a way we can grow spiritually.
"Train your children from their earliest days to be infinitely tender and loving to animals."
-Abdu'l-Baha

 
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