Bahai Forums

Go Back   Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Forums > General Discussion

General Discussion Open Baha'i Discussion


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-21-2018, 12:42 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Olympia, WA, USA
Posts: 210
How does the Holy Spirit come to man?

The hundred-dollar question is HOW the bounty of the Holy Spirit comes to man. Does it only come through Manifestations of God or can people get it directly from God, as Christians claim to? I am tired of having this conversation with Christians. Abdu'l-Baha said that there is no such thing as an indwelling Holy Spirit, so how does the help of the Holy Spirit come to man? Isn't there something in the Writings that makes this clear?

“Know then: that which is in the hands of people, that which they believe, is liable to error. For, in proving or disproving a thing, if a proof is brought forward which is taken from the evidence of our senses, this method, as has become evident, is not perfect; if the proofs are intellectual, the same is true; or if they are traditional, such proofs also are not perfect. Therefore, there is no standard in the hands of people upon which we can rely.

But the bounty of the Holy Spirit gives the true method of comprehension which is infallible and indubitable. This is through the help of the Holy Spirit which comes to man, and this is the condition in which certainty can alone be attained.”
Some Answered Questions, pp. 298-299
 
Join Baha'i Forums


Welcome to Baha'i Forums, an open Baha'i Faith community! We welcome everyone and the community is free to join so register today and become part of the Baha'i Forums family!


Old 02-21-2018, 02:46 PM   #2
Member
 
Joined: Feb 2018
From: Arizona-but earth is one homeland ;)
Posts: 37
Your attention must be toward God and you must hold nothing against anything, or anyone, otherwise to see or hear or speak of evil your spiritual senses will be impaired by those judgements.

Have meta cognitive meditation with prayer, supplication, and fasting if necessary, until you root out with God's aid every ill thought and bodily distraction and see only wonder and beauty of God...

O SON OF DUST!
Blind thine eyes, that thou mayest behold My beauty; stop thine ears, that thou mayest hearken unto the sweet melody of My voice; empty thyself of all learning, that thou mayest partake of My knowledge; and sanctify thyself from riches, that thou mayest obtain a lasting share from the ocean of My eternal wealth. Blind thine eyes, that is, to all save My beauty; stop thine ears to all save My word; empty thyself of all learning save the knowledge of Me; that with a clear vision, a pure heart and an attentive ear thou mayest enter the court of My holiness.
 
Old 02-21-2018, 05:30 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2015
From: Bend area, Oregon
Posts: 179
I will offer the following words of ‘Abdu'l-Bahá on the topic which I have found very inspiring over the years. On the other hand, I certainly have not personally experienced what He has described, no doubt due to my own short comings. -LR

TURN TO THE HOLY SPIRIT
Know thou, that letter sent to thee by me, was only because of my perfect love for thee and my pity upon thee, for I had the desire that the fragrance of the Holy Spirit, which hath perfumed all regions and imbued the entire body of the world with the Spirit of Life, should pass over thee and abide with thee. Notwithstanding the high position it occupieth, still, with an eloquent tongue, through which the Spirit moveth, hearts are attracted and bosoms burn, it speaketh to the pure hearts and to the good and righteous souls in every spot of the earth. This is the powerful Spirit, the dazzling light, the brilliant star and the overwhelming and universal abundance. And, from its traces, spread and divulged everywhere, thou wilt know and realize its influence and comprehend its radiance. I ask God to expose thee to its fragrance, move thee by its breeze, enkindle thee by its coals of fire and illuminate thee by its brightness. Turn thyself wholly to it--thus thou shalt be enabled to ascertain its influence and power, the strength of its life and the greatness of its confirmation. Verily, I say unto thee, that if for the appearance of that Divine Essence thou desirest to have a definite proof, an indisputable testimony and a strong, convincing evidence, thou must prepare thyself to make thy heart empty and thine eye ready to look only toward the Kingdom of God. Then, at that time, the radiance of that widespread effulgence will descend upon thee successively, and that motion rendered thee by the Holy Spirit will make thee dispense with any other strong evidence that leadeth to the appearance of this Light, because the greatest and strongest proof for showing the abundance of the Spirit to the bodies is the very appearance of its power and influence in those bodies.
(Bahá'í World Faith, pp. 368-369)

INSPIRATION OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
I now assure thee, O servant of God, that, if thy mind become empty and pure from every mention and thought and thy heart attracted wholly to the Kingdom of God, forget all else besides God and come in communion with the Spirit of God, then the Holy Spirit will assist thee with a power which will enable thee to penetrate all things, and a Dazzling Spark which enlightens all sides, a Brilliant Flame in the zenith of the heavens, will teach thee that which thou dost not know of the facts of the universe and of the divine doctrine. Verily, I say unto thee, every soul which ariseth today to guide others to the path of safety and infuse in them the Spirit of Life, the Holy Spirit will inspire that soul with evidences, proofs and facts and the lights will shine upon it from the Kingdom of God. Do not forget what I have conveyed unto thee from the breath of the Spirit. Verily, it is the shining morning and the rosy dawn which will impart unto thee the lights, reveal the mysteries and make thee competent in science, and through it the pictures of the Supreme World will be printed in thy heart and the facts of the secrets of the Kingdom of God will shine before thee.
(Bahá'í World Faith, p. 369)
 
Old 02-21-2018, 06:47 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Olympia, WA, USA
Posts: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Roofener View Post
I will offer the following words of ‘Abdu'l-Bahá on the topic which I have found very inspiring over the years. On the other hand, I certainly have not personally experienced what He has described, no doubt due to my own short comings. -LR
Thanks so much for those quotes. I hardly ever refer to Baha’i World Faith anymore but as I recall it was one of the first books I read back when I became a Baha’i in 1970. That kind of answers my question about the Holy Spirit.

I feel exactly as you said, I certainly have not personally experienced what He has described, no doubt due to my own short comings. However, I do not think it is all attributable to my shortcomings. I think that we are all just different in the ways we relate to God, but that does not make us deficient. I am much more logical and intellectual and I spend all my free time on forums posting to nonbelievers and Christians and Jews imparting information and trying to understand where they are coming from... Psychology is my other hat and one I wore a lot longer than I have worn my religion hat, since I had all but dropped out of the Faith until the last five years and I am still inactive in the Baha’i community...

Anyhow this thing about the Holy Spirit communicating with people on a personal level is very perplexing to me, downright troublesome. The reason is because so many Christians say it is indwelling and it speaks to them and Abdu’l-Baha said it is not indwelling. But in those passages you quoted indicated that it can speak to individuals....

I am very analytical so here is my problem... How can anyone know that what they are hearing is indeed coming from God through the Holy Spirit? I will give you an example. I converse daily with a very sincere Christian on a forum. He told me the Holy Spirit spoke to him and told Him that Baha’u’llah was a fraud. We know that is not true so that is an indication whatever heard was not from the Holy Spirit.... But he is so sincere.... Do you see my problem?

Logically speaking, if it can happen to one Christian there is no reason it cannot happen to other Christians or to anyone else, even Baha’is. They might believe God or the Holy Spirit is speaking to them when it is really only a product of their imagination or their ego. There is another man I converse with a lot who believes we do not need Prophets at all and that they are a hindrance to our being close to God. He thinks that God communicates to him somehow and says he is so close to God, but how can anyone know that? How can he know that what he feels as God is really God?

Sometimes I think that God that God has assisted me in some way, but how can I possibly know that? How could I ever know what God is doing? Or is it God speaking to me in some way? I often wonder about my motives on forums, how pure they are. I think that what I do I do for God and Baha’u’llah but how can I know there is not also a selfish reason? I really cannot know for sure, so I just try to do what Baha’u’llah enjoined me to do and not worry about the motive.

It is maybe a bias but I do not believe that any human can be a pure channel for the Holy spirit except a Manifestation of God and I think that is one thing Baha’u’llah meant by the following:

“And since there can be no tie of direct intercourse to bind the one true God with His creation, and no resemblance whatever can exist between the transient and the Eternal, the contingent and the Absolute, He hath ordained that in every age and dispensation a pure and stainless Soul be made manifest in the kingdoms of earth and heaven. Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself.....The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.”” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 66

“To every discerning and illumined heart it is evident that God, the unknowable Essence, the divine Being, is immensely exalted beyond every human attribute, such as corporeal existence, ascent and descent, egress and regress. Far be it from His glory that human tongue should adequately recount His praise, or that human heart comprehend His fathomless mystery. He is and hath ever been veiled in the ancient eternity of His Essence, and will remain in His Reality everlastingly hidden from the sight of men. “No vision taketh in Him, but He taketh in all vision; He is the Subtile, the All-Perceiving.” 1No tie of direct intercourse can possibly bind Him to His creatures.He standeth exalted beyond and above all separation and union, all proximity and remoteness. No sign can indicate His presence or His absence; inasmuch as by a word of His command all that are in heaven and on earth have come to exist, and by His wish, which is the Primal Will itself, all have stepped out of utter nothingness into the realm of being, the world of the visible.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 98

If there can be no direct intercourse between God and anyone else besides a Manifestation of God, how then can the Holy spirit communicate to anyone else but them? Is inspiration different from direct communication?
 
Old 02-21-2018, 11:20 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Joined: Sep 2017
From: Birmingham
Posts: 247
Yes an good question, especially when talking about comprehension and the 4 levels of comprehension Abdul Baha says the influx of the human heart cannot be trusted, but only the breath of the holy spirit and the question is how can one distinguish between them? My personal opinion is that anybody who strives for God sincerely and justly will be inspired correctly with the holy spirit 'And those who strive for Us - We will surely guide them to Our ways'. I also believe as a bahai you are more assuredly to be led by the Holy spirit when fulfilling the obligations of bahaullah, as these are our channels to connect with God. Someone also once said to me, 'you can only ever know you are being led by the Holy spirit when you are being led by the Holy spirit'.
 
Old 02-22-2018, 06:42 AM   #6
Member
 
Joined: Feb 2018
From: Arizona-but earth is one homeland ;)
Posts: 37
It's not indwelling because it comes from God via His Manifestation and not our own creature selves or even our own souls in our limited stations. Any attempt to hold it by your own will or mind halts its powerful waves.

You will not find it by the power of the intellect or imagination, rather only by observing God in complete humility. Seek therefore God without distraction, knowing that the potent waves of the spirit may wash over you and if you feel the beginning of its Glory and you wish to hold onto that feeling, rid yourself of that thought and observe only the potent might of God's waves flow through you, do not hinder them with your own desires...

Should you be able to do this by God's aid you have attained your goal.

The true bright streams of fellowship that connects all loving souls is intensifying in these days by the power of those waves of the Spirit. Regard no one with any ill thought or you are cut off that very moment.

O Emigrants! The tongue I have designed for the mention of Me, defile it not with detraction. If the fire of self overcome you, remember your own faults and not the faults of My creatures, inasmuch as every one of you knoweth his own self better than he knoweth others.
 
Old 02-22-2018, 09:56 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Kettering, Ohio USA
Posts: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailblazer View Post
Thanks so much for those quotes. I hardly ever refer to Baha’i World Faith anymore but as I recall it was one of the first books I read back when I became a Baha’i in 1970. That kind of answers my question about the Holy Spirit.

I feel exactly as you said, I certainly have not personally experienced what He has described, no doubt due to my own short comings. However, I do not think it is all attributable to my shortcomings. I think that we are all just different in the ways we relate to God, but that does not make us deficient. I am much more logical and intellectual and I spend all my free time on forums posting to nonbelievers and Christians and Jews imparting information and trying to understand where they are coming from... Psychology is my other hat and one I wore a lot longer than I have worn my religion hat, since I had all but dropped out of the Faith until the last five years and I am still inactive in the Baha’i community...

Anyhow this thing about the Holy Spirit communicating with people on a personal level is very perplexing to me, downright troublesome. The reason is because so many Christians say it is indwelling and it speaks to them and Abdu’l-Baha said it is not indwelling. But in those passages you quoted indicated that it can speak to individuals....

I am very analytical so here is my problem... How can anyone know that what they are hearing is indeed coming from God through the Holy Spirit? I will give you an example. I converse daily with a very sincere Christian on a forum. He told me the Holy Spirit spoke to him and told Him that Baha’u’llah was a fraud. We know that is not true so that is an indication whatever heard was not from the Holy Spirit.... But he is so sincere.... Do you see my problem?

Logically speaking, if it can happen to one Christian there is no reason it cannot happen to other Christians or to anyone else, even Baha’is. They might believe God or the Holy Spirit is speaking to them when it is really only a product of their imagination or their ego. There is another man I converse with a lot who believes we do not need Prophets at all and that they are a hindrance to our being close to God. He thinks that God communicates to him somehow and says he is so close to God, but how can anyone know that? How can he know that what he feels as God is really God?

Sometimes I think that God that God has assisted me in some way, but how can I possibly know that? How could I ever know what God is doing? Or is it God speaking to me in some way? I often wonder about my motives on forums, how pure they are. I think that what I do I do for God and Baha’u’llah but how can I know there is not also a selfish reason? I really cannot know for sure, so I just try to do what Baha’u’llah enjoined me to do and not worry about the motive.

It is maybe a bias but I do not believe that any human can be a pure channel for the Holy spirit except a Manifestation of God and I think that is one thing Baha’u’llah meant by the following:

“And since there can be no tie of direct intercourse to bind the one true God with His creation, and no resemblance whatever can exist between the transient and the Eternal, the contingent and the Absolute, He hath ordained that in every age and dispensation a pure and stainless Soul be made manifest in the kingdoms of earth and heaven. Unto this subtle, this mysterious and ethereal Being He hath assigned a twofold nature; the physical, pertaining to the world of matter, and the spiritual, which is born of the substance of God Himself. He hath, moreover, conferred upon Him a double station. The first station, which is related to His innermost reality, representeth Him as One Whose voice is the voice of God Himself.....The second station is the human station, exemplified by the following verses: “I am but a man like you.”” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 66

“To every discerning and illumined heart it is evident that God, the unknowable Essence, the divine Being, is immensely exalted beyond every human attribute, such as corporeal existence, ascent and descent, egress and regress. Far be it from His glory that human tongue should adequately recount His praise, or that human heart comprehend His fathomless mystery. He is and hath ever been veiled in the ancient eternity of His Essence, and will remain in His Reality everlastingly hidden from the sight of men. “No vision taketh in Him, but He taketh in all vision; He is the Subtile, the All-Perceiving.” 1No tie of direct intercourse can possibly bind Him to His creatures.He standeth exalted beyond and above all separation and union, all proximity and remoteness. No sign can indicate His presence or His absence; inasmuch as by a word of His command all that are in heaven and on earth have come to exist, and by His wish, which is the Primal Will itself, all have stepped out of utter nothingness into the realm of being, the world of the visible.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 98

If there can be no direct intercourse between God and anyone else besides a Manifestation of God, how then can the Holy spirit communicate to anyone else but them? Is inspiration different from direct communication?
I would not argue with Christians about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It's true that the Holy Spirit is not inside our bodies, but it feels indwelling. In the Bible it is described as indwelling. If you say it is not indwelling this will just alienate the Christians. I also think our whole approach of arguing doctrine with them is wrong. We should get them to look at the evidence of Baha'u'llah being a Prophet. People have their opinions and you will not change them by arguing. You have to get them to recognize the authority of Baha'u'llah. It is the only way.
 
Old 02-22-2018, 12:14 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Olympia, WA, USA
Posts: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duane View Post
I would not argue with Christians about the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. It's true that the Holy Spirit is not inside our bodies, but it feels indwelling. In the Bible it is described as indwelling. If you say it is not indwelling this will just alienate the Christians. I also think our whole approach of arguing doctrine with them is wrong. We should get them to look at the evidence of Baha'u'llah being a Prophet. People have their opinions and you will not change them by arguing. You have to get them to recognize the authority of Baha'u'llah. It is the only way.
You are right Duane. I have not been arguing with them about that anymore. If they ask or if it comes up in conversation, I explain what Baha'is believe and I quote Abdu'l-Baha, but I try to find common ground. The main reason it comes up is because I am talking about the Comforter being Baha'u'llah and they believe that the Comforter is the indwelling Holy Spirit that was sent to them at Pentecost. These beliefs cannot be reconciled so all I can do is present what we believe.

I agree that we should not argue doctrine, such as about the resurrection, whether it was bodily or spiritual... What's the point? Nobody can prove it happened or didn't happen, so why are we still talking about it 2000 years later?

I try to focus on the evidence that Baha'u'llah was a Prophet but Christians do not want to listen to that. They just want to talk about how Baha'u'llah cannot be the Messiah because of their interpretation of the Bible.

The entire problem between Christians and Baha'is is that they interpret the Bible differently... They say "the Bible says" but I tell them the Bible does not SAY anything, words just sit on the page until they are interpreted by people and we assign meanings. Since all Christians interpret the Bible differently that means that either one is right and all the others are wrong, or they are all wrong, or all of them have it partly right but none of them has it all right. I believe it is the latter because that is the most logical.

But almost all Christians believe only they have interpreted the Bible perfectly and they are so certain, so obviously they think that Baha'is have interpreted it all wrong. They just cannot understand that it is their ego that says that their interpretation is the only correct interpretation... They cannot listen to reason.
 
Old 02-22-2018, 01:42 PM   #9
Member
 
Joined: Feb 2018
From: Arizona-but earth is one homeland ;)
Posts: 37
The holy spirit appearing at Pentecost was indeed an experience of the early church. Jesus released revitalizing waves that the receptive felt. Baha'u'llah has released more of it to build up the former waves of the Manifestations. Wave upon wave the revitalizing forces of Their purpose is released upon the world on each "Day of God", one building upon the prior age.

"I come that you may have life and have it more abundantly." - Jesus

“Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

Prepare the soil of the heart by learning what can teach them new things about their own scriptures ... What is acceptable to them and what is rejected. Offer what is acceptable first that improves their understanding, for it is like mother's milk to the child.

Only a few have well prepared soil from the onset and those will accept quickly and with vigor. The rest needs the thorns and rocks cleared and new mulch layered down before it is ready to accept new seed. When the ground is cleared the seeds covered by new topsoil and watered by the love, charity and mercy of God, new growth will appear in it's own season, the speed depending upon the conditions ... Then the seedlings must be protected from the trampling feet of the careless.

Again, most have not understood how John the Baptist denied being Elijah while Christ himself said he was... This way the Gospels tell of how the same spirit comes in a different person.

Anyone filled to the brim with the spirit can not deny a Manifestation - those that deny and claim the holy spirit has guided them are like young children staring at the words of a book and saying that they are reading, while the book being upside down gives them away to even those who don't know them as their parent...

Last edited by EphemeralVapor; 02-22-2018 at 02:02 PM.
 
Old 02-23-2018, 09:26 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Joined: Jul 2017
From: Olympia, WA, USA
Posts: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by EphemeralVapor View Post
The holy spirit appearing at Pentecost was indeed an experience of the early church. Jesus released revitalizing waves that the receptive felt. Baha'u'llah has released more of it to build up the former waves of the Manifestations. Wave upon wave the revitalizing forces of Their purpose is released upon the world on each "Day of God", one building upon the prior age.

"I come that you may have life and have it more abundantly." - Jesus

“Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”

Prepare the soil of the heart by learning what can teach them new things about their own scriptures ... What is acceptable to them and what is rejected. Offer what is acceptable first that improves their understanding, for it is like mother's milk to the child.

Only a few have well prepared soil from the onset and those will accept quickly and with vigor. The rest needs the thorns and rocks cleared and new mulch layered down before it is ready to accept new seed. When the ground is cleared the seeds covered by new topsoil and watered by the love, charity and mercy of God, new growth will appear in it's own season, the speed depending upon the conditions ... Then the seedlings must be protected from the trampling feet of the careless.

Again, most have not understood how John the Baptist denied being Elijah while Christ himself said he was... This way the Gospels tell of how the same spirit comes in a different person.

Anyone filled to the brim with the spirit can not deny a Manifestation - those that deny and claim the holy spirit has guided them are like young children staring at the words of a book and saying that they are reading, while the book being upside down gives them away to even those who don't know them as their parent...
Thanks... I guess you must have been a Christian before becoming a Baha'i... I was never a Christian and I do not know the Bible very well. I thus stumble around in the dark, learning as I go.

I run into lots of Christians and that is how I have learned most of what I know; that, and looking up verses online.
 
Old 02-28-2018, 02:15 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
camachoe's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2017
From: Mexico
Posts: 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trailblazer View Post
The hundred-dollar question is HOW the bounty of the Holy Spirit comes to man. Does it only come through Manifestations of God or can people get it directly from God, as Christians claim to? I am tired of having this conversation with Christians. Abdu'l-Baha said that there is no such thing as an indwelling Holy Spirit, so how does the help of the Holy Spirit come to man? Isn't there something in the Writings that makes this clear?
If I remember correctly, what Abdul Bahá says is that the Holy Spirit does not descend to man (literally) but man rather reflects the rays of light of the Sun (God).

Therefore, inasmuch as we leave our caves of darkness and expose ourselves to the divine sunlight, we get bathed by the Holy Spirit. In other words, there is no particular event or moment in which we "receive" the Holy Spirit, or in which the Holy Spirit "descends" to dwell with us, as many Christians seem to believe.

Now, regarding your question on whether we get the influence of the Holy Spirit through the Manifestations of God or from God directly, we can say with confidence that ALL our contact with God is ultimately made through the Eternal Logos, the Manifestation (in this dispensation, through Bahá'u'lláh).

Abdul Bahá compares the Sun with God, the rays with the Messenger (Manifestation) and the heat and light we perceive as the Holy Spirit.

This is a beautiful metaphor: we could not benefit from the heat and light of the Sun were it not for the rays of photons coming from the Sun.
We could not experience God without Bahá'u'lláh.

By the way, the Writings are not the only way we get the light rays of Bahá'u'lláh.
Every leave of a tree, every delightful music played by an orchestra, every smiling child, every scientific discovery, every tender kiss, every refreshing raindrop on our face, are all made possible by God through the Manifestation.

It is not that Mizrá Hussein Ali, the man born in Teheran who liked to ride horses, is causing the universe to exist. It is Bahá'u'lláh, as eternal Logos, eternal Christ, eternal Buddha, as the Verb or Word co-eternal with God through which everything is being created and maintained.

Last edited by camachoe; 02-28-2018 at 02:17 PM.
 
Reply

  Baha'i Forums > Baha'i Forums > General Discussion

Tags
holy, man, spirit



Thread Tools
Display Modes



Facebook @bahaiforums RSS


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright © 2006 - 2018 Bahai Forums. All rights reserved.