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Old 06-16-2018, 12:16 AM   #1
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Bahá'í view on black magic? Excorcisms?

Is it true the Bahá'í faith does not view black magic as a reality.. What should one think of excorcism videos? Is it just the power of the subconscious mind?

Last edited by Yousefy2; 06-16-2018 at 01:56 PM.
 
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Old 06-16-2018, 03:04 AM   #2
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
Is it true the Bahá'í faith does not view black magic as a reality, so what do I make of excorism videos ?
IMHO Inappropriate entertainment.

To me the Mind unregulated, is capable of many worldly things.

Regards Tony
 
Old 06-16-2018, 08:02 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
Is it true the Bahá'í faith does not view black magic as a reality, so what do I make of excorism videos ?
So I don't understand the question, lol.

Exorcism would be a white magic, at least if we're using the old archaic classification systems, as it invokes God and is therefore theurgic rather than goetia.
 
Old 06-16-2018, 01:57 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Walrus View Post
So I don't understand the question, lol.

Exorcism would be a white magic, at least if we're using the old archaic classification systems, as it invokes God and is therefore theurgic rather than goetia.
Sorry for being vague, I have improved the language now
 
Old 06-16-2018, 06:51 PM   #5
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I found the answer please read this:

'Abdu'l-Bahá, the son of Prophet/Founder Bahá'u'lláh, explains, "As to the question of evil spirits, demons and monsters, any references made to them in the Holy Books have symbolic meaning. What is currently known among the public is but sheer superstition." - Lights of Guidance, p. 512 But every day some people continue to behave very badly, so evil inspiration must come from somewhere. He explained further, "The reality underlying this question is that the evil spirit, Satan or whatever is interpreted as evil, refers to the lower nature in man. This baser nature is symbolized in various ways. In man there are two expressions, one is the expression of nature, the other the expression of the spiritual realm....If you should leave a man uneducated and barbarous in the wilds...would there be any doubt about his remaining ignorant? God has never created an evil spirit; all such ideas and nomenclature are symbols expressing the mere human or earthly nature of man. It is an essential condition of the soil of earth that thorns, weeds and fruitless trees may grow from it. Relatively speaking, this is evil; it is simply the lower state and baser product of nature." - 'Abdu'l-Bahá, Foundations of World Unity, p. 77
 
Old 06-16-2018, 10:44 PM   #6
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joey473 View Post
I found the answer please read this:

'Abdu'l-Bahá, the son of Prophet/Founder Bahá'u'lláh, explains, "As to the question of evil spirits, demons and monsters, any references made to them in the Holy Books have symbolic meaning. What is currently known among the public is but sheer superstition." - Lights of Guidance, p. 512 But every day some people continue to behave very badly, so evil inspiration must come from somewhere. He explained further, "The reality underlying this question is that the evil spirit, Satan or whatever is interpreted as evil, refers to the lower nature in man. This baser nature is symbolized in various ways. In man there are two expressions, one is the expression of nature, the other the expression of the spiritual realm....If you should leave a man uneducated and barbarous in the wilds...would there be any doubt about his remaining ignorant? God has never created an evil spirit; all such ideas and nomenclature are symbols expressing the mere human or earthly nature of man. It is an essential condition of the soil of earth that thorns, weeds and fruitless trees may grow from it. Relatively speaking, this is evil; it is simply the lower state and baser product of nature." - 'Abdu'l-Bahá, Foundations of World Unity, p. 77
Well done Joey473, that is the required details.

Regards Tony
 
Old 06-17-2018, 05:57 PM   #7
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Videos like this?

What do you make of videos like this. There are lots of them and all have similiarities .. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B90CauxfDDc&t=328s

Last edited by Yousefy2; 06-17-2018 at 07:42 PM.
 
Old 06-18-2018, 05:37 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
What do you make of videos like this. There are lots of them and all have similiarities .. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B90CauxfDDc&t=328s
So first, this really has nothing at all to do with the topic of "black magic", the term is misused in the OP.

This would be a topic of demonic possession and exorcism. While it might be correct to classify exorcism as "magic", the term "black magic" would not apply to it. (In technical terms, "black magic" refers to magic whose source is the demonic, whereas "white magic" would refer to magic whose source is the divine. Therefore, invoking God to cast out a demon would be "white magic", not "black magic")

As for the topic of demonic possession...

I think that the topic tends to be too polarized. It seems like either a person believes evil spirits are an existing thing that manipulate humans, or they believe these things don't exist at all and have no reality.

We are told these things are symbolic. From that, I see many people conclude that because these things are symbolic, that they aren't real.

I think that's not the right way to look at it.

If demons are symbolic, then what they symbolize does in fact exist. So one could say that demons are real, they're just different from the common image of them.

Demons, we are told, are symbolic of our darker natures. Our desires and attachments. So rather than the devil being an external force trying to tempt us into sin, instead the devil is a part of us, trying to tempt us from within. The scenario where devils are a part of us is probably more horrific than if a reality existed in which devils existed as some external force, if we really think about it.

Demonic possession is then the same malady of addiction. If a demon is, as we are told, symbolic of a base desire tempting us towards attachment, then a demon taking full control of a person is similar to that of addiction, when a physical desire can take control of the body, in a fashion.

On the topic of the ritual of exorcism, I think it has value, which may be them minority view here . Just psychologically speaking, if an attachment has afflicted us to an extreme degree, projecting that addiction onto a mental concept of a "demon" and then banishing it from your mind could be an effective remedy. By giving it the attachment a persona of its own, by viewing that aspect of yourself as outside of yourself, you can more easily detach yourself from the attachment.

It's basically like a highly symbolic method of identifying a part of yourself you want to change, outlining it and separating it from the rest of your mind, and discarding it from your self. Highly symbolic, memetic self-improvement.

Therefore I think demonic possession is real, but not real in the sense that most people think it is, and I think exorcisms do work, but not for the reasons people think they do.
 
Old 06-18-2018, 11:57 AM   #9
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walrus View Post
Therefore I think demonic possession is real, but not real in the sense that most people think it is, and I think exorcisms do work, but not for the reasons people think they do.
You are not alone., I think I said this in my quote above "To me the Mind unregulated, is capable of many worldly things"

We are to unite to become one in Mind and Soul in the Love of God, this is the aim of Humanity as a whole. At this time the mind of many is focused on this world and many ungodly pursuits, that collective mind has powerful of influence in the negative.

This is why the Baha'i Writings contain many passages telling us to replace evil thoughts immediatly with pure thoughts. Evil thoughts being a projection from other minds.

It is a worthy topic to disuss.

Regards Tony.
 
Old 06-30-2018, 02:40 PM   #10
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I had a friend that came out "Voodoo". He became a Christian. He reported that he saw people possessed with what he calls demons. He reported that he was possessed with demons until he was delivered by them, after becoming a Christian. He believes in evil spirits. I believe he experienced something, but I don't prefer to call it demonic. Ones beliefs can have powerful affects on people. I think what my friend experienced may have been psychological but it may have been out of this world. I am not sure. Are these faiths, like Voodoo or Santeria included in the belief by all Baha'is that all religion's are in essence one? What do you all think my friend may have experienced, from a Baha'i perspective?

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Old 07-01-2018, 06:49 AM   #11
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No, I don't think that voodoo is a valid religion.
 
Old 07-01-2018, 11:42 AM   #12
Tony Bristow-Stagg
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raf1467rh View Post
I had a friend that came out "Voodoo". He became a Christian. He reported that he saw people possessed with what he calls demons. He reported that he was possessed with demons until he was delivered by them, after becoming a Christian. He believes in evil spirits. I believe he experienced something, but I don't prefer to call it demonic. Ones beliefs can have powerful affects on people. I think what my friend experienced may have been psychological but it may have been out of this world. I am not sure. Are these faiths, like Voodoo or Santeria included in the belief by all Baha'is that all religion's are in essence one? What do you all think my friend may have experienced, from a Baha'i perspective?

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Abdul' baha has explained this question;


Alas! that humanity is completely submerged in imitations and unrealities notwithstanding the truth of divine religion has ever remained the same. Superstitions have obscured the fundamental reality, the world is darkened and the light of religion is not apparent. This darkness is conducive to differences and dissensions; rites and dogmas are many and various; therefore discord has arisen among the religious systems whereas religion is for the unification of mankind. True religion is the source of love and agreement amongst men, the cause of the development of praiseworthy qualities; but the people are holding to the counterfeit and imitation, negligent of the reality which unifies; so they are bereft and deprived of the radiance of religion. They follow superstitions inherited from their fathers and ancestors. To such an extent has this prevailed that they have taken away the heavenly light of divine truth and sit in the darkness of imitations and imaginations. That which was meant to be conducive to life has become the cause of death; that which should have been an evidence of knowledge is now a proof of ignorance; that which was a factor in the sublimity of human nature has proved to be its degradation. Therefore the realm of the religionist has gradually narrowed and darkened and the sphere of the materialist has widened and advanced; for the religionist has held to imitation and counterfeit, neglecting and discarding holiness and the sacred reality of religion. When the sun sets it is the time for bats to fly. They come forth because they are creatures of the night. When the lights of religion become darkened the materialists appear. They are the bats of night. The decline of religion is their time of activity; they seek the shadows when the world is darkened and clouds have spread over it.
(‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Foundations of World Unity, p. 71)

Here are more;

Religion

Regards Tony
 
Old 07-02-2018, 05:36 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Duane View Post
No, I don't think that voodoo is a valid religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raf1467rh View Post
Are these faiths, like Voodoo or Santeria included in the belief by all Baha'is that all religion's are in essence one?
These religions are syncretic religions combining elements of Catholicism and West African religion.

Therefore they must have truth within them, even if one assumes that West African religion has no divine source (which I don't think it is safe to assume), since it at least has truth in it from it's Christian side.
 
Old 07-07-2018, 08:40 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Yousefy2 View Post
Is it true the Bahá'í faith does not view black magic as a reality.. What should one think of excorcism videos? Is it just the power of the subconscious mind?
None of it is valid.
 
Old 07-12-2018, 02:36 PM   #15
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"Demonic Possession"? Does not necessarily refer to REAL demons! Its trauma induced Brainwashing or propaganda and subtle and subliminal methods of manipulation of PEOPLES MINDS? Why is it so difficult to get that through SOME peoples HEADS?

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...athy+o%27brien

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...rol+Jay+Parker

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...+ritual+abuse+
 
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