bsbowman

Hi all, I'm a newbie here. I posted in the introductions forum but wanted to get started on some of my questions right away.

At the outset I want to stress that I'm not here to discredit anyone or to argue. I just want to hear some Baha'i perspectives on questions that I have about the faith, a faith of which I am not, at present, a member. Consider it, perhaps, your chance to explain the subtleties of your faith to an interested outsider.

My first question concerns the Baha'i position on homosexuality. It's a complicated one.

First some background on my understanding of the issue: As a radical Catholic (Yes! We exist!) it is my contention that the Bible, at its MOST damning, is mute on the subject of homosexuals in a committed relationship. For a certainty we all must know that Jesus mentions homosexuality exactly zero times in the four accepted gospels. It is thought that passages in the Old Testament which appear to be condemning of homosexuality are referring to the Babylonian practice of temple prostitution or pederasty. I personally am a supporter of gay rights. (I am not asserting that Baha'i do not support gay rights in many ways.)

From what I understand, Baha'u'llah's teaching on homosexuality in the original language carries the implication of pederasty, but Shoghi Effendi's translation and interpretation extended the prohibition to all forms of homosexuality. I can't help but think that I've heard this story before, inasmuch as Jesus is completely silent on these matters and that homosexuality was later declared immoral and demonized by subsequent interpreters and theologians.

What I'd like to know firstly is if some of the kind people here could help clarify the Baha'i position for me. Secondly, in regard to Shoghi Effendi's clarification of Baha'u'llah's teaching, to what extent and what specific authority was relegated to Effendi to do so?

Thanks in advance for all your help. I look forward to getting to know more about this fascinating religion.

arthra

Welcome to the Forum bsbowman!

It sounds like maybe you come here with your conclusions:

From what I understand, Baha'u'llah's teaching on homosexuality in the original language carries the implication of pederasty, but Shoghi Effendi's translation and interpretation extended the prohibition to all forms of homosexuality. I can't help but think that I've heard this story before, inasmuch as Jesus is completely silent on these matters and that homosexuality was later declared immoral and demonized by subsequent interpreters and theologians.

I appreciate your view but would as a Baha'i differ with that perspective..

Shoghi Effendi as Guardian of the Faith appointed by Abdul-Baha the eldest son of Baha'u'llah has the authority for Baha'is to interpret the Writings.

Actually the word in Arabic doesn't refer to boys alone or pederasty but to youths as well ..

But for your information there have been some statements clarifying these points and related issues made by the Research Dept. for the Universal House of Justice:

UHJ letter: homosexuality.discussion.html

There's also a very fine article on the term used in the Kitab-i-Aqdas by Kamran Hakim that you might find of interest:

Homosexuality in the Kitab-i-Aqdas

Again,

Welcome to the Forum!

- Art

bsbowman

Thank you for your clarification, Arthra.

Of course I do have my own opinions, in many cases strong ones, but I wouldn't be here if I didn't want to hear other perspectives.

Here's a thought. I've heard it said that the world didn't have the concept of homosexuality until the nineteenth century. Might it be possible that the language of Baha'u'llah's time did not allow him to write explicitly about what would be our modern concept of homosexuality, and that in the relatively brief period between Baha'u'llah and Shoghi Effendi, world thinking on the subject changed to the extent that Effendi's writings could more directly address the matter to a more modern audience?

arthra

Thanks for your post..

World thinking is changing I think and more so in the direction I believe of the revealed principles of Baha'u'llah.. examples would be the need for

a representative world parliament

and an international court of arbitration,

a world economy and currency

and the elimination of racism ... there's much more of course.

In terms of sexuality I think most Baha'is would agree that the emphasis of the Faith is channeling sexuality properly.. Now this is something that has more to do I think with our views of the family and raising children.

We believe that the purpose of this existence is to reflect the Attributes of God in our lives and to strive to express spiritual virtues to prepare us for the next world.


- Art

Pollwr

Hello, Bsbowman.

Having discussed this issue with friends in the past, as far as I can tell, it is not really the Bahá'í writings on homosexuality that offer the key to interpreting the answer, but those on marriage. It is stated that marriage is encouraged but not obligitory and that it is between husband and wife. It is also stated that sexual intercourse should be between husand and wife only.

As far as I can tell, this is a different perspective than some religions which demonize homosexuals. It seems to me that all humans are seen as having a light of God within them. As with all religions, there is a moral code within the Bahá'í Faith. As Bahá'ís we all strive towards living as we should. As human beings there are inevitably some things that we will struggle with putting into practise. For example, in a small gossipy community, not backbiting may be a real challenge (and you should see what is written about backbiting - it is a real no-no).

I think as Bahá'ís sometimes just the love of Bahá'u'lláh is enough to make us stive to follow His laws even though we may not understand all of them and the knowledge of how we fall short of that may be enough reminder not to judge others, let alone try to push these laws on people who are not members of our Faith.

Pollwr

I would just like to add

"Every human creature is the servant of God. All have been created and reared by the power and favour of God and all in His estimation and love are equal as servants. He is beneficent and kind to all. Therefore, no one should glorify himself over another; no one should look upon another with scorn and contempt; and no one should deprive or oppress a fellow creature."

which I feel is relevant to this discussion

bsbowman

What a great reference. Thanks, Pollwr, to adding what I would think of as the practical teaching for heterosexuals on this. I didn't say before (to avoid coloring the discussion), but I am not homosexual myself. In a way I feel that I'm lucky that I don't have to deal with this issue personally, although I have many homosexual friends and even family members. What I read above I would consider consistent with my own feelings on the subject.

Thanks guys! If there's anything else you can add to illuminate my understanding, it would be much appreciated.

cky

I don't have any scripture to add, but the point of view I have taken from Baha'i teachings is that it is between you and God. Every individual has their own relationship with God, and it should not be judged by others if you have come to terms with it in your own relationship with God.

If you listened to everything people told you (Christian views on homosexuality, for example), no new information/ideas would ever be created

lukasali

I know this isn't explicitly about an official Baha'i position on homosexuality, but I do think this quote is possibly more pertinent to the issue in terms of understanding how Baha'is should approach and treat homosexual individuals (and all individuals, actually). Especially in the world today when there is so much animosity towards gay people, these admonitions of Baha'u'llah clearly call us to another level of interaction and a different way of being. At least, for me personally, this is what I feel my role as a Baha'i is in regards to homosexuality.

Be unjust to no man, and show all meekness to all men. Be as a lamp unto them that walk in darkness, a joy to the sorrowful, a sea for the thirsty, a haven for the distressed, an upholder and defender of the victim of oppression... Be a home for the stranger, a balm to the suffering, a tower of strength for the fugitive. - Baha'u'llah