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Old 10-14-2010, 12:56 PM   #1
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Iran's treatment of Baha'i citizens - frightening similarities to Nazis and Jews

The Islamist government in Iran, controlled by a crakpot dwarf called Ahmadinejad and a God-King Ayatollah Khamenei, is always the centre of the world's attention today. As a lover of Persian history, the Persian language, the Shahnameh of Ferdowsi, the Sufi poets Rumi, Hafez and Saadi and the Iranian people, I find the current horrendous regime in Iran very disheartening. The Iranian people are among the most civilised and human people in the world and yet they are ruled by religious meglomaniacs with Nazi-like genocidal ambitions.

To me and many other people in the world the parallels between modern day Iran under the Abadgaran Regime and 1930s Nazi Germany, is alarming. Many people from across the globe have noted the chilling similirities: Europeans, Americans, Israelis, Arabs, Africans.

In the Islamic Republic of Iran, for instance, the government has launched a systematic program of genocide against its largest religious minority—the Baha’is. The government is gathering a comprehensive list of Baha’is, their occupations, locations, properties and the like—action reminiscent of the Nazi treatment of Jews. The government is banning Baha’i students from post high-school education unless they recant their religion, deprives them of engaging in numerous forms of occupations and trades, denies them from holding worship gatherings, and razes their holy places and much more. The Islamic Republic of Iran is not satisfied with its cruel treatment of the living Baha’is and has launched a war on their dead by bulldozing Baha’i cemeteries in several cities. Thus is the rule of fundamental Islamism that is awaiting the complacent and snoozing world.
The Baha'is are only the first to suffer. They will not be the last. Will the world ignore the threat of Iran and continue to appease its radical regime like it did with Hitler's in the 1930s? Will we ignore the plight of Baha'is just as we ignored the plight of Jews? Will the timeless and prophetic words of Dietrich Bonhoeffer be proved true once more:

“First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out. Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out. And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.”

What do you think - is it incorrect to compare modern Iran and its treatment of Baha'is with 1930s Germany and its treatment of Jews?

Yesterday I watched footage of Ahmadinejad's trip to Lebanon. I was vividly reminded of Hitler in his open top mercedes driving about in the Rhineland and Austria. Both lunatics were waved in with flowers and much appraisal. Both where described as being like, 'Landlords walking into their backyards'. The similarities, for me at least, are chilling. Both have paraded themselves in front of the International Community - the League of Nations and the UN - spouting absurdities. Hitler denounced the Jewish world conspiracy. Ahmadinejad denies the Holocaust, says there are no gays in Iran, calls for the destruction of Israel and talks about the return of Imam Mehdi. Both men were deranged. Both men wielded power. Both were dangerous. Both were driven by warped ideologies...will the similarities continue I wonder? Where will it all end?

TBH if there were an evil version of the Baha'i belief in the 'Return' of the Manifestations of God then I would say Ahmadinejad must be the 'return' spiritually of Hitler or Napoleon.

Last edited by Yeshua; 10-14-2010 at 01:06 PM.
 
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Old 10-14-2010, 11:00 PM   #2
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As a Baha'i, and as a strong supporter of human rights for Iranian Baha'is, I feel very grateful and appreciative for your expression of sympathy and support for Iranian Baha'is, Yeshua.
 
Old 10-15-2010, 03:01 AM   #3
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As a Baha'i, and as a strong supporter of human rights for Iranian Baha'is, I feel very grateful and appreciative for your expression of sympathy and support for Iranian Baha'is, Yeshua.
:wub:wub:wub:wub:wub
 
Old 10-15-2010, 03:32 AM   #4
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And you just inspired me to put together the compilation of links in the post below. So thankyou for that also, Yeshua. Hopefully your expression of compassion on Iranian Baha'is will end up helping more victims of oppression than you had anticipated, by helping to publicize and educate people about their situation.

Persecution of Baha'is in Iran - a compilation of links to news sources

Last edited by bwb; 10-15-2010 at 03:35 AM.
 
Old 10-15-2010, 03:45 AM   #5
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And you just inspired me to put together the compilation of links in the post below. So thankyou for that also, Yeshua. Hopefully your expression of compassion on Iranian Baha'is will end up helping more victims of oppression than you had anticipated, by helping to publicize and educate people about their situation.

Persecution of Baha'is in Iran - a compilation of links to news sources
God Bless you BWB :wub Thank you for compiling all of those links. We need to spread as much awareness of the human rights situation in Iran as possible. When people are awakened to the truth, their humanity and compassion will drive them to action. Of that I am convinced. Complacency and inaction is the result of ignorance not cowardice, on the whole.
 
Old 10-18-2010, 01:38 AM   #6
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In the years preceding and following the 1979 Iranian revolution, the Universal House of Justice did advise Iranian Baha'is to leave Iran, and as a result there was a mass exodus of Baha'is from Iran. Baha'i communities all over the world welcomed and helped their fleeing Iranian fellow-Baha'is. But judging by the 2008-2009 Universal House of Justice messages that I've read, the Universal House of Justice is not telling the Iranian Baha'is to cut and run yet. Instead they are being encouraged to continue working to improve Iranian society, and to continue heroically being of service to their fellow countrymen.


7 messages of the Universal House of Justice to Iranian Baha'is from May 19, 2008 to March 05, 2009
Messages of the Universal House of Justice - Iran Press Watch
 
Old 10-18-2010, 04:05 AM   #7
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In the years preceding and following the 1979 Iranian revolution, the Universal House of Justice did advise Iranian Baha'is to leave Iran, and as a result there was a mass exodus of Baha'is from Iran.
I believe Shoghi Effendi first told all the Persian Baha'is to leave Iran and take up pioneering posts during the early 1950s (or late 1940s?). I often wonder how different both the Baha'i and non-Baha'i world might look today if they had all listened.:unsure
 
Old 07-04-2015, 01:10 PM   #8
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What does the Iranian government us to justify the abuse of our brethren? Is it because we are heretics? Is it because we allegedly work for the Israelis? How do they rationalize it?
 
Old 07-04-2015, 01:23 PM   #9
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I believe Shoghi Effendi first told all the Persian Baha'is to leave Iran and take up pioneering posts during the early 1950s (or late 1940s?). I often wonder how different both the Baha'i and non-Baha'i world might look today if they had all listened.:unsure
Oh, and Shoghi Effendi told all American believers to leave the United States as well. :-)

Why do I feel sad?

gnat
 
Old 07-04-2015, 02:55 PM   #10
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Oh, and Shoghi Effendi told all American believers to leave the United States as well. :-)

Why do I feel sad?

gnat
What do you thinks making you sad brother?
 
Old 07-04-2015, 03:12 PM   #11
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What do you thinks making you sad brother?
It's quite obvious. Actually, I read that, in fact, 'Abdu'l-Bahá was quite disappointed by the response of the American believers to the call for pioneers. It's not much talked about, just as little as the choice of most Iranian Bahá'ís to stay in their country is deplored. Instead, Shoghi Effendi chose to praise those who actually heeded the calls for pioneering.

One should always see the positive, but sometimes it's healthier to look at truth straight into the eyes.

gnat
 
Old 07-05-2015, 01:01 AM   #12
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What does the Iranian government us to justify the abuse of our brethren? Is it because we are heretics? Is it because we allegedly work for the Israelis? How do they rationalize it?
all of the above + some more things! when it is time to destroy something by means of lies, then every kind of lie will be made .
 
Old 07-05-2015, 08:37 AM   #13
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What does the Iranian government us to justify the abuse of our brethren? Is it because we are heretics? Is it because we allegedly work for the Israelis? How do they rationalize it?
I discuss much of this in depth in my article here: Accusations Against Baha'is Within the Context of Islamic Heresiography (Maneck)
 
Old 07-05-2015, 08:41 AM   #14
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Oh, and Shoghi Effendi told all American believers to leave the United States as well. :-)

Why do I feel sad?

gnat

Not all American believers. The rule of thumb during the Ten Year Crusade was that Baha'is should leave cities where there were already 15 or more adult Baha'is. That is no longer the case, by the way.

There was a warning given to Iranian Baha'is by the House of Justice back in the mid-seventies urging as many as possible to leave.
 
Old 07-05-2015, 12:27 PM   #15
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Not all American believers. The rule of thumb during the Ten Year Crusade was that Baha'is should leave cities where there were already 15 or more adult Baha'is. That is no longer the case, by the way.

There was a warning given to Iranian Baha'is by the House of Justice back in the mid-seventies urging as many as possible to leave.
Well, we have such a quote as you mention - 15 or more. We have others such as "Everyone who possibly can should disperse to one of the goal cities, either on the home front or in the consolidation areas abroad. If the friends everywhere arise with the same spirit of devotion, sacrifice and dedication as the pioneers in the virgin areas, then victory will surely be achieved in many fields during the coming year." (Messages to Canada)

My point is that we have always done much, much less than those who had the full vision of things were urging us to do.

gnat
 
Old 07-05-2015, 12:53 PM   #16
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My point is that we have always done much, much less than those who had the full vision of things were urging us to do.gnat
Dear Gnat - Yes dear friend this is the Truth, the Truth we do not like to hear.

Had we arisen and if we were still to arise as we are guided to do, then the world would change.

Yes I know why you are sad, but there is good news

Dear Friend, it is not too late, we still breath upon this planet, there is still time to do as we must.

Dear friends of the Forum, we are called to sacrifice much, each must dig deep and find what each can produce in this quest.

Yes the riches of the world can not harm us if we are not attached to them, but who here can safely say what those riches consist of? IMHO they are not necessarily Money and Possessions, they also consist of material and many other distractions.

A lot of us are born into what can be seen as great wealth by others, but we see it as not! As we struggle in the lower or middle pay levels with everyday life in the Industrial World, in our reality we see that we are doing it not so good and this becomes an attachment in itself.

What do we really need from this life in Material Possessions, a few early Hands of the Cause and Knights of Baha'u'llah lived out of suitcases for a while. In reality we need little but usually gather a lot

If one has a longing to Serve then act on the longing and come to terms of how each will undertake this service. Not all will leave, not all will travel, but no matter what the choice we have to give back to the cause for so great a gift given.

A couple of friends and I like to play a game of lets see where we are and what we are doing in a Years Time, it is a good laugh to see where and what has happened over the year. Occasionally we have the chat and within a short period of time, one, or all of us, has had a mighty change of direction in our life.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 07-05-2015, 01:02 PM   #17
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On this Topic of Iran's Treatment of Baha'is

This is an older thread, but the incidences of persecution against the Baha'i's in Iran has been steadily gaining momentum.

There is much now recorded of Unjust treatment handed out against Baha'i's in Iran, but still the World leaves Injustice unpunished, still allows tyrants to rule as they please.

We that do not face these persecutions have the chance to arise and Serve for these people, we have the chance to show if you persecute and try to silence our friends the hand of God will be Raised in other parts 10 fold to your efforts.

Our protest should be Action.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 07-05-2015, 01:04 PM   #18
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Yes the riches of the world can not harm us if we are not attached to them, but who here can safely say what those riches consist of? IMHO they are not necessarily Money and Possessions, they also consist of material and many other distractions.
Yes, I believe that the greatest danger does not consist in things - that is, stuff, gadgets, materials, monetary means, etc. And the poor can be just as obsessed with the material as the rich. No, my belief is that the most dangerous materialism is another.

My personal insight - an insight almost too terrible for words - is that most of that which we call friendship and love - is material, that so much of that is based on common approaches to the material side of things, on a fundamentally self-interested approach to others, where each and every person becomes a means to achieving something material. Not a happy insight, and I sincerely hope that it is my personal insight, which belongs to the geographical place where I was born and to the social group into which I was born.

Judging from my reading of world literature from different periods, I'm also under the impression that people previously had a capacity, a readiness to sometimes allow themselves to exit from that material approach to others and fully enjoy the adventure of getting acquainted with a particularly fascinating personality or approach to life - a capacity that - also according to my own interpretation - we seem to have lost. Most of what today is called modern subcultures is merely the construction of communities based on what one consumes, like what clothes one buys, what food one buys, etc, whereas in my opinion real culture is based on what one produces - only marginally in the material sense, but, much more importantly, in the spiritual sense.

gnat

Last edited by gnat; 07-05-2015 at 01:13 PM.
 
Old 07-05-2015, 01:11 PM   #19
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Yes, I believe that the greatest danger does not consist in things - that is, stuff, gadgets, materials, monetary means, etc. And the poor can be just as obsessed with the material as the rich. No, my belief is that the most dangerous materialism is another.

My personal insight - an insight almost too terrible for words - is that most of that which we call friendship and love - is material, that so much of that is based on common approaches to the material side of things, on a fundamentally self-interested apporach to others, where each and every person becomes a means to achieving something material. Not a happy insight, and I sincerely hope that it is my personal insight, which belongs to the geographical place where I was born and to the social group into which I was born.

Judging from my reading of world literature from different periods, I'm also under the impression that people previously had a capacity, a readiness to sometimes allow themselves to exit from that material approach to others - a capacity that - also according to my own interpretation - we seem to have lost.

gnat
Dear Gnat, these are the questions we must ask of ourselves? It could be so. I would agree at this time to the fact that Materialism is greater and deeper than we give it credit for.

We are gifted Baha'u'llah, but in reality have no concept of what we are to achieve. The Love you talked about above is a reality, there is such Love and Friendship as this. How much of it is in us we have yet to determine.

If we had True Unity, then and only then would it be apparent that it had started to vanish from us!

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 07-05-2015, 01:16 PM   #20
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If we had True Unity, then and only then would it be apparent that it had started to vanish from us!
Tony is a deepwater fish.

Best from

gnat
 
Old 07-05-2015, 04:46 PM   #21
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What really frightens me is that the treatment meted out to our brethren in the cradle of the faith is so similar to nazi treatment of the Jews in the 30s. It's all about dehumanising. Again, what does the "civilised" world do? Zero,zilch,nada
 
Old 07-05-2015, 04:53 PM   #22
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What really frightens me is that the treatment meted out to our brethren in the cradle of the faith is so similar to nazi treatment of the Jews in the 30s. It's all about dehumanising. Again, what does the "civilised" world do? Zero,zilch,nada
Dehumanization is the name of the game: presenting "the Other" as something less than human - practiced all over the world, on a micro level as well as on the macro level. The rest of the world - well it does a lot more than we think, although for the most part in silence. Ever heard of secret diplomacy?

gnat
 
Old 07-05-2015, 05:02 PM   #23
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Dehumanization is the name of the game: presenting "the Other" as something less than human - practiced all over the world, on a micro level as well as on the macro level. The rest of the world - well it does a lot more than we think, although for the most part in silence. Ever heard of secret diplomacy?

gnat
Brother, do you really think the international men in suits are all that bothered about an "insignificant" powerless group of pacifist people in Iran?
 
Old 07-05-2015, 05:03 PM   #24
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Brother, do you really think the international men in suits are all that bothered about an "insignificant" powerless group of pacifist people in Iran?
In fact, yes. I've been in those circles.

gnat
 
Old 07-05-2015, 05:08 PM   #25
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In fact, yes. I've been in those circles.

gnat
You can't leave that gem of intrigue hanging bro! Illucidate please lol
 
Old 07-05-2015, 05:23 PM   #26
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What really frightens me is that the treatment meted out to our brethren in the cradle of the faith is so similar to nazi treatment of the Jews in the 30s. It's all about dehumanising. Again, what does the "civilised" world do? Zero,zilch,nada
Aidan - Yes dear friend this is very sad treatment.

So many news articles coming out from Iran about this form of Harassment. Their Faith feeds ours dear friend, so may we all tap into the injustices dished out to them and put it in to action where we can.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 07-05-2015, 05:33 PM   #27
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You can't leave that gem of intrigue hanging bro! Illucidate please lol
Flying around ready to bite

Cheers Tony
 
Old 07-05-2015, 06:06 PM   #28
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What really frightens me is that the treatment meted out to our brethren in the cradle of the faith is so similar to nazi treatment of the Jews in the 30s. It's all about dehumanising. Again, what does the "civilised" world do? Zero,zilch,nada
What would you have them do? Go to war over us?
 
Old 07-05-2015, 07:09 PM   #29
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What would you have them do? Go to war over us?
Dear smaneck - I am sure there would be ways that would not require this if there was motivation enough!

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 07-05-2015, 09:34 PM   #30
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Dear smaneck - I am sure there would be ways that would not require this if there was motivation enough!

God Bless and Regards Tony
Let's not blame others for lack of motivation if we can't even figure out what they should do.
 
Old 07-05-2015, 10:06 PM   #31
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as some one living already in Iran I think the world has stayed TOO SILENT about the matter of Baha'is in Iran. we cannot do anything from inside the country but those who are outside and specially UN do nothing, really nothing. only every now and then they may write a letter to governors of Iran yet they know that letters are of no value. everyone is really sitting in silence watching the horror movie going on in some countries. where is the Baha'i "action"; I have no idea!
 
Old 07-05-2015, 10:23 PM   #32
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Let's not blame others for lack of motivation if we can't even figure out what they should do.
I knew your reply before I read it

What is required, Unity of action against the oppressor, now what unity of action should be taken is for them to decide. The writings are clear on these matters.

Now is this suggestion going to change what they do or do not do! Will it change their motivations!

Most likely not, thus where does the blame lie?

From our level we try to change what we can change, ourselves. as we progress in this thus does the power to reflect change to others.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 07-05-2015, 10:33 PM   #33
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as some one living already in Iran I think the world has stayed TOO SILENT about the matter of Baha'is in Iran. we cannot do anything from inside the country but those who are outside and specially UN do nothing, really nothing. only every now and then they may write a letter to governors of Iran yet they know that letters are of no value. everyone is really sitting in silence watching the horror movie going on in some countries. where is the Baha'i "action"; I have no idea!
Dear Maryamr - There is a lot of press out in The West re the persecutions of the Baha'is in Iran. It is taken often to high places which only result in mostly Words. Most people are too caught up in their own struggles so pass these matters by with little reflection upon them. At on time I actually wrote to all the leaders of Iran, posted them from Australia Most likely added to the grief of the Baha'is?

Rest assured there is many an activity aimed at getting Justice for the Bahai's.

Yes more needs to be done, I passed the stories on to the local papers in the Solomon Islands and being Christian Editors, I feel this reflected the stories not being printed.

Unity of action on a large scale is needed, how and when this will happen will be in our prayers.

God Bless and Regards Tony
 
Old 07-05-2015, 11:54 PM   #34
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Dear Maryamr - There is a lot of press out in The West re the persecutions of the Baha'is in Iran. It is taken often to high places which only result in mostly Words. Most people are too caught up in their own struggles so pass these matters by with little reflection upon them. At on time I actually wrote to all the leaders of Iran, posted them from Australia Most likely added to the grief of the Baha'is?

Rest assured there is many an activity aimed at getting Justice for the Bahai's.

Yes more needs to be done, I passed the stories on to the local papers in the Solomon Islands and being Christian Editors, I feel this reflected the stories not being printed.

Unity of action on a large scale is needed, how and when this will happen will be in our prayers.

God Bless and Regards Tony
Tony, your writing a letter to Iranian leaders is really a precious act. it is also very valuable which there are people who write about the matter and care for people. but the kind of action I am talking about is something bigger and more effective and cannot be done by ordinary people. as i said it should be done by an organization like UN; I don't know how, even by pressing sanctions upon Iranian leaders to make them correct their behavior. but maybe even this is not enough anyway, i think Iran is at the verge of destruction and if this happens, after many years a new generation will occupy the land and then things may get better....
 
Old 07-06-2015, 01:04 AM   #35
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Tony, your writing a letter to Iranian leaders is really a precious act. it is also very valuable which there are people who write about the matter and care for people. but the kind of action I am talking about is something bigger and more effective and cannot be done by ordinary people. as i said it should be done by an organization like UN; I don't know how, even by pressing sanctions upon Iranian leaders to make them correct their behavior. but maybe even this is not enough anyway, i think Iran is at the verge of destruction and if this happens, after many years a new generation will occupy the land and then things may get better....
Dear Maryamr, I agree the larger action is what is needed. You are all in our prayers, we will be with you as it happens. May God give to you all the Faith and Love required for such times. You are all in our hearts, please always remember this.

Yes the result of all this is assured, The Lesser Peace will unfold over the upcoming years, The Most Great Peace will come.

God bless and regards Tony
 
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