|04-17-2011, 10:20 PM||#1|
Joined: Dec 2010
verse from the bible Matthew 13:24-30
Since we are on the topic of the bible. I want to see what people generally think this very interesting verse means. Anyone is open to give their opinion. Cheers.
24 Jesus told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25 But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26 When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27 “The owner’s servants came to him and said, ‘Sir, didn’t you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?’
28 “‘An enemy did this,’ he replied.
“The servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up?’
29 “‘No,’ he answered, ‘because while you are pulling the weeds, you may uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.’”
|04-17-2011, 10:26 PM||#2|
Joined: Oct 2010
From: Phoenix, AZ
I think it is quite clear and discusses heaven and hell. Sinners and saints will not be separated until the Day of Judgment.
I think this is intended to explain why anything bad exists in the world so that his followers might be at ease with those who stand against them. It also teaches that the bad people shouldn't be punished by his followers, but rather left alone so as to not antagonize and bring unrest to those who are good.
Last edited by Lunitik; 04-17-2011 at 10:30 PM.
|04-17-2011, 10:55 PM||#3|
Joined: Sep 2010
From: Tropical North Queensland Australia
"And his disciples came to him, saying, ‘Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field.’ He answered, ‘He who sows the good seed is the Son of man; the field is the world, and the good seed means the sons of the kingdom; the weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the close of the age. The Son of man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all evildoers, and throw them into the furnace of fire; there men will weep and gnash their teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has an ear let him hear." Matthew 13:36-43
Verily, the Harvest Day hath come and all things are separated one from another. That which was chosen is stored in the vessels of justice, and into the fire was cast what was fitted for it. Thus hath decided thy Lord, the Mighty, the Beloved, in this Promised Day. Verily He ordaineth whatsoever He pleaseth. There is no God but He, the Mighty, the Subduer! The Sifter did not wish but to store every good thing for Myself. He did not speak but to inform you of My Cause and guide you into the Path of Him by whose mention all the sacred Books of the world are adorned.
Christ spoke much in parables about a great Day of Judgment when “the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father … and … shall reward every man according to his works” (Matt. xvi, 27). He compares this Day to the time of harvest, when the tares are burned and the wheat gathered into barns:—
Last edited by tonyfish58; 04-18-2011 at 11:36 PM. Reason: Bad link inserted
|04-18-2011, 03:00 AM||#4|
Joined: Sep 2010
From: United Kingdom
However some biblical scholars regard the interpretation as coming not from Jesus but from Matthew, so its interpretation could still be open to other meanings.
An abbreviated version of the parable also appears in the Gospel of Thomas (Saying 57), which does not offer any interpretation but leaves it up too the reader. Thomas lacks a developed eschatology, so the Thomasine community probably understood the parable in a non-apocalyptic way.
St. Augustine pointed out that the invisible distinction between "wheat" and "weeds" also runs through the Church:
O you Christians, whose lives are good, you sigh and groan as being few among many, few among very many. The winter will pass away, the summer will come; lo! The harvest will soon be here. The angels will come who can make the separation, and who cannot make mistakes. ... I tell you of a truth, my Beloved, even in these high seats there is both wheat, and tares, and among the laity there is wheat, and tares. Let the good tolerate the bad; let the bad change themselves, and imitate the good. Let us all, if it may be so, attain to God; let us all through His mercy escape the evil of this world. Let us seek after good days, for we are now in evil days; but in the evil days let us not blaspheme, that so we may be able to arrive at the good days
The Parable of the Tares has often been cited in support of various degrees of religious toleration of heretical Christians.
In his "Letter to Bishop Roger of Chalons", Bishop Wazo of Liege (c. 985-1048 AD) relied on the parable to argue that "the church should let dissent grow with orthodoxy until the Lord comes to separate and judge them".
Gnostics, Docetists, Arians etc. (The equivalent of Baha'i covenant-breakers) should not be persecuted according to this interpretation of this Parable and indeed should be left to dispute and argue with each other and grow until the Second Coming of Christ.
John Milton, in Areopagitica (1644), calling for freedom of speech and condemning Parliament's attempt to license printing, referred to the parable:
(I)t is not possible for man to sever the wheat from the tares, the good fish from the other fry; that must be the Angels' ministry at the end of mortal things
Here is the shorter version of the parable from Thomas:
(57) Jesus said: The kingdom of the Father is like a man who had [good] seed. His enemy came by night and sowed weeds among the good seed. The man did not allow them to pull up the weeds. He said to them: Lest you go and pull up the weeds, (and) pull up the wheat with it. For on the day of the harvest the weeds will be manifest; they will be pulled up and burned.
Here is a non-eschatological interpretation of the version from Thomas:
The kingdom of the father is like a man who had good seed.
The man represents the Self. The good seed is the Truth that is in the mind.
His enemy came by night and sowed weeds among the good seed.
The enemy of those who have Love and Truth are those who teach what is not true as if it were. By night means when the Self does not realise what is happening, and cannot tell what he is being taught is not true.
The man did not allow them to pull up the weeds
The Self did not allow anyone to take away what he believed in.
'I am afraid that you will go intending to pull up the weeds and pull up the wheat along with them.'
Not seeing the difference between the Truth and lies, he was afraid that he would lose the Truth along with the lies.
For on the day of the harvest the weeds will be plainly visible, and they will be pulled up and burned.
On the day that the Self comes to know itself, it will see plainly that which is untrue and these things will be destroyed. Self realisation causes the harvest, which is the collecting and storing of Truth (the grain) in the heart.
From this website: http://gospelofthomas.webs.com/logia5160.htm
Nevertheless there are many scholars who still think that Thomas had an eschatological view of this Parable as well...
Funk and Hoover write: "Although the version in Thomas lacks the appended allegorical interpretation, there is a distant echo of the final apocalyptic judgment made explicit in Matthew. This note is alien to Thomas, so it must have been introduced into the Christian tradition at an early date, probably by the first followers of Jesus who had been disciples of John the Baptist. Thomas retained the parable because it suggested, for his readers, that there were two kinds of persons in the world, those 'in the know' (members of the sect) and those dull of hearing." (The Five Gospels, p. 505)
Last edited by Yeshua; 04-18-2011 at 03:13 AM.
|04-18-2011, 05:09 AM||#5|
Joined: Jun 2006
The parable I like is the one about the laborers on different shifts getting the same pay and the complaining to the Master that they were more deserving because they came earlier...
20:1 For the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which went out early in the morning to hire labourers into his vineyard.
20:2 And when he had agreed with the labourers for a penny a day, he sent them into his vineyard.
20:3 And he went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 20:4 And said unto them; Go ye also into the vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will give you. And they went their way.
20:5 Again he went out about the sixth and ninth hour, and did likewise.
20:6 And about the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle, and saith unto them, Why stand ye here all the day idle? 20:7 They say unto him, Because no man hath hired us. He saith unto them, Go ye also into the vineyard; and whatsoever is right, that shall ye receive.
20:8 So when even was come, the lord of the vineyard saith unto his steward, Call the labourers, and give them their hire, beginning from the last unto the first.
20:9 And when they came that were hired about the eleventh hour, they received every man a penny.
20:10 But when the first came, they supposed that they should have received more; and they likewise received every man a penny.
20:11 And when they had received it, they murmured against the goodman of the house, 20:12 Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.
20:13 But he answered one of them, and said, Friend, I do thee no wrong: didst not thou agree with me for a penny? 20:14 Take that thine is, and go thy way: I will give unto this last, even as unto thee.
20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good? 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.
(King James Bible, Matthew)
You can see this parable applying to those who claim to have "worked" the vineyard earlier as opposed to those came later... Followers of each dispensation make their claims .. "We were here first and those guys came later..we're more deserving!"
|04-18-2011, 05:45 AM||#6|
Joined: Dec 2010
I thank everyone for making a post.
THe idea of the weeds being left to grow (amongst other things here) is interesting to me. It reminds me of this quote from the seven valleys which is actually quoting the Quran.
"Should God punish men for their perverse doings, He would not leave on earth a moving thing! But to an appointed term doth He respite them...."
So let the weeds grow and let them go about their business but in the end God will eventually get to the perverse and give them their due.
Whilst the good crop goes to the barn (heaven). Could the burning of the weeds be symbol of the fires of hell? 0:
Last edited by LordOfGoblins; 04-18-2011 at 05:50 AM.
|04-18-2011, 08:01 AM||#7|
Joined: Sep 2010
From: United Kingdom
|04-18-2011, 08:05 AM||#8|
Joined: Sep 2010
From: United Kingdom
As with all Jesus' parables however, there are multiple layers of meaning and everybody is encouraged to interpret them for themselves. In fact that is what Jesus told us to do, "Seek and ye shall find"....
|07-23-2012, 03:58 PM||#9|
Joined: Sep 2010
Here is the Islamic Version:
Hadith Bukhari 1:532
Bukhari Narrated Salim bin 'Abdullah:
My father said, "I heard Allah's Apostle saying, 'The period of your stay as compared to the previous nations is like the period equal to the time between the 'Asr prayer and sunset. The people of the Torah were given the Torah and they acted (upon it) till mid-day then they were exhausted and were given one Qirat (of gold) each. And then the people of the Gospel were given the Gospel and they acted (upon it) till the 'Asr prayer then they were exhausted and were! given one Qirat each. And then we were given the Qur'an and we acted (upon it) till sunset and we were given two Qirats each. On that the people of both the scriptures said, 'O our Lord! You have given them two Qirats and given us one Qirat, though we have worked more than they.' Allah said, 'Have I usurped some of your right?' They said, 'No.' Allah said: "That is my blessing I bestow upon whomsoever I wish."
1:533 Narrated Abu Musa:
The Prophet said, "The example of Muslims, Jews and Christians is like the example of a man who employed laborers to work for him from morning till night. They worked till mid-day and they said, 'We are not in need of your reward.' SO the man employed another batch and said to them, 'Complete the rest of the day and yours will be the wages I had fixed (for the first batch). They worked Up till the time of the 'Asr prayer and said, 'Whatever we have done is for you.' He employed another batch. They worked for the rest of the day till sunset, and they received the wages of the two former batches."
Narrated Abu Musa:
The Prophet said, "The example of Muslims, Jews and Christians is like the example of a man who employed laborers to work for him from morning till night for specific wages. They worked till midday and then said, 'We do not need your money which you have fixed for us and let whatever we have done be annulled.' The man said to them, 'Don't quit the work, but complete the rest of it and take your full wages.' But they refused and went away. The man employed another batch after them and said to them, 'Complete the rest of the day and yours will be the wages I had fixed for the first batch.' So, they worked till the time of 'Asr prayer. Then they said, "Let what we have done be annulled and keep the wages you have promised us for yourself.' The man said to them, 'Complete the rest of the work, as only a little of the day remains,' but they refused. Thereafter he employed another batch to work for the rest of the day and they worked for the rest of the day till the sunset, and they received the wages of the two former batches. So, that was the example of those people (Muslims) and the example of this light (guidance) which they have accepted willingly.
Last edited by InvestigateTruth; 07-23-2012 at 04:00 PM.
|07-23-2012, 04:47 PM||#10|
chief bottle washer
Joined: Jun 2011
From: "Here am I, Here am I"
This parable also makes me think about the covenenant and those who follow it and those who break it.