wombatwolf

Some of you may have seen my earlier post "How do you guys do it" below- I'd like to expand upon this just a bit.

I have absolutely no quandaries about the spiritual tenets/beliefs of the Baha'i faith. But I believe it might be time for me to address come personal misgivings I have at the moments in the hope to get clarification. Many of you are no doubt familiar with some of this, but I wasn't able to find it in particular.

- The administration of the UHJ and the general mindset of the administration

It seems to me like what is being implied is that we (Baha'is) want to create a theocracy, based exclusively on our faith and the laws set down in our book. But is this really what it says? Much of the interpretation seems to have been done after Baha'u'llah's death, and the interpretation has been that the UHJ is it's own thing, and that the other houses of justice are their own separate entities, but that, most importantly, they are based exclusively on Baha'i law. Is this correct, or a correct way to be thinking? Because it seems to me that, barring extreme divine intervention, this isn't ever going to happen, and wishing for it to happen or encouraging it to happen will only serve to demean the reputation of the Baha'i faith as the religion that "wants to rule the world".


-The "covenant breakers"

A lot of the criticism I have seen in that when people bring up criticisms or are concerned with some sort of discussion/basic reform within the UHJ, they are immediately ousted as covenant breakers. This seems ridiculous to me.


"When a person declares his acceptance of Bahá'u'lláh as a Manifestation of God he becomes a party to the Covenant and accepts the totality of His Revelation. If he then turns round and attacks Bahá'u'lláh or the Central Institution of the Faith he violates the Covenant. If this happens every effort is made to help that person to see the illogicality and error of his actions, but if he persists he must, in accordance with the instructions of Bahá'u'lláh Himself, be shunned as a Covenant-breaker."



The whole concept of the covenant breaker seems to have been reserved for those who truly did something harmful to the community, not just suggested reform or open dialogue. As such, because any hope of reform or expansion is met with harsh repression, there can never be any reform or expansion to end the harsh repression.



--And of course the whole "ID Card" and book censorship things are a little unnerving to me.--


Please take these comments as someone sincerely looking for answers and not an attacker of any sort, hoping to gain confidence in my convictions. Thank you very much!

cire perdue

I do not blame you for what you are thinking. If one reads the arguments of that very vocal few found on the internet it is easy to start criticizing and thinking as they do. However these are issues that you don't find without going and looking for them. There are handfuls of people who have done graduate work on the Baha'i Faith and go on to teach Eastern Studies. Some become contentious and attached to their own points of view. They have been disenrolled and/or withdrawn. Baha'is sources do not carry their books. I don't want to read them. Sometime all these people needed to do was wait or think further, but they were too self important or blind to see their effects on others. What do you think that does in a community of Baha'is. We practice unity, not contention. It is more important to be considerate than to be right. I have lost more in this world from being right about things than I can recount. It is vastly over-rated.

We are only 170 years old. However we are probably larger than Christianity at the same time. I have seen a lot of criticism of one particular writing of Baha'u'llah's, saying that The Master "over-interpreted" it, that it was NOT enough for that to be forbidden, it has to change. Well first of all don't you think you could probably extrapolate what your father thinks about most things? Abdul'baha spent his entire life in service with/to/for his Father. Okay, THEN more Writings are translated and even more clearly state the point, so there is no doubt. These Writings have always been at hand for The Universal House of Justice and Persian readers. Okay, what do you do with people who were willing to undermine the teaching the first time? What if they keep doing this? They have personal issues that they need to work on. We don't need to have them become disruptive, but they persist. IF you pick apart things you are not helping. Some will not accept not knowing something or accepting things. It can get ugly. I am glad I have protection from people who won't consider their effect on others.

You just don't have to answer all criticism. Usually for many critics there are no answers, no matter what you say, they will always have objections. It is important to become connected to this Faith so that you can pass those by. It is a spiritual battle that you have to fight for yourself. So many of these arguments are words that start and end with words and impart nothing spiritual. It is and remains a matter of the heart and soul. Without acknowledging that, words won't help. Consider the attitude behind these attacks. It is the most primal initial defense to blame others in a self preservation reaction, but to spiritual means not reacting, but choosing actions that match your virtues.

If being organized and having IDs is wrong, then all the churches are just as wrong. You can go to Feast in NYC with your ID card. It is a necessary thing to keep up with everyone, to stay in touch, to communicate. Without organization we'd all be growing our own food and making our own clothes. With a Baha'i ID I can present myself to Baha'is anywhere in the world. If you go on Pilgrimage you will be taken to all the sites, have a tour guide, be fed a few times, given facilities to prepare and store food, and be treated as a guest in someone's home. You will be unable to find even a prayer book for sale, the World Centre sells nothing at all, no mention of funds will be made. You are responsible for where you stay and nearly all your meals, but otherwise you are truly cared for. It will not matter if you gave to the Funds or not, it's not any concern. Your presence is the concern. I'll take the ID, please.

Last point. Don't take on other people's issues. If they are arguing, let them. Focus on yourself. It is a teaching not to deal with the flaws of others, keep your eyes on yours. Hang onto the part of you that perceives and loves this Faith, it can fade if not nutured.

kavaliro

Establish a theocracy? Mmmm, yes, sort of, but not by force. Baha'i Law only governs Baha'is, until the point where practically everyone is Baha'i, and then it will be a de facto theocracy, I suppose.

By "is it's own thing" I'm guessing you mean, "stands alone in being Infallible in legislating on topics not outwardly revealed in the Writings." Then yes. The Universal House of Justice is the final Authority on Earth, except when there is a living Manifestation. The other Houses of Justices (which are generally called Spiritual Assemblies at this stage) are subject to the Baha'i Laws and the decisions of the Universal House of Justice. Someone more steeped in Baha'i knowledge than I could probably do a better job of explaining that, though.

This is undoubtedly because those people are directly challenging the Authority of the Universal House of Justice, and refused to back down on it. I have absolutely zero doubt that the utmost care and thought is exercised before someone is branded a Covenant-breaker. It is just not something that is lightly done! Even the removal of a Baha'i's administrative rights is a very serious thing, and not done without great care. If the stories you are hearing sound as if it were done flippantly, it pretty much a guarantee it wasn't the whole story.

What you're talking about sounds like democracy. The Baha'i Administrative Order, although it does have some traits of a a democracy, is not a democracy. It is a fusion of the best and most fruitful features of several different types of government. It is something entirely new that the world has not seen before. This is explained in the Writings, and I highly recommend looking there for a more full explanation. So the idea of trying to reform the Universal House of Justice or the Administrative order the way one would attempt to reform a democracy is doomed from conception. The House of Justice and indeed the whole of the Administrative Order is not something that can be steered by political sway, which is what these misguided individuals have attempted. And that's a hard pill to swallow for some, because they are accustomed to being able to "march on the Whitehouse lawn," so to speak. Even if a person were asking the right questions but doing it in the wrong way, it would be wrong and a rebuke would be coming. As a father, I can tell you it works that way in my house, too!


The ID Card is specific to the country as far as I know. Maybe someone else can say for sure. It should be no more unnerving than a driver's license, social security card, or passport. I imagine the back of your mind is probably screaming, "Mark of the Beast!" or something similar. If so, it's due to Christian indoctrination. I'll say two things about that: first, the mark of the beast is explained by Baha'u'llah. If you accept that Baha'u'llah is a Manifestation, then you can be at ease that the card is not the mark of the beast after reading His explanation. Secondly, from a Christian standpoint: the Mark of the Beast is only given on the hand or forehead, right? So it's not a card. You can relax about it even if you don't accept Baha'u'llah as a Manifestation. It really and truly is just right-wing Christian propaganda/doctrine that causes this concern. I came from an extreme Christian background. I had the same concerns before I sat down and really thought about it logically.

As for book censorship: discouragement is not the same as censorship. I've never seen anything like: "Under no circumstances is a Baha'i allowed to read <insert book title here>."

On the other hand, I do tell my children what books they are not allowed to read. I'm under no illusions that "any knowledge is good knowledge." Some knowledge is vile poison. But I'm not going to burn a book simply to be rid of it. Bleach is toxic but I keep some in my house, and my children are taught not to drink it. It's the same thing with books. I tell them what they should not read, and they either accept that I am right or they suffer from the mistake of reading it and deal with their own conscience and consequences.

I guess what I'm saying is, it's up to the individual to accept or disregard advice on which books are toxic. And such a thing would almost certainly be worded as advice, based on what I've seen.

arthra

Wombat wrote:

It seems to me like what is being implied is that we (Baha'is) want to create a theocracy, based exclusively on our faith and the laws set down in our book. But is this really what it says? Much of the interpretation seems to have been done after Baha'u'llah's death, and the interpretation has been that the UHJ is it's own thing, and that the other houses of justice are their own separate entities, but that, most importantly, they are based exclusively on Baha'i law.

My comment:

What is important is to understand a few things about this Faith..

First you have the Writings and the Interpretations of Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi.

The Writings specify Baha'i laws and Institutions.

Secondly you have the Universal House of Justice which can be found referred to by Baha'u'llah, Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi..

http://bahai-library.com/compilation_establishment_uhj

Today the House of Justice is the Center of the Faith..The House is concerned with any issues facing Baha'is that are not specifically mentioned in the Writings.

The House must have full regard for the Interpretations made by Abdul-Baha and the Guardian and cannot change them.

Elected:

The House of Justice and the National Spiritual Assemblies as well as Regional bodies and the Local Spiritual Assemblies are all elective.

Appointive:

The House of Justice also appoints Counselors which in turn can appoint Auxiliary Board Members..and these have as their interest propagation and protection of the Faith from the local level up.

Shoghi Effendi also wrote:

The Bahá'í Commonwealth of the future, of which this vast Administrative Order is the sole framework, is, both in theory and practice, not only unique in the entire history of political institutions, but can find no parallel in the annals of any of the world's recognized religious systems. No form of democratic government; no system of autocracy or of dictatorship, whether monarchical or republican; no intermediary scheme of a purely aristocratic order; nor even any of the recognized types of theocracy, whether it be the Hebrew Commonwealth, or the various Christian ecclesiastical organizations, or the Imamate or the Caliphate in Islam -- none of these can be identified or be said to conform with the Administrative Order which the master-hand of its perfect Architect has fashioned.

~ Shoghi Effendi, The World Order of Baha'u'llah, p. 152

LordOfGoblins

But why critisize the universal house of Justice. Why do it? It is the will of Baha'u'llah that it be established and that it run as it does on top of the mountain of God as per the bible prophecy. So what is the point in people coming inside the faith and critisizing the central institution? Such things whether they feel they are constructive or not are really completely pointless. Dont you think the people who work at the world centre and working flat out night and day to improve the faith? Arnt they humble servants doing their work to help the faiths affairs run and spread in the world. I question people who do such things because I think that their intention is not out of love for Baha'u'llah to want to see this faith grow. No, that is difficult. It is hard to go out and serve and do selfless things. Rather it is easy to just attack and be negative. That being said you can send letters to the world centre about any issues you have and there is no reason you would be branded a covenant breaker on that basis. Its just some perverted internet cites who make the House look tyrannous. Well that is their own failing. The universal house of Justice is here to stay and people should get used to it..
cheers

BruceDLimber

Quote:

Originally Posted by wombatwolf "... every effort is made to help that person to see the illogicality and error of his actions ...

You obviously need to reread and understand the above statement, which you quoted yourself but then apparently ignored.

NO ONE is immediately cast out, as you implied.

And as to ID cards, only certain countries use them. One of the reasons they're important is that only enrolled Baha'is are permitted to contribute to the Baha'i Funds, so there needs to be a way to know who is (or isn't) enrolled. Simple as that.

Peace, :-)

Bruce

cire perdue

"This book was written in response to a pseudo-academic monograph on the Bahá'í Faith by an embittered ex-Bahá'í, Francesco Ficicchia, claiming to be the standard work on the Faith and published in Germany under church auspices. For over 15 years the accusations raised in Ficicchia's book largely shaped public and academic perception of the Bahá'í Faith in German-speaking Europe, damaging its reputation with a picture of an authoritarian cadre-dominated cult with totalitarian, fascist goals.

Schaefer, Towfigh and Gollmer's reply, Disinformation also Method, published in 1995, has succeeded in changing the climate brought about by Ficicchia's book. This translation is therefore of interest not only to academics but also to all those concerned with the protection and growth of the Bahá'í Faith and its institutions, and who wish to understand the issues likely to arouse opposition to it in the near future."

Making the Crooked Straight


Unfortunately the book is $69. However it appears that quote from Wikipedia that I cannot find: ...world government, which rests on the spiritual foundations of a syncretic-messianic world religion, that will later reveal itself to be a dystopian world empire... is a result of Ficicchia's work. I am glad this all came up, because even if I were to find that quote in wikipedia now, it seems it is more fear mongering using "....the mark of the beast....." 666.......

When one of the usual of us gets upset we talk to our friends, when our boss lets us go, we get a new job, when a scholar or academic is upset they write a book. Books create bigger presences than can be creditable.

I am glad all this came up, I got to find stuff I did not know I could and got answers I had not expected. Thanks to all, nayers and yeahers.

MAWillsey

fyi- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Wor...spiracy_theory)