LordOfGoblins

I want to leave this thread for people to discuss verses that are more difficult in the kitabe Aqdas and their possible meanings. I will start with this one. If anyone has some insights please dont hesitate to post them.

"Behold, the “mystery of the Great Reversal in the Sign of the Sovereign” hath now been made manifest. Well is it with him whom God hath aided to recognize the “Six” raised up by virtue of this “Upright Alif”; he, verily, is of those whose faith is true. How many the outwardly pious who have turned away, and how many the wayward who have drawn nigh, exclaiming: “All praise be to Thee, O Thou the Desire of the worlds!” In truth, it is in the hand of God to give what He willeth to whomsoever He willeth, and to withhold what He pleaseth from whomsoever He may wish. He knoweth the inner secrets of the hearts and the meaning hidden in a mocker’s wink. How many an embodiment of heedlessness who came unto Us with purity of heart have We established upon the seat of Our acceptance; and how many an exponent of wisdom have We in all justice consigned to the fire. We are, in truth, the One to judge. He it is Who is the manifestation of “God doeth whatsoever He pleaseth”, and abideth upon the throne of “He ordaineth whatsoever He chooseth”. "

What is the "six" that Baha'u'llah is talking about? Is this sortof like the 24 elders type thing? I dont know any other references to six in the writings elswhere, which is why I am asking. What could this "six" mean?
thankyou

Fadl

The sign of the sovereign is something that was important in Shykhism, and was about the coming of the qaim and qayyum. I do not know much more about it than that, but I can show you what the sign looks like.

This is the letter wow (vav for Persians): و and this is the letter alef: أ therefore, a pair of them is: وأو . The numerical value of و is six, and the numerical value of أ is 1. Its quite possible, even likely, that the numerical values come in to play, but unfortunately, I don't know how. The numerical value of Allah is 66 (numerically two و s side by side). I don't know if that's significant, but it's interesting to note.

With exception to what I have just shared and the notes of the Aqdas on the topic, I don't know what it means. However, it is basically a confirmation of that sign or prophecy having been fulfilled.

Here are the notes on the subject:

Sorry I can't be of more help, but I'm glad you've started what's sure to be an interesting thread, and I'm glad to see you're studying the good book!

aidan

Might "six" refer to Moses,Abraham,Jesus,Mohammed(pbuh),Bab and Baha'u' llah the 6 manifestations best known to Baha'is? Also could the figure 6 "raised up" become the figure 9?

cire perdue

No one can say you are incorrect, but it is unlikely. There are 5 million Baha'is in India, so Krishna is more well known to Baha'is for instance. Most of the things that Westerners do not understand probably fall under references to the Qu'ran. That leaves a lot. I continue to find it proof of a religion that at times there can be so little to share like no books and for Christianity it was world of mouth and the change in people that mostly taught it, yet it flourished over time.

Sboyce

the name for the letter "Vav" consists of three letters: Vav, Alif, Vav. According to the abjad reckoning, the numerical value of each of these letters is 6, 1 and 6 respectively. Shoghi Effendi in a letter written on his behalf to one of the believers in the East provides an interpretation of this verse of the Aqdas. He states that the Upright Alif" refers to the advent of the Báb. The first letter with its value of six, which comes before the Alif, is a symbol of earlier Dispensations and Manifestations which predate the Báb, while the third letter, which also has a numerical value of six, stands for Bahá'u'lláh's supreme Revelation which was made manifest after the Alif.

in other words the upright alif is the final 6 of the 616. Which caught me off guard a few months ago as that is an early number of the Beast.

Essence of GOD

1. Adam
2. Noah
3. Abraham
4. Moses
5. Jesus
6. Mohammad

LordOfGoblins

thanks dude. Why those particular messengers of God though?

cire perdue

7. Zoroaster
8. Krishna
9. Buddha

BruceDLimber

10. Hud
11. Salih
12. the Bab
13. the founder of the Sabaean Faith, whose name is forgotten.


Bruce

Fadl

Dear friends,

This is off topic, but I wanted to mention this issue of the Nine manifestations that seem to be popular with us Baha'is. While listing the "nine manifestations of God" as above, is perhaps fine for introducing the concept of progressive revelation in children's classes, it's actually not in our teachings, and not at all accurate. The closest you can get to this, in in the writings of the Guardian who says that the faith "constitutes the ninth in the line of existing religions". Just consider for a moment, that, if you are counting existing religions in the Jewish faith alone there are dozens of Manifestations of God. As the Guardian enumerated religions as an example, and not manifestations, the list of nine manifestations is inadequate and far from inclusive, so let's abandon it all together. It tends to exclude people when we should seek to include them. The Guardian said about the nine existing religions: "the question of exactly which are the nine existing religions is controversial, and it would be better to avoid it." So if we should avoid listing even the nine religions, how much more so should we avoid listing the nine manifestations? Especially when the nine manifestations concept is just false!

What follows is guidance from the guardian on this topic, and I hope you will give it consideration and retire the list of nine manifestations to the heap of false and disgarded ideas.

BruceDLimber

Yes: there are nine religions STILL LIVING, i.e., that still have followers today!

But this has NOTHING to do with the significance of the number nine and is pure coincidence!

The number nine is central for two reasons:

• The word "Baha" ("Glory"), in the Persian Abjad system, adds up to nine: 2+1+5+1.
• And because nine is the highest value expressible as a single digit (in the conventional decimal system), it's used as a symbol for unity.

Simple as that.

Peace, :-)

Bruce