Sboyce

I've been wondering if I am being guided or left alone. Not like God has left us and the Writings and Guidance are all that there is, but if anyone feels like God directs little things to try and get growing messages across and how we recognize them.

arthra

I was reading the following paragraph and wondered what you thought about it in terms of recognizing "signs"?

The unity which is productive of unlimited results is first a unity of mankind which recognizes that all are sheltered beneath the overshadowing glory of the All-Glorious; that all are servants of one God; for all breathe the same atmosphere, live upon the same earth, move beneath the same heavens, receive effulgence 258 from the same sun and are under the protection of one God.

This is the most great unity, and its results are lasting if humanity adheres to it; but mankind has hitherto violated it, adhering to sectarian or other limited unities such as racial, patriotic or unity of self-interests; therefore no great results have been forthcoming.

Nevertheless it is certain that the radiance and favors of God are encompassing,

minds have developed,

perceptions have become acute,

sciences and arts are widespread and capacity exists for the proclamation and promulgation of the real and ultimate unity of mankind which will bring forth marvelous results.

It will reconcile all religions,

make warring nations loving,

cause hostile kings to become friendly and bring peace and happiness to the human world.

It will cement together the Orient and Occident,

remove forever the foundations of war and upraise the ensign of the Most Great Peace.

These limited unities are therefore signs of that great unity which will make all the human family one by being productive of the attractions of conscience in mankind.

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith, p. 257

Pollwr

Sboyce,

I, too, have wondered about the same thing. Clearly we have the guidance of the writings. I have come to the conclusion that I am not important enough for God to micro-manage my life by giving me little nudges every step of the way but some people really seem to need that feeling that they are guided. I have heard it commented that when you get two strong personalities who hold this belief and they feel guided in opposite directions on the same project, life can be interesting!

Having said that, it sometimes seems that this system in which we exist comes with ways to nudge us onto the straight and narrow. I personally view that as God's wonderful design but would be interested to hear other ideas or any evidence from the writings that I am right or wrong.

"I adjure Thee by Thy might, O my God! Let no harm beset me in times of tests, and in moments of heedlessness guide my steps aright through Thine inspiration. Thou art God, potent art Thou to do what Thou desirest. No one can withstand Thy Will or thwart Thy Purpose."

(Compilations, Baha'i Prayers, p. 28)

kavaliro

My opinion: It depends on what you're talking about, really. It's kinda like picking up a radio station, in that when you are on the right frequency, the radio is able to turn the otherwise undetectable/unintelligible signal into sound and data. I may get a feeling that God's plan is for me to move to a new location, and usually my wife will also get this feeling. So then we begin looking for confirmations. If things begin falling into place almost of their own accord, then we consider that confirmation. This is exactly how we ended up living where we do now. We both expected a 5-year stay at this location, and things seem to be shaping up exactly so. Exactly why we are here? I couldn't say, it wasn't part of the message. But we try to stay open and listen and do what we feel God wants us to do.

On the other hand, if you're talking about signs like something that would herald in the Most Great Peace, well, these things are spelled out in the Writings. On the surface, one might say that the splitting of the atom was a terrible thing, since it caused such destruction. But having that kind of power has caused the world to realize that there is no future in atomic war, and by extension, any war. It's a slow process. There have been advances and setbacks. Another sign of the coming of age of Man, and a prerequisite for the establishment of the Most Great Peace, is the establishment of a universal auxiliary language. I've talked about this topic before on the forum. This, too, has had setbacks and advancements. It's within our grasp, but we cannot seem to get our act together enough to reach out and grab it, yet. I have come to understand that, since we are the lamp unto the world, all of God's virtues and bounties shine from us onto the world. I believe that every virtue and every bounty first has to be a seed planted by one of God's children. And in this case, I do not think the universal language will truly take hold until it is adopted by the Baha'i community internally for our own benefit, as Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi directed and encouraged. I consider that (Baha'i adoption) to be the seed that must be planted in order for the idea of a universal language to take root in the world. To put a fine point on it, I believe that the lethargy of the average Baha'i in learning Esperanto is what is keeping us from moving past the final milestone toward the Most Great Peace. Everybody seems to be waiting for a sign, particularly from the Universal House of Justice on this. Such a sign is unnecessary and unlikely (though not impossible) because 1. the course has already been laid out by Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi on this topic, and 2. it feels like it needs to happen naturally. Kinda like waiting for an egg to hatch: if you force an egg to crack, you can make cooked eggs, but if you let it crack on it's own, a baby chick comes out. For the universal language, the outcome needs to be a chick, not an omelet. But I digress.

The question is, "how do we recognise a sign?" By paying attention, and by studying the Writings so we know what signs to look for, by applying reason to what we have observed, and by confirmations. That's the best I can say.

aidan

I have often stated that I believe that English has developed and become the international language.Am I alone in thinking this?

cire perdue

I was just in the hospital with TIA/stroke/seizure possibly from accidental duplicate dose of zoloft, but found leision in my right frontal cortex. I seem to be fine. I went in Sunday and got out this p.m. I missed the Forum terribly...

ON the thread about a "sign" from God. I did not know where I was and did not know until the next day. I do not remember going in the hospital and was taken by 911. I do know that while crying and praying with ptsd memories cascading, despite disorientation I could remember The Tablet of Ahmad and was saying it silently over and over. Abdul'baha appeared to me in a cream fez, abba, and underrobe against the same colored background that had a line in it like 2 surfacing meeting, like boards. The Master's eyes were hazel/blue with pink/white wrinkled skin. The exact words are gone, but He assured me I would be taken care of. He told me that fun and laughter were part of love. Though tears continued to flow I had comfort that had no limits.
I improved fairly quickly.There were many borders that vanished between this world and the spiritual world. It was an amazing sign (?).

There will be solultions. It was truly a non-profit hospital. I had amazing teaching experiences, the receptive souls almost walked up to me. I had sitters provided by the hospital. I told at least 3 people to look it up on the internet. It feels like I got part of the reward of a hundred martyrs.

I sincerely believe it was a sign. However I do not reccommend the experience in order to receive a sign!

arthra

Cire Perdue,

Yes I wondered where you were.. That situation sounds fairly serious. You are in my prayers. Yes it's definitely a sign I believe!

I know when I was being wheeled to an operation a few years ago I was chanting Allha'u'Abha.. The woman wheeling me there was a Muslim and so for her benefit I also chanted Allah'u'Akbar... anyway the operation was a success!

kavaliro

You're definitely not alone in thinking that, but it's not realistic.

English doesn't meet the qualifications laid out by Abdu'l-Baha for the international language. Nor could any derivative of English, since in any case of an English pidgin language, there would be zero chance of prohibiting word creep from English to the pidgin, so there would truly never be a way to have one word per concept. it might be possible to meet the phonetic requirement, but definitely not with the 26 letter alphabet we currently use, so in all practicality, that would also be impossible. For Baha'is, it's clear from the Writings that it cannot be English or any existing national language, for similar reasons (and more I haven't mentioned.)

Also, and this is a very huge point when you think about it: Nothing less than actual selection by representatives of the nations of the world of one international language will satisfy the mandate of Baha'u'llah. Yet no nation would be willing to allow another nation's native language to be chosen, because that would permanently weaken all of the nations whose language didn't get chosen. So for that reason alone, we can be pretty much assured that English won't be the international language.

Actually, a study of either economics or linguistics would also dispel that belief. Even if you take the Baha'i Writings completely out of the equation, English has zero chance of maintaining dominance. Barring actual legislative interference, with the current economic and linguistic pressures, you better start learning Mandarin now. English doesn't even stand a remote chance. You'd be better off with a lottery ticket than counting on that long-shot.

So while you're not alone in thinking that, a study of what the Writings say on the subject will undoubtedly dispel that belief. I know that sounds snarky, but it's true, and I can't encourage studying the topic directly from the Writings highly enough. This is one of those topics in the Writings that is very difficult to distill down to a bite-sized portion, and so it almost invariably gets mangled in the telling. Due to the level of importance placed on it by Baha'u'llah, Abdu'l-Baha, and Shoghi Effendi, I'd personally say no course of Baha'i studies is complete without it.

kavaliro

Wow! I pray for your recovery, yet it certainly sounds like you were there for a purpose! Isn't there a Quote from the Writings or a Prayer about how God will turn your weaknesses into strengths? Your infirmity which causes you to take Zoloft was turned into a strength in that it allowed you to teach in a place where you would not otherwise have been. Thank you for sharing this.

cire perdue

The most startling side effect of all this IS I am now completely converted into a stand up comic. Give me a word and I will make it funny. Breathe wrong and I can do a routine. I had so much fun in the hospital it was exhausting. My episodes were legendary, and they only increased people's interest in me. It's Rain Wilson's fault, if he can find a way to drum naked appropriately then I can find ways to do humor..... I guess I learned to truly laugh in the face of death.........I had an opportunity to do so when I was told my pulse was 38 at 2 am one night and was on the phone, I insisted on knowing what it was and was told 38. I started laughing to the person on the phone. I asked him if he had ever heard anyone laugh in the face of death. He said I wasn't going to dye. I didn't, shoot, more work to do........Do you guys have number cards for posts to score them????? Wouldn't that be fun?????? That's a 4, a 2, a -8....... oh well........

Cire perdue means lost wax process. The wax must be fully melted before the gold may be poured in the mold. I have no idea how long one can be empty before one may have gold. Pouring the gold into the mold in reality is an almost instant process by centrifugal force. I think I lost some more wax, because melting out the wax if done carefully is a slower process that should be at least 6-8 to 12 hours. So my purpose in life is to become nothing.

So the 12 year old is asked, what is your purpose in life, what attracts your interest. "Oh, I want to become nothing.............I want to melt away so that gold can be poured into me....."

Hey at these prices we may have to settle for high content silver alloys!

Pollwr

Cire, glad to hear that you are recovering. It sounds like you had quite an experience. I will say a healing prayer for you. You certainly are missed when you are away from this forum.

Reflecting on my previous post on this thread, I do not cast any doubt on the sort of signs that Cire Perdue was mentioning during his recent experiences. I am just sceptical of the attitude some people have that everything that happens to them is a sign from God when quite often it can be down to the consequences of their own actions or just chance. For example, when someone says that it rained at a certain time so they went into a cafe to shelter and God must have wanted them to talk to that person they met. Some people who take this attitude can move away from the teachings and look to interpreting what is not there constantly.

Maybe the original post touched a bit of a raw nerve, having spent some time in the past with some people who really annoyed me, constantly looking for the personal sign for them from God in every daily occurence when I felt they could study a bit more and make more spiritually informed choices based on their knowledge of the Holy writings.

However, for the spirtually enlightened, I think an ability to see the signs of God in everything comes about. This is not a personal message to that person but a reminder of a certain perspective and a great source of joy and strength. I don't claim to have developed this but I supose we all have glimpses and it is something to aspire to.

"Every created being however revealeth His signs which are but emanations from Him and not His Own Self. All these signs are reflected and can be seen in the book of existence, and the scrolls that depict the shape and pattern of the universe are indeed a most great book. Therein every man of insight can perceive that which would lead to the Straight Path and would enable him to attain the Great Announcement. Consider the rays of the sun whose light hath encompassed the world. The rays emanate from the sun and reveal its nature, but are not the sun itself. Whatsoever can be discerned on earth amply demonstrateth the power of God, His knowledge and the outpourings of His bounty, while He Himself is immeasurably exalted above all creatures."

(Baha'u'llah, Tablets of Baha'u'llah, p. 60)

kavaliro

Sure! If everything is preordained, then you don't have to take responsibility for anything. It isn't our fault, right? When the repo man comes to take away our new car, well, the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away, right? Thinking that way gives a person a get-out-of-jail-free card.

On the other hand: "If I eat food that is blue, someone in my family is going to die." Obviously this comes from an OCD person, but it illustrates that it is equally wrong to think that we are responsible for everything that happens.

Rather, I believe that for the most part, we live our lives and experience cause and effect. We take an action, or fail to take an action, and this affects everything that comes afterward.

Yet we are also guided by God toward our destiny. We choose to be a part of God's Plan, or not. Yet we do not know God's Plan, except what He reveals to us, through Messengers, dreams, visions, etc. Some of that Revelation is general purpose, for everyone: the Writings. Some of the revelation is specific and personal, like confirmations. We are told in the Writings to seek confirmations when we pray about a decision, for example. So there's not any question as to whether seeking confirmations is valid.

To me, it's more like this: God has a plan for each and every one of us. A set of achievements for us to attain, a set of bounties for us to receive. Every choice we make limits the bounties and achievements that we can attain from that point on. So we want to maximize our effectiveness at choosing the best path through time. God wants us to have the best of everything He offers to us. He wants us to choose what is best. The way to know what is best is by listening to God, and letting God guide our decisions. As we grow spiritually, acquiring more virtues, we become more capable of making the correct decision on our own. Yet we still need to pay attention to God's guidance and listen, because the stakes get higher and higher and the margin for error gets less and less.

We are in "control" over our destiny, but do not have the knowledge or wisdom to control it effectively. We need hints.

LordOfGoblins

CP you were missed and also I am jealous that you got to see Abdul'Baha..
I didnt know so many people on the forum are suffering from health issues. Maybe we should rename the forum to "injured Bahai forum" lol...
all the best to you my brother.

BlinkeyBill

I believe strongly that God guides us, it is all a matter of how spiritually aware you are. But I have had things happen in my life that have proved to me the existance of God, but I suppose these proofs were for me only. As Baha'u'llah says a miracle is only for those present, others, and we know even some present will disbelieve. The story of what guided me to the Baha'i faith listed in How I became a Baha'i on Planet Baha'i explains just a little of my experience. Keep aware my friend.

cire perdue

People who are looking for a daily sign from God must read their horoscope as well. I do NOT know where I got it, but remember reading or hearing that the more spiritual you become the more you may anitcipate through intuition. It is like you are in tune with God's will. I assume that Baha'is prayer for knowledge of God's will for us and the power to carry that out!!!!!

Pollwr

Certainly, we know that Abdul'-Bahá was the very definition of spiritual and there are many accounts of how intuative he was in a lot of different situations. I have presumed that intuition develops with spirituality but I don't recall reading it. It would be interesting if anyone had a reference.

I know I sometimes get strong intuative feelings but as they are about two thirds wrong and one third spot on they are not of any use as I can't distinguish! Maybe it is just an indication of more spiritual development needed.

Sboyce

Thanks guys and great experiences. Im looking for something, I just dont know what.

cire perdue

Now that is what I call a challenging search!

spirit

hmm how do we recognize signs from God?

We as humans are such egomaniacs...God is, the universe is....Are certain things happening as signs or guidance from God?

I believe God is whole whether we believe or not. Signs can be a form of superstition, this happened therefore that. How does that make me a better human being?

Is not what scripture teaches, the sign, or guidance of how to become a better human being, therefore, how to have a relationship with God/light vs. darkness?

Is our daily life a sign? When we meet people, that we dislike, we should see it as a mirror, what I dislike in them, I myself possess (darkness), then I can substitute a prayer in place of those negative thoughts of that person to choose light/God. That is my guidance, my sign, that I possess in each and every moment.

NOT a flower grew when I asked God for guidance therefore he must have given me a sign. Living Gods life is action, and in order to receive guidance we must take right action for our wrong relationship in life.

unique75

[QUOTE=cire perdue;25436]I was just in the hospital with TIA/stroke/seizure possibly from accidental duplicate dose of zoloft, but found leision in my right frontal cortex. I seem to be fine. I went in Sunday and got out this p.m. I missed the Forum terribly...

ON the thread about a "sign" from God. I did not know where I was and did not know until the next day. I do not remember going in the hospital and was taken by 911. I do know that while crying and praying with ptsd memories cascading, despite disorientation I could remember The Tablet of Ahmad and was saying it silently over and over. Abdul'baha appeared to me in a cream fez, abba, and underrobe against the same colored background that had a line in it like 2 surfacing meeting, like boards. The Master's eyes were hazel/blue with pink/white wrinkled skin. The exact words are gone, but He assured me I would be taken care of. He told me that fun and laughter were part of love. Though tears continued to flow I had comfort that had no limits.
I improved fairly quickly.There were many borders that vanished between this world and the spiritual world. It was an amazing sign (?).

CP, terribly sorry that you've that stroke. By now, we're hoping and Pray for your complete recovery.

As for the sign, I had many experience with it myself, but the greatest are mostly in spirit (Dreams). I had experience Physical sign too, and the greatest one I felt of it on myself was when I thought I had seisure in the late 1999. I was reading "All things made new" (given me by a cousin nearly a decade earlier), when between the line I was reading the passage of Baha'u'llah, my Heart suddenly and abnormally beat so hard and fast (a first heart abnormality experienced). I thought I had an Heart attack and will die any minute. But from the start, i only had GOD in mind, I ask "GOD help me"......, About 20-30 minutes later when everything is back into normal, I Thanks GOD for the new lease of life that I didn't die (Note; I don't have any heart related problem to this day, Thanks GOD)......, Immediately after, I also realized that the abnpormality of Heart I've experienced is nothing but like the awakening of a dead soul. The shaking of my Heart at that point is like in physical shaking when one attempt to revive a lifeless body.

Thus, the words uttered by Baha'u'llah awaken my soul, the very time I'm also converted to the faith., In Jesus saying, this is also the meaning of: " My flock knew my voice. They will come to me when they heard them" My heart indeed heard His voice...., And this is also the meaning of the Jesus flesh and blood. The Flesh is His words, blood His suffering. So, how can we eat and drink His words and blood?

I'm amazed that Church authorities today still didn't get the exact meaning of those words above. They read thicker Bible than I do. But it come simply because: "The words of GOD took many form, and It was only to the heart HE nurtures, thus understanding was given"

Brothers/Sisters, ask if of GOD. Pray and ask HIM of guidance and for HIS assistance to enable you to understand the mysteries of HIS words.

All Praises be to GOD!