LordOfGoblins

For those of you who dont know me (which is all of you )
I went through a time where I struggled and drew away from everyone including all Bahai activity. I dont want to go into detail about that, but ever since I have been fealing more up to the standard of being able to go out there, I am not finding all the Bahais being all that friendly to me. Well actually it is just a few Bahais, the youth around my ages group who I guess saw me as someone who left the community some years ago and became inactive. But really none of that was my fault. And now it seems such people are very judgemental just because I do not serve on comiteers or run study circles (yet) I cannot get back into the "inn" crowd.
Its a shame that I feel the community is someowhat like this.
I dont even know if these people just dont like me or what. Luckly my faith in God is far too strong for this to ever threaten me being a Bahai, but i feel it is unfortunate that I actually have sortof work my way up again, as if its like I got fired from a company and had to start at the bottom. Well anyway, how do i motivate myself. As I write this it occurs to me that perhaps the only way is to keep getting "out there" and pushing myself until people recognise me again, as being someone of value and not just some "innative loser".

tonyfish58

I am much the same as you LordOfGoblins - I spent a long time pioneering remote and saw very little of other Baha'is or attend any gatherings. During this time my partner withdrew from the Faith and we split up. All this led to less contact with the Baha'i community. In the end it was just easier not to

Strange people we are I say this because we have been gifted with full knowledge and appreciation of this Faith, It is a gift. We are fully aware of what we must do, but it becomes very easy to remain at home and out of the loop. Why???

This might be one of the aims of the Ruhi Books, to get us slackers back into the spirit of service

The only person & actions we have to worry about is our own, I would not worry about what others may think, it is our battle to fight not theirs.

I would think you are then feeling as I do...I so much want to get out there and shout to all mankind - Wake up.. the time promised has come is passing you all by. I mention the Faith to whom I can, but it is not enough.

I am currently contemplating initiating a Peace Park for our area. This project would require the full community support of the Baha'is and Local Council. Maybe the contemplation should be action

Maybe we should work our way back in to together

Cheers Tony

cire perdue

You happen to mention all the things that are the Baha'is' fault, but the thing I know for a fact is that it is always me who is the source of problems. An example: I called and got directions for a book store. I got in the area and it wasn't where I thought it would be, so I said, "She did not give me good directions." Then I decided to reexamine that thought, and asked myself, "Did I ask all the questions I could have to get more information?" The answer was no. So while I had first been blaming her, the fact of the matter was it was my responsibility to see that I got what I needed. I was no longer angry and had a great time at the bookstore. Did it matter whether she gave me good directions?

As long as I see others as the problem, things will not get better. However the others may be the source of the problem. Yes, I did say that. They may be the problem, however I cannot change them. I can change myself. I can change how I react toward them, I can be responsible for my feelings, and even how much someone hurts me. We can become part of the new world order or we can stay the same way and expect things to be different when we go back, but it won't be if it is us who have not changed. Even if the others have the problem, Baha'is are called on to love them anyway. That requires us to grow and change. I have had therapists, go to 12 step meetings, had a psychiatrist, and try to live a Baha'i life, but it has taken all of those things to get me to a Baha'i life. Thinking others were the problem would have just left me stuck. It has taken years, but it has been worth it.

If we become a Baha'i to get love, it will only work for a time. If we learn to do what we want, that is to be loving, then we will get love from everywhere.

cire perdue

1. To show compassion and goodwill to all mankind.

2. To render service to humanity.

3. To endeavour to guide and enlighten those in darkness.

4. To be kind to everyone, and show forth affection to every living soul.

5. To be humble in your attitude towards God, to be constant in prayer to Him, so as to grow daily nearer to God.

6. To be so faithful and sincere in all your actions that every member may be known as embodying the qualities of honesty, love, faith, kindness, generosity, and courage. To be detached from all that is not God, attracted by the Heavenly Breath--a divine soul; so that the world may know that a Bahá'í is a perfect being.

Everything that is listed here are states of action. There is nothing listed that says that Baha'is have a responsibility to make another person feel loved and accepted, but that is a good thing, because the only person who can make himself feel love and accepted is himself. I guess people do act funny around someone who does not want to participate in things.

I did not want to participate in things either, but it was because I would have been a sore trial for the other Baha'is. I think that has changed, but I thought I knew how things should be run. I thought I had all the right ideas, and I got mad if things did not go my way, and I believed it was their fault. Until I focused on myself my life did not get better.

Pollwr

Dear LordofGoblins

You are blessed with a firm faith. It is excellent that the actions of other members of your community cannot shake that.

As well as not knowing you, I don't know the members of your community but I would like to reflect on what has happened when members of my community have become inactive for a period of time, because they needed to for a variety of personal reasons.

In some cases community members have been very proactive and tried to encourage and invite them to be more active. This reaching out has not often been welcome and has sometimes been viewed as interfering and pressuring by the inactive member of the community and or others.

In some cases people have been left to their own devices for some time but then active members have sometimes voiced feelings of guilt that they really should do more to help their fellow Bahá'ís and encourage them to join in.

Sometimes, in reflection, people who have become active after a period of inactivity have decribed feeling overwhelmed and pressured by the over enthusiastic welcome back when they returned, especially if they had a problem with an individual who was a bit insensitive.

I supose what I am saying is that maybe you are being given space and possibly members of your community are feeling awkward and worried that they may upset you too, especially if they don't understand why you spent time being inactive - you don't know if they have speculated that they may be the problem.

I hope things all go well for you because it is great to have a community you enjoy being part of and working with.

LordOfGoblins

CP

I am foccused on myself. That is the point. Why do you think I entitled it "how can I motivate myself".
If you think My post was out to blame the Bahais then you are mistaken and I should not have written it...

And to be honest. Nothing that I went through was my fault. It was all circumstantial and mostly out of my control. People can get sick totally out of their control, that is completely possible, we are only human beings afterall.
Frankly the way you frame things is rather-selfblaming and just as bad as Blaming of others. Self blame leads to self-hatred being overly critical which is worse for depression.

tonyfish58

Abdul'baha should be our inspiration I would think. Baha'u'llah has gifted Him to us as a perfect example and how to react in all circumstances.

I thought about this last night, as motivation is a funny thing. My ex partner was a Manic Depressant and I witnessed first hand the Highs and Lows of Motivation.

Also on a personal basis, you can look around at the piles of jobs to do and without motivation let them all be. One day you look at them get the motivation complete the tasks and end up with a sense of satisfaction.

Reading the writings & prayer may be a help, 1am (28th) this coming night we have the Ascention of Abdu'l'baha, this may be a good time to tap into the Master and ask for some assistance in Motivation.

Best of luck with it all

Cheers Tony

cire perdue

William James in THE VARIETIES OF RELIGIOUS EXPERIENCES states that man may do things by spiritual means which he is unable to do by volitional or moral means. One can only take resposibility for himself. We are powerless over others and events. The only one we have power over is ourselves. Then sometimes we must make extraordinary efforts to improve ourselves and to work on the acceptance of events beyond our control and find a spiritual answer. Blame is not something Baha'is focus on, even self blame. We do focus on growth and one starts from wherever one starts.........

aidan

Do you not accept CP that someties in an equation,otherrs may me wong and theindividual is actually in th right Jay

cire perdue

I'm still responsible for my reaction and how I feel and my happiness. If others are wrong that is jutification for ___________? Other people are wrong all the time. Being right means very, very little. Being right can be the lonliest place in the world. So if other people are terrible, I go off my by myself? No one wins. The only person I can change is me, and if everyone else is terrible then I guess I better learn to be tolerant, and that will probably bring about change in others.

LordOfGoblins

Thankyou.
What I am now coming to see is that I want to be exactly the opposite of what you described in your partner. IN other words a complete steadiness that means I am not overly energized and motivated one day and then despondant the next. To achieve our goals we need consistancy and steadiness. Nothing short of a miricle in this life will allow us to achieve great things in a short period of time. that is why it is important to learn to become emotionally strong enough that the lows of our life can no longer affect us.
cheers

LordOfGoblins

Thanks. I did not mean that my communities actions are shaking my faith. It was more the youth who I used to know before I became innactive..
Thanks for those insights.

LordOfGoblins

The faith is a gift and the ruhi sequences are excellent and we Bahais should be thanking God for sending it to us.
The Ruhi sequence does help me to get motivated but it has not been quiet enough to completely push me to get back out there, if you know what I mean. There are a number of issues that I dont think I should go into because frankly it is too personal for a Bahai forum and I dont want to sound ego-driven. This is not all about me. However for the person who is living their life, it seems that their life really is all about them. We are told as Bahais to have an eternal focus and not be self-driven, but to what degree is it realistic to have an outward focus, when we are the ones who live day to day suffering and needing of want and human requirements. Noone else is living our life for us, it is just our own self inside our own bodies. I dont know. We can live supporting and being generous, it seems that is the best we can do, as I undestand things, thus far.
The alternative is to be called on to give up your life for the faith as a martyr did in the 19th century, however that requirement is no longer upon us. We now have to juggle service with work, literally selfish with unselfish activities, and jugle our own challanges with helping others meet their challanges. It is an awful lot that seems expected of us, and it may have been in part due to these sentiments that caused me to also just throw it all in and do what I love doing, which is play computer games instead of worrying myself with real life issues which are all too much to bear.
That is why I say "how can I motivate myself"... It is a statement laden with a great story and issues behind it... Ah jeez, I writen too much.

LordOfGoblins

ANd this leads me to my next question for any Bahai who feels enlightened enough to try and answer it.
What proportion of time should be spent on the computer doing things for example on this forum rather then being "out-there" and serving by doing ruhi books etc. Would a very refined Bahai who is very advanced in their growth spend time always on the computer where it has a stigma of being a means to escape the real world???
Even though Abdul'Baha is from another generation, I cant really picture him always being on the computer rather than being out there really "amongst the people" to serve them face to face.
thankyou for any inputs.

Pollwr

Wow - I think that is an impossible question to answer because the situation each of us has in our lives, the opportunities for service and our individual talents and skills are so diverse. The internet is a tool like any other, but it would seem that cutting oneself off from the world (if you have the capacity to get out there) does not do the inidividual much good from a mental health perspective. On the other hand for some, due to their circumstances, the internet can be the only door to the outside world.

We are advised to practise moderation in all things! How we serve and the balance we get in our lives is a personal decision.

Here are some quotations I found:

1851. The Powers Released by Bahá'u'lláh Match the Needs of the Time

"... The Powers released by Bahá'u'lláh match the needs of the times. We may therefore be utterly confident that the new throb of energy now vibrating throughout the Cause will empower it to meet the oncoming challenges of assisting, as maturity and resources allow, the development of the social and economic life of peoples, of collaborating with the forces leading towards the establishment of order in the world, of influencing the exploitation and constructive uses of modern technology, and in all these ways enhancing the prestige and progress of the Faith and uplifting the conditions of the generality of mankind."

(From the Message of the Universal House of Justice to the Bahá'ís of the World, Ridvan 1983)

(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 545)

It is natural that the friends would discuss such matters among themselves, as you and your correspondent have been doing on your Internet discussion group; how otherwise are they to deepen their understanding of the Teachings? But they should recognize that the resolution of differences of opinion on such fundamental questions is not to be found by continued discussion, but in referring to the Universal House of Justice itself, as you have done. Prolonged, unresolved, public discussion of these fundamental questions can do nothing but breed confusion and dissension.

(The Universal House of Justice, 1992 Dec 10, Issues Related to Study Compilation)

Not surprisingly, the abuse of Internet discussions on the Faith and its Teachings has had the effect of greatly distressing friends who became aware of it. That the response has included, as your letter suggests, a degree of intemperate criticism, inappropriate comment and unjust accusation is lamentable, but also not surprising, for contentiousness begets contention. You should be confident that the House of Justice will not permit a climate of intolerance to prosper in the Bahá'í community, no matter from what cause it arises. Further, the House of Justice will continue to encourage use of the greatly expanded opportunities for the discussion of Bahá'í concepts and ideals, which Internet communication so marvellously provides.

(The Universal House of Justice, 1992 Dec 10, Issues Related to Study Compilation)

Essentially, the position of the House of Justice is that the Internet offers Bahá'ís a very valuable communication tool. As with all other forms of consultation; however, such exchanges are spiritually and intellectually helpful to a believer to the extent that they take place within the context of Bahá'í principle.

(The Universal House of Justice, 1999 Nov 22, Attacks on the Faith in Internet Discussions)

cire perdue

"We are told as Bahais to have an eternal focus and not be self-driven, but to what degree is it realistic to have an outward focus, when we are the ones who live day to day suffering and needing of want and human requirements. Noone else is living our life for us, it is just our own self inside our own bodies. I dont know. We can live supporting and being generous, it seems that is the best we can do, as I undestand things, thus far.
The alternative is to be called on to give up your life for the faith as a martyr did in the 19th century, however that requirement is no longer upon us. We now have to juggle service with work, literally selfish with unselfish activities, and jugle our own challanges with helping others meet their challanges. It is an awful lot that seems expected of us, and it may have been in part due to these sentiments that caused me to also just throw it all in and do what I love doing, which is play computer games instead of worrying myself with real life issues which are all too much to bear.
That is why I say "how can I motivate myself"... "

I'm not sure I agree with having an external focus. Who is saying that and how is it said. Since God is inside of us, it would seem to me that we must start on the inside, and on ourselves before we can focus on the outside. If I know how to take care of myself, know myself, love myself, then I know what other people want and need, and it is not an intellectual knowing at all. I think it is unfair to expect me to flip a switch and suddenly be a dynamic teacher. People who are personally opposed to being able to go out and do the door to door teaching are not expected to change that, but not to oppose others doing it. To be sincere I can only do what I feel I can do, and sometimes that means only doing a little more tomorrow than I do today.

To me having an external focus would seem to set up the possibility that I neglect my family to serve the Faith, that my children could have problems because I spent no time with them. Therefore it should be a balance. If I am suffering then I must ease my own suffering, before I can help someone else. I must learn how to be happy to teach someone else what happiness is. I think it is okay to start out "faking it until you make it", but it is only a way to start, not a way of life. One starts with sincerity, builds believe, uses detachment, and then is a lover of God. It is a process.

My process included therapy, medication, counseling, school, a Dale Carnegie Course, a psychiatrist, and 12 Step Programs. If I can't communicate with you, then I consider that my problem, not yours. I still have to work on me. Intelligence to me is the ability to make myself understood to anyone.

If it were me speaking as you have then I would set a goal to read and pray twice a day and say my obligatory prayer, and 95 Allah'u'abha's. I would attend community activities and then see where I was. I would reflectively meditate on my state of being. If I can progress to some motivation I would highly, highly reccommend reading books about the early Western Believers and their interaction with the Master. I would meditate on the love and acceptance that the Master bestowed on these men and women.Those books seem to show that even in his presence it was rare that there were instant Baha'is. I would listen to RadioNUR. I would play Baha'i music. I would sing and chant my prayers. I would read LEARN WELL THIS TABLET about what that prayer meant Ahmad.

I would NOT expect me to do all this tomorrow or even within a month. I would set small goals that I could keep and celebrate when I meet those goals. I would take baby steps. Kam Kam, ruz bih ruz. Anything else is doomed, because anything less than being kind and loving to yourself is going to fail. To "Be Happy!" is a work of progression that is a process and not a destination, and it is the journey that counts.

aidan

what wonderful hopeful post

LordOfGoblins

sorry did I say "eternal" focus. I meant "external focus".
lol.
oh well.
CP although I cannot see specific things in the writings right now that support me, I am sure they are there.
We do see all the Bahais driven in an external way, at least the active ones, to serve and that sort of thing. Which is fine. However It just irritates me that they use this as a measure to judge anothers worth. That is what I percieve...

MAWillsey

When I first studied the faith I got the impression we were to live our lives normally, under guidance of new teachings, then if and people outside the faith asked why we were doing ok to ask them if they wanted to hear of the faith, now it seems we are to act like the very christians who I don,t like who are what I call soul gathers, I prefer my original understanding. I feel it is deeply wrong the way I see too many bahai act when they proacticly go after others.

cire perdue

We are definitely struggling to grow and learn, but though we are to teach now, we still should do with sincerity, and I believe we cannot do so effectively without knowing ourselves and being able to love others through this. Those who do not feel able to do this door to door teaching do not have to do so, but have been asked not to prevent others from doing so or to disparage it. However when we teach we are definitely powerless over our effects on others. It is definitely in God's Hands, not ours. Sometime I am brave enough to do so, and sometime I am not.

We were promised in ONE COMMON FAITH that there would be a sea change and that people would become more receptive. That makes it hard for me to hold to my fears and doubts, because there I will be with my old thoughts while a change has occurred and I will be hiding. It is a very difficult thing. I have already seen evidence of the change with at least 4 new Baha'is in 2 years where I live, though 2 were internet declarants last month, and possibly a 5th. This is more than the previous 10 years. Also the B 52 pilot who became a Baha'i in Guam took it upon himself to be declared a conscientious objector and will be honorably discharged. That is quite a statement of faith. A day may come when if we are hiding that we walk out into a world that is utterly unlike the one we knew. It HAS happened in the past many times.

IF to live our lives "normally" means ceasing to investigate this Faith, its Writings, our own personal understanding, and to stay exactly as we are when we come into this Faith, then I am glad I was never normal. I have been too challenged to make friends, keep a job, and maintain my own sanity to have ever had the luxury of being normal. I guess I am even grateful at times. However there has NEVER been a time when we have not been exhorted to teach in whatever way we felt able to do so even from the time of The Bab.