arthra

From the diary of Ahmad Sohrab recounting what Abdul-Baha said about a missionary while He was in Edinburgh Scotland in 1913:

Miss Ramsey

::: He spoke to us at the time about a Miss Ramsey[see note below], from Scotland who was a most zealous missionary in Acca. She was not friendly to the Cause but the Master showed her all manner of kindness because she was very faithful to her Christ. "Miss Ramsey! do you know how much I love you? Look in your heart and see how how much you hate me; to that extent I love you." the Master would tell her as she would try to turn her back upon Him. She had the Bible in her hand, and from morning till evening she would go from house to house and read it to the people. For a long time she used to come to our house and read it to the members of his Household. They did listen to her every time most attentively. Finally she thought that now I have converted them. One day she was reading, when one of the family asked her the meaning of the verse read. She could not give it. They told her this is a prophecy about the appearance of Baha-o-llah. You see, it is so plain. She got very wrath and left the house. She was very charitable.

She spent all her money in this work. She had 12 girls educated in the college in Beirut at her own account and often she gave money to the poor in Acca. For forty years she labored very faithfully and when she was 70 yrs old she said I must return now to Scotland, I have grown too old to be useful. ['Abdu'l-Bahá said:] I gave her a farewell banquet. I liked her very much. I would like to see her in Scotland. I will tell her: see, how I have come to see you.


Who was this "Miss Ramsey"?

Miss Wardlaw-Ramsay of the Church Missionary Society opened a station in 'Acca. (See 'Studies in Babi and Bahá'í History', Moojan Momen, pp75-76.)

Abdu'l-Baha in Edinburgh - Sohrab's Diary Letters

cire perdue

Did Abdul'baha see Miss Ramsey in Scotland? The link opened to the notes at the very bottom. I can't look right now!

Yeshua

I've been reading through Abdu'l-Baha in Edinburgh and I'm glad to see that Abdu'l-Baha seemed to enjoy his time here! Its my neck of the woods Its amazing for me to think that Abdu'l-Baha once walked up the very same paths I walk every day up and down the Royal Mile, past the Castle etc.

And I'm not at all surprised at Mrs Ramsay. We Scots are notoriously stubborn people

Yeshua

That is interesting Tablet latched onto the end of "Abdu'l-Baha in Edinburgh" Arthra...


Tablet to Theosophical Society

To-night we had a meeting at the House of Khorassani. Mirza Mahmoud spoke on the trip of Abdu'l-Bahá to Edinburgh. There were many Bahá'ís of different nationalities.

An interesting Tablet was sent to Mr. Graham Pole, the Editor of the Scotland Theosophy in Edinburgh, in which Abdul Baha refers to Mrs. Besant, the President of the Theosophical Society. As he has spoken before many of their societies in various cities, both in the United States and Europe, it will not be out of place to quote it herein, so that the friends may become informed of its contents:


O THOU MY BELOVED FRIEND !

"Thy letter was received from India. From its contents it became evident that thou art occupied, and art spending thy days in the company of that respected lady, Mrs. Besant. I hope thou mayst be ever happy, serene, confirmed and assisted; so that thou mayst become able to render a signal service to the respected lady, Mrs. Besant. The ideal of Mrs. Besant, I say truly is very lofty. She is working and labouring most valiantly, and her utmost hope is to render a service to the world of humanity, and to be the means of the establishment of good-fellowship and love between all the communities of the earth. At all times I am praying in her behalf, so that the Confirmations of the Kingdom may surround her, that she may sow the seed of service in pure, productive soil; and that she may gather many, many harvests; then the heavenly benediction will be obtained, the outpourings of the Holy Spirit realised, and her services, troubles and hardships crowned with eternal results. I desire this station for her.

Consider how many important women have come into this world! How many queens have lived upon this earth! How many distinguished ladies have become the presidents of Societies! But neither have their names nor any great account of their deeds been left behind! Yet Mary Magdalene, who was only a peasant woman, because she became inspired to serve the Kingdom of Christ and to scatter his seeds in productive ground - what a great crop she gathered! And through the blessing of that harvest, they are even now building churches in her name! In all the Churches the people glorify and praise her and now, after 1900 years, Abdul Baha is speaking of her lofty station! He testifies to the fact, that, in the Kingdom of Christ she served more than all the apostles. She even became the cause of the firmness and steadfastness of the Apostles, for, accordingly to the Text of the Gospels, their faith wavered after the crucifixion, but Mary Magdalene inspired them with resolution, and certainty. Consider what a service she rendered to the Kingdom of Christ! That is why, like unto a star, she is shining from the horizon of Eternity.

"Convey my most respectful greeting to the revered Lady, Mrs Besant.

"Upon thee be greeting and praise.

(Signed) "ABDUL BAHA ABBAS.''

While in America and Europe Abdul Baha often stated that the Bahais must associate with the Theosophists because they were nearer to this Cause than many other groups.


- Abdu'l-Bahá in Egypt by Mirza Ahmad Sohrab, p253


St Mary Magdalene just seems to crop up everywhere lol!

Yeshua

Followup Teachers to Edinburgh

...Since his return to London he is anxious that teachers may go to Edinburgh and yesterday the name of Miss Buckton was mentioned in the train; that is she knows how to speak with Church people, she is certainly the one to go there for awhile and try to teach and water the seeds that the Master has sown; for there were many people who have expressed their desire to join the Bahai movement. Therefore this morning when Miss Chapel[91] and Miss Buckton came in, the Master called them in and after greeting them and inquiring about their health said {to the latter[92]}, Thou must go to Scotland. The people are immensely interested. Edinburgh has great capability. There are many people who are interested.

You must go there and teach in churches, in societies, everywhere. We have scattered good seeds in that soil; now souls who can water this cultivation must go there.


"Thou must go to Scotland!" "Edinburgh has great capability"

Yeshua

Princes Street

Returning home the Master walked for nearly one hour in the nearby park and then we switched toward the Princes Street where the principal shops and depart[ment] stores are. Here also is the magnificent statue of Sir Walter Scott. Our Beloved bought several things in different stores and returned home.


I walk down Prices Street nearly every day Now those department shops will not be such a hum-drum sight to me

Yeshua

Another interesting tidbit! Abdu'l-Baha these are GREAT pilgrim notes...


Train Journey

This morning I got up very early, wrote a few letters, packed my satchel and at 8 o'clock I was ready to start.

By that time Lady Bloomfield and her two daughters arrived to meet the Master and accompany him to the station. For the next 4 days they are going to the sea shore to rest and will be back before our return on Friday. Having all our luggage ready Doctor Mousae[16], Mirza Mahmaud[17], Haji Ameen[18] and myself in a taxi cab started ahead of them about 9.10 for the station to buy the tickets and secure the seats.

The Master arrived a few minutes later and after a while all of us were in the <car>.

Mirza Lotfallah Hakim[19] was added to this party which travelled from America for Europe. At 10 o'clock the train was pulled out of the Eusten station, while the Persians, Mrs Cropper, Lady Bloomfield and other friends were shaking hands and handkerchiefs in the air. On the train I read [a] portion of Thomas Moore's[20] Utopia to Our Beloved. Later on at twelve o'clo'ck we had all lunch in the dining car, the Master had, however, his own dinner which was prepared by Sayed Assadallah.

Here in England the Railroads charges 2 shillings and half[21] for lunch and give you a great deal to eat, very wholesome food. After lunch the Master had a nap and at 4 we all had tea in His Presence.


St Thomas More (1478–1535) is of course a famous Catholic saint who was martyred for his faith under King Henry. He is also the Patron Saint of Lawyers! So important for me.

Here's a bit from his famous work Utopia (he coined the phrase "Utopia"):

"Utopus (the founder of Utopia) having understood that before his coming among them the old inhabitants had been engaged in great quarrels concerning religion, by which they were so divided among themselves, that he found it an easy thing to conquer them, since, instead of uniting their forces against him, every different party in religion fought by themselves. After he had subdued them he made a law that every man might be of what religion he pleased, and might endeavour to draw others to it by the force of argument and by amicable and modest ways, but without bitterness against those of other opinions; but that he ought to use no other force but that of persuasion, and was neither to mix with it reproaches nor violence...This law was made by Utopus, not only for preserving the public peace, which he saw suffered much by daily contentions and irreconcilable heats, but because he thought the interest of religion itself required it. He judged it not fit to determine anything rashly; and seemed to doubt whether those different forms of religion might not all come from God, who might inspire man in a different manner, and be pleased with this variety; he therefore thought it indecent and foolish for any man to threaten and terrify another to make him believe what did not appear to him to be true. And supposing that only one religion was really true, and the rest false, he imagined that the native force of truth would at last break forth and shine bright, if supported only by the strength of argument, and attended to with a gentle and unprejudiced mind; while, on the other hand, if such debates were carried on with violence and tumults, as the most wicked are always the most obstinate, so the best and most holy religion might be choked with superstition, as corn is with briars and thorns; he therefore left men wholly to their liberty, that they might be free to believe as they should see cause. For this is one of their most ancient laws, that no man ought to be punished for his religion "

arthra

I don't know..Maybe we could check another source..

but the reason I posted it was that it provides some suggestion how to relate to "Miss Ramseys"...

cire perdue

not stubborn enough apparently to dislike Abdul'baha...........thank goodness for the rest of us, or we'd have put a fence around your country........

cire perdue

I just would like to know if Abdul'baha was able to follow through as well. That would have probably been too much for Miss Ramsey. Stories in real life don't always have endings.............

meteorquake

Well i've a feeling Miss Ramsay didn't manage to catch Him in Scotland, but here's a little bit more about Miss Ramsay added to the much-revised version of Abdu'l-Baha in Edinburgh (the Bahai-Library one is an old version) :

Miss Wardlaw-Ramsay of the Church Missionary Society opened a station in 'Acca. (See 'Studies in Babi and Baha'i History', Moojan Momen, pp75-76.);

"Some years ago there lived in Acca, a Scottish missionary who was working most earnestly to spread about her the Christian religion. The results acquired, however, were negligible. Now, although this lady did not like us, I always on meeting her inquired after her health; so, one morning, as I was sitting in the bazaar with a Jewish Bahai, I greeted her as she passed by. Then I said, "Do you see my companion? He was born a Jew and had no regard for the Christ; yet today he believes in him and loves him." ["]Is this true?" the missionary exclaimed, astonished, "Then, may I be permitted to ask him a few questions?" "Certainly," I answered, "you may ask him as many questions as you wish." Whereupon the lady turned to the Jew and inquired, "Do you look upon Jesus as your Lord?" "Yes," answered the man. "And how did you come to do so?" she pursued. "Do you want scriptural proof or rational proof?" "Scriptural proof." Then, during nearly half an hour, the Jew spoke very eloquently, advancing quotation after quotation from the Old Testament to prove the validity of the claims of Jesus. Presently, he was asked for rational evidence, and this phase also he was able to treat with equal force and fluency. When the man had concluded, the missionary remained silent for a moment; then she said, "This is indeed a most wonderful thing - a miracle; yet I am not satisfied. If only you had kept him at the fountain of the Christ; but instead you have made him believe in Baha-U-Llah and all the Prophets." This missionary could not appreciate the fact that it was the words of Baha-U-LIah that had made of the Jew a follower of Jesus." (Sohrab, I Head Him Say, p115-6);

"I met a Scottish lady who ran a missionary school. She was an ardent Christian and most anxious to make converts. Thinking that I was a good prospect, she invited me to study with her, and I caught at this chance of learning the Bible and English too. I attended her school assiduously in the evenings, and while I was more interested in the language than in the Bible, I got a lot out of both. I owed this lady a great deal, and respected her love for Christianity which had impelled her to uproot herself from home and take up residence in a strange land. It was a good experience and very useful to me." (My Baha'i Pilgrimage, Sohrab, p61-2)

d

meteorquake

You can find the latest version here, which also covers Abdu'l-Baha's 1913 visit to the UK generally -

http://www.paintdrawer.co.uk/david/f...ry-uk-1913.pdf

d

Quickener

Abdu'l Baha would not meet Miss Ramsay again.She was not back in Scotland but died in Jaffa 8 days after Abdu'l Baha left Scotland and is buried at the Tabeetha school there. ( Unless there were two missionaries of this name at the school in Acca.) This information is in Burkes Peerage.
Hope that is useful.

H.

arthra

Thanks for your post Quickener and welcome!